Ninjask (Update)

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Ninjask

Yeah, you got me, Ninjask is a bad Pokemon. Still, I think its analysis is pretty terrible and I'd like to fix that. It has three sets that really should be one set with appropriate slashing and AC paragraphs, the sets have insane EV spreads that I'd never actually use if I were so inclined to use Ninjask, and it's finally bothered me enough that I'm going to fix it personally.

• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •​

[Overview]

<p>Ninjask is an oft-forgotten member of the OU tier, and this is mostly because he doesn't fit onto any off the traditional teams that are used. Instead of beating his opponents into a bloody pulp or walling half the tier, he focuses on setting another Pokemon up with Baton Pass—many times unsuccessfully. Baton Pass strategies are hit or miss, and if one's opponent is packing a phazer like Skarmory, Vaporeon, or Hippowdon, Ninjask pretty much stands no chance at all. Ninjask's wretched defenses and lackluster attacking options also really limit his usability in any role other than that of support. Furthermore, his 4x weakness to Stealth Rock limits his ability to come in and do his job at all. For these reasons, many find it a wonder that Ninjask stays put in OU at all. Ninjask is good at what it does, though, and when it does successfully set up an allied Pokemon or keep a Baton Pass chain alive, the results can be devastating for the opponent. Using him is the ultimate gamble, and you do so at your own expense; against a prepared team, you may well be playing a Pokemon down.</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Swords Dance / Protect
move 3: Substitute / Protect
move 4: X-Scissor
item: Leftovers / Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>I could tell you that this set is good, but instead I'll tell you that the only reason this set exists is because Ninjask has to have <em>at least</em> one set on-site. This set works. Sometimes. Ninjask's ability, Speed Boost, passively raises his Speed stat at the end of every turn. This means that Ninjask can focus on setting up Swords Dance boosts or Substitutes, and then conveniently pass Speed along without extra effort. Ninjask is also blisteringly fast, giving him the edge over pretty much every other Pokemon in the tier after a single boost, even if they carry a Choice Scarf. This, coupled with Ninjask's crippling vulnerability to Stealth Rock, sets Ninjask's sights to being the lead for Baton Pass teams, though at the expense of giving away the entire strategy early on.</p>

<p>Baton Pass is the reason you'd use Ninjask, so hopefully you won't deviate from that suggested move. Swords Dance is typically the second move of choice, though it's very tough to pass its boosts against an opponent who isn't a complete moron. Substitute is another stellar move, and is more realistic for both keeping Ninjask alive and getting Baton Passed to an ally. Protect can be used over either of those moves to guarantee Ninjask turns to pick up Speed boosts from his ability. It also lets you at the very least successfully pass a single Speed boost against leads that pack Taunt, such as Aerodactyl or Azelf. X-Scissor benefits from Swords Dance boosts and is Ninjask's primary attacking move for when you really need to do some damage, so it's a pretty useful move to keep around.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are tailored to help Ninjask survive a swift breeze, while 16 Speed EVs beat positive-natured base 130 Speed Pokemon like Aerodactyl. Don't bother investing more EVs into Speed, since after a single Speed Boost activation, Ninjask will outspeed max Speed Jolly Kingdra <em>in the rain</em>. The 248 HP EVs instead of 252 allow Ninjask to switch in twice with Stealth Rock down without being KOed. Leftovers is the most useful item for Ninjask because it has the capacity to give Ninjask a few more turns to live with damage from Substitute and Stealth Rock building up. Focus Sash can be used to decent effect in the lead slot to more easily succeed at passing +2 Attack and +1 Speed, though this often leaves Ninjask even more helpless later in the match.</p>

<p>In general, four things make Ninjask's life a living hell: phazing, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and being attacked. This is a good place to start for teammates, as if a teammate can cover one of those, it does alright. Good Pokemon to use alongside Ninjask are also those that appreciate easily passed Speed and attack boosts. Speed boosts tend to be easier to pass, so slower Pokemon like Metagross and Lucario will have a field day if they can be set up. Rapid Spin is a great boon to Ninjask because otherwise he only gets two serious shots at passing before dying. Starmie is the best bet for this alongside Ninjask due to decent type synergy and Starmie's offensive playstyle. Forretress and Tentacruel can be used too, but generally slow down the pace of Ninjask's team. Note that none of these Pokemon really put Attack boosts to very good use.</p>

<p>If using Ninjask on a dedicated Baton Pass team, as good of a lead as he is, one needs to remember that he has a tendency to lure things that destroy Baton Pass chains like phazing and Taunt. It may be worth it for you to hide Ninjask and lead instead with something like Gliscor or Smeargle. On these teams, you'll also of course want to pair Ninjask up with other Baton Passers like Scizor, Vaporeon, or the aforementioned Gliscor and Smeargle. Toxic Spikes tend to destroy these teams as well, so choosing a recipient immune to them like Metagross and Lucario is a wise idea. Those two Pokemon get mentioned a lot in this analysis as recipients for Baton Pass chains for good reason, afterall. If all else fails and you just can't stop things like phazing, you could always use a recipient with Suction Cups. I mean, Octillery isn't <em>that</em> bad...</p>

[Other Options]

<p>This is where obligatory set possibilities like Choice Band Ninjask are supposed to get mentioned, but all of them are really bad. About the only other option that's ever worth considering on Ninjask is the use of a pinch Berry for a one-shot boost that can also be Baton Passed off with the other boosts. This is Ninjask's only means for passing Special Attack boosts. In general, Leftovers or Focus Sash are better. If you insist on trying something crazier than just using Ninjask to begin with, the aforementioned Choice Band set with Night Slash and <em>Dig</em> can be amusing.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>As I said before, four things make Ninjask's life a living hell: phazing, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and being attacked. If anything on your team has the capacity to do any of these things, you're probably set against Ninjask. Phazing is the most effective strategy, as it completely inhibits Ninjask's ability to do its job and forces it to come back later for more Stealth Rock damage. Skarmory, Hippowdon, and Vaporeon are great choices for that. As soon as you see Ninjask, you should prioritize setting up Stealth Rock to keep it from being useful later in the match. Pretty much any Stealth Rock user fares well against Ninjask, you just need to be wary of it making a pass to something threatening as you set it up. If you can successfully Taunt Ninjask, which is pretty easy to do if he lacks Protect, you've also nullified any chances he had of being useful. Lastly, since Ninjask's defenses are so poor, if you can tag him with a serious attack from any decent OU Pokemon when he's not behind a Substitute, he'll be hurting or dead.</p>
 
[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Swords Dance / Protect
move 3: Substitute
move 4: X-Scissor
item: Leftovers
nature: Jolly
evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe

I don't understand why Protect is slashed next to Swords Dance - it should be by Substitute or X-Scissor. Passing Swords Dance should be one of Ninjask's priorities.
 
over sub: get raped by everything
over x-scissor: get raped by everything + taunt

ninjask almost never gets a chance to sd anyway unless your opponent sucks
 
comatthew6 said:
I don't understand why Protect is slashed next to Swords Dance - it should be by Substitute or X-Scissor. Passing Swords Dance should be one of Ninjask's priorities.
It's very tough to pass SD successfully, because it requires that your opponent literally gives you free turns. Protect is slashed over Swords Dance because oftentimes passing Speed to an ally is a more realistic scenario than passing a whole setup, and many times the Speed is all a team needs. The only time you'd run Protect over Substitute is if you're packing Focus Sash in the lead slot, which I've noted in AC already.
 
Yup poor old Ninjask got cursed being stuck in OU. Looking through its movepool though I think Sunny Day deserves some kind of mention though because Ninjask has good type synergy with Heatran and if Ninjask manages to get Heatran some Speed and sunny day up (there's also the possibility of it giving Heatran a flash fire boost!) then it can quite literally burn through the opponents team.
 
Good update. One set for this poor bug is all that is needed. Slashing Swords Dance as a secondary is a good idea. Even if you pass it up, you at least can give away speed boosts.

Swagger is a niche move that can be added to AC or some other section I think. I used it a long time ago, and if you're lucky, then it could work. More of a joke move, but it's there.

Also, add priority to the list of checks/counters.
 
Great update.

The only thing i see is I think Protect should be slashed with Substitute as well as Focus slash also getting slashed and not just an AC mention. Focus Sash ensures Ninjask gets at least one turn to SD against non priority leads (something Sub sets are often unable to do) and Protect allows you to get a Speed Boost similarly (and has the advantage of being able to defend you against priority moves as well) to Sub and works better with Focus Sash.
 
Alright, I've moved that stuff up to slashes from AC mentions. I agree with you that it's not bad and sometimes you really want that Focus Sash to guarantee a SD pass.
 
Thanks a lot guys! Since DPP is not the active generation, this actually only needs 2 QC checks and not 3. For that reason, I am moving this to Copyediting and I will begin work on it shortly!
 
Yes, it'll get done this week. I had totally forgotten about this until SDS reminded me of it the other day, but unfortunately running a CAP takes up a sizable portion of my Smogon time. Regardless, I'll spend the necessary time to finish this within a week's time at most.
 
lol it's about time... ~checking

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[Overview]

<p>Ninjask is an oft-forgotten member of the OU tier, and this is mostly because he doesn't fit onto any off the traditional teams that are get used. Instead of beating his opponents into a bloody pulp or walling half the tier, he instead focuses on setting another Pokemon up with Baton Pass—many times unsuccessfully. Baton Pass strategies are hit or miss, and if one's opponent is packing a phazer like Skarmory, Vaporeon, or Hippowdon, Ninjask he pretty much stands no chance at all. Ninjask's wretched defenses and lackluster attacking options also really limit his usability in anything other than the support role. Furthermore, his 4x weakness to Stealth Rock limits his ability to come in and do his job at all. For these reasons, many find it a wonder that Ninjask stays put in OU at all. Ninjask is good at what it does, though, and when it does successfully set up an allied Pokemon or keep a Baton Pass chain alive, the results can be devastating for the opponent. Using him is the ultimate gamble, and you do so at your own expense; against a prepared team, you may well be playing a Pokemon down.</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Swords Dance / Protect
move 3: Substitute / Protect
move 4: X-Scissor
item: Leftovers / Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>I could tell you that this set is good, but instead I'll tell you that the only reason this set exists is because Ninjask has to have <em>at least</em> one set on-site. This set works. Sometimes. Ninjask's ability, Speed Boost, passively raises his Speed stat at the end of every turn. This means that Ninjask can focus on setting up Swords Dance boosts or Substitutes, and then conveniently pass Speed along without extra effort. Ninjask is also blisteringly fast, giving him the edge over pretty much every other Pokemon in the tier after a single boost even if they carry a Choice Scarf. This, coupled with Ninjask's crippling vulnerability to Stealth Rock, sets Ninjask's sights to being the lead for Baton Pass teams, though at the expense of giving away the entire strategy early on.</p>

<p>Baton Pass is the reason you'd use Ninjask, so hopefully you won't deviate from that suggested move. Swords Dance is typically the second move of choice, though it's very tough to pass its boosts against an opponent who isn't a complete moron. Substitute is another stellar move, and is more realistic for both keeping Ninjask alive and getting itself Baton Passed to an ally. Protect can be used over either of those moves to guarantee Ninjask turns to pick up Speed boosts from his ability. It also lets you at the very least successfully pass a single Speed boost against leads that pack Taunt, such as Aerodactyl or Azelf. X-Scissor benefits from Swords Dance boosts and is Ninjask's primary attacking move for when you really need to do some damage, so it's a pretty useful move to keep around.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are tailored to help Ninjask survive a swift breeze, while 16 Speed EVs beat positive-natured base 130 Speed Pokemon like Aerodactyl. Don't bother investing more EVs into Speed, since after a single Speed Boost activation, Ninjask will outspeed max Speed Jolly Kingdra <em>in the rain</em>. for your information, Ninjask uses 248 HP EVs instead of 252 to give it a second third (I'm pretty sure Ninjask can only switch in twice...) switch-in on Stealth Rock without exploding painfully. Leftovers is the most useful item for Ninjask because it has the chance to give Ninjask a few more turns to live with Substitute damage and Stealth Rock damage building up. Focus Sash can be used to decent effect in the lead slot to more easily succeed at passing +2 Attack and +1 Speed, though this often leaves Ninjask even more helpless later in the match.</p>

<p>In general, four things make Ninjask's life a living hell: phazing, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and being attacked. This is a good place to start for teammates, as if a teammate can cover one of those, it does alright. Good Pokemon to use alongside Ninjask are also those that appreciate easily passed Speed and attack boosts. Speed boosts tend to be easier to pass, so slower Pokemon like Metagross and Lucario will have a field day if they can be set up. Rapid Spin is a great boon to Ninjask because otherwise he only gets two serious shots at passing before dying. Starmie is the best bet for this alongside Ninjask due to decent type synergy and Starmie's offensive playstyle. Forretress and Tentacruel can be used too, but generally slow down the pace of Ninjask's team. Note that none of these Pokemon really put Attack boosts to very good use.</p>

<p>If using Ninjask on a dedicated Baton Pass team, as good of a lead as he is, he has a tendency to lure things that destroy Baton Pass chains like phazing and Taunt. It may be worth it for you to hide Ninjask and lead instead with something like Gliscor or Smeargle. On these teams, you'll also of course want to pair Ninjask up with other Baton Passers like Scizor, Vaporeon, or the aforementioned Gliscor and Smeargle. Toxic Spikes tend to destroy these teams as well, so choosing a recipient immune to them like Metagross and Lucario is a wise idea. Those two Pokemon get mentioned a lot in this analysis as recipients for Baton Pass chains for good reason, afterall. If all else fails and you just can't stop things like phazing, you could always use a recipient with Suction Cups. I mean, Octillery isn't <em>that</em> bad...</p>

[Other Options]

<p>This is where obligatory set possibilities like Choice Band Ninjask are supposed to get mentioned, but all of them are really bad. About the only other option that's ever worth considering on Ninjask is the use of a pinch Berry for a one-shot boost that can also be Baton Passed off with the other boosts. This is Ninjask's only means for passing Special Attack boosts. In general, Leftovers or Focus Sash are better. If you insist on trying something crazier than just using Ninjask to begin with, the aforementioned Choice Band set with Night Slash and <em>Dig</em> can be amusing.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>As I said before, four things make Ninjask's life a living hell: phazing, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and being attacked. If you have the capacity to do any of these things on your team, you're probably set against Ninjask. Phazing is the most effective strategy, as it completely inhibits Ninjask's ability to do its job and forces it to come back later for more Stealth Rock damage. Skarmory, Hippowdon, and Vaporeon are great choices for that. As soon as you see Ninjask, you should prioritize setting up Stealth Rock to keep it from being useful later in the match. Pretty much any Stealth Rock user fares well against Ninjask, you just need to be wary of it making a pass to something threatening as you set it up. If you can successfully Taunt Ninjask, which is pretty easy to do if he lacks Protect, you've also nullified any chances he had of being useful. Lastly, since Ninjask's defenses are so poor, if you can tag him with a serious attack from any decent OU Pokemon when he's not behind a Substitute, he'll be hurting or dead.</p>

I was so scared to change anything for fear that I would be incorrect...

gpstamp


GP 1/2
 
Thanks for the check! I implemented everything except your changing "third" to "second". If Ninjask has an odd HP stat, which 248 HP EVs gives it, then it will survive a second switch-in to Stealth Rock with exactly 1 HP. Cheers!
 
REMOVE ADD COMMENTS

[Overview]

<p>Ninjask is an oft-forgotten member of the OU tier, and this is mostly because he doesn't fit onto any off the traditional teams that are used. Instead of beating his opponents into a bloody pulp or walling half the tier, he instead focuses on setting another Pokemon up with Baton Pass—many times unsuccessfully. Baton Pass strategies are hit or miss, and if one's opponent is packing a phazer like Skarmory, Vaporeon, or Hippowdon, Ninjask pretty much stands no chance at all. Ninjask's wretched defenses and lackluster attacking options also really limit his usability in anything other than the support role any role other than that of support. Furthermore, his 4x weakness to Stealth Rock limits his ability to come in and do his job at all. For these reasons, many find it a wonder that Ninjask stays put in OU at all. Ninjask is good at what it does, though, and when it does successfully set up an allied Pokemon or keep a Baton Pass chain alive, the results can be devastating for the opponent. Using him is the ultimate gamble, and you do so at your own expense; against a prepared team, you may well be playing a Pokemon down.</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Swords Dance / Protect
move 3: Substitute / Protect
move 4: X-Scissor
item: Leftovers / Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>I could tell you that this set is good, but instead I'll tell you that the only reason this set exists is because Ninjask has to have <em>at least</em> one set on-site. This set works. Sometimes. Ninjask's ability, Speed Boost, passively raises his Speed stat at the end of every turn. This means that Ninjask can focus on setting up Swords Dance boosts or Substitutes, and then conveniently pass Speed along without extra effort. Ninjask is also blisteringly fast, giving him the edge over pretty much every other Pokemon in the tier after a single boost,[Add Comma] even if they carry a Choice Scarf. This, coupled with Ninjask's crippling vulnerability to Stealth Rock, sets Ninjask's sights to being the lead for Baton Pass teams, though at the expense of giving away the entire strategy early on.</p>

<p>Baton Pass is the reason you'd use Ninjask, so hopefully you won't deviate from that suggested move. Swords Dance is typically the second move of choice, though it's very tough to pass its boosts against an opponent who isn't a complete moron. Substitute is another stellar move, and is more realistic for both keeping Ninjask alive and getting itself Baton Passed to an ally [Itself could refer to Ninjask there. Unless you meant it to..]. Protect can be used over either of those moves to guarantee Ninjask turns to pick up Speed boosts from his ability. It also lets you at the very least successfully pass a single Speed boost against leads that pack Taunt, such as Aerodactyl or Azelf. X-Scissor benefits from Swords Dance boosts and is Ninjask's primary attacking move for when you really need to do some damage, so it's a pretty useful move to keep around.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are tailored to help Ninjask survive a swift breeze, while 16 Speed EVs beat positive-natured base 130 Speed Pokemon like Aerodactyl. Don't bother investing more EVs into Speed, since after a single Speed Boost activation, Ninjask will outspeed max Speed Jolly Kingdra <em>in the rain</em>. For your information, Ninjask uses 248 HP EVs instead of 252 to give it a third switch-in on Stealth Rock without exploding painfully. Leftovers is the most useful item for Ninjask,[Add Comma] because as it has the chance to give Ninjask a few more turns to live with damage from Substitute damage and Stealth Rock damage building up. Focus Sash can be used to decent effect in the lead slot to more easily succeed at passing +2 Attack and +1 Speed, though this often leaves Ninjask even more helpless later in the match.</p>

<p>In general, four things make Ninjask's life a living hell: phazing, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and being attacked. This is a good place to start for teammates, as if a teammate can cover one of those, it does alright. Good Pokemon to use alongside Ninjask are also those that appreciate easily passed Speed and attack boosts. Speed boosts tend to be easier to pass, so slower Pokemon like Metagross and Lucario will have a field day if they can be set up. Rapid Spin is a great boon to Ninjask because otherwise he only gets two serious shots at passing before dying. Starmie is the best bet for this alongside Ninjask due to decent type synergy and Starmie's offensive playstyle. Forretress and Tentacruel can be used too, but generally slow down the pace of Ninjask's team. Note that none of these Pokemon really put Attack boosts to very good use.</p>

<p>If using Ninjask on a dedicated Baton Pass team, as good of a lead as he is, one should realise that he has a tendency to lure things that destroy Baton Pass chains like phazing and Taunt. It may be worth it for you to hide Ninjask and lead instead with something like Gliscor or Smeargle. On these teams, you'll also of course want to pair Ninjask up with other Baton Passers like Scizor, Vaporeon, or the aforementioned Gliscor and Smeargle. Toxic Spikes tend to destroy these teams as well, so choosing a recipient immune to them like Metagross and Lucario is a wise idea. Those two Pokemon get mentioned a lot in this analysis as recipients for Baton Pass chains for good reason, afterall. If all else fails and you just can't stop things like phazing, you could always use a recipient with Suction Cups. I mean, Octillery isn't <em>that</em> bad...</p>

[Other Options]

<p>This is where obligatory set possibilities like Choice Band Ninjask are supposed to get mentioned, but all of them are really bad. About the only other option that's ever worth considering on Ninjask is the use of a pinch Berry for a one-shot boost that can also be Baton Passed off with the other boosts. This is Ninjask's only means for passing Special Attack boosts. In general, Leftovers or Focus Sash are better. If you insist on trying something crazier than just using Ninjask to begin with, the aforementioned Choice Band set with Night Slash and <em>Dig</em> can be amusing.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>As I said before, four things make Ninjask's life a living hell: phazing, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and being attacked. If you have anything on your team has the capacity to do any of these things on your team, you're probably set against Ninjask. Phazing is the most effective strategy, as it completely inhibits Ninjask's ability to do its job and forces it to come back later for more Stealth Rock damage. Skarmory, Hippowdon, and Vaporeon are great choices for that. As soon as you see Ninjask, you should prioritize setting up Stealth Rock to keep it from being useful later in the match. Pretty much any Stealth Rock user fares well against Ninjask, you just need to be wary of it making a pass to something threatening as you set it up. If you can successfully Taunt Ninjask, which is pretty easy to do if he lacks Protect, you've also nullified any chances he had of being useful. Lastly, since Ninjask's defenses are so poor, if you can tag him with a serious attack from any decent OU Pokemon when he's not behind a Substitute, he'll be hurting or dead.</p>

Cool!

Please tell me if I corrected anything I shouldn't have. :s

Otherwise, looks to me like this is:

gpstamp


GP 2/2
 
R_D, your wording regarding the 'third' switch in doesn't make it clear whether or not you mean, at full health when SR is set up, then switching in 2 more times and counting that first time at full health for a total for switching in 3 times, or switching into SR three times. What I got from your wording was that it could switch into SR 3 times, which isn't true, as it can only switch into SR twice before dying, not including the turn where it is at full health. (It technically hasn't switched into SR on that turn, which is what confused me).
 
Then the better solution is to completely reword the sentence, which I will do now.

P.S. All good catches Shame. Implemented. Marking this as done and now pending a moderator upload (since I can't upload my own stuff).
 
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