Normal STAB

[ZhengTann]

This thread is moderated to keep discussion on track.​

Normal STAB description per NDA:

+1 BAP on attacks that match dominant arena type after 3 actions. Unable to have Thrash or Outrage disrupted by oncoming damage.

Raised by user TMan87, the issue about this is that the 3 action cooldown before it takes effect, plus the requirement to match the arena's dominant type, makes it unreliable and often forgotten or enforced. Therefore, there are users whom support changing it. Starting questions will be:

• Do you think Normal STAB requires a rework? Please state the reason behind your stance.
• With effects like Normal STAB requiring a cooldown timer, how do you propose referees and/or battlers remember/enforce it in their battles?
• Given that the arena dominant type is a relic from a previous era, do you think it should be included in standard formats in the future, or should it be relegated into custom/flavour matches?

You may propose any rework you have in mind if your answer to question 1 is "yes", but please be as precise and clear as possible in the mechanics if you want to see it slated. Feedback on other users' proposals are very much welcomed, as is any constructive arguments on why the rework isn't unnecessary. In case I gave off the wrong impression, the vote will start with the first question before Council moves on to the slated details.

I'll track discussion progress in this OP if we get to 2 pages, so fire away ^_^

 

[Frosty]

Can't we just explode it?

I am positive we can think on 205982309815012895235 different ways to boost normal typings. But they already have usually good stats and ridiculous movepool so I don't think we will accomplish much other than a pat on the back or something of the like if we try anything more complicated than "is adorable beyond belief".

I mean if you wanna have something, just extend the "can't have rampage ended" tidbit to every move that induces said rampage, but other than that it seems overly unnecessary to have anything fancier.

 

[Flamestar]

I think it does need a rework. As already stated, it is really forgotten. Why not just:
- Remove the timer
- Maybe have different arenas specify what type it will affect?

 

[Maxim]

Honestly, as much as I like normal types, I really do not like the effect as it stands. Currently Normal and Dragon have effects that directly affect BAP, which I think is an effect we want to stay away from (I guess Bug has this too but it only affects a specific subset of moves and not very reliably). Personally, I'd like to rework both of these to be less forgettable and aggravating.

 

[ZhengTann]

Discussed a day or two ago at the IRC:

Normal STAB; +5% base accuracy on moves that match the Type (Normal, Ice, Grass, etc.) of the move used in the previous action.

Normal STAB; moves that match the Type (Normal, Ice, Grass, etc.) of the move used in the previous action cost 1 less energy.

The above 2 options are based off Normal-types' expansive movepool as well as their adaptability flavour. Numbers can be tweaked, suggestions are welcomed.

I agree, these are only two out of 2*10^20 ways, quoting Frosty, to rework Normal STAB. Frosty's very own "all attacks that last 2 or 3 actions and induces Confusion status thereafter" is a third suggestion I personally like, and I see no compelling reason to shut down creativity and the chance to upend the metagame. Seriously though, the proposals in quotes above deliberately uses low numbers to avoid having too big a competitive impact.

Answering my own questions #2 and #3, I am against any mechanics with a cooldown timer of more than 1 action. Combos are ingrained into ASB since its inception, and yet referees may still not be immune to forgetting an A1 cooldown when a combo is used at the last action of the last round. Referees also have enough to keep track with active effects' durations (eg. screens, weather, Leech Seed, etc etc) and I rather not add in specific, niche mechanics to their list of things to remember to track.

That said, I do not mind arena dominant types being a thing in custom battles or even custom tournaments. We're already an algebra-styled battling community, so that mechanic is non-existent as is in standard formats.

 

[ZhengTann]

Double-posting to say 48 hours before slate comes up and we move to Voting. Since none of the proposed changes are heavily favoured, I'm going to take the leap and include all of them in slating.

 

[Elevator Music]

fwiw, I think its reasonable for the 'plain' type to not have a STAB effect.

just wanna make sure thats also an option for the vote

 

[TMan87]

Normal-types are the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none type of Pokémon, so I suggest something related to the opponent's type.
Since a BAP modifier is unwanted, how about something like "attacks that are supereffective against the opponent cost 1 less EN"?

 

[ZhengTann]

Oookay, let's just dump every option and watch how IRV resolves this. Watch how the slate blows up:

What do you think about Normal STAB? Should it be changed?
A) Yes, let's change it
B) No, let's promote awareness to enforce it instead

IF A) Majority: How should Normal STAB be changed?
A) Normal STAB; Unable to have Thrash, Petal Dance, or Outrage disrupted by oncoming damage.
B) Normal STAB; +1 BAP on attacks that match dominant arena type upon sendout. Unable to have Thrash or Outrage disrupted by oncoming damage.
C) Normal STAB; +5% base accuracy on moves that match the Type (Normal, Ice, Grass, etc.) of the move used in the previous action.
D) Normal STAB; moves that match the Type (Normal, Ice, Grass, etc.) of the move used in the previous action cost 1 less energy.
E) Normal STAB. (yes what EM suggested, and yes this could go into DAT as the gag if EM approves)
F) Normal STAB; damaging moves that are super-effective against any target cost 1 less energy.

I'm going to let this sit here for a bit (like, 24 hours) and then move it to Voting.