North Korea?

[Gamugael]

I've been thinking about North Korea lately. I've asked several people and the opinion can go from "North Korea is terrible and dangerous." to "North Korea isn't that bad and all the atrocities are just american propaganda."

Personally, I do believe that some terrible stuff happens in there, but that the US and the media is being over dramatic about the whole thing.

What are your thoughts on it all?

 

[Rugi]

Yeah theres no way to over-dramatise North Korea, when leaving the country is banned that's usually a big red flag (lol)

Just look up the many, many accounts from escapees. You can also read this https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/22/health/north-korea-defector-parasites-health/index.html to get an image of the appalling health conditions of the nation. I understand the feeling of North Korea being potentially over-exaggerated. The country is so comically dystopic and evil that it's hard to believe that it is real. Sadly the majority of evidence points to it being very real. I despise people who visit North Korea out of curiosity, their own risk aside they are directly giving money to the regime.

 

[BLINGAS]

Just look up the many, many accounts from escapees.

you fail to mention that most of the accounts from escapees are giving the interviewer what they want, otherwise they wouldn't be able to make money. its just another form of propaganda that seems more real because it "comes from the source".

 

[Mr. Miner]

"North Korea isn't that bad and all the atrocities are just american propaganda."

I’ve literally never seen anyone say this. I just assumed the general consensus was NK was terrible lol

 

[Nix_Hex]

I’ve literally never seen anyone say this. I just assumed the general consensus was NK was terrible lol

You know who does say that? The regime itself. Although the general population (meaning not the privileged few that have high ranking government jobs) has been told for decades upon decades that the US is an evil imperialist nation, they are reportedly "waking up" to the fact that they are screwed. It's hard to deny such an idea when rations are so scarce that you can't feed your loved ones. A lot of citizens have access to South Korean TV/entertainment, and people who live closer to the borders can see the lit up Chinese cities at night. They are trapped but are definitely aware that they are missing out - they probably don't realize how bad it really is in comparison to SK though. Finally, the The blind worship of the Kims isn't the same as when Jong Il and Il Sung were in power. They are still forced to visibly honor them, but I bet a majority of the society there understand that it's all wrong.

 

[BLINGAS]

Although the general population (meaning not the privileged few that have high ranking government jobs) has been told for decades upon decades that the US is an evil imperialist nation,

wheres the lie?

 

[JALMONT]

you fail to mention that most of the accounts from escapees are giving the interviewer what they want, otherwise they wouldn't be able to make money. its just another form of propaganda that seems more real because it "comes from the source".

u cant be serious

 

[Demoness]

imagine thinking that America being described as an imperialist, warmongering country is propaganda and not just an accurate description of it and what it has done for many years

 

[Cresselia~~]

North Korea is a communist regime to its own people, but it's definitely not dangerous towards other countries.
There's no way such a poor and small country be capable of making dangerous weapons.

As for starvation of the people, please realize that a lot of countries have a starving population too.
Basically Yemen, and several African countries have people starving to death too.

Escapees might tell American reporters what American reporters want to hear,
but some escapees are being interviewed by Asian media too.
If you watch the Youtube channel Asian Boss, one of the escapees said that "although everyone starved, everyone was happy and smiled. (unlike South Korea)"
But I suppose she's the one odd one.
Other escapees mainly talked about starvation on the channel.

Anyway, I really recommend Asian Boss, it's probably the most neutral channel that covers North Korean escapees.

 

[wehraboonightmare]

I've been thinking about North Korea lately. I've asked several people and the opinion can go from "North Korea is terrible and dangerous." to "North Korea isn't that bad and all the atrocities are just american propaganda."

Personally, I do believe that some terrible stuff happens in there, but that the US and the media is being over dramatic about the whole thing.

What are your thoughts on it all?

What specifically do you think is exaggerated? I need more information to answer your question.

It's not really a matter of believing. A direct quote from the United Nations Human Rights Council:

"In many instances, the violations of human rights found by the commission constitute crimes against humanity. These are not mere excesses of the State; they are essential components of a political system that has moved far from the ideals on which it claims to be founded."

As said above it's easy to misunderstand what life is actually like under these far-left authoritarian states if you're living in a wealthy first-world Western country, but it's important to learn what's really happening so we don't fall victim to extremism ourselves. We've put a lot of effort in educating people about the dangers of far-right extremism but not to the other side.

you fail to mention that most of the accounts from escapees are giving the interviewer what they want, otherwise they wouldn't be able to make money. its just another form of propaganda that seems more real because it "comes from the source".

Awful logic. What sources are we supposed to use then? If we know the North Korean government runs and censors every publication from their country, wouldn't it make sense that we would get our information from those who've actually lived there?

wheres the lie?

imagine thinking that America being described as an imperialist, warmongering country is propaganda and not just an accurate description of it and what it has done for many years

I thought whataboutism was strictly a neo-nazi thing but I guess I was wrong. America has never even come close to the level of authoritarianism and human rights violations that North Korea frequents. To suggest otherwise is blatant disregard for reality and disrespect to those who have to suffer unfer the regime. Shame on you.

 

[TheValkyries]

The situation of North Korean citizens can both be bad and also we can lay blame at more places than just the regime like such as the US maybe kinda sorta doing a trade war on them for decades. As well as prolonging a civil war for decades a civil war in which Americans used napalm to kill 20% of the North Korean population.

Meanwhile in the land of the red scare we’re sitting here trying to point these bastard commies as the new facsists but really China is doin alright as is Vietnam and Cuba. Like if you want to moralize and hand wring go for it but it’s blatantly clear most of the ‘human rights issues’ are worried about not because of the severity of the problem but rather cuz no one likes lefties. Shit I don’t think America has spent a single year in the past decade not killing civilians in other countries but you’re not gonna start decrying western imperialism all of a sudden cuz “we’re the good guys”.

I don’t like the regime in North Korea and I’d like for it to be different but it’s hard to really have a good read on them partially because they’re so secretive but also partially because the US Govt is so damn influential in global perception and has been a mighty anti Communist/Socialist propaganda machine for more than half a century.

 

[JALMONT]

North Korea is a communist regime to its own people, but it's definitely not dangerous towards other countries.
There's no way such a poor and small country be capable of making dangerous weapons.

how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that n korea has been testing nuclear weapons/firing missiles into the pacific ocean

 

[Cresselia~~]

how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that n korea has been testing nuclear weapons/firing missiles into the pacific ocean

North Korea has already abandoned the nuclear weapons.
Has this piece of news not reached USA?

Moreover, Kim Jong Un had already made peace with South Korea.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/north-korea-south-korea-summit/559067/

All these were big news here in Asia, but I guess the US media suppressed it and blocked its spread?

EDIT:
Checked some American media about this topic.
All I can do is just sigh and shake my head.

Come on, North Korea isn't a real threat. It's a small poor country with no real power.

 

[JALMONT]

I think that while the steps made recently at the peace summit are very good first steps (and very big news in general) towards a lasting peace on the Korean peninsula, there's still plenty of reasons to be hesitant towards thinking that this will lead to a total, lasting peace. While a lot of nice things were said at the summit, the means in which denuclearization will be carried out remains to be seen. North Korea hasn't already abandoned anything - they've simply agreed to "agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities." What that means or whether or not it will actually lead to legitimate denuclearization remains to be seen, especially considering that N Korea hasn't followed through on their pledges before. For my part, I'm genuinely hopeful that N Korea will follow through on its promises and that we do see a lasting peace (whether that leads to a reunification on the peninsula or not). But I think it'll take a lot of time and effort to get there and I wouldn't blame anyone for being skeptical of N Korea's claims. that said, it definitely seems like a good start...

If North Korea really is as insignificant as you claim, why are China and Japan paying any attention to the issue of N Korean denuclearization? The respective leaders of China and Japan certainly seem to think N Korea is important enough to discuss with each other.. Plenty of world leaders seem to care about N Korea. Why is anyone paying attention to them if they are such a non-issue as you state?

 

[Cresselia~~]

I think that while the steps made recently at the peace summit are very good first steps (and very big news in general) towards a lasting peace on the Korean peninsula, there's still plenty of reasons to be hesitant towards thinking that this will lead to a total, lasting peace. While a lot of nice things were said at the summit, the means in which denuclearization will be carried out remains to be seen. North Korea hasn't already abandoned anything - they've simply agreed to "agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities." What that means or whether or not it will actually lead to legitimate denuclearization remains to be seen, especially considering that N Korea hasn't followed through on their pledges before. For my part, I'm genuinely hopeful that N Korea will follow through on its promises and that we do see a lasting peace (whether that leads to a reunification on the peninsula or not). But I think it'll take a lot of time and effort to get there and I wouldn't blame anyone for being skeptical of N Korea's claims. that said, it definitely seems like a good start...

If North Korea really is as insignificant as you claim, why are China and Japan paying any attention to the issue of N Korean denuclearization? The respective leaders of China and Japan certainly seem to think N Korea is important enough to discuss with each other.. Plenty of world leaders seem to care about N Korea. Why is anyone paying attention to them if they are such a non-issue as you state?

You probably won't believe in any of these, because these views are so different from what the US media reports..
but...

Current Japan is basically USA's pet and cares about NK because USA told them to do so.
China is politically allied with NK and keeps feeding NK because it's important for China's geographical location.
In reality, NK relies on China for many things, and China only keeps NK as a pet due to geographical advantage.

The reason USA cares so much about NK is because its ultimate goal is to have war with China, and is only using NK as an excuse.
War with China isn't easy for USA, so USA is messing with China's pet-- which is NK.

 

[zapzap29]

North Korea absolutely is as terrible as it's been depicted in the media. Starvation is rampant. In some years families literally killed and ate members of their family to survive. The country is run as a cult of personality with Kim Jong Un's family revered as gods. Speaking out against the regime is death for 3 generations. They will kill or send the person to a work camp, as well as their family up to their grandparents and children. Unless you are wealthy and have power, there is no way for you to leave the country legally. Information about the outside world is strictly controlled and censored. Virtually no access to the internet, radio, or international television. The only way to get external media is through Chinese smugglers that bring in DVDs of outside content.

Think about it this way, if North Korea wasn't as bad as it's made about to be, why would people risk certain death to get out? Escapees have said that even living as basically an indentured servant doing hard manual labor in South Korea or China is preferable to life in North Korea.

 

[JALMONT]

You probably won't believe in any of these, because these views are so different from what the US media reports..
but...

Current Japan is basically USA's pet and cares about NK because USA told them to do so.
China is politically allied with NK and keeps feeding NK because it's important for China's geographical location.
In reality, NK relies on China for many things, and China only keeps NK as a pet due to geographical advantage.

The reason USA cares so much about NK is because its ultimate goal is to have war with China, and is only using NK as an excuse.
War with China isn't easy for USA, so USA is messing with China's pet-- which is NK.

who is reporting this if the US media isn't. just curious. i have access to the internet so i can look up non-us sources if that helps u explain at all. i happen to be pretty open to alternative viewpoints and not just the US news sources that i guess we can't trust??? especially interested in why u think the US wants to have war with china. i must have missed that somewhere in the papers...

 

[Cresselia~~]

who is reporting this if the US media isn't. just curious. i have access to the internet so i can look up non-us sources if that helps u explain at all. i happen to be pretty open to alternative viewpoints and not just the US news sources that i guess we can't trust??? especially interested in why u think the US wants to have war with china. i must have missed that somewhere in the papers...

Do you read Chinese?

 

[JALMONT]

Do you read Chinese?

oh so its the chinese media that's saying all these things? well that's a little different then isn't it? p interesting to note though and i would imagine that's actually probably mostly right except i wouldn't say Japan as the US pet is accurate (and the US wanting war with china is definitely not their ultimate goal lol). i wonder why China seems to be more and more okay with international pressure on the n korea regime then? is it your sense that China is generally against a reunification of both koreas?

maybe from a chinese perspective then n korea is weak and insignificant but i would imagine that's because n korean weapons aren't pointed towards china. definitely from a s korean/japanese/us perspective i don't think that's the case at all. and from a humanitarian perspective the n korean regime is definitely bad as zapzap puts it (and just because people in African countries are starving doesn't mean we can't talk about N Korea either lol). i just don't know what the solution is that makes everyone happy: what is China's ideal Korean peninsula considering that they probably don't want to have to deal with a unified korea. what do the Koreas themselves want? I think in an ideal world the two koreas could and would hash out their issues with each other, but with China and the US, it's hard to see a solution that works for everyone. I'm hopeful though!

 

[BLINGAS]

Awful logic. What sources are we supposed to use then?

obviously less reason to reply to a bait post but you should really consider the people behind the sources.
Are you going to believe the US? The people who should take the most responsibility for the situation of the Korean peninsula even being like it is now. The people responsible for things like the red scare, which has left most americans unaware of what communism is outside of knowing its bad. Obviously they're not going to be the ones portraying NK properly.

If we know the North Korean government runs and censors every publication from their country, wouldn't it make sense that we would get our information from those who've actually lived there?

Because of course, "we know". I'm not sure where the knowledge comes from. Does it come from the defectors that don't really have the best track record when it comes to being 100% in their interviews as I mentioned earlier? What do you think they're really censoring out there? Is it because their headlines wouldn't match the ones you see in the west?

Of course I should also state that I don't think North Korea is some perfect country that has no issues surrounding it. But people who don't actually know any of the circumstances of the last 60+ years and then blaming all the problems on the regime itself doesn't really fit right.

 

[Cresselia~~]

oh so its the chinese media that's saying all these things? well that's a little different then isn't it? p interesting to note though and i would imagine that's actually probably mostly right except i wouldn't say Japan as the US pet is accurate (and the US wanting war with china is definitely not their ultimate goal lol). i wonder why China seems to be more and more okay with international pressure on the n korea regime then? is it your sense that China is generally against a reunification of both koreas?

maybe from a chinese perspective then n korea is weak and insignificant but i would imagine that's because n korean weapons aren't pointed towards china. definitely from a s korean/japanese/us perspective i don't think that's the case at all. and from a humanitarian perspective the n korean regime is definitely bad as zapzap puts it (and just because people in African countries are starving doesn't mean we can't talk about N Korea either lol). i just don't know what the solution is that makes everyone happy: what is China's ideal Korean peninsula considering that they probably don't want to have to deal with a unified korea. what do the Koreas themselves want? I think in an ideal world the two koreas could and would hash out their issues with each other, but with China and the US, it's hard to see a solution that works for everyone. I'm hopeful though!

Chinese tv, mainly. I don't really have links because tv channels don't put everything on their websites.

I think China probably wants to keep NK as it is, since it provides geographical advantage.
South Korea is not an ally of China, but is allied to USA.
If Korea reunifies, it gives China great political disadvantage.

As for Koreans themselves, according to Asian boss, there is a lot of divide between age groups.
Although older South Koreans mostly want to reunify, younger South Koreans don't want to.
Older South Koreans feel that Koreans are one people, but Younger South Koreans feel that reunification will damage the economics.