Nah, Revenge is inferior to Superpower. Revenge has decreased priority, and I don't think its power doubles on switches.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
np: NU Stage 2 - Part of Your World
- Thread starter tennisace
- Start date
- Status
Well, either move. Superpower is good for Choice Band sets, but Gurdurr has Hammer Arm as an alternative.
i know this is completely off topic, but a pokemon ive wanted to try is slowpoke, its bulkier than quagsire on both sides even after leftovers by a pretty big margin, has regenerator and TR, and can switch in on Band sawk rather reliably. it also has belly drum + regenerator for some TR shenanigans, sounds pretty interesting to use. im going to try it on a stallish team on a regeerator core!
to bad it cant hit back hard, but it still has toxic!and belly drum can pull off a sweep in theory
to bad it cant hit back hard, but it still has toxic!and belly drum can pull off a sweep in theory
Quagsire is mainly used because it can't be set up on due to Unaware.
Slowpoke is easily set up on by something like SD Absol/Samuwott and Sub CM Mespirit.
And even with Belly Drum I doubt Slowpoke can sweep. Linoone is hardly unstoppable at +6 with STAB Extremespeed...
^ in response to that, I have been tinkering around with TR slowpoke (among like every other nfe that looks remotely viable :3), and he is actually pretty impressive. He takes essentially nothing from Sawk/Emboar (bar Wild Charge, and even a CB Adamant Emboar's Wild Charge only does 51-60%, how 'bout dem apples?), and easily gets me TR up. Personally I've been running Fire Blast, just cuz Tangrowth and Jynx are both punks, and Fire Blast makes them sad, but yeah, Toxic is a solid alternative by most any means.
edit: that ninja guy. also i would have disagree on the grounds of subcm mesprit. basically it would just play out as such: Turn 1, you bring in Slowpoke on say, a Sawk CC. Turn two, the opponent switches into Mesprit as u set up TR. Turn 3 you toxic as they go for a sub. now ya got urself a crippled mesprit.
edit: that ninja guy. also i would have disagree on the grounds of subcm mesprit. basically it would just play out as such: Turn 1, you bring in Slowpoke on say, a Sawk CC. Turn two, the opponent switches into Mesprit as u set up TR. Turn 3 you toxic as they go for a sub. now ya got urself a crippled mesprit.
Molk, if you're going to use Trick Room AND Belly Drum, try giving Slowpoke Wish support from say, Audino.
Slowpoke sounds interesting. With Eviolite it has effective base defenses of 90 / 122 / 85, which are pretty good with Water / Psychic typing. Slowpoke's offenses are lower, but compare its defensive stats to Slowbro's: 95 / 110 / 80.
It seems really good, I wanna try a defensive set!
Slowpoke sounds interesting. With Eviolite it has effective base defenses of 90 / 122 / 85, which are pretty good with Water / Psychic typing. Slowpoke's offenses are lower, but compare its defensive stats to Slowbro's: 95 / 110 / 80.
It seems really good, I wanna try a defensive set!
I've used slowpoke a little bit and seen it used a lot more and I have to say I find it pretty underwhelming, despite how good it is on paper. The fighting resist is nice but it comes with a dark and ghost weakness that makes me cringe. I never really liked eviolite mons much anyway though, toxic stalling while they punch you in the face is kinda meh.
Has anyone used offensive miltank? It's pretty sweet, cause even though it's attack is average at best it has that nice base 100 speed, surprise value, and three superb abilities. I'm personally running scrappy ATM, but if you have a pursuit user herbivore could be pretty neat. Thick fat even has use for switching into magmortar's fire blast then outrunning it and killing it with earthquake.
Now if someone could explain how the cow has base 100 speed that would be sweet.
P.S. Good avvy N_B
Has anyone used offensive miltank? It's pretty sweet, cause even though it's attack is average at best it has that nice base 100 speed, surprise value, and three superb abilities. I'm personally running scrappy ATM, but if you have a pursuit user herbivore could be pretty neat. Thick fat even has use for switching into magmortar's fire blast then outrunning it and killing it with earthquake.
Now if someone could explain how the cow has base 100 speed that would be sweet.
P.S. Good avvy N_B
miltank is female only
No, it's calced on how fast Whitney's Miltank beats most players.
MegaKick, I find that kinda surprising. As an avid Slowbro user, I can only anticipate good things from Slowpoke. The lower offenses might be a letdown, but defensively, it should be really good. Every Pokemon has weaknesses.
I'll test tonight and post back here.
I'll test tonight and post back here.
To be quite honest the metagame is exactly the same as round one, nothing is definitively broken. We cannot suspect Gorebyss again until Round 3 so if council really wants to nominate something it will have to be something other than the mermaid-fish, I think we should suspect Absol because of how well it covers its bases but it's still stoppable. I really am not into typing long drawn out posts pointing out everything, but seriously, every mon has good checks and counters that can put a stop to them.
The only two possible suspect mons for me are Absol and Magmortar. Absol for being an absolute menace to kill. The only full stop being Gurdurr and I think Armaldo can take a +2 hit and OHKO back.
Magmortar for having two viable switch ins to the most common set. If you aren't running Camerupt or Altaria you will have trouble switching into magmortar. If you predict wrong you will lose a mon. If it wasn't stealth rock weak I would definitely want him banned.
Finally, people need to be more innovative. There are lots of unexplored parts of the meta that could work great but everybody seems to stick to the same team and that makes the meta somewhat stale
Magmortar for having two viable switch ins to the most common set. If you aren't running Camerupt or Altaria you will have trouble switching into magmortar. If you predict wrong you will lose a mon. If it wasn't stealth rock weak I would definitely want him banned.
Finally, people need to be more innovative. There are lots of unexplored parts of the meta that could work great but everybody seems to stick to the same team and that makes the meta somewhat stale
I feel that the metagame is really balanced, and we're just waiting for things to drop from the overbloated RU tier with their 60+ mons: something's gotta drop. And it will get tons of hype, let it be Crawdaunt, Sawsbuck, Charizard, Archaeops, Scyther, Sandslash, or Electivire (or all of them!) Hell, that looks like a whole FWG core might drop here!
Back to the current metagame, possibly the most 'broken' thing now is Absol. The other threat, Gorebyss was deemed not broken by an overwhelming majority, and I don't think we're even allowed to vote for this. Other three 'brokenmon' are Jynx, Absol, and Magmortar. Magmortar can be beaten by a combination of Pokemon for defensive teams (usually depends on the Hidden Power type), though I'm not exactly sure what stallish teams can do against it just switching in on something and wrecking the team if Tspikes aren't up yet. But offensive teams (majority by a large margin) have little trouble outspeeding and OHKOing Magmortar. Jynx and Absol are more 'broken' than Magmortar, but I think Jynx is 100% necessary for a healthy metagame with Gorebyss. Absol with +2 is a bitch to counter, but winning prediction games mean that the Absol user has technically outplayed you (but forcing games into 2-3 crucial predictions ain't fun). If someone had a gun pointed at my head and told me to ban something from NU, it'd have to be Absol. But it's only overwhelming with the +2, and is manageable otherwise. If you hit it while Absol SD's up, it's taking too much damage and LO will finish him up rather quickly.
edit @Raseri: I'm not sticking to the same bog standard team =P
Back to the current metagame, possibly the most 'broken' thing now is Absol. The other threat, Gorebyss was deemed not broken by an overwhelming majority, and I don't think we're even allowed to vote for this. Other three 'brokenmon' are Jynx, Absol, and Magmortar. Magmortar can be beaten by a combination of Pokemon for defensive teams (usually depends on the Hidden Power type), though I'm not exactly sure what stallish teams can do against it just switching in on something and wrecking the team if Tspikes aren't up yet. But offensive teams (majority by a large margin) have little trouble outspeeding and OHKOing Magmortar. Jynx and Absol are more 'broken' than Magmortar, but I think Jynx is 100% necessary for a healthy metagame with Gorebyss. Absol with +2 is a bitch to counter, but winning prediction games mean that the Absol user has technically outplayed you (but forcing games into 2-3 crucial predictions ain't fun). If someone had a gun pointed at my head and told me to ban something from NU, it'd have to be Absol. But it's only overwhelming with the +2, and is manageable otherwise. If you hit it while Absol SD's up, it's taking too much damage and LO will finish him up rather quickly.
edit @Raseri: I'm not sticking to the same bog standard team =P
As for slowpoke, honestly, hes probably pretty good I just dislike eviolite mons in general outside of tangela cause they rely on toxic to damage. I also think that the psychic typing is pretty shitty with only 2 decent fighting types and all the bugs that are rising in usage.
As far assuspects I definatly think magmortar should be up there - all it takes is so spin support from snowflake bro and he can decimate teams without blinking. Only specially defensive camerupt and altaria can switch in and they both take massive damage from life orb fire blast anyway.
As far assuspects I definatly think magmortar should be up there - all it takes is so spin support from snowflake bro and he can decimate teams without blinking. Only specially defensive camerupt and altaria can switch in and they both take massive damage from life orb fire blast anyway.
Mmm hey guys, school said fuck you to posting, but I'm back.
I agree with Amarillo in that Jynx, Absol and Magmortar are easily the most threatening things in the metagame. Absol is obviously less threatening to stall teams that have Tangela and Quagsire, but it's quite irksome that Absol is able to luck its way past counters via crits, in addition to having an immense amount of power and the fact that +2 Sucker Punch makes revenge killing it extremely hard. I'm not sure if it's really broken, though. Magmortar is obviously quite powerful, but you can be proactive about playing it and try and get Tspikes up, or just Toxic it and switch around, plus it finds good counters in Stunfisk and Camerupt. Jynx is probably the worst of the suspects, mainly because Lovely Kiss demands that you bring either 2 counters to Jynx, or a Rabbit's Foot, not to mention it's power is pretty absurd.
I agree with Amarillo in that Jynx, Absol and Magmortar are easily the most threatening things in the metagame. Absol is obviously less threatening to stall teams that have Tangela and Quagsire, but it's quite irksome that Absol is able to luck its way past counters via crits, in addition to having an immense amount of power and the fact that +2 Sucker Punch makes revenge killing it extremely hard. I'm not sure if it's really broken, though. Magmortar is obviously quite powerful, but you can be proactive about playing it and try and get Tspikes up, or just Toxic it and switch around, plus it finds good counters in Stunfisk and Camerupt. Jynx is probably the worst of the suspects, mainly because Lovely Kiss demands that you bring either 2 counters to Jynx, or a Rabbit's Foot, not to mention it's power is pretty absurd.
Or a Chesto/Lum berry.
Or Insomina Murkrow.
Goyebyss is just as big a threat as Jynx when it comes to centralisation. You're pretty much forced to run Jynx, Lapras, Scarf Rotom-S, strong priority, or Electric/Grass on everything. If I recall, the reason it wasn't banned was simply because the meta had twisted around it.
Banning Jynx would almost certainly lead to 'Byss being banned as a result. Personally, I've never lost to a Jynx sweep either, although Jynx can't really come in on any of my team.
I really think that more people should be running Cinccino. The set of multi-hit moves gives it great coverage, and it's an amazing Jynx check. Switch it into Substitute or Nasty Plot and Rock Blast for the KO, easy stuff. Rock Blast is a great move on Cinccino really. It covers important stuff, such as Magmortar, Altaria ect. Cinccino's Speed and power is... well, really good, yet I don't think I've seen more than one in the past few days. The one I did see swept my team lategame.
The suspects are the same:
Absol: Plays a mind games with the opponent that don't have a real defensive wall like Tangela, Quagsire or Shelgon (My sweet :P)
Magmortar: Only 2 counters makes me think. Maybe the most broken since he have immediate power and a very good coverage. His only real weakness are entry hazards, but a spin support solves the problem.
Jynx: When he(she?) founds a good setup fodder only multi-hit moves and great special walls can beat it. The scarf version is more manageble.
What do you think about Rain team ? I see that they are very threating and very few things can tank a DoubleSTAB Hydropump/Surf or an accurate Hurricane.
Absol: Plays a mind games with the opponent that don't have a real defensive wall like Tangela, Quagsire or Shelgon (My sweet :P)
Magmortar: Only 2 counters makes me think. Maybe the most broken since he have immediate power and a very good coverage. His only real weakness are entry hazards, but a spin support solves the problem.
Jynx: When he(she?) founds a good setup fodder only multi-hit moves and great special walls can beat it. The scarf version is more manageble.
What do you think about Rain team ? I see that they are very threating and very few things can tank a DoubleSTAB Hydropump/Surf or an accurate Hurricane.
i feel only absol should be suspected tbh, jynx actually, while admittedly being annoying, kinda balances out the metagame by keeping gorebyss and samurott in check (well it can only revenge samurott). magmortar is borderline for me, on one hand there are no safe switch ins, but on the other it is easily revenged.
absol just wrecks shit after a SD, and can crit to get past its checks.
also agreeing that cincinno is a top tier pokemon, its almost ridiculous how powerful it is and it has amazing coverage as well. in fact there is a confirmed PO glitch that makes multihit moves hit 5 times 50% of the time, which cincinno can easily abuse, PO banned cincinno temporarily until this glitch is fixed, cincinno is fun to use, and is a great asset to my team
absol just wrecks shit after a SD, and can crit to get past its checks.
also agreeing that cincinno is a top tier pokemon, its almost ridiculous how powerful it is and it has amazing coverage as well. in fact there is a confirmed PO glitch that makes multihit moves hit 5 times 50% of the time, which cincinno can easily abuse, PO banned cincinno temporarily until this glitch is fixed, cincinno is fun to use, and is a great asset to my team
I've been playing the same NU as everyone else, and I haven't seen a single Magmortar or Absol tonight. I think that Magmortar is kept in check by entry hazards and fast Pokemon (yeah, easily revenge killable) but Absol is a real problem. The main trouble with Absol is that it's not at all predictable. It could be running any of four sets, be it a Substitute to block your Will-O-Wisp, Choice Banded Pursuit out of nowhere, or a Choice Scarf set that obliterates your entire team with Night Slash crits. Definitely a suspect IMO.
Gurdurr is a pretty good check (like always), but it has to watch out for Superpower.
Gurdurr, actually, is pretty good itself. It checks a whole bunch of Pokemon reliably, and if you accidentally status it, nothing short of Misdreavus is going to save you. I wouldn't say it's suspect, but very few Pokemon can handle it properly. Even Modest Choice Specs Magmortar can't OHKO it with Spikes down.
Gurdurr is a pretty good check (like always), but it has to watch out for Superpower.
Gurdurr, actually, is pretty good itself. It checks a whole bunch of Pokemon reliably, and if you accidentally status it, nothing short of Misdreavus is going to save you. I wouldn't say it's suspect, but very few Pokemon can handle it properly. Even Modest Choice Specs Magmortar can't OHKO it with Spikes down.
- Status