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Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

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a fun but extremely gimmicky set I tried out on an alt was a very fun Sturdy+Shell Smash+Weakness Policy Carracosta. Though not the best thing in the world and pretty damn priority weak it is still a very fun mon to bring and has decent surprise factor though I do understand it is nothing but a gimmick I just kind of wanted to bring it up.

Carracosta @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Aqua Jet
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall

Carracosta only reaches 326 Speed on an Adamant Smell Smash set, which even Rash Raikou can outspeed (though Timid Raikou can still outspeed if you're Jolly.)

I'd say go Jolly to outspeed threats like Tornadus and Cobalion and get far greater damage off than what you can with Adamant (ironically) since you can Waterfall rather than Aqua Jet as a last ditch attempt.

Waterfall actually does 69.4 - 81.7% on Virizion and Stone Edge does 82.7 - 97.2% to Toxicroak, both of which you'd expect to wall this set lol. Toxicroak can Sucker Punch but still.
 
a fun but extremely gimmicky set I tried out on an alt was a very fun Sturdy+Shell Smash+Weakness Policy Carracosta. Though not the best thing in the world and pretty damn priority weak it is still a very fun mon to bring and has decent surprise factor though I do understand it is nothing but a gimmick I just kind of wanted to bring it up.

Carracosta @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Aqua Jet
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall

Pretty sure I ran into this set a while ago (as in days lol) on the ladder when I was working with Sub + 3 Attacks Gallade. While this is a decent set, I have to agree with Golemman on the use of Ice Beam, or at least Hydro Pump / Surf. Oh, and you want to run Jolly / Naive so you can actually beat Cobalion, which is something this set can use as setup bait as it will likely smack you with CC or even attempt to setup in your face expecting to live a hit and KO back.
 
Golemman Soooo...heard you've been using a Choice Banded Tyrantrum. Claimed it can 2HKO the entire meta with dat Head Smash. If only there was something stronger than it, and has more HP, and pretty much the poster boy of Head Smash itself. I wonder who it could be...?
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If CB Tyrantrum is working out for you, good for you. That said, it's probably in your best interest to try out Rampardos while you're at it. It outspeeds nearly everything Tyrantrum wants to bash its head into (up to ~Cresselia and Gligar), and Rampardos's Head Smashes can wreck even more face, having over a 50% chance to 2HKO SpD Registeel after Stealth Rock, while Earthquake can nearly 2HKO Steelix and Rhydon, likely amounting to a 2HKO after Spikes. With Mold Breaker Earthquake for Rhyperior and Zen Headbutt for Hitmontop, Rampardos basically covers nearly all the bases Tyrantrum misses out on while performing the latter's general role better. Keep in mind this is with just Head Smash, Earthquake, and Zen Headbutt alone, with the 4th moveslot free! None of that Ice Fang bullshit. The 4th slot could easily be fitted with an auxiliary move for Rampardos to KO stuff without breaking its skull all the time, like Fire Punch, Rock Slide, or even Pursuit. If you really hate Gligar, there is always Ice Beam, with Sheer Force if you want (but Mold Breaker is kind of better :/), Fire Blast for Tangrowths, and Surf to drown stray Rhydons.
^ So yeah, this thing 2HKOes the entire meta, though it has very similiar issues with Exploud. Until Rock Head is released, Tyrantrum should really just stick to Dragon Dancing.
 
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Weakness Policies are quite famous nowadays, and make unseen pokes in gen 5 become quite dangerous. One of them is Relicanth. I know he's in NU, but Weakness Policy is a serious advantage for him, and maybe this set wil make him go RU :

Relicanth @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

Invented by one of my friends, with this set Relicanth becomes a beast.
 
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Weakness Policies are quite famous nowadays, and make unseen pokes in gen 5 become quite dangerous. One of them is Relicanth. I know he's in NU, but Weakness Policy is a serious advantage for him, and maybe this set wil make him go RU :

Relicanth @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Head Smash
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

Invented by one of my friends, with this set Relicanth becomes a beast.

The problem is that it doesnt have enough bulk to live a SE special hit. I can live a weak unstab physical hit. Carracosta outclassed it, because it has sturdy, better attack and priority it also gets +4 instead of +2. You also get outsped by scarf base 87's. You should probably run double edge over waterfall/eq it gets muc better neutral coverage.

Itll be nice in pu/nu but it is outclassed by carracosta or even omaster
 
Holy shit, why is Druddigon not the only (usable) Dragon in this tier wtf.

Joking aside, real happy RU is up for this gen. Too bad it's right before my exams, but oh well.
Inb4 broken bugs Venomoth and Yanmega re-emerge a la BW RU round 0.

Wait, Cressy is in this tier too. If not for Entei breaking free from RU, it WOULD be round 0 all over again.
Please ban the fat pink duck asap this time around pls
 
Golemman Soooo...heard you've been using a Choice Banded Tyrantrum. Claimed it can 2HKO the entire meta with dat Head Smash. If only there was something stronger than it, and has more HP, and pretty much the poster boy of Head Smash itself. I wonder who it could be...?
412.png
If CB Tyrantrum is working out for you, good for you. That said, it's probably in your best interest to try out Rampardos while you're at it. It outspeeds nearly everything Tyrantrum wants to bash its head into (up to ~Cresselia and Gligar), and Rampardos's Head Smashes can wreck even more face, having over a 50% chance to 2HKO SpD Registeel after Stealth Rock, while Earthquake can nearly 2HKO Steelix and Rhydon, likely amounting to a 2HKO after Spikes. With Mold Breaker Earthquake for Rhyperior and Zen Headbutt for Hitmontop, Rampardos basically covers nearly all the bases Tyrantrum misses out on while performing the latter's general role better. Keep in mind this is with just Head Smash, Earthquake, and Zen Headbutt alone, with the 4th moveslot free! None of that Ice Fang bullshit. The 4th slot could easily be fitted with an auxiliary move for Rampardos to KO stuff without breaking its skull all the time, like Fire Punch, Rock Slide, or even Pursuit. If you really hate Gligar, there is always Ice Beam, with Sheer Force if you want (but Mold Breaker is kind of better :/), Fire Blast for Tangrowths, and Surf to drown stray Rhydons.
^ So yeah, this thing 2HKOes the entire meta, though it has very similiar issues with Exploud. Until Rock Head is released, Tyrantrum should really just stick to Dragon Dancing.
Thanks for bringing this guy up, totally forgot he existed despite my usage of him gen 5 RU lol. Well, I guess the only way to do this is to straight up compare/contrast. (I have a feeling that it will end up being really long so I'm gonna put one of those hide thingies.)
Stats
Tyrantrum...HP 82, Atk 121, Def 119, SpA 69, SpD 59, Spe 71, BST 521
Rampardos..HP 97, Atk 165, Def 60 , SpA 65, SpD 50, Spe 58, BST 495
Ok, so let's see. Rampardos obviously has a huge advantage here with the attack stat being 44 higher :O Tyrantrum does have him on speed, being crucial at times. Both with a scarf, Tyrantrum outspeeds up to max 130's and Rampy up to max 110's. There are a few mons falling between there like Sceptile, scarf emboar, raikou, dugtrio, cincinno, scarf Pangoro/exploud/clawitzer. Tyrantrum also better physical bulk, Rampardos slightly better SpD.
Basically, Rampardos is stronger and higher spD, Tyrantrum is faster and higher def.

Typing
Tyrantrum's dragon typing grants him another STAB (nearly useless though), and neutrality to water and grass. He gets a resistance to electric and 4x to fire, yet weakness to fairy, ice, and dragon.

Ability and Movepool
Rampardos's Mold breaker allows him to EQ levitaters, notably bronzong and Eelektross. Um, also his attacks go through solid rock/filter ...and I think that's all. Sheer force boosts his Rock slide, zen Headbutt, punches/beams, and crunch.

Tyrantrum's Strong Jaw gives him some stronger coverage moves, notably Ice fang, fire fang, and crunch (also poison fang, and thunder fang). When if Rock Head is released, it will be a huge advantage.

Both have good enough coverage, possessing powerful moves of what they need. Rampardos has strong Rock STAB, ground, psychic, ice, dark, fire coverage.
Tyrantrum has strong Rock STAB, ground,, ice, fire, dark (these three stronger than Rampy's), dragon STAB, and decent poison/steel coverage for fairies.

Conclusion
I would say that if you are looking for sheer destructive power to suicide wallbreak (as I was originally thinking with Tyrantrum) then choose Rampardos, because of his higher attack stat and higher HP. If you are looking for a faster, slightly more defensive hard-hitter with a variety of coverage, choose Tyrantrum.

How's this? Thoughts?
 
so i just wanted to post a note on hariyama. that thing is actually pretty decent in this meta. still don't have a certified best set for him but he's been putting in some work for me recently.

with assault vest and hp/atk/sdef investment this dude can soak up a lot of stuff and hammer it back hard. not the first poke in the tier to make this claim but his move pool has some useful stuff.

it gets knock off, priority (sadly no stab or sp) in bullet punch and fake out, cc to punish stuff hard. you can even run heavy slam which will hit pretty much any fairy in the tier for 120 bp, demolishing weakened ones that come in looking to absorb a cc or ko (don't have the calcs to back this up right now, but I know weight wise heavy slam will hit max bp on any ru fairy).

with guts you can absorb wisps/toxic/twave (if you want to risk hax, since he's already slow) then really start hurting things. on the other hand, thick fat is viable if you have something else on hand to absorb wisps. the extra 2 resists can come in pretty handy on certain teams. i was eating unboosted ice beams with it pre-kyurem ban.

now i'm not endorsing just tossing av on anything and everything. with his natural hp bulk and big attack he makes pretty good use of it though. plus the typing (not as many psychics running around with the ko buff). still not a threat or anything but on the right team he's a useful tool.

also might be completely outclassed by gallade at most things, but if nothing else i feel like when nu rolls out he'll have a good niche there.
 
so i just wanted to post a note on hariyama. that thing is actually pretty decent in this meta. still don't have a certified best set for him but he's been putting in some work for me recently.

with assault vest and hp/atk/sdef investment this dude can soak up a lot of stuff and hammer it back hard. not the first poke in the tier to make this claim but his move pool has some useful stuff.

it gets knock off, priority (sadly no stab or sp) in bullet punch and fake out, cc to punish stuff hard. you can even run heavy slam which will hit pretty much any fairy in the tier for 120 bp, demolishing weakened ones that come in looking to absorb a cc or ko (don't have the calcs to back this up right now, but I know weight wise heavy slam will hit max bp on any ru fairy).

with guts you can absorb wisps/toxic/twave (if you want to risk hax, since he's already slow) then really start hurting things. on the other hand, thick fat is viable if you have something else on hand to absorb wisps. the extra 2 resists can come in pretty handy on certain teams. i was eating unboosted ice beams with it pre-kyurem ban.

now i'm not endorsing just tossing av on anything and everything. with his natural hp bulk and big attack he makes pretty good use of it though. plus the typing (not as many psychics running around with the ko buff). still not a threat or anything but on the right team he's a useful tool.

also might be completely outclassed by gallade at most things, but if nothing else i feel like when nu rolls out he'll have a good niche there.

AV Haryama sure sounds interesting, I'll give him a go sometimes. However I'm not sure about running CC on an AV set. What's the point of buffing up the defense when you're lowering it anyway?
 
AV Haryama sure sounds interesting, I'll give him a go sometimes. However I'm not sure about running CC on an AV set. What's the point of buffing up the defense when you're lowering it anyway?

yeah, i've thought of that as well. i was using cc to just hammer things when a strong accurate stab is called for then switching out (since he generally moves last anyway). usually he's trying to counter frail offensive stuff that will die to a cc (hazards help) so it's not crucial as your opponent is probably going to bring in a counter after that. you could run cross chop but the accuracy is a major drawback. idk, kind of depends on how you're using him but the drops do hurt at times so if you have more success with something else be sure to share.
 
I'm starting to like Meowstic more and more, see this replay to know what I mean.

I choked vs. Roselia and let it set up all over me, and couldn't save Gligar for the defog, but Meowtic fixed it all up and opened room for a full sweep, even with 3 spikes + SR. I'm surprised by how well it's served me so far.
 
AV Haryama sure sounds interesting, I'll give him a go sometimes. However I'm not sure about running CC on an AV set. What's the point of buffing up the defense when you're lowering it anyway?
Well, Hitmontop tends to run cc too, and he's defensively invested most of the time. It is really a hardhit move, and as far as I know doesn't learn drain punch eother. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
 
Well, Hitmontop tends to run cc too, and he's defensively invested most of the time. It is really a hardhit move, and as far as I know doesn't learn drain punch eother. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
You're right. Hitmontop uses CC to hit the Pokemon that are already weak to fighting, and usually it doesn't plan on staying in after using it.
 
yeah, i've thought of that as well. i was using cc to just hammer things when a strong accurate stab is called for then switching out (since he generally moves last anyway). usually he's trying to counter frail offensive stuff that will die to a cc (hazards help) so it's not crucial as your opponent is probably going to bring in a counter after that. you could run cross chop but the accuracy is a major drawback. idk, kind of depends on how you're using him but the drops do hurt at times so if you have more success with something else be sure to share.

Ah yea that's the point. I use my AV mons often to sponge up hits and I usually have them longer than 2 turns on the field (Unless they know Uturn/VoltSwitch).
Also Haryama doesn't get Drain Punch which sucks, because Giga Drain/Drain Punch is like the only recovery for an AV mon, aside from wish :I
 
I was actually going to post about AV Hariyama a while ago. No idea why I didn't. He's basically the RU Conkeldurr:

Hariyama (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- DRAIN PUNCH Close Combat / Cross Chop / Superpower / Brick Break
- Bullet Punch / Earthquake / Fake Out
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
- Knock Off

AV + 252 Def gives this thing more bulk over it's terrible 60/60 base Defenses. It doesn't have the same reliable recovery as Conk since it doesn't get Drain Punch, but it still plows through things. 252 Def EV's gives Hariyama a pseudo-Eviolite along with AV. Close Combat is amazing, but it's not the most logical thing to lower your Defenses. Also, 144 base HP is so damn high that Hariyama can go without too much investment in it. Moveset is self-explanatory, really. STAB + Priority + Coverage + Knock Off = Yes.

(Also I own a Shiny Hariyama in Emerald :D)
 
I'm starting to like Meowstic more and more, see this replay to know what I mean.

I choked vs. Roselia and let it set up all over me, and couldn't save Gligar for the defog, but Meowtic fixed it all up and opened room for a full sweep, even with 3 spikes + SR. I'm surprised by how well it's served me so far.

Yeah, this is what I've noticed in my matches with Meowstic as well. Even if you choke and let your opponent get full hazards, it simply doesn't matter. If you can't OHKO Meowstic behind the proper screen, he is getting them both up to setup a sweeper, who won't be effected nearly as much by full hazards when it effectively has +2 defenses to make up for it.

Another thing I'm impressed with is Barbaracle. I am quite surprised that it can do that much to Rhyperior with a non-STAB EQ. Granted it was +2 and LO-boosted, but I would think Solid Rock would have saved Rhyperior by, like 3-5%.
 
Meowstic-M will prolly end up RU, wheras Meowstic-F will definitely be NU - perhaps even PU - as it is, simply put, bad. There is practically no good Defog users aside from Skuntank and maybe Braviary and Swanna. Most Sticky Web users are mediocre at best, and boosting with Intimidate is situational as you either need to switch on the same turn from a faster pokemon or already be in when they bring in their Intimidater. Outside of Competitive, all it has is a high Speed stat - not going to do much with those mediocre offenses. It is outclassed by Wigglytuff as a competitive pokémon anyway, who has better typing and base stats overall:

Wigglytuff @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power / Work Up / Encore
- Fire Blast / Work Up / Encore

EVs probably aren't optimal, but you get the idea. The IVs give Wigglytuff Hidden Power Ground while lowering as few IVs as possible (sadly we can't get it by lowering attack, which would be more ideal, but w/e). Dazzling Gleam and Hyper Voice are the two main moves you will be using due to STAB and Hidden Power and Fire Blast are just there for coverage. Work Up is there as it is the only move it gets to boost its Special Attack (for some reason it doesn't get Calm Mind) and it is there just in case you didn't get the boost from Competitive as Wigglytuff is rather weak unboosted (unless you're using Choice Specs which is good for immediate power, hense the slash. However Choice Specs is weaker than +1 Life Orb, so bare that in mind when deciding weather to use Life Orb + 2/3 attacks or Choice Specs). Encore is there to help Wigglytuff set up, but it must only be used alongside Work Up, but Work Up can work without it.

Out of Sticky Web's remaining (usable) users, being Shuckle, Smeargle, Leavanny, Masqueraine and Ariados and Kricketune (<-- lol no don't use it: its bad even with Sticky Web), the only users that might make a splash in this meta are probably going to be Shuckle, Smeargle and Masqueraine, although all of them have niches that they can abuse: Shuckles monsterous bulk, Masqueraine's Intimidate and Quiver-Pass, Smeargle's versatility and Ariados & Leavany's typing and access to Baton Pass (although the only things for the former to pass are Agility and Hone Claws (and maybe a random Fell Stinger boost) - Agility-passing being outclassed by Ninjask who has Speed Boost - wheras the latter can pass Swords Dance boosts at a higher speed instead of having decent defensive typing and bulk - though it hits harder than Ariados if I'm not mistaken.

Edit: It doesn't get Encore *puts on a gloomy face*
 
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Yeah, this is what I've noticed in my matches with Meowstic as well. Even if you choke and let your opponent get full hazards, it simply doesn't matter. If you can't OHKO Meowstic behind the proper screen, he is getting them both up to setup a sweeper, who won't be effected nearly as much by full hazards when it effectively has +2 defenses to make up for it.

Guess what hard counter meowstic-m... liepard ;^]

No, seriously though, I've advocated Liepard a lot, I know, but god damn for good reasons. It's really good in the current meta as a sableye substitute, being able to disrupt so many pokemon from doing what they want to.

I'd say more and post some replays, but I'm on my phone so xheck my replays in the RMT in my signature. They'll show you a thing or two (granted, the opponents were mediocre but still.) Without bragging intended, liepard is usually the one thing that changes the entire game even amongst 1500s (where I am :^) bragging :^))



Also, Milotic is prolly the best competitive mon tbh.
 
There is practically no good Defog users aside from Skuntank and maybe Braviary and Swanna.
Braviary has better things to do than Defog and Swanna is just plain bad as anything but a Rain Dance sweeper and even then it's probably outclassed. However, you're completely ignoring Gligar, Togetic and Golbat as Defog users. I find it hard to believe you've played this tier a lot, because there's actually a lotof these mons (especially Gligar) running around, dunno how you missed these.
 
Hey everyone, i just wanted to check in and bring up a pokemon that i think deserves more credit: Gourgeist

url
250px-711Gourgeist.png


Gourgeist in general has quite a bit going for it as a defensive Pokemon tbh. For starters, Supersize Gourgeist has some absolutely amazing physical bulk to work with, 85/122 physical bulk is definitely nothing to scoff at, and this bulk is what ensures Gourgeist can take the hits from the pokemon its supposed to be checking such as various fighting types and Rhyperior. On top of this raw bulk, Gourgeist's cool Grass/Ghost typing does it quite a few favors when it comes to being a defensive threat, granting it not only immunities to Normal- and Fighting-type moves (blocks rapid spin and matches up well at least some of the potential spinners too, looking at you Kabutops and Hitmons), but also resistances to common moves such as Earthquake, Thunderbolt, Volt Switch, Waterfall, and Hydro Pump, giving it plenty of opportunities to switch in and do what it does best: spread residual damage. That's right, outside of merely walling Pokemon, Gourgeist is the absolute queen of spreading around residual damage and slowly wearing down its opponents until they're in KO range for its teammates, thanks to access to both Will-O-Wisp and Leech Seed, the latter of which gives Gourgeist an extra means to stay alive.

Extra large Gourgeist isn't the only good Gourgeist size however, small Gourgeist is also a legitimate threat, using the same features that make huge Gourgeist good (55/122 isn't godlike like supergeist but its still nothing to take lightly), as well as a great for a defensive pokemon base 99 Speed stat to become an amazing subseeder, finding plenty of opportunities to switch in and get the cycle going. I personally wouldn't go for large or medium at all, but maybe that's just me.

So, what does everyone think of Gourgeist? Do you agree that it's worth using in the metagame? or do you think that it's not all that great? Have you used it? If so how did you use it, and did you use small or extra large? If you haven't tried out Gourgeist, i have two sample sets for anyone who's interested in the hide tags below..

imanalt's waifu (Gourgeist-Super) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Seed Bomb
- Leech Seed
- Protect / Shadow Sneak


imanalt's waifu (Gourgeist-Small) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spd
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Seed Bomb / Phantom Force

Speed evs here let you outspeed neutral base 80s, most notably Kabutops, you can run more if you want but i wouldnt go any slower than that
 
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Gourgeist is definitely way underused right now. With Sableye gone this along with Jellicent is basically the premier ghost type. I think it has a heavy role to play in RU and would be shocked if it's not part of RU. Definitely Protect in the last slot though and not Shadow Sneak. Shadow Sneak is really weak off an uninvested attack and the only targets you hit super effective are all really bulky and laughing it off regardless.
 
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Yeah, this is what I've noticed in my matches with Meowstic as well. Even if you choke and let your opponent get full hazards, it simply doesn't matter. If you can't OHKO Meowstic behind the proper screen, he is getting them both up to setup a sweeper, who won't be effected nearly as much by full hazards when it effectively has +2 defenses to make up for it.

Another thing I'm impressed with is Barbaracle. I am quite surprised that it can do that much to Rhyperior with a non-STAB EQ. Granted it was +2 and LO-boosted, but I would think Solid Rock would have saved Rhyperior by, like 3-5%.
Yeah, that wasn't even Adamant Barbaracle. It's insanely strong after LO with SS.
 
Am I the only one who has ever considered an AV Exeggutor? :P

(Note: this set is for fun, I am not saying this is better than the harvest set).

2s98594.gif


Exeggutor @ Assault Vest
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SAtk
Modest Nature
IVs: NaN Atk / 30 Def
- Psyshock
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

First of all, Exeggutor has an amazing Sp.Attack of base 125, which can do insane damage for anyone not prepared for it. Secondly, Exeggutor packs a decent defense sat, which can help it deal with phys. attacking mons. While its sp.def is fairly bad, assault vest helps it by boosting it to help with this like milotic's ice beam, etc etc.

Giga drain is important, as it helps Eggy recover its health back, and psyshock to help deal with special defensive mons. Sludge bomb to hit annoyances like tangrowth and shaymin, and either HP ice (for pokemon like druddigon and other dragons) or HP fire (for pokemon like abomasnow).

Recommended teammates:

A wish passer, or aromatotherapy user (Aromatisse, Alomomola)
Trick Room teammates
 
2s98594.gif


Exeggutor @ Assault Vest
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SAtk
Modest Nature
IVs: NaN Atk / 30 Def
- Psyshock
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Why would you use Harvest over Chlorophyll? Chlorophyll at least has the potential to be useful.
 
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