Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

[Holy Dom]

Damn, Toxicroak left before I could use it. It was really fun to use in UU.

Glad Shaymin is gone, but with Raikou gone Tornadus is even more broken. But I guess Rotom-Mow can suffice.

Glad Milotics bulky ass is gone too. It was too good for RU imo. Gastrodon and Jellicent can be more viable now.

 

[Holy Dom]

Damn it, Milotic and Toxicroak are gone. And damn it Hydreigon (And Magnezone) in RU. (Or should I not have to worry?)

They're BL.

 

[aVocado]

I think this Druddigon set does really well

Druddigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Hone Claws

It doesn't have any Dragon moves, but Dragon Claw doesn't get the Sheer Force boost, and doesn't give any additional coverage. Fire Punch is to nail Escavalier. Crunch is to nail Ghost, and Psychic types. Gunk Shot is really Powerful, while hitting Fairy types really hard. Hone Claws is to boost your Attack, while also making Gunk Shot more accurate.


With the new UU list, I lost all of my team, so back to the drawing board for me.

I've used a similar Druddigon set, but with a little bit of EVs taken from HP and dumped into Speed to outspeed Exegg and Tang among others, and I've got to say, it's very underwhelming.

It doesn't have enough bulk to tank a couple of strong hits, and that kinda sucks considering it's extremely low speed. It has to depend on coming into Pokemon that can't hurt for much, predict the switch into a Pokemon and use the move that would hit it super-effectively, and that's too much of a hassle really.

I know it can do a lot of damage to certain Pokemon, but it's not worth using over something else that can beat the same Pokemon. I've found that much when I used it.

 

[atomicllamas]

Running Druddigon without Dragon STAB is like running Froslass without spikes, it just shouldn't be done. A SE crunch hits with the equivalent base power of 208 factoring in sheer force, while a neutral outrage has an effective base power of 180. Crunch doesn't really add much to your coverage, and given outrages nice neutral coverage, there is little reason not to run it.

 

[EonX]

Ugh, these stats are an utter disappointment. My best team just got axed for good with Milotic and Toxicroak gone now. Croak deserves UU, but I'm really sad that Milo left. It was probably my favorite mon (along with Virizion) in the tier and I had a lot of fun using it. Also very saddened that Krookodile and Jolteon didn't drop. With Raikou moving up, we needed Jolteon to have any sort of shot at having an offensive check to Tornadus. Definitely going to have to say Tornadus needs to go, though I will play some matches before I say for sure.

The other disappointment comes in the form of getting next to nothing. Hydra is going to get quick-banned, I don't think Zone is going to survive its retest in UU (many people, including myself still see it as being broken) so we shouldn't have to worry about that at all. Was really looking forward to these stats, but I really don't have a reason to be excited for much right now. Tornadus as far as I can tell is just going to run rampant on the ladder unless there's something that checks it that I'm missing (note it better not be grounded, lest it gets destroyed by Trio) Oh well, guess I'll have to make a new team to cover for the one I just lost due to the rise of Milo and Croak (goes to make team retirement RMT lol)

Molk edit: hydreigon lol no

 

[Punchshroom]

Ugh, these stats are an utter disappointment. My best team just got axed for good with Milotic and Toxicroak gone now. Croak deserves UU, but I'm really sad that Milo left. It was probably my favorite mon (along with Virizion) in the tier and I had a lot of fun using it. Also very saddened that Krookodile and Jolteon didn't drop. With Raikou moving up, we needed Jolteon to have any sort of shot at having an offensive check to Tornadus. Definitely going to have to say Tornadus needs to go, though I will play some matches before I say for sure.

The other disappointment comes in the form of getting next to nothing. Hydra is going to get quick-banned, I don't think Zone is going to survive its retest in UU (many people, including myself still see it as being broken) so we shouldn't have to worry about that at all. Was really looking forward to these stats, but I really don't have a reason to be excited for much right now. Tornadus as far as I can tell is just going to run rampant on the ladder unless there's something that checks it that I'm missing (note it better not be grounded, lest it gets destroyed by Trio) Oh well, guess I'll have to make a new team to cover for the one I just lost due to the rise of Milo and Croak (goes to make team retirement RMT lol)

Literally the only things I can think that checks Tornadus and can escape Duggy are Eelektross and Doublade, and even then Tornadus has Heat Wave to own the latter, while Eel is manhandled by Druddigon, a powerful threat in its own right. People can suggest things like Stunfisk, Registeel, and stuff like AV Tyrantrum all they want, but as long as they are vulnerable to Duggy they won't check Torny for shit. With Hurricane, Grass Knot, Heat Wave, and U-turn, Tornadus can threaten an absurd amount of Pokemon in RU, and you can't be certain he won't just pack Knock Off or Focus Blast somewhere. Oh, did I mention he can run a Bulk Up set too? Yeah that's a thing.

Tornadus, imo, is definitely the biggest threatening force in all of RU, simply because it already tears most of RU a new asshole and needs like only a couple of teammates to cover up what's left. It is almost too easy to use Torny at this point.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

Hydra is going to get quick-banned

I'm pretty sure it would still be UU, considering it only was able to get usage for approximately a week or two and it wasn't mentioned within the drop-downs.

 

[piikaa]

One noticeable but not used threat is Banded Medicham, I've finished battles with it, I've OHKO'd Milotic, Magmortar, Raikou, etc. with a Banded HJK, not very many Pokemon enjoy switching into a High Jump Kick.

 

[TROP]

ok now that raikou is gone, is there a reason for:

to not happen

Even with Raikou this (BAN ME PLEASE) is stupidly broken and almost as obvious as Azelf. Because the only reliable check to this thing are Lanturn and Our lord and Savior Sutnfisk.
edit 6543: llamas said rotom-s too but that thing is terrible out of checking tornadus.
edit65442442: silvershadow reminded me carbink exists, but this one is even worse than rotom-s and stunfisk when it comes to being good out of checking tornadus

 

[Ranger Mike]

One noticeable but not used threat is Banded Medicham, I've finished battles with it, I've OHKO'd Milotic, Magmortar, Raikou, etc. with a Banded HJK, not very many Pokemon enjoy switching into a High Jump Kick.

Ghosts eg spiritomb eat hjks all day also aromatisse.

 

[Molk]

SO now that the new stats are up, it's time to both clear some things up and talk about some future plans :).

Hydreigon is not going to be let in RU at all, for all intents and purposes its UU and will not spend any time in the tier. This is because of the limited amount of time it had to actually be used in the tier during its retest.

Raikou, Shaymin, and Toxicroak aren't very surprising move-ups to UU imo, however i'm a bit confused on Milotic. UU players, is there any particular reason Milotic moved up ?_? or is it just the PS playerbase being dumb.

Now that we know exactly how the tier has changed, there might be another round of quicksuspects coming, 3 max just like last time. At the moment the Pokemon thats by FAR the most likely to be a quicksuspect is Tornadus, since it was already quite the monster and hard to check in the first place, and now that one of its most common/best checks has moved up to UU, there's really not much that's viable that can stand in it's way. Not to mention Tornadus+Dugtrio x.x

As for a parting thought: what does everyone think of Sceptile with these new changes? Personally i think it got a decent boost in viability this time around. It was never really *bad* per se, just a bit overshadowed, but now that one of its biggest competitors in Shaymin has moved up by usage, and one of its checks in Toxicroak has also moved up, it should definitely be able to perform better and utilize those great offensive stats as effectively as possible.

EDIT: heres a link to the 1695 RU stats, feel free to discuss! http://sim.smogon.com:8080/Stats/2014-04/rubeta-1695.0.txt

 

[Ranger Mike]

I totally agree that other grass types such as sceptile and whimsicott will love having shaymin out of the picture based on shaymin's best best sets sweeper for the former and subseed for the latter(ewwww)

 

[TROP]

We still have to remember that along with tornadus escavelier is currently manhandling the tier

I doubt we are playing the same tier.

 

[piikaa]

We still have to remember that along with tornadus escavelier is currently manhandling the tier as well (as long as you dont run moltres)

Ghosts eg spiritomb eat hjks all day also aromatisse.

Psycho Cut and Bullet Punch exist for Aromatisse, but Spiritomb is a nice check. Overall, Aromatisse is better in VGC, doesn't have much support in singles. Considering its abilities help more in Doubles, and I've only seen 1 Aromatisse in a battle.

SO now that the new stats are up, it's time to both clear some things up and talk about some future plans :).

Hydreigon is not going to be let in RU at all, for all intents and purposes its UU and will not spend any time in the tier. This is because of the limited amount of time it had to actually be used in the tier during its retest.

Raikou, Shaymin, and Toxicroak aren't very surprising move-ups to UU imo, however i'm a bit confused on Milotic. UU players, is there any particular reason Milotic moved up ?_? or is it just the PS playerbase being dumb.

Now that we know exactly how the tier has changed, there might be another round of quicksuspects coming, 3 max just like last time. At the moment the Pokemon thats by FAR the most likely to be a quicksuspect is Tornadus, since it was already quite the monster and hard to check in the first place, and now that one of its most common/best checks has moved up to UU, there's really not much that's viable that can stand in it's way. Not to mention Tornadus+Dugtrio x.x

As for a parting thought: what does everyone think of Sceptile with these new changes? Personally i think it got a decent boost in viability this time around. It was never really *bad* per se, just a bit overshadowed, but now that one of its biggest competitors in Shaymin has moved up by usage, and one of its checks in Toxicroak has also moved up, it should definitely be able to perform better and utilize those great offensive stats as effectively as possible.

Hydreigon won't be put in RU considering the lack of Weaknesses there, and for them (Aromatisse, Florges) it gets Flash Cannon, and for others (Abomasnow, Rotom-Frost), it gets Fire Blast, Flamethrower, and Flash Cannon, and other pokes can't switch well into a STAB Draco, thus deeming Hydreigon too OP for RU.

Arcticblast edit: Please don't double post.

 

[aVocado]

Psycho Cut and Bullet Punch exist for Aromatisse, but Spiritomb is a nice check. Overall, Aromatisse is better in VGC, doesn't have much support in singles. Considering its abilities help more in Doubles, and I've only seen 1 Aromatisse in a battle.

Aromatisse is a premier cleric in RU. I would say it's the RU's equivalent of Florges in UU, and Sylveon in OU. And it's actually reasonably common.

 

[TROP]

Hydreigon won't be put in RU considering the lack of Weaknesses there, and for them (Aromatisse, Florges) it gets Flash Cannon, and for others (Abomasnow, Rotom-Frost), it gets Fire Blast, Flamethrower, and Flash Cannon, and other pokes can't switch well into a STAB Draco, thus deeming Hydreigon too OP for RU.

u wot m8.
Hydreigon won't be RU because it was unbanned from UU last week meaning it didn't have enough time to get relevant usage.

Hydreigon would be instabanned anyway because it is a better Kyurem

 

[Evilfaic]

Raikou, Shaymin, and Toxicroak aren't very surprising move-ups to UU imo, however i'm a bit confused on Milotic. UU players, is there any particular reason Milotic moved up ?_? or is it just the PS playerbase being dumb.

Bulky as hell, great recovery, surprisingly powerful Hydro Pump, Competitive (although gimmicky, it can be good).
Those reasons in combination with "the PS playerbase being dumb". :)

Also we shouldn't even be discussing Hydreigon in RU. It will never happen. Hell, the thing's OP in UU.

 

[DopestDope]

I don't think Sceptile will see much use because its movepool is so atrociously shallow (on the special side at least). It consists of Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, Hidden Power, Focus Blast, and Dragon Pulse (lol). That coverage isn't very great with grass being a relatively weak offensive typing. Coupled with Sceptile's middling 105 base SpA, it won't be hitting things that hard. Even if you were to run a physical set, it is far outclassed by Virizion which has better bulk, power, and typing (also Justified).

 

[Punchshroom]

Which is why I think Sceptile's most effective use in the meta would be a mixed set. Leaf Storm, Focus Blast, and Rock Slide already hit a good majority of the tier, with the last slot going to Hidden Power Fire or Earthquake. Unlike Tangrowth, who can replicate such a set, Sceptile boasts massive Speed, which allows it to outrun almost all of RU and smack them with its powerful and diverse coverage.

 

[Kevun]

Man, this is gonna affect a lot of things:

Grass types- Now with Shaymin gone, Grass types that were previously eclipsed by Shaymin are now going to be much more common, especially to check Rhyperior now that Milotic is gone too. Tangrowth, Sceptile, Rotom-C, Gourgeist, and Virizion are some things that come to mind. Tangrowth has similar offensive stats and bulk to Shaymin, but is much slower. Its probably going to be replaced on more bulky offensive teams utilizing Shaymin. I foresee Virizion a very dangerous threat. With its Fighting typing, it can set up on a variety of threats, including but not limited to Rhyperior. Plus, now that Raikou is gone, base 108 speed is quite fantastic. Rotom-C can play both a defensive role with Will-O-Wisp, or go on the offensive with a Choice Scarf. Sceptile is still an offensive powerhouse, and can easily be a great late game cleaner once things like scarfed Braviary are gone.

Tornadus - I mean, do I need to say more? There's a pretty solid chance its going to get banned, so I'm just not gonna waste time talking about it. A shame too, since I really enjoyed using it. Btw, specially defensive Rotom-S (which is what people really should be using) is a great counter; it takes LO Hurricanes like its nothing, can burn physical variants, and OHKO it back after SR. Plus, Rotom-S is still a great pokemon, and checks a big portion of the meta, and is really underrated in my opinion. Still, Tornadus is probably going to get banned anyway. :/

252 SpA Life Orb Tornadus Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-S: 78-92 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Water-types: Now with Milotic gone, Slowking, Jellicent, and Lanturn are probably going to rise. The three are probably the only things that could replace Milotic's role as a wall. Also with Raikou gone, water types are quite a bit more viable, except Lanturn, who benefited from Raikou's presence.

Defog: With Milotic gone, and probably Tornadus soon afterwards, there is little to punish Defog users. Milotic was pretty much the only viable Competitive user, and so the only thing Defoggers have to worry about now is Braviary. With this being said, Gligar and other defoggers are probably going to rise in usage.

Rhyperior - Now, I'm a little bit mixed about this one. Rhyperior absolutely hated Shaymin, so you'd expect it to rise in usage. However, with dangerous new Grass-Types running around, like Substitute Sceptile and Swords Dance Virizion, I'm a bit unsure, as it can go either way.

So yeah, there's my two cents, for what its worth.

 

[Delibird is Amazing]

Tangrowth has similar offensive stats and bulk to Shaymin, but is much slower and AV versions have no reliable recovery outside of Giga Drain.

regenerator is what makes it a good assault vest user in the first place

 

[shadowyoshi64]

Running Druddigon without Dragon STAB is like running Froslass without spikes, it just shouldn't be done. A SE crunch hits with the equivalent base power of 208 factoring in sheer force, while a neutral outrage has an effective base power of 180. Crunch doesn't really add much to your coverage, and given outrages nice neutral coverage, there is little reason not to run it.

Oh, I totally forgot about Outrage, and after a bit more testing, even with Outrage I found it not being too useful compared to the rest of my team.

 

[Kevun]

regenerator is what makes it a good assault vest user in the first place

Yeah, I forgot about that. I edited my post like 2 seconds after I posted it XD

 

[Tribute]

Is showdown down atm?

Last couple days all i get is socket hang up

Anyway, thrilled to see Raikou gone, hopefully torn follows with a quickban.

Shaymin, I'm glad to see go but I didn't really actively want him gone.

The rest I'm indifferent too. I'd like to see roserade back but that wont happen

 

[piikaa]

Is showdown down atm?

Last couple days all i get is socket hang up

Anyway, thrilled to see Raikou gone, hopefully torn follows with a quickban

No, it's up. \o/