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Metagame NP: RU Stage -1: Message to Oglemi, Nails, and Honko (VENOMOTH STOLEN FROM US))

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Jonater said:
Going to dump a set that I enjoyed alot and is long overdue. Although it was made to check top threats like Kyurem, it still functions as a pretty decent mixed pivot.

hariyama.gif

Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 152 Atk / 252 HP / 96 Def / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
- Knock Off

The EV spread is a bit wonky, but I shall explain them to you. The 152 Attack EVs are designed so that you OHKO escavalier under Stealth Rocks. The 96 Defense EV's allow it to check Escavalier and gives it mixed bulk. The rest of the EVs are put into special defense. As you can see, The spread is specially designed to take on Escavalier, but can also take on many other fire/ice type threats. It can especially take on Emboar, but falls to a superpower.

Calcs:

This is how it fared against Kyurem:
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 109-130 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 16.4% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 147-173 (29.8 - 35.1%) -- 19% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 208-246 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Now various threats:
252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Hariyama: 195-229 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Hariyama: 144-171 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- 8.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Emboar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 109-129 (22.1 - 26.2%) -- 6.5% chance to 4HKO
112 Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Hariyama: 289-341 (58.7 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 102-120 (20.7 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 138-163 (28 - 33.1%) -- 92.2% chance to 3HKO after hail damage

Comments? Spread Changes?
Click to expand...

This is something that's been discussed before. I actually came up with a similar set:


It used to be an amazing Kyurem counter before the first wave of bans. Other options include Fake Out, other elemental Punches, EQ, and Guts. It's really saddening this thing doesn't get Drain Punch, because CC isn't ideal for an AV Poke with Def investment.

My personal spread is 252 Atk, 252 Def, 4 HP, Adamant, as Hariyama's HP is so high that investing in Defense is alright. 252 EVs in Def brings the Def stat very close to the SpDef stat with AV equipped, and max attack on Hariyama is scary.
 
DFB3636 said:
This is something that's been discussed before. I actually came up with a similar set:


It used to be an amazing Kyurem counter before the first wave of bans. Other options include Fake Out, other elemental Punches, EQ, and Guts. It's really saddening this thing doesn't get Drain Punch, because CC isn't ideal for an AV Poke with Def investment.

My personal spread is 252 Atk, 252 Def, 4 HP, Adamant, as Hariyama's HP is so high that investing in Defense is alright. 252 EVs in Def brings the Def stat very close to the SpDef stat with AV equipped, and max attack on Hariyama is scary.
Click to expand...

oh sorry i didn't see it there. Personally i dislike full out investing a defense without a hp but i guess with hariyama and its huge hp stat that's okay.

[Edit: If you use a spread of 16 HP / 240 Atk / 252 Def you can check mixed emboar w/o boosting item ex: assvest variants.]
 
Molk said:
confirming that druddigon is banned

21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 1. it hits too hard
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 2. it rapes all teams now that web exists
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 3. it fits on everything
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 4.because av only other druddigon can ohko druddigon
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 5. it has 10 million sets
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 6. adding druddigon makes your team 100x better
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 7. when it trick room it rapes offense without even trying because lol dragon
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 8. it rapes more defensive shit with a life orb set
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 9. only cresselia can stop it
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 10. it is ugly as fuck
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 11. it killed my grandma
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 12. it is the only reason pathetic mons like togetic are viable
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 13. It makes cinccino a liability
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 14. it makes bronzong a liability because it can't do what it should be doing
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 15.makes hail teams useless because fire punch ohkoes all of them
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 16. it is as strong as reshiram with physical attacks and that is uber so drudd should too
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 17. it gets rough skin and it isnt a shark
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 18. it gets glare and it isnt a snake
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 19. it is lucifer in pokemn form
21:14 socuteboss <socuteboss> 20. the bible mentions a dragon during the apocalypse and because druddigon it is ugly as fuck that dragon is drudd
21:15 socuteboss 21. it makes rain team a liability because impossible to ohko
21:15 socuteboss 22. it makes sun team a liability because impossible to ohko
21:16 socuteboss 23. blue is a terrible color fr a dragon
21:17 socuteboss 24. game freak regrets creating druddigon and that is why it should be banned
21:17 socuteboss 25. a red face means it killed a fuckton of things and that is bad for a kids game like this
21:18 socuteboss 26. it gets gunk shot meaning it eats shit
21:18 socuteboss 27. iris used it and i hate iris
21:18 socuteboss 28.its shiny is puke green
21:20 socuteboss 29.because it can run adamant it is stronger than garchomp
21:20 socuteboss 30. because of sticky web its only problem is gone
21:20 socuteboss 31. it can ohko rhyperior
21:21 socuteboss 32. it said no to panda
21:21 socuteboss 33. it has wings
21:21 socuteboss 34. the guy who made it is a plagiarist
21:21 socuteboss 35. proof
21:22 socuteboss 36. it has the cry of a dying squirrel
21:22 Molk should've been sugimori art of druddigon broken up in paint
21:22 socuteboss 37. it is not a real american mon
21:23 socuteboss 38. trashkoo said he liked druddigon once
21:23 Molk lol serious
21:23 socuteboss 39. it gets stealth rock for no reason
21:23 socuteboss 40. it crit kenny 5 times in a row
21:24 socuteboss 41. druddigon is the reason waldo is hiding
21:24 socuteboss 42. druddigon is why bigfoot is hiding
21:24 socuteboss 43. fairies only made it 100x more broken
21:25 socuteboss 44. it gets priority for no reason
21:25 socuteboss 45. it looks angry as fuck
21:26 socuteboss 46. it is a manlet
21:26 socuteboss 47. gamefaqs likes it
21:26 socuteboss 48. it breeds with meganium
21:27 socuteboss 49. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dhct8k&s=6#.U2bo1CiQ8iI
21:27 socuteboss 50. it stole its color from deoxys
21:28 socuteboss 51. it ohkoes azumarill while other dragons not named zekrom cant
21:29 socuteboss 52. it is not trained in gorilla warfare
21:29 socuteboss 53. he killed mufasa
21:29 socuteboss 54. he killed han solo
21:30 socuteboss 55. cased cant innovate the meta if druddign exists
21:30 socuteboss 56. its movepool is too big
21:30 socuteboss 57. too bulky
21:31 socuteboss 58. it is not butter
21:31 socuteboss 59. it gets superpower for no reason
21:32 socuteboss 60. it is so ugly it ohkoes xerneas with outrage
21:32 socuteboss 61. it killed muh randomizer run once
21:33 socuteboss 62. it gets hone claws
21:33 socuteboss 63. it is a gen V mon and gen V is the worst
21:33 socuteboss 64. its model is ugly as fuck
21:33 socuteboss 65. its sprite is cancer
21:34 socuteboss 66. if you use simple obscure math druddigon total is 666
21:34 socuteboss 67. it can be female
21:35 socuteboss 68. it bypasses fairies without even trying
21:35 socuteboss 69. it can breed
21:35 socuteboss 70. it is heavy
21:36 socuteboss 71. It runs through the narrow tunnels formed by Excadrill and Onix. It uses its sharp claws to catch prey.
21:36 socuteboss 72. It races through narrow caves, using its sharp claws to catch prey. The skin on its face is harder than a rock.
21:37 socuteboss 73. It warms its body by absorbing sunlight with its wings. When its body temperature falls, it can no longer move.
21:37 socuteboss 74. its body temperature never fails
21:37 socuteboss 75. it appears in icy cave for no reason
21:38 socuteboss 76. its national pokedex number total is 9
21:38 socuteboss 77. 9 is the number of times vergil killed me
21:39 socuteboss 78. its japanese name sounds like crying
21:39 socuteboss 79. it makes little kids cry when they get t drayden/iris
21:39 socuteboss 80.calir is a bully and owns one
21:39 socuteboss clair*
21:39 Molk clair doesnt look anything like mizuhime
21:39 Molk nig

21:40 socuteboss 81.it hits hard as fuck with 40 sp.a
21:40 socuteboss 60*
21:40 socuteboss 82. it gets a move named revenge
21:40 socuteboss 83. this means druddigon is actully dan
21:40 socuteboss 84. druddigon killed chris
21:40 Molk is chris imanalt
21:41 socuteboss 85. it makes lilligant a liability
21:41 socuteboss 86. druddigon is ancient maya for aids
21:41 socuteboss 87. it is not one of the original 151 pokemon
21:42 socuteboss 88. my game crashed the first time i found one
21:42 socuteboss 89. it gets pursuit to guarantee something dying
21:42 socuteboss 90. He makes every effort to win the Battle Tournament. He is blunt, but he kind of likes helping others.
21:42 socuteboss 91. it was not designed by james turner
21:43 socuteboss 92.Druddigon shares its species name with Gabite. They are both known as the Cave Pokémon.
21:43 socuteboss 93. Given Druddigon's grotesque features and the rock-like qualities stated in its Pokédex entries, it seems to be based on a gargoyle. Its natural appearance also seems to resemble a European dragon.
21:43 socuteboss 94. it killed shrek
21:43 socuteboss 95. I dont like it
21:44 socuteboss 96. I think it is ugly
21:44 socuteboss 97. It raped me
21:44 socuteboss 98. it crit a steelix to death with fire punch
21:44 socuteboss 99. energ made it his/her avatar
21:44 socuteboss 100. ur a faget

passion is still ru council
Click to expand...

also reason 101.

22:00 socuteboss it ight not be broken now because tornadus exists but it has the potential to be really broken in the future

I lost a bet
 
atomicllamas said:
I got sick of deleting stuff like Golem and Cradily from the mid level threat area
Click to expand...
;_; but, muh golem...
I really like the AV Hariyama set, so I gotta try that one out. He doesn't learn drain punch though? Come on. As for durant, he wrecked last gen RU and did some time in BL2 (I believe he returned to RU though before gen 6 for a short while). He only seems like he will be better this gen, having a fairy-removing-niche, milotic being gone (new premier bulky water is Slowking who gets X-Scissored hard), and not really getting anything negative from the gen shift
 
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awesome to see people still utilizing av hariyama after posting up a blurb on him a while back. he needs the right team around him to shine (use him to patch up holes as a pivot) but is still pretty cool. definitely not going to make a huge impact and he can be played around easily but just a cool mon in this meta (plus super likely to fall to nu where he'll be even better). nice work on that ev spread as well, still haven't found an optimal one myself. why doesn't it get goddamn drain punch
 
I want to express my views on one Pokemon that also got better with the recent UU promotions and imo also needs the boot besides Tornadus and Druddigon:

sharpedo.gif

This mofo is broken. VERY broken. It's extremely strong physically, being able to OHKO/2HKO almost the entire metagame with exception of some dedicated physical walls like Alomomola, Whimsicott and Tangrowth. But there seem to be an increase of Special/Mixed Sharpedo on the ladder, which is an annoyance to what is supposed to wall the shark. Not to mention the darn Destiny Bond, that is almost sure to KO any priority less offensive counter. Below is the relationship between the Sharpedo X what's supposed to counter it aka what can switch into Sharpedo, viable Pokemon style:

Alomomola, Amoonguss, Aromatisse, Gastrodon, Granbull, Hitmontop, Defensive Ludicolo, Poliwrath, Tangrowth, Virizion, Whimsicott. There is possibly more shit I'm forgetting, tho.

Thing is, most of what can switch into physical Sharpedo can't in Special/Mixed and vice-versa. The things that can switch in both, aka Virizion and Poliwrath, die to Destiny Bond while trying to take the Sharpedo down. Of course, not all Sharpedo run Destiny Bond due to a severe 4MSS, which is one of two arguments that may advocate the staying of the Brutal Pokemon in RU:

1)Sharpedo's frailty and priority: Sharpedo is the ultimate glass cannon. Everything it can't kill probably kills it back. For this reason, it can't switch into almost nothing, the shark must always revenge kill unless sthere is a situation it can switch into. The problem is that unless you're running its checks, something is going to be 2HKOed at best, often forcing you to sack something to bring something that will only be 2HKOed or has priority. Destiny Bond variants can easily deal with the former, while the latter is a true concern, but Sharpedo's teammates can deal with most of the priority aimed at the shark. When all priority stop then Sharpedo can clean easily. Not to mention that while frail, Sharpedo resist a fair amount of priority moves such as Aqua Jet, Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Shadow Sneak, and Sucker Punch (252+ Atk Life Orb Cacturne Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 174-205 (61.9 - 72.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Of course Cacturne would better be using its Grass STAB, but it's to prove that Sharpedo doesn't die so easily to any priority), while Protect can scout against some Pokemon that carry Fake Out like Medicham and Ambipom.

2)Four Moveslot Syndrome: This is another point as if Sharpedo should remain at RU or not. Its movesets consist of mostly its STABs, Protect/Aqua Jet (the former is better imo) and coverage/Destiny Bond. The 4MSS is not a problem at all in Sharpedo's case, it's actually a blessing. Sharpedo can be easily tailored according the needs of the team it is part of. Virizion weak? Use Zen Headbutt on physical. Trouble with physically defensive Grass-types? Make it special or mixed with Ice Beam. Or if you just want to clear the path for another Pokemon, just use a super fast Destiny Bond that creates a damn 50/50 situation ("Healthy meta imo" - Starmie, Shooting). Destiny Bond is amazing in a fast Pokemon like Sharpedo, which provides valuable team support and can most often win you games. Sharpedo is unpredictable despite its predictability, as paradoxal as it sounds.

tl;dr: Sharpedo is broken. Not as Torn obviously but imo still needs to go. It's strong, versatile and can easily grabs 1 or more KOes per game. Maybe after Tornadus is banned the metagame may adapt better to Sharpedo with things like Tangrowth and Vivillon and Fighting-types being more common, but as of yet it's wrecking the metagame. I'd hate to lose something that fucks Cress and Bronzong, however for me at least it's necessary. Feel free to post your thoughts about the shark.

P.S.: This post would be about Choice Specs Tangrowth, but later I do it.

22:00 socuteboss it ight not be broken now because tornadus exists but it has the potential to be really broken in the future
Click to expand...

Wasn't the same argument given to Klefki's ban from UU somewhat?
 
Don Honchkrorleone Sharpedo is indeed very threatening, but its fraility does hold it back, meaning it must either choose coverage or priority, and even then Shark must KO everything in one hit or risk taking major damage. Shark does know Destiny Bond, but it still limits its options and sweeping ability. Probably the main reason why Shark is so strong at the moment is because Tornadus (who has little reason to not be used right now) is limiting a lot of its checks, such as Amoonguss, Virizion, Cobalion, Tangrowth, Poliwrath, and Hitmontop. If/When Tornadus leaves, these Pokemon would bounce back up in usage and keep Shark under control.
 
Ok, guess I'll cover some things, but first off: Molk , your joking kinda throws me off a bit... will explain more in PM, but yeah. Anyway, on to more important stuff:

Durant: I like how some people are just now catching on to how good this thing is. TRC. knows it has been on my radar for quite some time now. Honestly, Durant is something I predicted would get a lot of attention once the tier began to settle down, and I'm glad to see I'm right. While I personally prefer to use Lum Berry over Life Orb to actually be able to setup on some more shit, there's no denying how good it can be. I actually find X-Scissor to be the easiest move to give up considering you're already beating most Grass-types (HP Fire Tangrowth is an ass) Everything else you get to hit hard enough with Iron Head, which is much more useful in dumping Aromatisse and Granbull imo. This gives you room for BOTH Rock Slide and Superpower. Also, don't sleep on Choice Band. While not as consistent, Choice Band Durant is a fuking nuke off the bat (if it hits of course!) that requires no setup and can run full coverage. Kinda overshadowed by Escavalier due to similar typing, but I'm glad it's starting to get the recognition it deserves.

Sharpedo: Something else I have really liked exploring with, but I feel the 4MSS is much more severe than you make it out to be Don Honchkrorleone. Sure, you can kinda tailor Sharpedo to the needs of your team, but if you fail to take out something, you're as good as dead. Sharpedo's defenses barely make do for a wet paper bag. Sure, it lost Shaymin as a reliable offensive check, but if/when Tornadus gets the boot it deserves, I feel a lot of Sharpedo's checks and counters will be able to, once again, rise up. Not denying Shark is a major threat that you need to be ready to handle, but those defenses and lack of ability to get past some common Fighting-types such as Virizion, Cobalion, Hitmontop, and Poliwrath really hurts. Grass-types like Tangrowth, Amoonguss, and Rotom-C can also tank out a hit or two if need be and virtually insta-kill Shark.
 
Jonater said:
Going to dump a set that I enjoyed alot and is long overdue. Although it was made to check top threats like Kyurem, it still functions as a pretty decent mixed pivot.

hariyama.gif

Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 152 Atk / 252 HP / 96 Def / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Close Combat
- Fire Punch
- Knock Off

The EV spread is a bit wonky, but I shall explain them to you. The 152 Attack EVs are designed so that you OHKO escavalier under Stealth Rocks. The 96 Defense EV's allow it to check Escavalier and gives it mixed bulk. The rest of the EVs are put into special defense. As you can see, The spread is specially designed to take on Escavalier, but can also take on many other fire/ice type threats. It can especially take on Emboar, but falls to a superpower.

Calcs:

This is how it fared against Kyurem:
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 109-130 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 16.4% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 147-173 (29.8 - 35.1%) -- 19% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 208-246 (42.2 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

Now various threats:
252+ Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Hariyama: 195-229 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Hariyama: 144-171 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- 8.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Emboar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 109-129 (22.1 - 26.2%) -- 6.5% chance to 4HKO
112 Atk Life Orb Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Hariyama: 289-341 (58.7 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 102-120 (20.7 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after hail damage
252+ SpA Mega Abomasnow Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 138-163 (28 - 33.1%) -- 92.2% chance to 3HKO after hail damage

Comments? Spread Changes?
Click to expand...


hello i am late but i would like to say JESUS CHRIST PPL STOP PUTTING ASSVEST ON RANDOM SHIT K TYYYYY :]!!
 
Another slept-on threat.

images

Samurott @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Megahorn
- Aqua Jet / Knock Off

Water + Bug coverage is excellent in the meta right now. It's not just good neutral coverage; it also strikes some of the bulkiest Pokemon in the tier for super effective damage. Rhyperior, Gligar, Tangrowth, Slowking, and Cresselia take massive damage from Samurott's attacks, and the otter's adequate bulk lets it set up nicely. Aqua Jet is a nice move to use against offense and lets it emergency check shit like Delphox, Rock Polish Rhyperior, and Scarf Emboar. If you feel like torturing defensive teams some more, Knock Off lets you wreck Jellicent, Trevenant, and Doublade (srsly man this thing just tanks any physical hit), and soften up stuff like Amoonguss and Gastrodon to prepare them for the eventual skewering.
 
It seems Assault Vest is really bad on the majority of the Pokemon in the tier, so why not just force them to wear one. Tired of Shuckle always setting up hazards, give it an Assault Vest. Those support Pokemon that their team needs to function well, give them that Assault Vest. How about that cleric that keeps healing their team, give it the thing you're wearing. Using the Combo of Klutz + Switcheroo + Assault Vest, you can give the Assault Vest to any Pokemon you want.

This might not be the best thing, or even that great, but all the negative feedback from using the Assault Vest on random Pokemon just gave me this silly idea.
 
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shadowyoshi64 said:
It seems Assault Vest is really bad on the majority of the Pokemon in the tier, so why not just force them to wear one. Tired of Shuckle always setting up hazards, give it an Assault Vest. Those support Pokemon that their team needs to function well, give them that Assault Vest. How about that cleric that keeps healing their team, give it the thing you're wearing. Using the Combo of Klutz + Switcheroo + Assault Vest, you can give the Assault Vest to any Pokemon you want.

This might not be the best thing, or even that great, but all the negative feedback from using the Assault Vest on random Pokemon just gave me this silly idea.
Click to expand...
The only fault with this is that the combination of Klutz + Switcheroo/Trick is limited to all of Buneary, Lopunny, Woobat and Swoobat. So if you're going to use that you're stuck with either of them (Lopunny/Swoobat because the other two are jokes anyway) which is going to be dead weight to your team pretty much always after you've tricked the item away. Sure it might cripple something, but you're always going to go into any situation with a disadvantage because of it.

On a different note, here's for AV Amoongus I'm kidding.
 
EonX- said:
Ok, guess I'll cover some things, but first off: Molk , your joking kinda throws me off a bit... will explain more in PM, but yeah. Anyway, on to more important stuff:

Durant: I like how some people are just now catching on to how good this thing is. TRC. knows it has been on my radar for quite some time now. Honestly, Durant is something I predicted would get a lot of attention once the tier began to settle down, and I'm glad to see I'm right. While I personally prefer to use Lum Berry over Life Orb to actually be able to setup on some more shit, there's no denying how good it can be. I actually find X-Scissor to be the easiest move to give up considering you're already beating most Grass-types (HP Fire Tangrowth is an ass) Everything else you get to hit hard enough with Iron Head, which is much more useful in dumping Aromatisse and Granbull imo. This gives you room for BOTH Rock Slide and Superpower. Also, don't sleep on Choice Band. While not as consistent, Choice Band Durant is a fuking nuke off the bat (if it hits of course!) that requires no setup and can run full coverage. Kinda overshadowed by Escavalier due to similar typing, but I'm glad it's starting to get the recognition it deserves.

Sharpedo: Something else I have really liked exploring with, but I feel the 4MSS is much more severe than you make it out to be Don Honchkrorleone. Sure, you can kinda tailor Sharpedo to the needs of your team, but if you fail to take out something, you're as good as dead. Sharpedo's defenses barely make do for a wet paper bag. Sure, it lost Shaymin as a reliable offensive check, but if/when Tornadus gets the boot it deserves, I feel a lot of Sharpedo's checks and counters will be able to, once again, rise up. Not denying Shark is a major threat that you need to be ready to handle, but those defenses and lack of ability to get past some common Fighting-types such as Virizion, Cobalion, Hitmontop, and Poliwrath really hurts. Grass-types like Tangrowth, Amoonguss, and Rotom-C can also tank out a hit or two if need be and virtually insta-kill Shark.
Click to expand...
X Scissors is a lot more important than you are saying. It is the move that hits the walls you are supposed to break such as Cresselia, Alomomola and Slowking opposed to Golbat, Gligar (which is easy to deal with anyway), Aromatisse, and Rhyperior. I think that Superpower is the best option in the last slot to hit Steel types as Moltres takes a ton from Iron Head after rocks and usually doesn't have bulk investment. With this coverage moves you can't hit Jellicent so Thunder Fang is a viable option to hit both Moltres and Jello.
 
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Another check to Durant's hone claws set that i'm surprised nobody has mentioned is Doublade. Doublade is actually a great offensive check to a lot of things in the tier, including headaches like Ambipom and Cinccino. Anything physical without a strong fire, ground, ghost or dark move is really hard-pressed to get past this thing. The abundance of knock off is a pain, but it doesn't stop Doublade from checking threats like Hitmonlee and Gallade even if it's left crippled after killing them. Even Escavalier with the combination of drill run/knock off has a hard time finishing it, and Doublade is capable of switching into banded sets locked on megahorn/iron head without a scratch. Even if it does wilt at the sight of any special attacker, it can still hit switch-ins hard if they don't resist iron head or sacred sword. Its sheer physical bulk and great typing make it good at what it does, i'm surprised I don't see it more often.
 
Guys, seriously, we can still make AV sets. Everyone jumps at the thought of an AV set...why? Assault Vest is an item made for tanks. Druddigon, conkeldurr, escavalier, etc are tanks and they work well with an assault vest. Guess what Hariyama is? A tank! Stop hating on AV mons unless its on a wall or sweeper, where it shouldnt be
 
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because hariyama has pretty bad special defense even with av, doesn't get drain punch, and also dies to a good portion of physical hits, since it also has terrible physical defense, unlike conk in ou. seriously fucking stop slapping av on shit and call it good because it's not.
 
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On a change of subject, has anybody tried to make a weather based team yet? I've Tried a sun team and it went around alright, though not being able to use Heatran definitely sucked. Thankfully there are a couple decent chlorophyll pokemon in the tier that I can use and a few decent weather setters. I'm curious to see what you guys think, if its possible or a lost cause.
 
The Lucky Absol said:
On a change of subject, has anybody tried to make a weather based team yet? I've Tried a sun team and it went around alright, though not being able to use Heatran definitely sucked. Thankfully there are a couple decent chlorophyll pokemon in the tier that I can use and a few decent weather setters. I'm curious to see what you guys think, if its possible or a lost cause.
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I'm actually a big fan of Sun teams, and there's potential for them in RU. Some things that stand out to me:

Weather-starters:
  • Pretty much anything with Prankster (Tornadus, Whimsicott, Liepard, Volbeat/Illumise, Meowstic, and Murkrow)
Chlorophyll users:
  • Bellossom
  • Lilligant
  • Shiftry
  • Sawsbuck
  • Victreebel
Fire-types:
  • Emboar
  • Flareon
  • Magmortar
  • Pyroar
  • Typhlosion
And then there's sun-abusers like Heliolisk (Solar Power), Exeggutor, and Tropius (both of which get Harvest). So yeah, I think Sun could definitely be viable.
 
Rain has its benefits as well (especially with Escavalier in this tier).

Swift Swim users:
  • Poliwrath
  • Omastar
  • Kabutops
  • Ludicolo
  • Carracosta
Rain Dish users:
  • Ludicolo
  • Pelipper
Dry Skin users
  • Jynx
  • Heliolisk
  • Parasect
 
DFB3636 said:
I'm actually a big fan of Sun teams, and there's potential for them in RU. Some things that stand out to me:

Weather-starters:
  • Pretty much anything with Prankster (Tornadus, Whimsicott, Liepard, Volbeat/Illumise, Meowstic, and Murkrow)
Chlorophyll users:
  • Bellossom
  • Lilligant
  • Shiftry
  • Sawsbuck
  • Victreebel
Fire-types:
  • Emboar
  • Flareon
  • Magmortar
  • Pyroar
  • Typhlosion
And then there's sun-abusers like Heliolisk (Solar Power), Exeggutor, and Tropius (both of which get Harvest). So yeah, I think Sun could definitely be viable.
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For Sun setters, I didn't use anything with prankster. The reason why is I don't want to have a pokemon that feels like dead weight to my team. I know Tornadus is always great, but keep in mind, hurricane's accuracy drops in the sun, reducing its handiness. Instead I chose Rotom-Mow and Delphox, the former because I needed a ground immunity that was neutral to rocks, the latter because I needed something to resist fighting types.

Also I thought about using hail since we have Abomasnow and its mega form in the tier, but with so many fire and steel types running rampant in the tier, I don't think it would be nearly as effective.
 
Hail is also a pretty shitty weather because it doesn't do anything notable except activate Snow Cloak (muh hax,) Ice Body (muh stall,) deal chip damage (also muh stall,) and make Blizzard 100% accurate.

Whereas Rain and Sun have ultra scary Chrolophyll/Swift Swim sweepers like Kabutops, Lucidolo, Victreebel, Sawsbuck and Shiftry. And Sand has, uh, Stoutland.
 
Assault Vest Hariyama is nowhere near as bad as people are making it out to be. Just going from the criteria that Molk put in his big post about Assault Vest users.

1) Frail Pokemon.
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Hariyama is nowhere near frail. Its physical bulk isn't great, but it still takes hits almost as well as Keldeo, which isn't bad at all. For a more RU relevant example, 4/0 Hariyama has about 97% as much physical bulk as an equally invested Escavalier. Meanwhile, the Assault Vest boosts its special bulk to really high levels; a 4/252 Assault Vest Hariyama is sporting about 98% of the special bulk of an equally invested Lugia and about 17% more special bulk than a 4/252 Assault Vest Conkeldurr. Not bad.

2) Pokemon with important support moves.
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So what exactly is Hariyama missing out on with an Assault Vest? Whirlwind and...RestTalk? Those are important on defensive sets, but offensive variants of Hariyama have little use for them.

3) Pokemon that might want to use boosting moves
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Bulk Up is pretty much entirely outclassed by things like Gallade, so unless you're trying to sweep with Belly Drum or something, Hariyama isn't exactly missing out here either.

As for Pokemon that make good Assault Vest users, Pokemon with good bulk, high offenses, and the ability to run 4 attacking moves while still being fully effective (that means not missing utility moves, looking at you rhyperior) are excellent Assault Vest users, Escavalier being a prime example.
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This describes Hariyama pretty well. I've already demonstrated that its bulk is solid. Base 120 Atk is scary enough, especially if you happen to get a Guts boost from a random Scald burn or something. Hariyama also has more than enough moves to run a 4 attacking moves set comfortably, with strong STABs in Close Combat or maybe Cross Chop if you really hate the defense drops, 2 priority moves in Fake Out and Bullet Punch, the quintessential Knock Off, and other solid coverage moves in things like Stone Edge and the elemental punches. Sure it has a few flaws, mainly that it lacks Drain Punch, but it's not like Drain Punch is super reliable recovery either. There's also this bit from the threatlist atomicllamas posted, for what it's worth:

Hariyama- Decent AV user and Guts Attacker with two priority moves. Defensive Thick Fat shuffling set is usable to deal with Fire and Ice type but it relies on rest and Delphox exists.
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I'm not saying that Assault Vest Hariyama is a fantastic set or anything, but the lashing out against it in the last page has been really exaggerated. It's nowhere near as bad as things like Assault Vest Alomomola and Sharpedo, which were some of the main reasons that the whole "stop slapping Assault Vest on random things" line started. Assault Vest Hariyama is not that bad.
 
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