Metagame NP: RU Stage 10: Your Makeup is Terrible

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

After playing RU again for what seemed like ages, I can already see the huge impact Noivern has had on the metagame. Having base 123 Speed means that Scarf Emboar can't outspeed to revenge kill it, so you're forced to use other scarfers or HP Ice Jolteon to do so. Switching into it isn't easy either as it's STAB moves, Draco Meteor and Hurricane has incredibly high base power denting practically everything; Mega Audino, Spdef Togetic and Aromatisse are the common switch ins I've been seeing on the ladder but since they're all Fairy-types, mons like Delphox and Cobalion can take advantage of these and put a lot of pressure on your opponent to not let their Noivern checks give free set up to these two. The only saving grace is the Stealth Rock weakness as well as needing Life Orb to really be effective, so it can be worn down but the overcentralization Noivern has had on the meta completely outweighs this weakness and should be banned.

What I've learnt from playing RU is that if you don't have Dark type / Quagsire / Reuniclus, you're basically gonna lose to CM Reuniclus. The CM set can rip through stall and balance and even offense if it can get in on choice-locked not very effective move. The OTR set really turns the table against offense, practically getting kills or heavily weakening something, just do come back in later and repeat the process. The sheer power and bulk to dismantle all playstyles makes it far too good for the tier, so yeah, I'm for a ban.

I'm still about halfway through my reqs, but I don't my opinion will change upon completion.

 

[TheBulletInMyHead]

To be honest, Reuniclus being suspected really shocked me. I know people have said it was broken, but I've just never really had much trouble with it, now that I think about it, it was probably because I always used doublade to check it, and now that it's gone, I guess it is a lot better now.

After looking through the tier list, finding checks is definitely a harder task than it seemed. I first saw Drapion, but then ran a calc and max attack knock off only does like 60ish percent max. This means Reun can recover of it and it'll only do 40 next turn and a psychic type can proceed to set up on a dark type, which probably isn't all that healthy. Then I saw scrafty but the calc is the exact same and it's weak to focus blast so I guess that wouldn't really work either. I'm going to have to use it on the suspect ladder a little bit, but as of right now, it's looking like I'm gonna vote BAN

Noivern kind of threw me for a loop too, but now that I think about it, I have no idea why. it absolutely shits on offense and there's really no playstyle it can't do work against. a specs switcharoo set can cripple stall and then it can do some work to the rest of the team with it's high power STABs. I think I'm going to have to say BAN on this as well tbh

 

[DennisEG]

Ok i've played RU latelly and tbh Noivern is just too much for the tier, Specs or LO set both are very gud rn, due to his great speed and powerfull stab move and on top of that Flamethrower coverage and the ability to roost up the damage i mean u force to run Priority Ice shard mon which in unhealthy for metagame, i said straigh ban.
In the other hand reuni is a great mon but a bit to slower, there some soft check as people mention earlier on this thread like AV Escavalier, Sneasel, Tomb etc, for the cm set, TR set late game is pretty overpower imo, theres few that can still take this set like aromatisse, av melo and tomb as well but i dont know man reuniculus for me is just a great mon that u have to prepare for, like cobalion so i said No ban.

 

[valetta]

Wasn't really surprised with these mons getting tested, however i don't feel like they're both broken. Reuniclus i feel like is just such an easy pokemon to slap on your team, checks so many stuff, switches into and sets up on so much defensive threats that rely on status to deal damage or just can't do much back (see mola, aromatisse, bronzong etc.) It's just so easy to slap this on your team and people also don't realise how much sets it has. I've even seen specs future sight with/without regen used succesfully paired with stuff like hitmonlee which doesn't appreciate bulky poisons to keep them out. There are definitely checks to this thing but all of them can but lured with a diff mon/worn down with hazards and most lack reliable coverage bar resttalk escav and rest tomb. I feel like this thing deserves a ban.
Noivern on the other hand I've never had issues with. I just always have a mon that can switch into it and deal with it easily. It's kinda like pidgeot but can hold an item, however that alone i don't think deserves a ban. It's definitely a threat and makes stuff like scarf emboar less viable, but every single team i make just happens to have a counter to this even if i don't necessarily use that mon for it. It's powerful, fast, but i still don't think its unhealthy for the meta, i would probably even ban cobalion before this thing. So for now i would say no ban.

 

[rs]

So from what I've played from RU, not too surprised these mons were suspected.

Reuniclus, being one of the best bulky/sheer power mons in the game can rip through various playstyles with the CM set. With Magic Guard keeping it from being statused and leftovers+Recover as reliable ways to keep it from dying. As others have probably said above, if you don't have a Dark type/Quagsire/other bulky mon you're going to lose to this monster, but even then some of those mons could lose to reuni with just 1 CM up (Definitely restricts teambuilding). I feel like this monster definitely needs a ban.

Noivern, coming from UU, most users thought it would be broken before it even came down to test. It pretty much is. Fast and strong Draco's pretty much define this mon. Not to mention its solid movepool, having access to flamethrower/hurricane/boomburst. I could see this mon being a bit less broken if Abomasnow was in the tier because of ice shard destroying it. But since it rose, this thing is a huge threat. I would have to say ban on this one as well.

 

[Lord Death Man]

Only sort of (15 or so matches) into the suspect ladder rn but I played the pre-suspect ladder a whole lot since the Kingdra drops on a lot of teams so.

I have found Noivern underwhelming since it drops - and I've been playing an Accelgor hyper offense team with pretty much no straight answers to it. Generally, LO with 3 attacks and U-Turn or Roost are the most threatening depending on my team composition. Specs kind of kills Noivern's ability to make use of it's great movepool, and Switcheroo neuters your great power. The Tauntroost set is also beyond disappointing and I have no idea why people hype it up so much, since it suddenly doesn't do anything against offense and *still* loses to Aromatisse. I think I will Abstain because obviously I'm doing something really right or really wrong to be completely underwhelmed by something that's creating such a visceral reaction from people.

Reuniclus is weird because I think this is a clearly broken mon and people just have no idea how to use it. As others have mentioned, specs w/Regenerator and Trick Room both exist but Calm Mind takes the forefront; in my experience, offensive Trick Room and the Specs pivot are the sets to use, since everyone knows how to beat the CM set or get cleaned out. I've been running OTR on hazard stack HO and I found that generally, against rival offense teams, I could play as poorly as I wanted and so long as I baited out and beat the rare Spiritomb/Ambipom/Fletchinder, I was guaranteed a win and sometimes I won anyway. The best/worst part is that people often try to *save* their Reun check, which makes them not switch in their Spiritomb/Trickscarf/whatever. The ability to beat rival offense while making rival stall play very safely was ridiculous. Ban.

Cobalion. This isn't a suspect but really should be, since when people mention checks and counters, they're only for the SubSD set. Occa Berry SD lets you beat Noivern, the most common revenge killer, and go on to sweep their team. Taunt SD beats Hex+Taunt Jellicent (who would otherwise beat the two suspect's most common sets) and Spiritomb, since they kind of need to use WoW to beat you. Rock Polish + SD Life Orb sets punish rival offense, the one team comp I think Cobalion has slightly less than amazing matchup against. SubCM sets up on Jellicent and Pelipper. Stone Edge works pretty well as a lure for Noivern and beats Pelipper. Shuca sets up on Megalix but idk why you'd need to do that but it's there. Salac + SubSD is bad but I lost to it once. Volt Switch + SD lets you do chip damage to the pretty unreliable checks people are forced into using to deal with this monster. Quagsire is like the most reliable counter to Cobalion it gets 2hko'd by Focus Blast from a CM set. This thing is awful to face regardless of playstyle and impossible to truly check or counter. I would vote ban if it was up.

Also Toxic Spikes are really good in this meta yet again. Flygon turned out to not be the great defog mon we hoped for (even though it is pretty decent) but it and Noivern really pressure grounded Poison types from being being placed on teams and Cobalion pressures the common defog mons by existing and probably should be on your team.

 

[xastify]

Okay so playing around ladder a bit, here are my opinions

Noivern: I for one find this really ban worthy for a variety of reasons. Noivern's speed tier is great to start off with, which makes it extremely hard for offensive teams to deal with it. With a base speed of 123, Noivern can outspeed many threats like Scarfed Emboar, +1 Jolly Scrafty, and many more. It's coverage hits a ton of mons, Draco and Hurricane being great stabs in general and Flamethrower to hit steel types that would have walled Noivern. Infiltrator also makes it a lot harder to deal with, being able to hit things under a sub like SD Cobalion (which is big rn) or the not as popular Sub BU Gallade. Noivern literally tears through offensive teams and can really hard to deal with unless youre running something along the lines of Scarfed Flygon (which can u-turn out) or something like Pursuit Sneasel (which is probably bad but it is an example none the less). To counter argue what people saying Noivern shouldnt be banned, the rise/fall in viability of different mons really display how restricting and unhealthy this thing is. I mean yeah, Flygon was also a reason for it but Noivern imo is probably the bigger reason to do so. I think Hurricane miss chance doesn't make Noivern not ban worthy, cause tbh you shouldnt be relying on it to miss anyway lol (not saying thats what you said but it kind of implys that). Anyway, yeah I would ban this.

Reuniclus: Reuniclus I am kind of on the fence with. Part of me wants to keep it because it is sooo good, but the other part wants me to ban it because it's so good. The meta really let Reuniclus shine with fighting types being really common now. Reuniclus is hands down one of the best stallbreakers of the tier. It is super hard to take down because of its great bulk and pretty good typing in the meta. Magic guard+ Recover makes it really hard to weaken and wear down. Pursuit trappers are a thing yes, but Spiritomb is really easy to whittle down unless it has Rest/Painsplit, which isnt too too reliable. Other pursuit trappers can be trapped by Dugtrio, making it extremely risky to play around with saving Reuniclus checks (ex. Drapion). Stall has such a hard time with it, and even offensive teams can be tossed around by Reuniclus. The thunder wave Reuniclus set can do quite some work vs offensive teams. Also, OTR Reuniclus is pretty cool and can do work vs offense. But on the other hand, there are a lot of checks to Reuniclus, and Reuniclus relys too much on setting up to do actualy damage imo. In the end, as much as I want to keep it, I think I'd have to abstain on this one.

I still have some ways to go before i get my reqs, but I think my opinion is set

 

[Cowtao]

So after talking to Nails about meta stuff I have come to a conclusion about the suspects.

Reuniclus was a covered up issue due to the situations that Reuniclus appeared in for the meta game. Before, a lot of Hard Checks like Drapion, Skuntank, and etc. used to be common place that always hampered Reuni from taking over the metagame. There was also stiff competition from other Psychic-Types such as Slowking, Meloetta, and Cresselia. Now into this metagame, a majority of Reuni's original Hard Checks dissipated their niche as more powerful types like Noivern and Flygon appeared. This leaves Reuniclus with very little in the way of preventing a Calm Mind sweep. With competition gone, Reuni's viability in other sets and moves like Signal Beam, Thunder Wave, and Focus Blast can have more purposes to trump specific checks. It adds more towards his brokeness as a setup sweeper and really should have been looked at more closely prior to the tier shift. Ban.

Noviern is basically the second coming of Moltres. Except it's a bit worse due to Noivern's typing which reduces SR weakness and Rock-Type weakness. It also has a very viable moveset that lets it play on the go to gain momentum on switch-ins and counters towards it. With Moltres, U-Turn became a niche move at best to avoid being bopped by a Rhyperior. Now, U-Turn is almost essentially on every Noivern set to outplay switch-ins like the aforementioned Rhyperior. It also has some power with it's abusive dual STAB. Hurricane and Draco Meteor have amazing coverage and don't risk as much punishment as Fire Blast / Hurricane did. The speed tier is also brutal, outspeeding almost all of the metagame bar Jolteon so it adds more towards it's appeal and on-the-go playstyle. There are also some players that are taking advantage of Noivern's broad moveset; with access to Boomburst, Taunt, Flamethrower, etc. so Noivern becomes extremely unpredictable. This needs to go.

 

[Wanka]

Just some initials thoughts on these mons.

Noivern: The dude above me could not have said it any better. When this thing first left UU I had a feeling it could really resemble a mon like moltres. A mon that learns both hurricane and draco meteor paired with blazing speed has the potential to be very detrimental to a tier like RU especially after recently losing some of its walls. Along with those two moves you can slap u turn on their to provide easy momentum for a mon that forces a ton of switches. It's speed and power with the ability to force a crap ton of switches makes this mon brutal for RU and I will most likely vote ban.

Reuniclus: The combined bulk with reliable recovery that this mon has to offer can be very threatening to stall teams and even some offense teams. It is such a hassle to take down and paired with a potential T wave or even Trick room it can do large, large amounts of work to a tier that has recently gained some fast offensive threats. It does have some checks via spiritomb and drapion but drapion is pressured to stay healthy. It can be overwhelmed on occasion but as of now with its extreme longevity and ability to 6-0 teams given a check is taken out Im going to have to stick with ban for now.

 

[Holiday]

Idk how I feel about Reuniclus right now... It's not as splashable as I thought and you can't play it so blindly. It's still a top tier threat and deserves a suspect no doubt, but the ladder will tell me what's up.

Noivern on the other hand is p much boiled down to one of three situations:

A: outspeed the mon and drop a Draco/Hurricane

B: come in on a kill/slow turn and drop a Draco/Hurricane

C: Taunt something and drop a Draco/Hurricane

This mon is a threat and makes offense p unviable as it 2HKOS (iirc) all offensive mons. Fast af too, definitely ban.

 

[Christo]

Ok so i played RU for my first time today, and required reqs. In my opinion Reuniclus is not ban worthy right now. It is for sure a top tier threat, but has some solid checks that can deal with it nicely such as Jellicent, Spirtomb, Drapion etc. On the other hand, Noivern is way too much for the tier. It out-speeds everything and LO 3 attacks taunt handles pretty much any bulky "counter". The best counter I have seen is a Carbink, and that is just pathetic you have to result to using a Carbink to check a mon. For most teams, there are only revenge killers. When Noivern gets a free switch in they are forced to sack a mon most of the time. I do not think Noivern will be healthy to the tier due to it shitty on the whole tier bar a carbink lol.

Edit: Another problem I noticed is how unpredictable Noivern is due to it having so many viable sets with different moveslots like boomburst and Switcharoo

 

[Jimbo Morrison]

Noivern is simply too fast and has too many great STAB special attacks to be in RU any longer. Although hurricane is inacccurate, it hits more then it doesnt and does a ton of damage. As for Reinuclus, I feel the same way as in its just too big of annoyance. Fuck em both.

 

[ChilliTacos]

My Thoughts:

Noivern- It's a beast. I've been scared of this thing ever since it came down. I have been trying to find a decent check to it and it was a pain in the neck. It has powerul attacks amazing speed and amazing Sp Atk. It also has access to Inflitrator making it ignore subsitutes. It can clean up late game and is so easy to put it on a team. Ice priority moves can work but its very predictable and one who is using noivern probably already has an ice shard counter or check to it. Like Cobalion for example. Flygon can revenge kill it with outrage (if its scarfed) but that can be predictable and the opponent can easily switch out and bring bronzong or something. Anyway for my decision now is... BAN

Reuniclus- This thing is scary. Once it has set up a few calm minds it may sweep your whole team. However there are some counters to it such as Spiritomb and Escalvier. Even with those counters it still a scary thing. If you don't have any counters of this prepare for trouble. I would love to see it leave. Too unhealthy for the tier. For my decision will be BAN

Remember its my opinion! <3

 

[Arcueid]

Noivern - Literally shits upon everything. It has good dual STABS, i.e Air Slash, Hurricane, Draco Meteor. It also gets coverage moves such Boomburst and Fire Blast. Very versatile, and can use both Specs and LO. It is in the fastest Speed Tier of RU and it only gets outsped by Melo-P and Accelgor. It has access to Infiltrator which is a great ability. It can fuck up stall nice and easily by using Taunt, forcing switches and is currently the top tier threat of RU. It also has access to Roost, if predicted properly, you can use up Roost to heal when an opponent switches. Noivern fits on to most ORAS RU Teams and is definitely a force to be reckoned with. - Ban it rn

One of its viable sets

Master (Noivern) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Draco Meteor
- Air Slash / Hurricane
- Heat Wave

I'm abstaining to comment on Reuniclus as I haven't actually seen how broken it can be

spirit edit: if you're going to use a large image, please put it in hide tags

 

[Meru]

Noivern: The cause alone of the death of offense as its sky high speed and strong STABs (both in base power and coverage) allow it to OHKO almost every single Pokemon faster than Meloetta, of which there's quite a lot. We've been dealing with Hurricane this entire generation so I don't need to explain how good its coverage is in RU where special flying resists are lacking and confusion hax adds insult to injury. I'd say this one is way more banworthy of the two.

Reuniclus: I mean this Pokemon has always been ridiculous. Similar to Houndoom, it punishes people for running slow teams without a specific niche counter such as Spiritomb or Haze Articuno (lol). By far the biggest difference between before and now is that offensive teams can't just slap on Doublade + Dark-type (usually Drapion) to cover both coverage versions of the Calm Mind set, so it's not just defensive teams that are having trouble with this anymore, but offensive teams too. Trick Room is definitely not banworthy so I'm not going to bother to explain that set, but it does add a tiny bit more surprise value to make Reuniclus a little bit more ridiculous. While I think this would be less broken with Noivern not shitting on half of the offensive metagame, I still think it's unhealthy and much too controlling of a force in the context of team match-up. Also going to vote ban.

 

[Elecktrochoko]

Noivern: This pokémon has a HUGE presence in the tier, mainly because of its amazing Speed stat, as it outspeeds like every pokémons in the game. A stallbreaker set put it very well because it has Taunt to stop hazard setters, such as Cobalion and M-Steelix, and Super Fang to cripple them, plus Roost for longevity. With Infiltrator, nobody can resist the set; or Frisk to scout the opponent's pokémon. Secondly, it has a great offensive movepools and SpA. stats, plus its great typing, making it the Moltres's inheritor. Unlike Moltres, Noivern has Switcheroo to shut down defensives pokémons.

Result: Ban.

 

[g]

Noivern is simply ridiculous in RU at the moment and one of the most broken Pokemon I've had to deal with in RU until now. It has pretty much the same speed tier Choice Scarf Moltres did (outside of Accelgor, Jolteon, and Choice Scart Tyrantrum and Medicham which are the only 4 Pokemon that out speed it BTW) with considerably more power, wide coverage, access to Taunt and Switcheroo, and no Stealth Rock weakness. With Stealth Rock up the average RU balanced team has pretty much 2-3 Pokemon that can switch into Life Orb Draco Meteor and Hurricane (offense clearly has zero) which are Specially Defensive Togetic, Spdef Jellicent or Gastrodon, and Bronzong/Registeel, and with reserves. The first one is simply 3HKOd by Hurricane and doesn't OHKO back so a confusion sells its fate since its forced to Roost until it misses (forces a 50/50 with Taunt), Jellicent and Gastrodon lose to Taunt unless they have Ice Beam and are destroyed by sunnybeam lol, Registeel and Bronzing hate Focus Blast and Flamethrower and have no reliable recovery/possibly lose to Taunt Roost if they do. Considering the offense matchup it is pretty hard to count Pokemon that are not OHKOd when slightly weakened by a Choice Specs / Life Orb attack and the list is as short as Mega Audino (very offensive!!!) and Meloetta I guess.
This obviously forces nearly every team to deal with Noivern offensively somehow with either a Choice Scarf user like Medicham or Tyrantrum (or Stone Edge CS Hitmonlee if real) or priority in form of Ice Shard from Glalie, Piloswine, and Sneasel. This heavily restricts team building and I can't think why someone would vote to keep this.

Thoughts on Reuniclus

 

[Tom Bus]

Noivern is simply ridiculous in RU at the moment and one of the most broken Pokemon I've had to deal with in RU until now. It has pretty much the same speed tier Choice Scarf Moltres did (outside of Accelgor, Jolteon, and Choice Scart Tyrantrum and Medicham which are the only 4 Pokemon that out speed it BTW) with considerably more power, wide coverage, access to Taunt and Switcheroo, and no Stealth Rock weakness. With Stealth Rock up the average RU balanced team has pretty much 2-3 Pokemon that can switch into Life Orb Draco Meteor and Hurricane (offense clearly has zero) which are Specially Defensive Togetic, Spdef Jellicent or Gastrodon, and Bronzong/Registeel, and with reserves. The first one is simply 3HKOd by Hurricane and doesn't OHKO back so a confusion sells its fate since its forced to Roost until it misses (forces a 50/50 with Taunt), Jellicent and Gastrodon lose to Taunt unless they have Ice Beam and are destroyed by sunnybeam lol, Registeel and Bronzing hate Focus Blast and Flamethrower and have no reliable recovery/possibly lose to Taunt Roost if they do. Considering the offense matchup it is pretty hard to count Pokemon that are not OHKOd when slightly weakened by a Choice Specs / Life Orb attack and the list is as short as Mega Audino (very offensive!!!) and Meloetta I guess.
This obviously forces nearly every team to deal with Noivern offensively somehow with either a Choice Scarf user like Medicham or Tyrantrum (or Stone Edge CS Hitmonlee if real) or priority in form of Ice Shard from Glalie, Piloswine, and Sneasel. This heavily restricts team building and I can't think why someone would vote to keep this.

Thoughts on Reuniclus

I'd just like to add that specially defensive Aromatisse is a good counter with an ability that blocks taunt. Of course, it can't deal with switcheroo, but it's worth adding Aromatisse to the list of offensive Noivern checks.

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Noivern Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 149-177 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 171-202 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 242-288 (77.8 - 92.6%)

 

[g]

I'd just like to add that specially defensive Aromatisse is a good counter with an ability that blocks taunt. Of course, it can't deal with switcheroo, but it's worth adding Aromatisse to the list of offensive Noivern checks.

Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Noivern Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 149-177 (36.6 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aromatisse: 171-202 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 242-288 (77.8 - 92.6%)

Oh yeah I forgot to mention it but it is a pretty nice noivern counter even though I don't think it fits on balance as well as Togetic does since a lot of the time Defog and BP utility as well as the ability to take on Hitmonlee better without going max Defense (sacrificing Noivern checking capabilities) is better than Wish and Heal Bell

 

[Level 56]

So glad that noivern is being suspected because it is too good for RU at the moment. The real reason why noivern is so threatening in the current metagame is because how easily it crushes offensive teams. It is blessed with tremendous speed and great power, great STAB moves and with the access of life orb, very few things can switch in vs noivern. Not only it is a problem for offensive teams, but also it heavily threatens other playstyles as well. It does very well vs balanced teams as well as it has access to roost. Same can be said for stall teams, as noivern can give choice specs to the mon that somewhat checks it, making it pretty much useless for the rest of the battle. Overall, it heavily affects teambuilding in the current metagame as it plays multiple rolls in a battle and the opportunity cost is very little, which is the reason it should be banned.

As far as reuniclus is concerned, it is not as threatening as noivern, but it still affects teambuilding a whole lot. It does struggle vs offensive and balance teams a bit but that is not the problem. The problem reuniclus creates, Is that it makes stall difficult to use in the current metagame. The real problem here is its ability magic guard which allows it to set up without much problems after its check is elimimated along with its nice defense. Sometimes, it also carries life orb sets, that threatens offensive teams, so it is not completely useless against offensive teams. Overall, it is not that threatening as compared to noivern, but still it does make stall unviable which is why it should be banned to make the metagame better.

 

[rob.]

Noivern's great Dragon / Flying STABs + Fire coverage makes it very difficult to stop once it's able to switch in. Most things are crippled by Draco Meteor and the mon's that aren't are easily dispatched by its coverage moves are easily worn down / KOed by repeated Draco Meteor's, or by a teammate. Noivern's unique speed tier is the cherry on top. The best ways to deal with Noivern is to limit the amount of times it can switch in by using Stealth Rock or revenge KO it with a Choice Scarfed pokemon, which really speaks volumes on how it's nearly unstoppable. Noivern is really too much for ru and will most likely be banned because it cannot be adequately prepared for. I'm not to sure about Reuniclus since the only problem is the defensive Calm Mind set, which isn't really a problem for all archetypes, bar stall. There's an abundance of Dark/Bug mon's, that are easily accessible and are more than capable of dealing with Reuniclus. I'd have to play more to give a verdict on this but for now I'm leaning towards no ban.

 

[zdrup15]

After one of the most painful reqs run of my life, I have achieved those 2800 and let me say this: the metagame sucks. Reuniclus, Noivern, Cobalion and their checks/counters are everywhere, which isn't good for the meta since those 3 have very few viable checks in this meta.

Cobalion is still the best mon in the tier and it was easily the responsible for more than half of my wins. This happened despite Jellicent being everywhere. You might say Spiritomb is a better counter but if I'm choosing a Reuniclus/Cobalion counter, I'm picking the one with a fast Taunt (fast for the walls you're trying to cripple) that can also check Noivern and sweep entire stall teams on its own.

I played both balance and HO (not risking stall because those jellys and fetuses are everywhere) and I have to say I don't know how people say Reuniclus is only a problem for stall. My balances almost always had jelly and 1 Encore user and I still had to be careful all the time. And that's disregarding the fact that reuni has a ton of sets. I've seen CM (with some variations in items and moves), OTR, AV and Specs and they all work, giving troubles to different playstyles.

Noivern barely troubles stall but is tough for balance and hell for HO. It's not as good as reuni imo but it still has to go, even though it always misses hurricane when I'm using it.

PS: Use Expert Belt Emboar people, it's amazing. It destroys almost everything and it's fast enough to outrun most walls. Offense usually doesn't have any switch-in and it has good enough bulk so it's not like it's useless against it.

 

[Martin]

It is so f*cking painful trying to play properly on this ladder. I am someone who has never played RU much in the past, and just the thought of having to push through the endless Noiverns, Jellicents, Reuniclus (I asume that's also plural) and Cobalions is putting me off even attempting to play any more matches on this ladder. Having got to ~1500 COIL, I have decided that I really don't want to go for these reqs any more as the ladder is just atrocious, and if this is the effect that Reun, Noivern and Cobalion are having on the metagame it is a given that them being banned would be the best course of action because it is hell on earth just playing, and it is kind of discouraging newer players such as myself from getting into the tier seriously. That is not what you want from a metagame, which is why I am sincerely hoping that people vote to ban these pieces of sh*t. God - I am not putting myself through the trauma of this ladder any more...

 

[p2]

I got reqs and all I can say is, fuck Noivern. It's way too fast and powerful for the tier and is nearly impossible to counter. Half the tier can't even handle a Draco Meteor or a Hurricane and the rest of it loses to Flamethrower/Focus Blast or Switcheroo sets. It just crushes offensive teams and the only way you can really handle it is to slap ice coverage on anything or scarf anything faster than Emboar. Noivern definitely deserves to be banned.

Idk about Reuniclus though, I never saw a lot of them on the ladder and whenever I did they all ran Psyshock + Shadow Ball which was really manageable for the team I was using. But I think its effect on Stall and Balance and massive unpredictability as a whole is unhealthy for the meta and so I think it should be banned aswell.

 

[EonX]

Ok, before I really get into what I think about Noivern and Reuniclus, I just want to get a small bit of rage out. Meru, you're a fucking nerd for using AV Reuniclus. I hate you. (not really tho)

Noivern: This is what you get with Moltres's defensive typing + Mega Pidgeot's Speed. Seriously, this thing is ridiculous. It makes Scarfers / faster mons in general so damn predictable and you can also see priority coming from, like, 10 miles away. This is literally the bane of offense right now. Those with Roost can bone balance p. easily as well while those with Taunt can be really annoying for Stall teams to take down once they lose their Fairy. Hurricane misses like 80% of the time it feels like, but the fact of the matter is that all Vern needs is STABs + Flamethrower to wreck nearly half the tier. This isn't even considering the fact that NastyPass and SmashPass to this thing are absolutely brutal (as if it needed any help) The icing on the cake imo is the fact that it works so fucking well with Cobalion. Put these two together on an offensive team, and you're beating about every balance or stall team out there as long as you're competent and know their limits. It's strong as hell, fast as hell, requires faster mons (bar Scarf Tyrantrum, which gets covered by Cobalion) to be very predictable / easy to play around, needs almost no support to function properly, and actually has a defensive typing that can be helpful. Oh, and it only has one true defensive counter in LOLcarbink considering Draco does a considerable amount to Rhyperior and Regirock while it has Flamethrower for Steels and Hurricane for Fairies. Definitely voting to ban this pos.

Reuniclus: I was a little bit more hesitant on this one going in, but this thing needs to go. I was using a balance team with Jellicent and I basically would have to save Jelly from any prior damage if the opponent had a Reuniclus. Sure, Jellicent beats it really well for balance teams, but you have to sacrifice its ability to stop the other things it handles really well (namely Cobalion) considering Reuni is usually found with Pursuit and / or Knock Off support. Oh, I guess Toxic (Spikes) is a thing that accompanies Reuniclus at times too. It can single handedly destroy stall teams and even balance teams that lack Taunt + Wisp + Hex Jelly or a powerful Dark / Bug mon (think Escavalier, Spiritomb, Houndoom) are dead meat once this thing sets up. It may not perform as well vs. offense, but it isn't like many offensive mons appreciate Psychic + Fighting coverage in the first place. Even without a boost, Reuniclus has p. good Special Attack to hit some offensive mons hard with. The biggest issue I have with Reuniclus is that it has 3 other decently viable sets that serve different purposes. OTR ruins HO and balance can struggle with it too if their walls are weakened too much. Specs hits like a truck right off the bat and run either Magic Guard to avoid passive damage or Regenerator to alleviate damage taken from resisted hits throughout the match. AV is actually legit right now since it checks Noivern pretty hard along with most special attackers lacking a super effective move and has Regenerator to heal off some of the damage it takes (think Slowking, but minus the Water typing and plus a lot more power) About 95% certain that I'm going to vote Ban on this one as well.

One gem I did have a lot of fun with while getting my reqs was this thing:

Cobalion @ Black Belt
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Iron Head
- Rock Polish

Double Dance Cobalion is fucking insane right now. All you really need on Cobalion for coverage is its STAB moves, meaning you can basically run whatever the hell you want in the last slot. Most run Sub to increase Coba's effectiveness vs. defensive teams, but I like Rock Polish for a similar reason, but vs. offense. A lot of times when I was laddering, I noticed that offensive teams would safe a general faster mon and / or Noivern for Cobalion, meaning that all I would really need to do is wear down or remove Fighting resistances. Once I did that, I just sent Cobal after something locked in a bad move or without the ability to outright OHKO Cobalion, set up a Rock Polish, and then just win the game with Close Combat. When using Rock Polish, I feel that Black Belt is the best item so Close Combat has some raw power behind it in case you can't get up an SD alongside Rock Polish. This thing can be golden behind Dual Screens, or as just an amazing partner to Noivern or Reuniclus considering the things they force out are easy switch-ins for Cobalion to setup whatever move is more appropriate for the situation. You can use Life Orb with this set to also increase Iron Head's damage output, but you're really only using that vs. Fairies or some mon that you can't OHKO with CC and live a hit back from at -1 defenses. That and Black Belt lets you use Cobalion's physical bulk a bit more reliably while setting up if need be. Oh, and it definitely does still punish stall teams. Just, not quite as reliably as the SubSD and Taunt + SD variants can.