So, I've been strongly against this potential ban for a while, and I can't say anything has changed much. Finchinator here and Nat in the previous thread largely expressed my perspective on why Zydog isn't an overly broken presence, but I still want to give my own thoughts on Zydog as a mon in this meta, with some of the pros it allows in building and how you can limit its impact, + some thoughts on the overall meta and just why I don't see this is something really worth pursuing.
So, to me Zydog didn't really change much in the past year, if at all, in what exactly you put it on a team for and what you can get in game. There was, admittedly, a small window where DD became radically threatening, as people started to blindly rely on Shaymin + Steel to cover the considered far superior CB set, which imo it still is. Gligar had a hard time covering it, but DD Zydog's trajectory as a metagame threat, to me, is largely similar to the one Barbaracle experienced: a small window where its unexpected impact as a wincon came out of nowhere and felt overwhelming, until most people started realizing that it's a threat worth prepping for. Now, again, there's the CB set that is mighty threatening, Barb doesn't have anything of the sort, on top of the best possible stab you can get since like Psychic in gen 1. Still, its impact on the meta doesn't feel very relevant to me as a setup wincon. It
can do it sure, but that consistency is severely lacking.
So then, recently we've seen people come back to the CB set... To which the major change was Gligar rising, not necessarily because it walled it - it kinda didn't - but because it made Toxic threatening again to its bulky answers. The best game I played recently to provide an example of what Zydog does best would be in
my ssnls series against Hurtadoo. In that game, I think I clicked Thousand Arrows only to revenge a Registeel, I clicked Toxic once to put pressure on the Slowbro, and Espeed to clean. On the latter, it was clearly a noticeable wincon from the beginning: My opponent's team is half composed of mons susceptible to the move when locked in late game. That being said, I find it hard to point this game as an example of Zydog being significantly difficult to handle, rather, I see it mostly as a reward of getting the gameplan I setup for myself to work. Hurtadoo had three really good answers to Zydog, all three great mons in their own right, so really that's where the remainder of the team comes in to facilitate that matchup. In another tour,
I used the same team and faced a DD Zydog. There my own basically served as a fire check to Salazzle, safely revenging it because it's a stupid threat to my build, and that was really it. On the flip side, DD Zydog did... Well, nothing. Hazards force the defog way too much, which makes Pod very safe, and while my opponent tried to go for it, it just died to Bronzong since I knew darn well I was living anything at full. It's noticeable too that my team isn't really overly prepped for DD Zydog, but counterplay just... happens to be naturally possible.
So, what do I think of Zydog really, and why do I think it's important to keep it even if you could argue that, say, a Lycanroc probably would have had the same impact in those games? Oddly enough, Zydog to me feels extremely
safe, which might be cause for concerns for some but I find quite important. I value Zydog as offensive utility extremely highly, with a good priority, threatening but fairly low powered stab, potential to go for broke if you want to turn up the aggression, and valuable flexibility in the last slot. Plus, it's a fast ground type, an extremely rare and valuable asset, and put all that together and I just think it's something that on the right team is amazing for the tier because it checks a lot of boxes that you want... But , despite the relative safety I feel having it in the back to check situations in game, you
have to work for it, and yes, at times you have to take risks. Game one I threw my Virizion hard on the Houndoom because I couldn't risk Zydog, but losing Virizion could have been equally bad there when you look at its matchup against his defensive core. I just valued the Zydog route more. g2... what if I'm wrong and it's HP Ice? I lose to Salazzle that's what ig. On the other hand, my opponent there had to go for the risky route, going for broke because he was getting badly in the back with hazards and Mandi low. Nat referred to my game against KW in SPL, which is the opposite route. KW didn't want to risk the berry on Metagross - a standard counterplay really, so understandable - and also gambled on my Tangela switch to get traction back with Nidoqueen. That game is moreso a good example of how possible it is to turn back the clock on Zydog in game to me, and it's something I'm sure I alluded to. Knowing how to use Zydog means also knowing where you can just lose it stupidly, which is important but on the other hand can make you feel hesitant in game: It's definitely not "click TA and you're fine" at all.
I'm not going to go back to all the counterplay that's been quoted, again, others have done it very well. I'll reiterate though, that so much of the current counterplay is just good for multiple reasons, and one in particular is the ridiculous presence the fighting type has over this tier since the departure of Doublade and Gligar. Slowbro and Cresselia came back from the dead mostly because of that reason... But they also are superb counterplay to Zydog, in fact, they are
better counterplay to Zydog than the type they are used to counter. Mandibuzz is rising because it's a pseudo fighting counter, is a good defogger by default, and also is just a good check to Zydog in general. I've seen people being upset about the Tangela usage and its perceived relation to Zydog, but honestly, Tangela is just really good in general, mon just doesn't die, has the best ability in the game, and has the utility moves you really want that makes it an annoyance to passive builds, and it's also something you can throw in on a few of the fighting types to keep them at bay. Donphan and Torterra are actually dope rock resists, Golisopod is Jesus, list goes on... Point is, most teams - even in SPL - have been using oddball picks, but it's because this meta is fricking oddball. There's a ton of exploration possible due to the relative volatility we are still in, and hardly any of it is completely linked to Zydog's presence. This isn't Stakataka forcing every single offensive team to have like a way to ohko it on every mon, counterplay to Zydog is far more rational and easy to execute, and again, isn't something you fully dedicate one slot to in building. It
might happen in game but that's honestly normal. Oh, and I haven't even mentioned how utterly busted fire types are in this tier and I for one don't view us losing one of the best offensive check to them as a positive when they're almost all ridiculous. Even fricking Houndoom can look like a superstar because this meta cannot check fire types to save its life. Oh and heck, have you considered running offence without a fast normal resist? Because that's also borderline impossible otherwise Linoone can 6-0 on a free turn. That's also a thing that makes Zydog actually valuable for offence otherwise we're running Scarf Meta / Ttrum on basically every team.
Sooo... yeah Zydog is amazing, one of the best tool for offence, a great mon to execute a gameplan around to win a game or make progress, and I certainly didn't want to badmouth it, I've considered it one of the top 5 valuable assets to teams since we got it really. But it really doesn't have the consistent gamebreaking impact or an absurdly high ceiling for little risk. And I for one can't help but feel that this is mostly because it's easy to pick on Zydog: It's unique unlike fightings and fires so hey it's a bit annoying to work around and it's one mon. I don't agree with that route at all and it just really plays down its utility in building with it.
