Metagame NP: RU Stage 17: Try Again / Do It Again (Shaymin and Slurpuff banned, Tangrowth up to OU)

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People are claiming how Slurpuff is able to kill the entire tier, when technically Linoone, a C- rank mon, is able to do a similar job at the same condition (this mon runs Shadow Claw and Seed Bomb i think, + Extreme Speed beats priority mons like Sneasel or Fletch). The difference between them is, or should be, on which mons they are able to set up on, which aren't that much on paper. On bulky waters you risk the Scald burn, fighting types which are not medicham click knock off, bulky Drudiggon can Glare for free (I guess all of them should be running Gunk Shot right now), Spiritomb click wisp or even Foul Play maybe leaving defensive Granbull, Diancie, Gurdurr, Hitmontop, Malamar, Togetic and, Scarf Cham? which are quite a few. I feel this will be quickbanned but my experience from now is that it's broken because of the pairing with some trapping mons, which RU has a lot, than Slurpuff itself.

Btw wanna share my dank lure

0 Atk Diancie Gyro Ball (131 BP) vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 214-252 (66 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Diancie: 243-286 (79.9 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

At first I made the calc with 228 speed jolly, the UU spread, which would outspeed Scarf Jolly Virizion. It's a tiny roll but should be enough to leave Slurpuff to priority damage in any case, and Slur wouldn't be able to click Drain Punch

As for Shaymin, this dude needs a ban. Seed Flare Psychic and HP Fire hits everything on the tier besides maybe Registeel and even then it could stall Toss from it with Rest. If anyone has a good actual defensive check to this mouse carpet, that would be awesome.

Thanks for reading ^^
It also cant hit houndoom and delphox, and maybe some other things that i cant remember. Just saying lol
It also cant hit houndoom and delphox, and maybe some other things that i cant remember. Just saying lol
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndoom: 127-151 (43.6 - 51.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Delphox: 105-125 (36 - 42.9%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

They can only switch-in once lel.HP Fire allows to hit Escavalier, Bronzong and Rotom-M, which i'd consider better overall


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I know it's only been a couple of days but I think we can all safely say that both Shaymin and Slurpuff are a little too much for the tier, the former more than the latter. Venusaur was a top tier threat, and Shaymin is basically a better version of it with a considerably higher Speed tier, better bulk, more coverage, and what I think is the factor that really pushes Shaymin to ridiculous levels, Seed Flare. Seed Flare allows Shaymin to have a pretty decent chance at making its would-be defensive checks liabilities, while its offensive checks are too frail to switch in on it more than once, and that's IF the Shaymin user doesn't predict the switch and go for one of its 48979 excellent coverage options. So we're left with revenge killing or obscure Pokemon such as Miltank, SpDef Gogoat, or Bouffalant to have a surefire way of dealing with this thing. Revenge killing it can also be a task in itself considering its great bulk, as the tier's best Scarfer (Medicham) can't even 2HKO after LO damage and only has a small chance with SR. If that doesn't scream broken then idk what does. Fun tip: I've been running HP Rock for those Fletchinder running around everywhere + Pursuit Spiritomb and that basically ensures Shaymin has absolutely no surefire checks aside from Escavalier which is easy to wear down anyway.

Slurpuff is a bit easier to handle seeing how it finds it hard to actually set up a BD, but once it does, there's basically nothing stopping it aside from like Honedge (lol). Most of Slurpuff's 'checks' require minimal chip damage before they can no longer take a +6 Return or Drain Punch from it, which is very easy to get considering that most of them do not have access to reliable recovery, Dugtrio/Magneton exists, and they are used as soft checks to half the metagame anyway. But again, Slurpuff is a bit more debatable because it rarely finds opportunities to set up imo and is also very vulnerable to priority. However, it makes you think long and hard before sending out something like defensive Diancie or locking yourself into a HJK or Leaf Storm in fear of Slurpuff basically rampaging through your team. Slurpuff can even set up on most bulky waters if the user is bold enough to face Scald's 80% 30% burn chance. Even though it's kinda hard to set up and get going, Slurpuff just restricts not only teambuilding but also in-game playing too much for the tier imo

tldr; ban the two RU mons that are actually cute ;-;

Take Azelfie

More flags more fun
I've been thinking a little bit about our tiers current ground resist and today when I went to go build I saw and remembered Torterra and it just clicked. While its glory days were over when the end of the Tyrantrum and MLix era came I think it may have some real potential now to make its way onto teams. While its not identical to Tangrowth it has some pretty cool traits like STAB EQ and Synthesis and a plethora of other options like Rock Polish and Band. It also has Stealth Rock which is the key to its success. Of course it's not the same since the ground typing makes it much more vulnerable to Scald but it also makes Poison neutral and blocks Volt Switch which is decent. I'll probably finish my team and ladder a bit more with different sets and spreads and see what I can come up with but I thought i'd get this post out there to maybe help pull in some research on what this mon is fully capable of.
I've been trying out this set lately on a few different defensive teams and it's quite potent.

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Iron Head
- Toxic

It's the standard Curse Registeel, but with Toxic over Sleep Talk. Toxic makes Registeel much better at actually winning because it can get past Pokemon like Alomomola, and pressure annoying Pokemon like Emboar / Braviary. It's not too hard to get to the point where Registeel just wins if it gets a boost as many offensive Pokemon can no longer break a +1 Registeel easily, and it can no longer be walled by Pokemon like Alomomola and Slowking anymore. No Sleep Talk is annoying when you're being offensively pressured, but honestly, Sleep Talk is like the worst move ever because it fails more than Focus Blast misses anyways, so I rarely actually miss it. Another nice attribute of this set is it sets up on and beats the Fairy-types that try to Heal Bell Registeel's Toxic induced poisons away. This Registeel also beats 2 big stall threats in CM Flame Orb Sigilyph and Substitute + Bulk Up Braviary, which is really nice.

I've been running a decent amount of Attack EV's so I can always break Braviary's Substitutes and OHKO Dugtrio at +1 most of the time, but I'm not sure if it's the best spread on this set.

Obviously you need Heal Bell and Alomomola support, but they are both necessary on stall anyways and Granbull / Diancie synergize well with Registeel. There's still some Pokemon like Steelix and Weezing that wall this set, but it's more difficult to wall than the standard Curse Registeel.
Twilight Princess (Sigilyph) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Heat Wave
- Psychic
- Energy Ball / Calm Mind

This is a really interesting Sigilyph set I started using on my HO team a while ago. Substitute can be set up on walls such as Alomomola and also on predicted switches, which is relatively easy because Sigilyph can force many Pokemon out due to its power. The main purpose of Substitute in this tier, however, is to avoid being Pursuit trapped by Pokemon such as Scarf Drapion and Sneasel. Scarf Drapion users often immediately bring it into Sigilyph if Flame Orb is not yet activated, as they know that Drapion cannot be OHKO'd. However, if you Substitute on the Switch, you are able to get off a free Heat Wave on them for 51-61%, and then switch out freely. Pursuit only does 42-51% if the Sigilyph does not switch out, meaning that the Drapion user gains nothing by going for Pursuit. Sneasel is obviously OHKO'd by Heat Wave, meaning that Substitute can come in handy in case the Sneasel-user attempts to switch it in after sacrificing a Pokemon or into a Psychic.

Energy Ball is nice for hitting Pokemon such as Alomomola, Blastoise, and Diancie harder; Calm Mind is an option, though, as it is easy to set up against Pokemon such as Alomomola and Blastoise, and goes hand-in-hand with Substitute. Roost may also be an option on some teams; if you're worried about Spiritomb, you can always use Dazzling Gleam in the last slot, which deals massive damage and can turn the situation into two consecutive 50/50s. This set works best on HO teams due to the pressure it can put on the opponent and its very offensive nature. Here is a replay from RUPL finals showing its prowess, in which it effectively takes half of Drapion's life and lives on for future use:

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I'm just gonna share a Pokemon that I have enjoyed using lately that does pretty well in the metagame.

Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Roost
- Night Shade
- Toxic/Grass Knot

Xatu is an absolute beast in the metagame right now and I'm a huge fan of using it as a method of hazard control. To start, this set can beat any viable Stealth Rock user aside from Rhyperior, which is really good for a Magic Bounce User, and you can even run Grass Knot if you want to stop Rhyperior from setting up hazards as well. Looking down the list of Stealth Rock Users; Registeel gets hopelessly walled by Xatu and steadily worn away by Night Shade, Diancie gets its Diamond Storms stalled out by Roost and Toxic puts it on a huge timer, Mesprit and Uxie both get walled hard by Xatu and can't even use their Status moves to try and hit it, Seismitoad can't 2HKO Xatu while getting put on a timer by Toxic and worn down by Night Shade, Druddigon can't even 2HKO Xatu with Max Attack, and Bronzong is too passive to win vs Xatu. Not only does Xatu have the ability to ensure that Stealth Rock is almost never on your side of the field, but it also has many additional utility options in Tailwind, Thunder Wave, Baton Pass, and even Haze that can work on certain teams. Xatu is a god, start using it more fam.

I might add some more mons I like using later if I feel like it. Hope you guys liked this post :]
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Hate it or love it the under dog's on top
An Argument for Suspecting Alomomola:

To understand why I consider Alomomola suspect worthy, one must first understand the concept of momentum and Mola's role in momentum. Momentum is basically the amount of pressure you have applied against the enemy team. This pressure is commonly found in two forms; hazards (SR, spikes, tspikes) and type advantage (having a threatening mon vs their mon). When one has momentum, it puts a great deal of strain on the opposing member because they are the ones that have to react to the disadvantaged position. The most common way of gaining momentum is through hazards, as mentioned before. Besides that, however, a common way of gaining and maintaining momentum is through switch based moves such as volt switch, u-turn, and baton pass . This allows you to have type advantage and keep momentum. Set up moves like Swords Dance and Dragon Dance can also give you more momentum, but this is usually because you have the type advantage allowing you to set up. Conversely, momentum is loss when you go for a non switch based move or status move. While what you give up in momentum, you gain in damage on their pokemon. This damage is crucial for allowing your late game sweeper to sweep.

Now how does Mola play a role in this concept of momentum? Alomomola is the best mon in the tier at regaining momentum with minimal cost. This is due to several factors such as its good bulk and typing, its huge wishes it can pass, and its ability, regenerator. These factors make it can regain momentum for your team with suffering minimal damage and consequences in return. Regenerator allows the Mola user to basically stop the opposing members momentum and taking minimal, if any, damage in return. This allows it to not be affected by hazards as much and allows it wish pass without having to wish itself.

So lets say there are two cases of what you can do as they send in the Alomomola:
Case 1. You fire off your best attack or status move as the Alomomola switches in. In this case you lose your momentum in trade off of either a significant amount of damage on Alomomola or you status the Alomomola with either toxic, wisp, or twave.
Case 2. You double switch or using a switching move to keep your momentum as they send in Alomomola and thus gain type advantage and maintain your momentum.

For Case 1 you are losing your momentum in an attempt to weaken their Alomomola and thus have given up your momentum in trade for damage on this pokemon. Now the Alomomola user likely has the momentum and has a variety of ways it can abuse this momentum. In early stages of this game it can spread toxic, knock off leftovers providing chip damage to the opponent, or go for scald burns. In later stages of the game it can use this momentum by spreading wish passes to basically full heal whatever mon you send in to deal with Alomomola. Even if you manage to do say 50% to the mola as it switches in, you really have only accomplished roughly 12% of damage after leftovers recovery and regenerator. 12% of damage to a mon that gets a free knock off/toxic/wish/etc. to support its team. This amount of damage is generous and you will many times not even be doing net damage to the mola. Choiced pokemon in particular are very punished by alomomola because it can switch in to basically any attack from that choiced mon. For example, lets say you predict perfectly with you choice band Emboar and wild charge the incoming Alomomola. You have done like 70% damage after leftovers to the Alomomola. Now your momentum is completely gone and you are locked into a electric move. After the mola switches out you've accomplished roughly 35% net damage vs the mola and now the Mola user has the momentum. Only 35% HP for playing perfectly while the opponent just had to send out Mola. This makes the non-Mola user have to predict nearly perfectly in order for it to succesfully punish Alomomola. There is a reason why the tier is limited to choice band and choice specs pokemon. Choice scarf pokemon are simply punished way too hard by alomomola for them to be used. The only super common scarfer is Drapion and that is just cause its a good answer to sigilyph and has a very spammable knock off move. Alomomola overall can switch into basically any choiced user move and scout what move they do for very limited repercussion.

Here are two examples of how easily it is for mola to take advantage of choice locked pokemon: - In this replay you can see that even tho he predicts with scarf emboar on my Alomomola correctly, he loses all his momentum due to the giant wishes provided by Mola (See Turns 22-24) - This is another example of Mola make choice pokemon a liability and just shows how easily it is to scout the choiced pokemon and provide momentum for the Mola team. (See turns 10, 15)

Instead of just attacking the Mola you can also choose to status it but this has its own problems. If your choosing to run toxic on things like flygon, emboar, etc. you are foregoing other utility or coverage moves just for dealing with Mola. There are also quite a few heal bellers that pair nicely with Mola such as Diancie, Uxie, and Granbull. And as you toxic the mola you again give the momentum back to the Mola user which makes it easily abusable.

For Case 2 you try to punish the mola by constantly putting good type advantage and keeping your momentum. This case basically again comes down to the Non-mola user having to predict correctly in fear of being punished. This is most notable with cb flygon spamming u-turn vs Mola teams. The Non-Mola user has to make all the correct predictions while the mola user goes to mola for basically free. And even if flygon does predict and u-turn vs mola, the mola team has enough defensive synergy to handle the offensive pressure put against it. And even if the team gets low one misplay or free wish from Mola can basically make that offensive pressure you put on previously useless.

I fucking hate writing and im pretty shit at making clear, concise thoughts so heres a TL;DR bullet point of my main points.
  • Mola basically destroys the opponents momentum thanks to its combination of very good bulk/typing/strong wishes and regenerator.
  • It can make choiced mons, especially scarf users who cant hurt mola at all, a liability vs mola teams.
  • It pigeon holes pokemon into spamming u-turn in fear of giving Mola opportunites of free moves.
  • Mola can punish team in a variety of ways both early game (via knock off/scald burns) and late game (by providing massive wishes). As well as not as popular sets like mirror coat beating things that are supposed to counter ie. Defensive Venusaur
  • Basically puts all the prediction on the side of the non-mola user because the mola user can just go to mola without any severe repercussions
  • Mola makes people run sub optimal sets specifically for mola (random toxic mons, subPuP seismitoad, subtoxic flygon, etc.)
I fucking hate making posts but i guess this is only way i can convey my thoughts on this mon. I mean for christ sake at least give a suspect for it. FUCK LONG POSTS ALL IM ASKING FOR IS A SUSPECT TEST NOT EVEN A BAN.

Heres a game where Alomomola basically single handidly wins me the game -

Tagging ru council members so they actually read this: Spirit SilentVerse Molk DTC 49 Scythe. Arifeen atomicllamas Meru

Edit: Apparently people don't like the statement of how I said alomomola makes choiced mons, epecially scarf users, liabilities when playing vs Mola teams. Theres a reason no one runs scarf flygon or basically any scarf mon that isnt drapion. Just to help better illustrate my point, here is a list of games where my opponent has scarf mons. Try to watch how useless their scarfer/choiced mon becomes because of Alomomola. - Rotom-c is the scarfer - magneton and flygon are both choiced - I already used this replay before but both emboar and flygon are choiced - Emboar is choiced. Also i didnt mention how Mola basically makes weather/TR teams unplayable as seen in the replay. - Doesnt really show making choiced user useless but still shows power of Mola.
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Battle Soul
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Going away a bit from Alomomola for a moment, I wanted to focus on a really neat set that kind of goes under the radar because of another really good set this Pokemon has:

Braviary @ Sky Plate
Ability: Defiant
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Superpower
- Roost
- Frustration / Return

Considering how common Defog Flygon is and the fact it rarely ever carries a move to touch Braviary with, Roost + 3 Attacks Braviary is really fun. It obviously will have its issues against faster teams, but it will still usually pick up a kill against those teams. Where it really gets mileage though is against bulky offense and balance teams. While it being strong against balance teams isn't a huge deal due to SubBU sets doing just fine against those teams, this Braviary's performance against bulky offense is notable as it is able to quickly remove tanks that these teams might employ. Think stuff like Escavalier, Mega Camerupt, and AV Slowking. All of these are dealt severe damage immediately that they likely won't be expecting due to how good / common the SubBU set is. If Braviary can get in on a Defog from Flygon, the opponent is just losing a Pokemon. Flat out. The right +2 move from Braviary is OHKOing virtually every Pokemon in the tier and with Sky Plate boosting the power of Brave Bird while still giving Braviary freedom to switch moves, this makes it very difficult to hold back. Pairing it with a T-Wave user like Granbull or Slowking is highly advised in order to get the most out of its potential since there's plenty of faster Pokemon that can revenge kill this set. Braviary can also spam Roost against defensive Diancie and the less common Aromatisse to fish for SpA drops from Moonblast to activate Defiant since it has enough raw bulk to take those hits, even if they crit. Obviously this set can use U-turn over Roost and a Choice Band, but I feel there are too many common, bulky Flying resists in the tier and Sky Plate / Sharp Beak can not only let Braviary power through bulky Pokemon, but also catch stuff like Registeel and Rhyperior (if at +2 at least) for severe damage to help something else out. Pokemon like Jolteon, Fletchinder, and Aerodactyl can easily pick up kills with the likes of Registeel, Rhyperior, and Alomomola heavily weakened or outright KOed. Also, don't be afraid to throw out Frustration / Return to start. Try to preserve Braviary's HP so that you can unleash Brave Bird at +2 or when the target is dropped into KO range. This also keeps you from having to Roost quite as much and many of RU's common offensive tanks are either 2HKOed by Frustration, or 2HKOed by Frustration followed by Brave Bird.

+2 252 Atk Braviary Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 352-416 (96.7 - 114.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Braviary Return vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 385-454 (117 - 137.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Sky Plate Braviary Brave Bird vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Alomomola: 421-496 (84 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Braviary Superpower vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 300-354 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Sky Plate Braviary Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 158-186 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

UNBOOSTED vs. offensive tanks

252 Atk Sky Plate Braviary Brave Bird vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 217-256 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Braviary Return vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 77-91 (25.4 - 30%) -- 3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Sky Plate Braviary Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Camerupt: 226-267 (80.4 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Braviary Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Camerupt: 160-189 (56.9 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Sky Plate Braviary Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 271-321 (68.9 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Braviary Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 193-228 (49.1 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Lord Death Man

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I've been using different variants of 3 attacks + roost Braviary for like a year now, and I generally agree with everything EonX said. 80 speed + recovery is already fantastic, it has good bulk, and amazing coverage. The popularity of SubBU mean that very very few people feel confident switching in Alomomola versus it, especially if you opt to run lefties over Sky Plate, which is imo a viable choice right now (eases matchup versus quite a bit without hurting your damage all that bad). Great mon, worth looking into.

Don Honchkrorleone

Happy Qwilfish the nightmare
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Tired of that "balanced" Pokémon ruining your fun?

Fuck U Mola (Cacturne) (M) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 68 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch

The premise is simple: Come after Mola do something that in theory would ruin your fun. A predicted Scald works wonderfully. It's also good against stuff like non-coverage Slowking, Blastoise (EVs are to outspeed uninvested shitoise, but you can go all max Atk/Spe if you want) and Seismitoad. Sucker Punch, especially boosted by Black Glasses, is strong as F*CK and while under a sub you can try to do some crazy stuff like 2HKO NON-DEFENSIVE EMBOAR, DRAPION, VIRIZION, AND MORE SHIT THAT RESIST AND COULD KO BACK, IF NOT BEHIND A SUB. Not to mention shit it can OHKO at +2 such as offensive Venusaur, non-Eviolite Magneton, Houndoom and more!

Of course, Cacturne's STABs are less than perfect when talking about coverage. Have something that can pick off Ice Shard users like Emboar or Hariyama (who can also deal with Registeel; and a good bulky Rock/Steel-type to deal with Fletchinder, Granbull, Drapion and Golbat such as Registeel or Magneton. Cacturne is also a great partner to mons that need desperately Alomomola (and other Water-ypes) out of the way, and see Cacturne shine at the match. Due to SP's nature, some Spikes are also cool since the threat of the Datk-type STAB forces a lot of switches.

So the question remains, there are infinite Dark-types, especially one with the same type combination but faster and with Defog in Shiftry, so why use Cacturne? Simple: ALOMOMOLA. Cacturne knows like no one else how to make Mola its personal bitch. No Scald burn, no bad poison (if predicting correctly), Knock Off that can't break its Sub (again, prediction and it hampers the power of Sucker Punch if the item is lost), Mirror Coat being useless, and most important, NO SCALD BURN!!!

That being said, I agree with Double01's positions, especially regarding the momentum vacuum-role, that Alomomola should be at least suspected. Maybe an unofficial ladder without Alomomola to see the impact of its absence in RU. It's a bit obvious that we will never be forced to run Cacturne (try tho, it's AMAZING) and SubPUP stuff, but it's worth discussing. I would like to see the community's position regarding it (cancer fish, not Cacturne) though, if possible :]
Here's a Pokemon me and Kushalos have been experimenting and revealed some nice results:

Aurorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Since Alomomola, Registeel, and Braviary are getting more and more common, Sub CM Aurorus is pretty good, it can set up on Registeel and Alomomola making them setup fodders, while boosted Hyper Voice does a lot to any Pokemon. Moreover, it hits 400+ HP so Registeel won't be much of an issue, and HP Fire is chosen over something like Earth Power, is because Bronzong pretty much walls this Pokemon otherwise. Obviously, you need some damage on Registeel first before setting up with Aurorus, because Registeel can still ultimately beat Aurorus by spamming Seismic Toss. A good partner to Aurorus would be Defensive Knock Off Venusaur, as it can lure Registeel and knock its Leftovers, making it less susceptible to beating Aurorus 1v1 (Knock Venu actually beats Registeel 1v1, even Thunder Wave sets but that's pretty annoying). Venusaur also complements Aurorus by crippling other Pokemon such as Bronzong and acting as a decent Fighting resist (keep in mind I'm talking about Defensive Venusaur). If you're not too keen on using this set, you could also try this one:

Aurorus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Dark Pulse

This set is used by 49 in one of his team, it does the same purpose, but has even more offensive presence than the first set. Ben had a custom EV spread, but I'm not sharing hat because he might not be okay with it. Specs Hyper Voice beats Braviary easily, and investing some Speed is okay, especially enough for outspeeding Alomomola, where Freeze Dry can 2HKO easily. Earth Power is used to dent Registel and Dark Pulse is for Bronzong. Obviously, having Dugtrio in the tier limits the viability of Aurorus (Dugtrio seems pretty unhealthy, but more on that later), but Aurorus is still a neat Pokemon to choose if you have trouble with Waters and Birdspam.

e @ below: I was hiding the spread cuz I didn't ask you yet idiot
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Thats the wrong spread lol

Aurorus @ Leftovers
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 88 HP / 40 Def / 196 SpA / 68 SpD / 116 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

Lives uxie psyshock and mola scald with sub. Speed is for max speed base 40s cb rhyperior etc spatk hits jump point. Also the main reason for hp fire is escavalier but yeah it makes you not walled completely by zong. Freeze dry w/ snow warning is also an option for better coverage and weather chipping at walls, but you lose out on a lot of power and the ability to hit braviary through its sub.
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Ok, guess I gotta try to revive this. Interesting Aurorus sets but I honestly prefer having all the speed possible on aurorus for certain annoying stuff like Alomomola and Blastoise plus some defensive venusaurs benchmarks which I why I think it is worth having max speed on it. FFS, there is no excuse to run sky plate/sharp beak when braviary needs all the power it can get plus has the recovery to patch potential recoil issues. It having of a wallbreaker alone means it doesnt need the longevity for anything >:(

Now to try to respond to that Alomomola post, I really gotta congratulate Double01 on the formatting and general explanation of his post cause honestly thats one of the most insightful posts I have ever seen on my not-so-long Smogon Career (pffffttt). Anyways, I certainly agree with many of the points provided and I also think Mola is unhealthy on the point it is basically impossible to punish Alomomola from what I can do and it can certainly dictate momentum throughout the match. There are certainly ways to take advantage of Mola huge passivity through grass types and setup sweepers that use substitute as a mean to use status but it is, as said, impossible to punish Mola for providing its infamous support in Wish and literally not needing the huge ass wishes itself thanks to Regenerator. Wish + Regenerator is an insane combination that actually makes me consider Alomomola, easily, the best Wish passer in the game. And it really shows in other tiers even but thats besides the point.

Lets go from the teambuilding perspective here. There is obviously a thousand ways to take advantage of Mola as mentioned before, but Mola alone. When you consider the potential teammates Mola can provide the wish support and basically cut down your momentum dry when they go to their grass resist, electric immunity and what not. Choice item users like Magneton, Rotom-Cut, Sawk and basically every scarfer ever struggles with Mola thanks to the ability to scout with protect and ability to switch out unpunished thanks to Regenerator. Assuming 2 competent players, the Mola user will generally be able to put himself in a position to win with it since Alomomola teams pack answers to Mola answers like Registeel, Weezing for Venusaur. Flygon or other steel resist for Magneton, etc, etc. And it is ridiculous the amount of times I have seen an Alomomola alone win against 3 Pokemon.

Now, lets talk about suspect potential. Lets start with the fact that defensive Pokemon are extremely challenging to send through a suspect test if the idea is there because it is easier for a Pokemon to be overwhelming on the offensive side (having the means to destroy its checks, no switch-ins, etc, etc) instead of defensively. The situations where this happen are extremely uncommon to the point only 1 or 2 Pokemon got banned by it (Sableye comes to mind, actually banned from this tier at the start of XY). Gligar was unhealthy but it was necessary evil for the tier at the time but in the end it moved up and the rest is story. Mola is certainly controversial cause while it isnt Sableye levels or Gligar levels in terms of being basically mandatory, it is absurdly effective at what it does and you can certainly see that on fucking Mola vs Mola matchups, worse type of games you can ever see in ORAS RU. There is a certain degree of Mola unhealthiness for the tier but right now I dont know if that cause of Mola alone.

As said there are probably more agents to the general perceived "unhealthiness" of the tier...


As many know, Im more from the side of "dugtrio is broken, pls ban it" instead of the Mola side but I do believe that these 2 share so many things in common that make some games rather frustrating. The massive increase of usage Dugtrio has suffered in the last couple of months have maked taking care of Mola an incredibly challenging task cause guess what, many Pokemon that could take advantage of Mola or do more than beat Mola then get walled by something else (Virizion gets trapped and killed, Magneton dies if it isnt Sturdy which means it dont have the power to punish switch-ins cause it is not running Analytic, Life orb Delphox becomes useless when you consider Dugtrio presence, Houndoom... thats not just dugtrio fault but there is also that, SD Lum Drapion since if you arent shuca you are dead basically, etc, etc) and I think by consequence Mola becomes more problematic. This isnt exact by any means but is my impression from seeing many games and my personal experience with Dugtrio, pokemon that keeps screwing me over.

In conclusion, I think 1 of the 2 Pokemon has to go through a suspect procedure honestly, in my opinion. Without Mola you dont basically have to overprepare for it with only stuff like Jellicent and Rotom can take advantage of it but still fear toxic, or without Dugtrio where preparing for Mola would become exceedingly easier to handle without Dugtrio punishing you from the teambuilder.

The community can decide. Anyways, I think this should do. Really hope Im not too late for this but I really was figuring out how to respond to that amazing post. Kudos to d01

For real tho, Life orb > Sky Plate Braviary 200% of the time.



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The main reason why I'd lean Alomomola over Dugtrio is that you can repeat the same process with similar support mons. Take Drapion for instance. It traps and beats Meloetta, Sigilyph, LO Delphox if Scarf, potentially Hoopa and depending on the set, punishes Jellicent. It absorbs Toxic and handles threatening grass types comfortably. Of course here I took another potential trapping mon, but unlike Dugtrio, it can come in on some threats and benefit from those huge wishes.

Anything I'd add would just be echoing the points made far more eloquently by Double01 and MrAldo, but my main concern regarding Mola is how very easy it is for it to support the next mon coming in either by Wish, scouting, or forcing a specific matchup, and how nearly impossible it is to punish it for it.
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