★ np: SS UU Stage 11.1 - Kingslayer

[Monky25]

Mystras Leoxses you won



To me, Galarian Moltres is by far the most unhealthy and constricting Pokemon in the tier and I would like it to be suspected and banned. I always meme on Galarian Moltres for being reliant on flinches and Hurricane to win at times, which I still do believe, but my main issue with it is its presence in the teambuilder. Out of all the Pokemon I generally consider parts of the tier (being B+ and up) only chansey can truly defensively answer it, though even then it loses to certain Rest variants. Primarina is generally solid though it can't eat too many boosted Hurricanes, but it does to heavy damage back so it's also a good check. Nihilego and Celesteela work, but they're very susceptible to getting worn down by other Pokemon and flinches. This has led to an issue where I personally feel if I don't have one of these 4 Pokemon my team insta-loses to Galarian Moltres given it gets setup, which it will. In this tier where we have to cover many top threats like Scizor, Zygarde-10%, Thundurus, and Aegislash, Galarian Moltres just restricts building far too much to the point where we are better off banning it, especially since it can still beat 3/4. I don't intend to overly criticize the most recent post but the implications are just heavily wrong. Morpeko is useable at best and I can't describe what it is at worse. Diancie is viable, albeit C rank and the only reason you really run it over the otherwise superior Nihilego is the Galarian Moltres matchup. Hydreigon counts but it just clicks U-turn and gives many Pokemon free entry to abuse the lack of recovery. The fact I have to use a genuine inferior Nihilego just for this one Pokemon further attests to its unhealthiness.

While Galarian Moltes does need some turns of setup, I really don't find it hard to do. Dark + Flying is stupidly good defensively in addition to being offensively, and it can get free setup on the following: Aegislash, Amoonguss, Slowking, Zarude, Tangrowth, Salamence, Kanto Moltres, some Excadrill, sometimes Thundurus, Mandibuzz, Azelf, Scarf Hydreigon, Skarmory, Rotom-W, Azelf, Hatterene, the list goes on. It's great bulk means it has to be chipped via multiple forms of priority or status to take it out, so even if you do kill it, Moltres just takes half the team with it. With sitrus berry techs you don't even need Nasty Plot due to the multiple berserk boosts it offers. Overall, I firmly believe Galarian Moltres is the most hindersome Pokemon in the tier, it restricts teambuilding far too much and can easily take games with its sweeping potential. Banning it will certainly make the metagame far better and I 100% support doing so.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

I never found of moltres-g of all things to be unhealthy I can support zygarde-10%, I can support aegislash but I can never get behind a moltres-g suspect... ive built teams without even accounting it in the builder and they end up fine vs it against ladder and usually that is the place where you have to be suprised... hurricane is unreliable and no pokemon pretty much gives it free setup opportunity even pokemon that could give it free setup. in /uupl-x-replays-and-usage-stats these are the stats of some pokemon

| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Tangrowth | 60 | 31.58% | 53.33% |
| 2 | Aegislash | 57 | 30.00% | 50.88% |
| 3 | Nihilego | 53 | 27.89% | 56.60% |
| 4 | Thundurus-Therian | 47 | 24.74% | 59.57% |
| 5 | Cobalion | 44 | 23.16% | 45.45% |
| 6 | Zarude | 43 | 22.63% | 37.21% |
| 7 | Zygarde-10% | 40 | 21.05% | 52.50% |
| 8 | Amoonguss | 38 | 20.00% | 60.53% |
| 9 | Salamence | 37 | 19.47% | 35.14% |
| 10 | Hydreigon | 36 | 18.95% | 63.89% |
| 11 | Mandibuzz | 31 | 16.32% | 61.29% |
| 12 | Swampert | 30 | 15.79% | 70.00% |
| 12 | Moltres-Galar | 30 | 15.79% | 33.33% |
| 14 | Skarmory | 27 | 14.21% | 59.26% |
| 14 | Chansey | 27 | 14.21% | 55.56% |

Out of these pokemon only skarm, swampert, tang, and zarude can truly give it free setup and even then skarm can just WW it back out, body press still hurts, swampert can toxic, or flip turn out. So that prtty much leaves 2 pokemon that give it true setup aka tang and zarude. If moltres-g goes for the NP boost you can easily force it to kill smth and bring a pokemon back in to revenge it since without an agility boost it rarely outpeeds most teams at all unless ur main speed control is soley azelf and scarf rude that are the only pokemon faster than it. If you go for the agility boost first sure u may be at +2 speed +1 sp. attack but even then at +1 you do not really ohko much especially neutral targets and most of them need to be worn down heavily. I just do not find it broken or unhealthy at all consiering the 2 turns of setup it needs and how worn down the opponents team need to be for it to claim many kills at +1 and at +3 it unlikely has a speed boost and if you have given it that many turns then idk ... it seems like you prob deserved to lose if you gave it that many turns of setup... and if you did not it can easily be revenge killed and it is unlikely to one man sweep a team on its own.

Obv i can be very dumb rn and this could just be "haha ladder experience means jack shit" but that is what i have to say.... I just believe ladder of all places where u have to prepare for most threats and moltres-g is one of those mons i rarely account in the builder yet still do well and ladder is the place where it can catch you off guard with anything.

 

[udongirl]

I think gmolt needs to be banned but the reason is not it is broken.
The main problem of this mon is flinch. It seems weird to ban a pokemon because of 20% flinch. However, we also have celesteela and it means HO has the 44% chance to flinch without using weak pokemon.
In most cases we don't have stable check to them, so we always struggle with 44% lose risk.
Gmolt usually comes after the death, so it‘s impossible to stop setting up. Although you may stop gmolt with toxic and priority, you have already lost a pokemon to toxic gmolt.
Morpeko may be viable but it definitely can't be considerable on every teams. Same thing can say to diancie.
I believe golt will be banned. Idt others have to be suspected. Im thinking zydog is weak and scizor is too early to suspect.

 

[Totomon]

People are discussing them answers of the survey so I'll chime in cus I got some things to say especially regarding the mons questioned about.

Talking about them potential bans, Ive always thought that Goltres was a bit too silly, with the many troubles against HO that we have had through the months, Goltres has always sticked out to me as a big problem just after shit like clanger. It can be very bs-y with its hax, its very bulky, can boost a lot fast and there isn't anything its really stonewalled by unlike other sweepers so its just out of the bat a very good mon.
A mon with (IMO) only 3 real defensive answers which are very haxable is a bit sus especially when u also beat offense and fit in a high octane playstyle like HO so those defensive answers don't have a lot of room to breathe. A while ago i defo would've said it was broken, I'm not 100% sold rn due to us having an incredibly big amount of priority and generic bulky mons™ (and thundurus), which one can easily chip gmolt for the other one to pick off but at the end of they day gmolt can almost always claim 1 kill if you don't have one of Nihi, Chans and Spdef Rina which can be seen as problematic. So i voted that I wouldn't be opposed to a test and I say that it should (probably) be banned.

Out of these pokemon only skarm, swampert, tang, and zarude can truly give it free setup

Something I wanna note is that outta that list Goltres can also setup to different extents in the face of Hydreigon, Aegislash, Mandibuzz, Amoonguss and Salamence. They all can kind of do something but a worse mu than swampert most of these have imo.

Tryna be brief with this one, zygod is fine and I do not support a suspect test. I actually feel that this shift has made it much more worse, pretty much the addition of hippo sciz adds 2 incredibly strong checks (one of which cant even be overwhelmed by coverage) in addition to the alr solid repertoire of tang, mandi, king, bulu (in addition to the bunch of mons that u don't inmediately threaten). Not only this but the metagame isn't favoring it i feel, SD + KS Aegis as one of its best partners has pretty much faded out, people actually use faster mons than it so 115 isn't overwhelming (Inteleon and Crobat) and its mu against hyper offensive teams is worse w the developments of Cloyster, Scizor and speed boosters. Mon isn't garbage ofc and I believe it brings good traits to the tier like a splashable general speed control and offensive threat that its managable.

Tbh I am not too sure about scizor myself, its very new and opinions can change wildly as this meta is very diff from the last time we saw it in the tier. I think its fine mostly, the mon just pairs so incredibly well with a lot of fellas, I feel there are like 10 mons I've heard about that "beat every scizor check" and that's just its nature when u have broken moves. Its set diversity isn't really a big deal, unlike aegis or clanger which become basically completely diff mons scizor just occasionally changes its moves to slightly try a different approach in the way u use it. And you know standard flaws of the sets, 3atk + Roost has no sweep potential, Knock + SD no momentum and it becomes very predictable around stuff it should beat like Tang and Hippo and U Turn + SD flops into steels, limiting its ability to actually sweep. CB and the HO sets are fine but nothing really to go crazy over, In general I feel its balanced but I wouldn't really oppose a suspect so I voted yes.

Now finally to the unbans, and this is the part where I really wish there were some more neutral options to vote LMAO. To summarize a bit I think that both Latias and Arctozolt deserve some consideration but I don't have an opinion formed yet, mainly because they have some greatly exploitable flaws which could make em balanced. Latias really flops after dropping one draco and when we have so many incredibly popular mons that force to click it (Tang and Nihi skyrocketing, Hippo arriving) ,now not only does it have to predict much more but its forced to roost and retreat too (I was a bit on the fence last test and sand chips this plane to oblivion). And well Arcto has many half checks but it can be very prediction reliant even with sub and yknow u gotta use Vanilluxe + we actually have weather to contest its snowy parade. The meta has changed a lot since they were banned, the bans of shao and clanger free the builder while the 2 drops can combat em sorta reliably, they might deserve some more looking IMO. (+ They both might bring very positive and interesting attributes to the tier)

Terrak is very silly tho, it doesn't have any real flaws or compromises it makes and just destroys all of the half checks it has, Lycandog but the things that wall it actually don't and u only need 3 moves. I really don't feel it fits in the tier tbh.