Metagame NP: Stage 8 - Coming Down (Inteleon & Snorlax Banned)

[Rabia]

NU just got a million new Pokemon:

Flamigo moved from RU to NUBL
Ambipom moved from RU to NU
Arcanine moved from RU to NU
Braviary-Hisui moved from RU to NU
Decidueye-Hisui moved from RU to NU
Dipplin moved from RU to NU
Gallade moved from RU to NU
Grafaiai moved from RU to NU
Mudsdale moved from RU to NU
Ninetales moved from RU to NU
Scream Tail moved from RU to NU
Shiftry moved from RU to NU
Sylveon moved from RU to NU
Tauros-Paldea-Aqua moved from RU to NU
Toedscruel moved from RU to NU
Tsareena moved from RU to NU
Umbreon moved from RU to NU
Wo-Chien moved from RU to NU

Expect tiering action of various kinds this weekend. Until then, enjoy the chaos and talk about what you've been having fun using!

 

[Shinto7654]

Being able to finally use Gallade has been wonderful. I'm like, 50/50 on whether it'll be booted out in the first set of tiering action, or it'll slip under the massively broken shit, but i'm having fun nonetheless. Right now I have Agility on it, but I'm actually thinking of maybe trying out Swords dance just because of all the stall teams running around right now

Screamtail is an utter fucking menace that refuses to die, Encore's all your shit, Keeps it and the rest of your team healthy with Wish, and can even just Twave to further drive home that you're in its house now. I'm not seeing this thing surviving the first set of tiering action at all, and it'll stay in NUBL for awhile at least after DLC2 drops

Wo-Chien is pretty damn annoying, but i also kind of want to see how things shake out if we get rid of the extra super egregious shit like Screamtail and Ninetales first. Still, not gonna be surprised if it gets booted into BL and not gonna particularly miss it either lol. Will suck to going back to having no Great Dark-types again though if that happens

I think once shit settles down, i'll see what fun times I can have with Hisui Braviary since I think it'll be good or even great once thc chaos hgas subsisded

 

[Steamroll]

I'm sure y'all are going to handle it I just find it funny that the tier currently permits Ninetales but doesn't permit Vulpix.

 

[Rabia]

no, we will NOT be handling this and you WILL continue to cope and seethe over it

 

[Shinto7654]

no, we will NOT be handling this and you WILL continue to cope and seethe over it

So you're saying I should spam Bulk Up Scream Tail and see how many cheesy wins I can get with it?

 

[Team Rocket]

Finally a tier leader that wants to see the world burn.

 

[Rabia]

The NU council voted on the entirety of what is currently listed NUBL (this does NOT count anything that rose to RU or higher from NUBL) due to how drastic our shifts were:

As a result:

• Brute Bonnet
• Delphox
• Flamigo
• Frosmoth
• Inteleon
• Meloetta
• Oricorio
• Oricorio Pom-Pom
• Oricorio Sensu
• Slowbro-Galar
• Snorlax
• Tornadus
• Toxtricity
• Venomoth
• Vulpix
• Zoroark

are all unbanned! Kris Marty at your convenience

 

[Shinto7654]

Well, this was a thing to wake up to for sure lol. Guess gallade is at least safe for a decent while because we sure as fuck have a whole lot of other shit to worry about. Curious if HO will manage to somehow claw its way back into being good and relevant, or is it still gonna be Stall and teams meant to break Stall + also Sun teams are the hip new thing for the forseeable future

 

[Shagg51]

Hey guys! I’ve played quite a bit of NU already this month and am ready to share my initial thoughts before tiering action happens. I will talk about the new drops, the unbans, and old pokemon that I think are still good. Without further or due, let’s get into it!

I was PUMPED to use this thing when I saw it dropped and I think it’s pretty good! It has a very strong extreme speed, hits even harder with flare blitz, and can support its team with intimidate and wisp. On top of this, it has morning sun, so it isn’t reliant on wish for its longevity. It gets overpowered by the more powerful new residents like gallade, but I can see this thing being really solid once the meta settles.

I’m surprised I’m about to say this, but it’s not bad? I haven’t used it much, but it feels quite threatening with its fake outs, especially when I’m playing offensive teams. It can 2hko most offensive pokemon with fake out and it has knock and u turn for utility. It’s not the best mon out there, but it’s better than I expected. Regardless of how it ages, ladder will probably keep it here for a looong time.

I’m not impressed. This isn’t to say it’s bad, but I feel like it struggles to compete in the current meta, where there are stronger and faster pokemon I would rather use. Once the meta settles, however, I could see this giving Galarian articuno some fierce competition.

I’m running it on my current balance team and I quite like it as a defogger. It definitely has 4MSS(It really wants to fit roost and knock on the same set, but it can decide based on what the team already has), but I still enjoy using it. Triple arrows is a hilarious move with 1 million side effects and it packs up pretty much anything slower than it. Pretty cool Mon overall and I’m interested in how this will stack up compared to standard decidueye.

it can absorb knock. That’s it. It’s a neat wo chien check ig.

Busted. Just straight up busted. Sharpness boosted sacred sword cleaves through a good chunk of the tier. Even mudsdale doesn’t like switching in on a gallade that hasn’t been confirmed to be scarf, and even then, sacred sword 3hko’s so gallade can just come back later to finish the job. Having to decide between aqua cutter for gligar or poison jab for scream tail is probably the only think keeping it around. Definitely getting banned later down the line.

I haven’t seen this fella a lot, but it looks like it’ll be solid as a support pokemon. Prankster parting shot and encore are really solid tools it has access to and It definitely isn’t passive(gunk shot STINGS). Rain definitely appreciates this pickup too.

Does gligar have competition?!?!?!?!

in all seriousness, mudsdale is shaping up to be a really solid pokemon overall. It has less utility than gligar, but hits much harder while also being able to run leftovers. I think it’s about as good, if not slightly less good than gligar, but I can see this being a staple on balance.

Sun is ridiculous rn and ninetales is definitely getting drought banned. Once it does, it’ll probably be ass. I don’t see why anyone would use this over Salazzle or delphox. Maybe it’ll find a niche in pu as a fire type with nasty plot? I’ll have to compare it to houndoom, but there’s potential.

really, REALLY dumb Mon. It’s SO fast. It’s SO bulky. It has 1 million different sets it can try and every one of them will piss me off. I do not like this thing’s presence in the meta at all, and will probably leave after the first wave of bans.

absolute DEMON in the sun, but I don’t think it’ll be very useful after the drought ban. Disuading bleakwinds from tornadus is cool until it decides to click u turn and blow you up. If this had spikes, I could see it being a pretty cool lead on offensive teams, but I’m doubtful of its success later down the line currently.

feels like a direct upgrade to florges honestly. It even has psyshock to muscle through chansey. I know sylveon and florges shared ru for a while, so maybe they could coexist here too.

really awesome drop. Choice band aqua jet is super cool and the bulk up sets can COOK. Definitely shaping up to be a top tier threat!

downright disappointing. I feel like this Mon is constantly walking on eggshells trying to switch in and just can’t accomplish much once it does. Negative priority spore has some cool implications(like guaranteeing a sleep turn for your switch in to apply pressure a la RBY tauros), but it just feels so clunky. Negative priority spikes drives me insane too. If we get espeon, this would probably be a lot better as a Mon that can set up spikes on it.

Soooo good! This has all of the utility I want out of a spinner! Knock off? Check! U-turn? Check! A strong stab move? Check! It’s awesome and it’s going to become a staple of balance teams.

I like umbreon a lot as a defensive wish passer. It can pass them consistently and cleanly and has toxic to threaten switch ins. Not much to say here. Just a really good Mon.

this drop should have never happened. This is a massive pick up for stall and definitely worth using Tera on when you need to. This guy is guaranteed to make progress and it’s genuinely infuriating. Like scream tail, I can see this leaving after the initial bans. If it doesn’t, it better rise back up to ru because it’s actually good there.

brute bonnet will be to NU what kingambit is to ou. Sucker punch hits really hard and it has other good moves to boot. Spore isn’t a bad option, but I generally just stick with its strong attacks. Could be a good option though.

the first pokemon I won’t really comment on. I haven’t seen enough from delphox to construct a good opinion on it. It’s probably quite good though.

Scarf is broken. That’s it. That’s my analysis.

like delphox, I haven’t seen enough from Frosmoth to form a solid opinion. It’ll probably be fine though.

252 SpA Sniper Tera Water Inteleon Snipe Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scream Tail on a critical hit: 342-405 (78.8 - 93.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

PU at best.

I tried pirouette, and its really fun, but hard to make use of. Aria faces competition with NU’s plethora of psychic types, but I can see it being solid overall.

I haven’t seen baile at all, sensu is shaping up to become a strong threat, and Pom Pom is busted and steals games regularly.

honestly really dumb. Regenerator sets are a pain to deal with and quick draw sets are just downright unfun to fight. Likley getting banned, but who knows. It doesn’t feel like a priority atm.

MY GOAT!!!!!!!! I’m LOVING snorlax rn. It’s so strong, so bulky, and so fun to build with. It’s not the best Mon in the world, but it’s DAMN good and I can see it being a top tier threat once the meta stablizes.

I haven’t been too impressed by it, but I’m probably just using it wrong. This definitely has potential to get banned and can easily wreak havoc on unprepared teams. Nasty plot is really cool, and so is specs.

really good, but I don’t think it’s broken. Specs has potential to thrash a ton, but it’s not that fast or that bulky and it’s missing some power if it’s using scarf. I am aware shift gear sets exist, but I haven’t ran into any shift gear toxes yet.

complete and utter menace to society. The fact that this Mon was banned back in February and is still busted despite the massive jump in power between these 10 months is insane. Tinted lens with quiver dance just makes it way too strong and sleep powder messes up a ton of checks. Another w the the bl goat.

genuinely really fun to build with. I’m currently experimenting with swords dance sets that aim to lure in special defenders and wreak havoc, but I haven’t been finding too much success and the rest of the team has to pull its weight. I don’t think zoroark itself is bad, but I’ll probably need to try out nasty plot to make the most of it.

man, this took a while to complete! I’ll talk about older mons tomorrow most likley, but I’m gonna take a break from typing now. Until next time!

 

[Phantomistix]

We have no switchins. Can run CB, Scarf, SD and be effective in every matchup. Add to that the fact Zoroark's back in the tier and you have a recipe for disaster. No brainer ban.

Another easy ban decision imo. Again, we have no switchins, especially when you add tera. The 3 sets I've used are scarf, specs and HDB, and it never fails to make progress in any matchup. Amazing speed tier and a very strong special attack stat. Also a very good partner for Zoroark.

Very problematic mon but I don't think we should ban it just yet. Its 2 best partners are Flamigo and Inteleon, and both would be broken with or without Zoroark in the tier and are deserving of a ban. I'd like to see this mon without Flamigo and Inteleon in the tier and then make a decision.

BAN

 

[turtledoggo1]

Played a lot of games and have really been enjoying the tier! It reminds me of SSNU nostalgia when the DLCS dropped (Like Sigilyph era). Honestly, it is not as unbalanced as I initially thought, and actually I find building/playing to be really fun. Nothing seems too strikingly overbearing in the games I've played. Though also, I don't know if that's a symptom of just a new meta. Anyways, here are some thoughts on some mons (mostly whatever comes to mind)

--These two have been most irritating in the games I've played so far, though I'm hesitant to advocate for a QB for either. Toxtricity is quite squishy and hard to get onto the field, especially with the hazard situation this generation. Also, it's not * that * difficult to scout nor revenge kill, so quite tentative on how I feel about it. Inteleon is similar. There's not that many sturdy water resists, but at the same time, I feel like it's not that difficult to manage. There's one time answers like Tauros-Aqua, Goodra, and Tatsugiri. Which, while can't switch in really often, is the same said for Inteleon too imo. It's also so frail, so anything can easily revenge/ chip it off. Still, it's hard to deny how polarizing they can be sometimes.

--- Fightings! I love how much selection and variety there is currently. Starting with Flamigo, I do love this mon sm! Apart from last time when like... was houndstone our only check? It feels much less polarizing than before. With more sturdy defensive backbones (Scream Tail, G-bro, Oricorio, Mudsdale), it hasn't felt as taxing to try and check. Gallade too, it feels naturally pretty easy to meanuver around/revenge/wear down. Wouldn't be surprised if Flamigo especially is still considered overwhelming, since end game cleanups are pretty easy for it. Still, feels, okay to me so far.

The Tauros forms are also so nice for building. Between the versatility, Tauros form itself, and leverage it provides with typing, speed, intimidate, etc... makes it flow so nicely during battle. I personally prefer Aqua variant, and I've liked a core + Oricorio-Pom Pom which has been working well.

--- My jaw dropped seeing Scream Tail and Wo-Chien fall into the tier but honestly... all of them haven't been as bad as I thought. I won't speak too much on Wo-Chien actually, since I haven't actually seen it too much. But I more often gravitate to Umbreon in building as a bulky Dark-type. Scream Tail is annoying, though it's so passive and can be wittled down quite easily ime. Snorlax is dangerous, it can certainly snowball out of hand very quickly. Though like, between hazards, encore spam, raw power level and how many fighting-types are around, it can be a little hard to get going. So, haven't been that impressed by it so far, but we'll see I guess what happens lol.

--Haven't faced any Venomoths really but while using it, it's felt pretty good. Doesn't particularly feel overbearing though, and feels outclassed/ too much hassle ime to consider. Oricorio has been serving me so well though! I could see this being potentially banworthy down the line, just because of the ease at which it can sweep sometimes. I've mostly been relying on Toxic/ CM Fairies to take its forms out, but taunt variants are very scary lol.

--- Fast strong special attackers! Except Mismagius has felt soo underwhelming... Anyways Tornadus has such a spammy toolkit. Between Bleakwind, Knock, U-turn, other coverage, it's felt super strong and easy to use. It always feels like it's making progress and keeping up momentum.

---- Sun feels okay. I'm not sure how to describe it beyond okay, but I haven't had too much troubles dealing with it. Usually a defensive tera will be enough to sink momentum of a crucial sweeper. They usually also wear themselves down quite quickly between LO, hazards, and not really much reliable removal (that doesn't also sink momentum).

Anyways thanks for reading! None of this was really that orderly but just wanted to share some thoughts. tl:dr Nothing really stands out to me as too pulverizing in the meta, though in a week I'm sure I'll look back and flip my stance on some of these. Also, what movesets do people use on

? Feels like it carries so much potential but I'm not sure how to make it work currently. Wondering if anyone's using Grafaiai too.

 

[Perla]

Since I'm quite bored at the moment, I felt the need to talk about something random. So, considering the second DLC is on its way, I've decided to gather my thoughts on Duraludon, focusing particularly on its old sets in Generation 8 and evaluating whether Eviolite or Tera can improve them.



Duraludon was a Pokémon in PUBL, therefore usable in NU, but not a staple of the tier since other Steel types (usually used defensively) or other wallbreakers with better coverage were preferred over this dragon, which for some reason is incapable of spitting fire.
The set with Iron Defense and Body Press garnered some interest, but it wasn't enough to push it up to NU. However with Eviolite and Tera, in my opinion, this Pokémon could surpass the usage threshold. Banworthy? I don't think so. For now. But we will see...

Utility set - AV set
Duraludon learns Stealth Rock, so alongside moves like Draco Meteor and Flash Cannon (sometimes even Steel Beam), this move could be fitted in to set up hazards when attacking wasn't advantageous. Unfortunately, Duraludon's flaws remained, especially its low Special Defense. Conversely, there was also a set with Assault Vest to make up for that low stat. Here lies the complementary flaw to the SR set because if it was facing a Pokémon that couldn't be effectively scratched (usually Steel types against which you had a pitiful Thunderbolt or Body Press, but in that case, there'd be an optimization problem between Sp. Atk and Def.), you couldn't set up hazards as you were forced to use direct damage moves.
With Eviolite, these two sets can now be merged together because I can now receive the Sp. Def boost and also use status moves. Not only that: I also get a boost in physical defense as a bonus. So, definitely an improvement.

Offensive sets (nuke and coverage)
Duraludon's special attack is quite high, so one isn't forced to use just Eviolite but also old offensive sets with Choice Specs, capitalizing on powerful moves like Draco Meteor and, if you're into memes, Steel Beam. In this regard, of course, Terastallization improves everything, as now an Adaptability boost can aid its function as a wallbreaker.
However, what Duraludon might finally have is not necessarily this "nuke set" but an offensive set focused mainly on coverage (not necessarily Specs, also Eject Pack is cool): for instance, thanks to Tera, this Pokémon can finally have a Fire move (this type is quite problematic in current NU) or a Ground-type move if you want less damage from rocks and aim to hit Steel types (Bronzong and Orthworm might trouble you, although Dark Pulse can handle the former).
This will raise the level of difficulty when dealing with an opponent's Duraludon, so these changes represent significant improvements for this Pokémon.

(Pseudo)Defensive set
As mentioned earlier, there's always the more defensive set with Iron Defense/Body Press on a mon which is not even that slow. Here, in theory, both Eviolite and Tera contribute to making this set much more annoying since the item helps you withstand attacks, while this generation's mechanic allows you to troll the opponent with its usual dynamic, turning a resistance into a weakness, so you can get rid of the Pokémon that was supposed to check your Duraludon and possibly leave the opponent without tools to take down your mon. Once again, a substantial improvement compared to the previous generation.


So these are all my considerations on paper, assuming the power level of this generation isn't too far from the eighth. However, in my view, these are some of the things to evaluate in the coming days.

 

[etern]

Hi everyone, the NU Council has been discussing the new meta this past week and voted on a slate of Pokemon that have been deemed worthy of being looked at in closer detail. Here are the votes:

Votes

Slowbro-Galar and Oricorio-Pom-Pom have been banned from NU!
Marty Kris

We plan on re-examining anything that gets banned when the DLC2 Shift hits us next month, but for the time being we will continue to tier and likely conduct an additional slate next week after things have settled following these two bans. Let us know what you find problematic in the tier now and how these bans will shift the meta! See you later.[/hide]

 

[Team Rocket]

Just a quick question, why Inteleon wasn't banned?

 

[skierdude101]

Just a quick question, why Inteleon wasn't banned?

For something to be Quick Banned by council it would need a 66% majority. It received 6/10 ban votes, so it was only 1 vote shy of being banned. One of the DNB voters can give you their reasoning for voting that way, but I'll provide what I think are the DNB arguments, even though I voted ban.

• Choiced Inteleon sets can run into Water resists and immunities that severely neuter inteleon's ability to actually do damage.
• Boots sets alleviate the choice lock issues but the reduction in power is certainly felt, since if you are not killing what's in front of you, you're likely taking a big 60% hit. Scope Lens helps with this, but you're relying on chance and taking hazards chip in a fast paced meta.
• Its very frail so its not able to create many opportunities to come in on its own, it really wants a slow pivot to get it in safely on something like Gligar. These means it may not be hitting the field often, so its power on paper isn't being felt in battle.
• It has a great speed tier, but its not unrivalled. Jolteon and Electrode still outspeed and threaten it out, as do most scarfers, which we also just gained multiple new options for. There are also new priority options in the tier like Ambipom and Brute Bonnet.

 

[Rabia]

Covered my Inteleon DNB vote reasoning in a video, but I'll summarize it here:
- Too frail to not rely on significant teammate support or very aggressive play to get wallbreaking opportunities. Its offensive power does not offset this fragility enough (a la Deoxys in OU).
- The Speed is amazing but not untouchable, even ignoring Choice Scarf Pokemon entirely. Sucker Punch from Zoroark, Brute Bonnet, and Toxicroak is also common, and the latter two happen to be potential switch-ins to Inteleon's Hydro Pump too.
- Often reliant on Terastallizing to achieve the silly damage calcs people often show to bypass special walls like Sylveon, Umbreon, Chansey, Snorlax, etc.

It's a fantastic Pokemon just not banworthy yet imo

 

[Magcargo]

Not sure if this is the place to mention it, but Jolteon got a nice buff in Alluring voice. Now, it doesn't need to terstalize for fairy coverage

 

[Fragmented]

Adding on to what Magcargo mentioned, Oricorio, Lilligant and Meloetta also get Alluring Voice (and a bunch of other guys too), which is pretty nice for the first two since they have been lacking coverage. Sensu gets Ghost/Fairy coverage now, which is pretty cool (or Tera Fighting to become mini valiant), while Lilli gets to hit Goodra and Wo-Chien in 1 slot and do 20% instead of 10% now. Alluring Voice is a mini buff over Dazzling Gleam for Melo anyway.

Also faced an Alluring Voice Florges which made setting up on my end problematic, but Moonblast should usually be better.


Toxtricity and a bunch of other stuff get Psychic Noise. Tox beats Palossand and special walls much harder now by denying recovery (not Umbreon though, Tox beats it regularly), though it's only for 2 turns. Other notable mons that get it are Uxie, Scream Tail and Florges (and Mesprit I guess?), preventing stuff like Oricorio and Klefki and mirror match-ups from healing if they set up along side you.

 

[Shinto7654]

The stuff our exalted tier leaders are saying behind closed doors

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

toxtricity would be busted. If You want your set to t destroy the meta, firstly, use drain punch. It keeps You safe From chansey, umbreon and Other special walls. Plus, It is boosted bY shift gear. Then It means You have nO poison stab, You struggle with fairies. Not Really. boomburst just 2HKO them and You have litterally nO switchin that wins An actual duel with You. LO+teranorm+ boomburst is so busted. particularly in hazards stack teams.
252+ SpA Life Orb Punk Rock Tera Normal Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Florges: 265-313 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes. Yuh, I mean Hazard STACK

 

[Lilo]

A couple of meta takes:

: Between being able to spam specs punk rock boomburst or shift gear for the sweep, this mon is always a threat and banworthy.

Even though Palossand exists u can quite easily run snarl on specs sets (252 SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Snarl vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Palossand: 272-322 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

Regarding Chansey well specs or even the hdb variant can run psychic noise now, which stops recovery for 2 turns. Those turns it can’t heal just allow other special sweepers or physical mons to threaten it. When u add the spikestack seen in every other game then it becomes then it becomes hard to maintain your pink blob healthy.

Into offense the rockstar just cooks after a shift gear or with a scarf.
Being able to take at least one migo stab is also great.

Now onto offensive checks: Goodra, Soundproof H-trode, Av Melo (something i was running did decently well), Hoopa is risky due to snarl & that’s it pretty much.

Just feel like a couple of its checks are super set dependent which is a problem

(will probably edit in a bit to add some more takes)

: Very polarizing mon it seems which is surprising to me. I think it’s a solid A mon tbf.
Access to wishtect and a fast encore to not be passive while tanking most hits is such a given in this tier (blank checks so much).
Helps vs most fightings, mainly migo and tauros, being able to outspeed both if not scarf.

Has to choose between hitting poisons and fights or fights and darks depending on team composition.
It got psychic noise as well so hindering mons like chansey is always nice.

Very solid pick overall on Balance and BO builds for sure.
Btw don’t think rocks is ideal on it.

: oh are we back to ss nu?? 4MSS queen. 3atks (uturn or axel) + spin reena is really good now.

: small tech i wanted to include due to umbreon increase in usage. Sub NP with 0 attack iv and timid nature allows tatsu to sub on umbreon without fp breaking sub.
Something like surf dpulse sub np or spin over dpulse is very nice. Also make it tera ghost for chanseys.

 

[Kin+ak (✧∇✧)]

That giri set you just showed; IT'S EVIL. but fr fr dpulse> rapid spin caise giri haveing spin doesnt makes it LOVE spin when it can deal with goodra in exchange

 

[etern]

Hi all, just a quick update to let you all know we'll be voting on Inteleon , Toxtricity , and Snorlax this week. You can expect the results of this vote to be posted around Saturday night. Until then, lets get some more discussion on these three mons in particular, how do you feel about them in the current meta and what are you using for counterplay in the meantime?

 

[Punchshroom]

Ambipom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Triple Axel
- Low Kick
- Knock Off / U-turn

So Ambipom is infamous for being a Pokemon not worthy of respect due to both not being a specialized revenge killer compared to other priority users on top of flopping hard against any semblance of bulk due to reliance on mediocre Normal STAB (or just shitty Double Hit in this Generation) just for its neutral damage. Technician Triple Axel is HUGE for Ambipom; it now has the means to actually OHKO things and even threaten bulkier walls like Gligar and Drifblim for unprecedented OHKOes. Honestly Triple Axel is such a boon for Ambipom that I wouldn't even fault you for considering Wide Lens just to improve its reliability at picking up KOes, though you probably do still want to amp up your Fake Out alongside Tera Normal to actually achieve your revenge killing function.

I am begrudging to admit that for the first time since DPP, Ambipom might actually have a chance at earning its place in a tier for once. Dare I say it; I think Ambipom might just outright displace Sneasel in this format altogether since one of Sneasel's biggest advantages over Ambi has been taken over.

 

[Shagg51]

Hey guys! I’m back! With the upcoming vote on Inteleon, Toxtricity, and snorlax, I wanted to share my opinions on the three as well as some other mons that I think should be looked at.

my opinion hasn’t changed. This guy needs to go. Specs has very few defensive answers and scope lens has the potential to cheese said defensive answers. It is very frail, so scarfers like flamigo and the faster h-trode and jolteon can dispatch it, but they’re tough to bring in. Of course, the same can be said for Inteleon, who is very frail, but with pivoting partners it can chose its entry points rather comfortably. While not unstoppable, I view Inteleon as a very problematic pokemon and I would support a ban.

I take back what I said about Toxtricity in my previous post. This Mon is busted. Specs Tera normal boomburst ravages every defensive answer bar chansey, but even it can get stopped by psychic noise or a shift gear boosted drain punch. Speaking of shift gear, tox can use that to make itself much harder to check with offensive pokemon, as most can’t keep up with a +2 tox. Without shift gear, it becomes a lot easier to check offensively, but I still think Toxtricity needs to go.

Snorlax is interesting for me. It’s undeniably a very powerful curse sweeper, there’s no way around that, and Tera makes it even better at that job, allowing it to flip matchups, but the prevalence of strong fighting types like aqua tauros,flamigo, and especially gallade can make it hard for lax to get the ball rolling. Snorlax doesn’t feel like it’s on the same level as Inteleon or Toxtricity, but it still has a large impact on the meta, and I would be down for a suspect test, although the tier shifts would hit us by the time it’s done.

Now onto some other pokemon that I think are absurd:

I mentioned how busted I think venomoth was before and I stand by that. It’s far from an instant win, sleep powder can be inconsistent, and it’s very frail, but it is a horrifying breaker/cleaner. Having to choose what gets sacked to venomoth’s sleep powder is a common occurrence for me and it has very little trouble punching a hole in your team if it gets the chance. At max speed, a +1 venomoth actually speed ties flamigo, the tier’s best scarfer, and can easily put it out of commission if it wins the tie, trading at worst and killing outright with 20% chip. I might be overestimating venomoth, but I feel it is an absolute menace that should be looked at later down the line.

I have seriously cooled down on Flamigo now. It’s nowhere near as blatantly overpowered as a initially believed, but I still think this could be looked at after the big 3 are voted on. Scarf Flamigo is, without a doubt, the best scarfer in the tier, leaving the competition in the dust. It’s stab brave birds and close combats threaten a large chunk of the tier and its access to u turn allows it to pivot out of bad matchups and come back later when the conditions are more favorable. Flamigo has very practical defensive checks, most notably Mudsdale, gligar, and rocky helmet qwilfish, and although it is strong, it’s not strong enough to just blitz through whole teams with ease. Flamigo can pivot with u turn, yes, but doing so and returning when rocks are up means that you’re on a bit of a timer, especially if your spinner is struggling to come in. While not extremely broken, I find that Flamigo is very overcentralizing. I feel like there’s almost no reason to use any other scarfer over Flamigo. I can’t build a balance team without scarf Flamigo, and it just feels like it’s so much better than its competition. It may not be broken, but I don’t quite know how I feel about it’s presence in the meta yet.

That’s it for now! Maybe one day I’ll get to making that post about the old mons that I think are still good…