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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
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What's with all the Aura Sphere Raikou hate? It doesn't make it to much better, it's not like it got Surf for RD teams or anything.
(Looks and sees Weather Ball)
...Well, damn. I give up. I have officially been convinced, after ALL THIS TIME, that Raikou is BL. And I've been here since the begining of NewUU.
(Looks and sees Weather Ball)
...Well, damn. I give up. I have officially been convinced, after ALL THIS TIME, that Raikou is BL. And I've been here since the begining of NewUU.
Where does it get the boost from? This is what I don't understand: Raikou can't just magically get a boost, it has to waste a turn getting it, by which point it should be severely weakened.
Wonderful. Raikou is forced out and then has to take Spikes and Stealth Rock damage coming back in. With one layer of Spikes+Stealth Rock+previous LO damage hitting Hitmonlee on the switch, Raikou is now at 70%. If two layers, Raikou is at 60%. On the switch-in, it takes the attack it switches into. After that, it'd might as well be dead.
Raikou can come in on your Milotic/water/the innumerable amount of things it can force a switch and setup a calm mind as Venusaur switches in.
It's worth it if I can get rid of your only Raikou check. And if entry hazards are present, then Raikou just made your Check useless.
The ever-flawed "I am going to consider Spikes and SR argument against you and completely disregard it against myself". Simply, if you want to bring that up Hitmonlee has already fainted because of residual damage.
Now you need to backtrack.
Okay. I already corrected you once, so let's go again. PK Gaming pretty much summed it up when he said that Raikou forces out half of the tier. When something switches, you have a free turn! See, these time are when you magically get a calm mind. I could also say HEY MAN WHERE DO YOU MAGICALLY GET THESE SPIKES? and that Froslass / Omastar / Cloyster are huge setup fodder for Raikou. Who in their right mind would bring LO Raikou in on an attack that would weaken it so much that it couldn't sweep? You aren't bring it in on a Life Orb Power Whip from Venusaur, you're going to get it in on a Moltres Air Slash or a Surf from Milotic. ps i'd like to see you severely weaken my raikou with your milotic!!!!
This pretty much. Raikou (for some dumb reason) actually has bulk (especially specially) and with those 90/75/100 defenses he isn't actually *frail*.
Edit: You too? I'm tempted to switching my avatar too. Maybe Anne Hathaway...
People will start to use Magmortar. Seriously beating Bulky Water's is extremely fun, (especially Milotic, who is 2HKO most of the time by T-bolt)
It can hit like a truck too. It's flaws are it's lack of speed but it's easily work aroundable.
Oglemi, Magmortar is a better wallbreaker than Blaziken due to it's superior speed, (no speed tying with offensive Venusaur!) and power.
It can hit like a truck too. It's flaws are it's lack of speed but it's easily work aroundable.
Oglemi, Magmortar is a better wallbreaker than Blaziken due to it's superior speed, (no speed tying with offensive Venusaur!) and power.
Yea 383 SpA with Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, and Cross Chop (from base 95 atk) is useless.
owait
Lmao people must have forgotten how to fight against Lopunny. All these Electrode leads Rain Dance turn one and just get Encored. From there, I just sub on the switch. If its Tops/Fish, I'll Switcheroo the Flame Orb. Ludicolo/Gorebyss/Omastar just get Encored then I go to my SDCroak. SD up then it's pretty much game. I missed how Lopunny was able to win matches with just an Encore + Subpass.
I think I'm gonna try utilizing the awesome power that is Magmortar. What kind of Pokes do you guys feel that he can safely switch into, though? That's the real issue I have with him (if he had Flash Fire, man oh man). If Froslass were to stay in UU, that seems like a easy switch. Possibly Spiritomb, as he could come in on an obvious Will-o-Wisp, but Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch variants could really dent him after he's gotten in.
And that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
And that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Lol. Arcanine is never beating bulky waters. Ever...
Meh, he's kinda frail on the physical side but he's got decent Special defense. Weak grass, ice attacks I guess. But what's special about him is that literally next to nothing can switch into Magmortar safely...
Chansey is 2HKO by Cross Chop, while Milotic and Slowking are 2HKO by T-bolt.
(always open up with T-bolt and Fire blast on the predicted switch)
Magmortar opens holes in MANY teams.
Sunnybeam says hi.
Come now, you can't expect an epic novel from every post, considering Froslass's job is so simple: Spikes Spikes Spikes Attack/Destiny Bond. Faster than everything, perfect coverage, can't be spun on. Singlehandedly beats every common spinner. Sweepers sweep 5x as hard. Whoop-dee-doo.
That's really all there is too it. Hope you don't start raging if I can't come up with enough fluff to appease you.
She beats those guys too, Mr. Pedantic. Blastoise gets hit by Tbolt or Taunt/Destiny Bond while I just keep hitting Top with Ice Beams while it frantically tries to spin 1-2 layers out. Which I'll just set up again once it's dead.
"Oh snap, you sacrificed yourself for 1-2 layers! Guess I'll just do it again."
Kabutops and Armaldo are the only spinners that beat her reliably, and even then, they won't have time to spin or set up rocks once I bring in an offensive Pokemon on the revenge.
"Oh snap, you sacrificed yourself for 1-2 layers! Guess I'll just do it again."
Kabutops and Armaldo are the only spinners that beat her reliably, and even then, they won't have time to spin or set up rocks once I bring in an offensive Pokemon on the revenge.
SJCrew said:
lol ok. The thread does speak a lot about Froslass herself. Not that I said anything to the contrary.
17 noms for Froslass, 10 for Raikou, 6 dugtrio, 4 Moltres, plus Spikes and SR. Out of 20 total. Looks like Froslass is definitively screwed.
However, I do think a lot of arguments are a bit silly. Froslass won't get three layers down, spinblock, and murder Hitmontop and Donphan's grandmas in their sleep like everyone's nominations seem to suggest. I would like to see her gone, but honestly, keep it realistic. There's no way Frossy should be switching in fresh and ready to tangle with opponent spinners if it wants to lay any spikes down. Especially not because: 1. Spikes are apparently impossible to not have down, 2. Froslass does not levitate, 3. You have to assume the same conditions for both teams, and 4. She carries a Focus Sash for a reason. She's also easy to take care of with a good Pursuiter if she is somehow alive after putting down the spikes. I also cannot remember the last time I lost a pokémon to one of her Destiny Bonds, which she apparently does every match.
People are also attributing Dugtrio with a ridiculous offensive prowess. It CANNOT just come in and kill Arcanine, for example. Extremespeed OHKO's the little guy(s), assuming two layers of spikes (which I guess we can all assume since Froslass is magical). It also cannot just laugh in the face of a full-HP Regirock. With no spikes (on both sides), Regi wins because Duggy fails to 2HKO. With three layers or two plus rocks (on both sides), Regi OHKO's Duggy and is left with a quarter of its health. With exactly one or two layers on both sides, Regi will faint, but Duggy will be left with a sliver of health. Not an epic win for Regirock, yes, but people like to go look, Regi fainted! Dugtrio takes out full-hp Regirockunder specific conditions, and pretty much kills itself doing so! Epic win! I'd also like to note that some Registeel carry Ice Punch now, which OHKO's with a layer of spikes and LO recoil if you have the audacity to try and take it out at full hp. Not saying Registeel pwns Duggy, but Duggy cannot just flat-out murder full HP Registeel every time. Saying so makes Duggy seem super-powerful when it's not. Another thing that irks me is that people are ignoring Dugtrio's super setup fodder skillz. It's a free in for a lot of stuff, even Orbed, because it has paper-thin defenses and Base 80 attack. It's true that, say, Milotic, acts as setup fodder for a lot of stuff, but the thing is it's actually useful once it gets forced out and can switch back in on stuff, or hurt the setter-upper as they do so. Dugtrio is frail enough that it's often a one-shot deal.
Most Raikou noms are actually decent. I think underlining its unpredictability is the way to go, and most people did that.
There's a serious problem with the Moltres noms, though. Three of the people who nominated Moltres also nominated Froslass. Everyone who nominated Moltres and Froslass talks about how Froslass is an awesome spinblocker that makes it impossible to spin away spikes in their nom. The person who didn't talked about how Moltres' counters are SR-weak. That is not OK. You are contradicting your own arguments. The notion that Froslass tracks down every spinner on your opponent's team before beating them up and stealing their lunch money should mean that if you can find a turn to put down SR, you'll be able to keep it up. We can't assume advantage X against the team facing the suspect, but not against the team containing the suspect. Basically, is SR "Common Battle Conditions" or not? By saying that Froslass is a magic spinblocker, you create the assumption throughout your post that entry hazards are hard to spin away and thus common conditions. But when you get to Moltres, you kick that assumption out the window because it's to your advantage. Stop it! I know nomination paragraphs are biased by their nature, but really, combining contradictory arguments in one post like this is like having a gay transvestite. Absolutely no point.
However, I do think a lot of arguments are a bit silly. Froslass won't get three layers down, spinblock, and murder Hitmontop and Donphan's grandmas in their sleep like everyone's nominations seem to suggest. I would like to see her gone, but honestly, keep it realistic. There's no way Frossy should be switching in fresh and ready to tangle with opponent spinners if it wants to lay any spikes down. Especially not because: 1. Spikes are apparently impossible to not have down, 2. Froslass does not levitate, 3. You have to assume the same conditions for both teams, and 4. She carries a Focus Sash for a reason. She's also easy to take care of with a good Pursuiter if she is somehow alive after putting down the spikes. I also cannot remember the last time I lost a pokémon to one of her Destiny Bonds, which she apparently does every match.
People are also attributing Dugtrio with a ridiculous offensive prowess. It CANNOT just come in and kill Arcanine, for example. Extremespeed OHKO's the little guy(s), assuming two layers of spikes (which I guess we can all assume since Froslass is magical). It also cannot just laugh in the face of a full-HP Regirock. With no spikes (on both sides), Regi wins because Duggy fails to 2HKO. With three layers or two plus rocks (on both sides), Regi OHKO's Duggy and is left with a quarter of its health. With exactly one or two layers on both sides, Regi will faint, but Duggy will be left with a sliver of health. Not an epic win for Regirock, yes, but people like to go look, Regi fainted! Dugtrio takes out full-hp Regirock
Most Raikou noms are actually decent. I think underlining its unpredictability is the way to go, and most people did that.
There's a serious problem with the Moltres noms, though. Three of the people who nominated Moltres also nominated Froslass. Everyone who nominated Moltres and Froslass talks about how Froslass is an awesome spinblocker that makes it impossible to spin away spikes in their nom. The person who didn't talked about how Moltres' counters are SR-weak. That is not OK. You are contradicting your own arguments. The notion that Froslass tracks down every spinner on your opponent's team before beating them up and stealing their lunch money should mean that if you can find a turn to put down SR, you'll be able to keep it up. We can't assume advantage X against the team facing the suspect, but not against the team containing the suspect. Basically, is SR "Common Battle Conditions" or not? By saying that Froslass is a magic spinblocker, you create the assumption throughout your post that entry hazards are hard to spin away and thus common conditions. But when you get to Moltres, you kick that assumption out the window because it's to your advantage. Stop it! I know nomination paragraphs are biased by their nature, but really, combining contradictory arguments in one post like this is like having a gay transvestite. Absolutely no point.
Now I'm sorta kinda hoping Raikou doesn't get the boot, since I want to test out Aura Sphere Raikou. Thunderbolt/Hidden Power[Ice]/AuraSphere sounds brutal. I think it hits every check for SE damage except Lanturn and Quagsire. Anyone know when that will be added to Shoddy?
And yeah, Narulyg, I haven't finished my Moltres nom, so Ill probably be fixing the SR contradiction before the end date.
And yeah, Narulyg, I haven't finished my Moltres nom, so Ill probably be fixing the SR contradiction before the end date.
You know that you can still use Raikou in OU right? Also, Aura Sphere most likely won't be implemented in Shoddy Battle anyway, because they haven't created a way to use a set nature. So you'll have to wait for Shoddy Battle 2.
More Froslass noms PLEASE.
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