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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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This has felt like the most balance this metagame has had in a long time...spikestacking is annoying..but i feel that strategy will still be around even after frosslass gone...frosslass is tipping the edge a bit, but not too much...lol cant really complain though too much about this metagame...
Again, disregarding Froslass's Ghost-typing is a major mistake in regards to it's overall function, especially when you're comparing it to other Spikers such as Qwilfish.
Qwilfish can switch in, use Spikes....then have them spun away on the same turn by Donphan or Hitmontop.
Qwilfish can switch in, use Spikes....then have them spun away on the same turn by Donphan or Hitmontop.
^
By that logic, Froslass can use Spikes... then get KO'd by Stone Edge on the same turn by Donphan or Hitmontop.
Anyways, my point was that Qwilfish is very much capable at filling a spike-stacking role but not in the sense that he is filling Froslass's position. Also, its not like Qwilfish doesn't have his own bag of tricks. Pokemon like Hitmontop and Blastoise run the risk of proc'ing Poison Point, Donphan is 'threatened' by a SE STAB attack, and all need to be weary of Explosion.
By that logic, Froslass can use Spikes... then get KO'd by Stone Edge on the same turn by Donphan or Hitmontop.
Anyways, my point was that Qwilfish is very much capable at filling a spike-stacking role but not in the sense that he is filling Froslass's position. Also, its not like Qwilfish doesn't have his own bag of tricks. Pokemon like Hitmontop and Blastoise run the risk of proc'ing Poison Point, Donphan is 'threatened' by a SE STAB attack, and all need to be weary of Explosion.
Froslass is still seen as a lead. 90% of the time.
Froslass ghost typing means it blocks Rapid Spin... but also it's the only spiker weak to Pursuit. Exploring that means Froslass is much more manageable (considering you have a spinner on the team).
That means Pursuit users are great as leads. You can spin any Spikes away without many worries. (unless the opponent has Spiritomb...).
Froslass ghost typing means it blocks Rapid Spin... but also it's the only spiker weak to Pursuit. Exploring that means Froslass is much more manageable (considering you have a spinner on the team).
That means Pursuit users are great as leads. You can spin any Spikes away without many worries. (unless the opponent has Spiritomb...).
But it doesn't stop them from Rapid Spinning the Spikes away.
Plus, Hitmontop doesn't OHKO Froslass with Stone Edge (57.1% - 67.6%), neither does Donphan (67.1% - 79.3%).
I'll agree that Qwilfish is still a viable offensive Spiker, but to say it's filling the role of "spike-stacker" to the point that Froslass was is completely false in my opinion. I know you didn't mean "Qwilfish will replace Froslass", but unless I misunderstand, you're saying Qwilfish is capable of taking Froslass's place as a "spikes-stacker"? I can't agree with that.
So I'm new to the process, but I would like to try and vote this time. I'm not sure what the 1600/55 and the 1775/45 implies entirely. I'm assuming the 1600 pertains to your rating, but is that your estimate or is it referring to the lower of your two ratings? And I have no idea with the 55 is supposed to mean haha.
Also, if I could vote, I would definitely put Froslass at BL. It's pretty unlikely that she's not going to be doing her job, which is getting at least one layer of Spikes up. One layer is all you need to put down to turn solid counters for Moltres and Raikou like Chansey and Registeel into "just checks." That's pretty broken, in my opinion. But the thing that bothers me the most is that most people, including myself, consider "beating" Froslass as just making sure she doesn't get more than one layer up, which is one too many, imho.
On another note, I have been seeing a lot of Slowking running around, and for good reason. His massive SpD and HP make him incredibly easy to switch in to the likes of Moltres. Using the spread that ToF wrote about in the Slowking revamp thread has been working wonders for me. His respectable Def also makes him a good switch-in to the likes of Azumarill and Feraligatr as well. Couple that with a STAB Psychic or Ice Beam and Venusaur won't be coming in once you've scouted it.
Two layers is more important than one layer though. If we penalized Pokemon for getting up one layer of Spikes, then every Spiker in UU could be called into question. Froslass has a variety of factors that make her eligible as both a potent Spiker and an overall supporting role.
Ok well I don't know where this is explained offically, because this is the nth time I've explained it:
EVERYTHING is based on your rating range. If you're range is 1550-1650, your rating would be 1550 + 1650 over two to find the "AVERAGE" rating. The 55 is deviation, which is basically the difference between your range divided by two. So using the same example, 1650 - 1550 = 100/2 = 50 deviation.
The 1775/45 rating is a "new" part of the test where if your AVERAGE rating and deviation are that high/low, you can basically "bypass" paragraph writing.
Yeah Megapants all these new faces are all on my new team built with a friend and for a good reason. Slowking is probably the best bulky water at the moment for the sole purpose of dealing with that annoying Moltres + Venusaur combo. I really don't want to run a Timid Milotic to deal with this combo since Moltres can now place me in a disadvantage with the bulky loss.
Torterra on the other hand is one strong motherfucker - possibly the most dangerous sweeper with a recovery move. I encourage people to try out a set I've been testing out: Synthesis / wood Hammer / Earthquake / Rock Slide with the Rock Polish EV spread. This is sorta like a Roserade-esque type of sweeper minus the Sleep Powder. Easy switch ins, SR resist, and fantastic dual stabs. Stallbreaker Torterra owns.
Torterra on the other hand is one strong motherfucker - possibly the most dangerous sweeper with a recovery move. I encourage people to try out a set I've been testing out: Synthesis / wood Hammer / Earthquake / Rock Slide with the Rock Polish EV spread. This is sorta like a Roserade-esque type of sweeper minus the Sleep Powder. Easy switch ins, SR resist, and fantastic dual stabs. Stallbreaker Torterra owns.
I don't mind the rise in Slowking usage at all. Keep sending it out against Kabutops/Arcanine/Rhyperior guys!
People tend to forget why they used Slowbro in the first place. At least until they get destroyed by the mons you listed as well as CB Blaziken/Hitmonlee.
This is why I love UU. You can use nearly anything and be successful, and in my case I think I may have stumbled onto a metagame staple. Leafeon.
Now, Leafeon is often seen as a physical attacker and his stats reflect that, but I find his physical wall set is much,much,much more efficient.
Leafeon
name: Physical Wall
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Yawn / Roar
move 4: Leaf Blade
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe
Why... is what I first thought. I mean smogon is filled with these. Those useless sets that some pokemon have that are either: outclass or just plain bad.
(Raichu in question has a choice Specs set when Manectric is faster, stronger AND has switcheroo)
Simple and straight EV's for maximum tanking ability. It's a fantastic counter to MANY physical attackers, and is more than capable of being a team player.
Wish is single handedly the one reason why you should use Leafeon over Tangrowth. Wish and Protect go together as one providing reliable healing and proper protection. Yawn is poor mans Sleep powder true. But it's reliable and I won't curse because it can't miss. Yawn and protect also go hand in hand.
I've had phenomenal success using Leafeon and many of my matches reflect that.
Now I haven't won many because my current team is a tad poor (Testing Raichu*)
but often times I can easily hold out with Leafeon alone due to it's sheer versatility. Yes, I have literally turned some potentially 6-0's to 2 or 1-0's with just Leafeon alone.
Furthermore, it makes a monstrous defense core with Registeel (Regileaf or Leafy steel) walling nearly all of UU save Moltres. (gotta pack bulky waters)
You guys should really use it.
Pros over Tangrowth:
*wish
*speedy
*Reliable (Tangrowth has to use both power whip and sleep powder, both moves have... shady accuracy)
Tangrowth
*Bulkier (lower defense but much higher HP makes it bulkier)
*Sleep powder can sleep switch in's.
*I haven't got much to say about Raichu, save that he makes a decent alternative to Raikou. For one he isn't hard walled by Chansey / Registeel. (2+ Focus Blast 2HKO's chansey and can OHKO Registeel with 1 layer of spikes)
It's not amazing and clearly inferior, but if Raikou ever goes to BL, you might as well use him!
Now, Leafeon is often seen as a physical attacker and his stats reflect that, but I find his physical wall set is much,much,much more efficient.
Leafeon
name: Physical Wall
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Yawn / Roar
move 4: Leaf Blade
item: Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spe
Why... is what I first thought. I mean smogon is filled with these. Those useless sets that some pokemon have that are either: outclass or just plain bad.
(Raichu in question has a choice Specs set when Manectric is faster, stronger AND has switcheroo)
Simple and straight EV's for maximum tanking ability. It's a fantastic counter to MANY physical attackers, and is more than capable of being a team player.
Wish is single handedly the one reason why you should use Leafeon over Tangrowth. Wish and Protect go together as one providing reliable healing and proper protection. Yawn is poor mans Sleep powder true. But it's reliable and I won't curse because it can't miss. Yawn and protect also go hand in hand.
I've had phenomenal success using Leafeon and many of my matches reflect that.
Now I haven't won many because my current team is a tad poor (Testing Raichu*)
but often times I can easily hold out with Leafeon alone due to it's sheer versatility. Yes, I have literally turned some potentially 6-0's to 2 or 1-0's with just Leafeon alone.
Furthermore, it makes a monstrous defense core with Registeel (Regileaf or Leafy steel) walling nearly all of UU save Moltres. (gotta pack bulky waters)
You guys should really use it.
Pros over Tangrowth:
*wish
*speedy
*Reliable (Tangrowth has to use both power whip and sleep powder, both moves have... shady accuracy)
Tangrowth
*Bulkier (lower defense but much higher HP makes it bulkier)
*Sleep powder can sleep switch in's.
*I haven't got much to say about Raichu, save that he makes a decent alternative to Raikou. For one he isn't hard walled by Chansey / Registeel. (2+ Focus Blast 2HKO's chansey and can OHKO Registeel with 1 layer of spikes)
It's not amazing and clearly inferior, but if Raikou ever goes to BL, you might as well use him!
with the Dugtrio rise on usage, i really think Porygon 2 has it's niche now.
It works as a paralysis spreader and the check #1 of Dugtrio, trapping it because of Trace.
It's also bulky enough to take any non fighting attack and Recover it's health up, like unboosted Rhyperior attacks. Also Traces and paralizes Houndoom/Arcanine between some other threats.
And yes, it's a poke that can take a damn Torterra!
Pairing with CM Uxie with Heal Bell to "avoid" fighting attacks is very nice.
Or with something that Dugtrio would like to trap with Shed Shell (Ninetales is what use).
Many teams are relying too much on Dugtrio to take out some threats... that's why i think P-2 can be a good addition to anyone's team.
It works as a paralysis spreader and the check #1 of Dugtrio, trapping it because of Trace.
It's also bulky enough to take any non fighting attack and Recover it's health up, like unboosted Rhyperior attacks. Also Traces and paralizes Houndoom/Arcanine between some other threats.
And yes, it's a poke that can take a damn Torterra!
Pairing with CM Uxie with Heal Bell to "avoid" fighting attacks is very nice.
Or with something that Dugtrio would like to trap with Shed Shell (Ninetales is what use).
Many teams are relying too much on Dugtrio to take out some threats... that's why i think P-2 can be a good addition to anyone's team.
I really don't get the rise in Slowking usage. People using to counter Moltres?? Why don't we just use Milotic, who has the same HP and SpA stats, but a ton more in SpD (15 Extra), and just 1 less in physical Defense?? Milotic also has a recovery move just like Slowking as well. Right now, I'm using U-Turn on my sweeping Moltres (HP Grass is meh anyway), and even with a Timid nature, I'm doing about 45% to Slowking (Due to his weakness) on the way out with my Life Orb.
EDIT:
FlareBlitz has been using that set for like the whole testing period (Or at least early in the period). Filler move is Substitute, and it is damn annoying.
EDIT:
FlareBlitz has been using that set for like the whole testing period (Or at least early in the period). Filler move is Substitute, and it is damn annoying.
It's his favorite poke, of course lol
The same way FlareBlitz is always using Jynx on his teams.
Too bad Meganium doesn't have any niche (except that it resists ground unlike Venusaur)... oh well
About Slowking: Thunder Wave is the answer.
Although both aren't the "absolute best" Moltres counter.
The same way FlareBlitz is always using Jynx on his teams.
Too bad Meganium doesn't have any niche (except that it resists ground unlike Venusaur)... oh well
About Slowking: Thunder Wave is the answer.
Although both aren't the "absolute best" Moltres counter.
Hmm, Porygonn2 seems really interesting to capitalize on the increase in Dugtrio and Torterra, and even things like Arcanine. I think I'll try it...
Favorite pokemon for all eternity, and using something you like is fun
.
Anyway, no comments on Physically defensive Leafeon?
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