Froslass is a very good reason to use Sneasel. She doesn't stand a chance.
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np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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lol a funny thing i've been seeing...more anti-leads to stop frosslass than frosslass herself lol
I understand your argument, and as much as I disagree, you do have a point (a bit of one at least). However, the thing is that it isn't in any relation to what the point of saying what Froslass can still do in this metagame.
It's almost always a losing argument to bring up the metagame changes when there are so many possible suspects because you never really know which Pokemon is causing what centralization and how. You're trying to argue this, and I don't agree with you for the sole reason that you simply aren't considering any other possibilities - and you are actually wrong about the game not adapting, but I digress - it is still a very difficult argument to make on either side. So instead of simply accusing Froslass of causing a metagame shift, which I could argue it did (and probably much more legitimately than the counter-argument that you suggest - just look at the stats in relation to Spikes abusers, Anti-Leads, Spinners, and Ghosts when Froslass was dropped down), I am simply explaining how Froslass currently functions in this metagame.
When Cresselia was banned, naturally Venusaur, since it does so many things at a time, moved up. Froslass takes advantage of this change. This change did not happen because Froslass was not doing anything, and even if it did, it's irrelevant to the fact that: Froslass sets up Spikes on the number one Pokemon, and therefore functions > it did in the last metagame.
This is the only thing I mentioned in my nomination for the reasons that I listed above about the "metagame shifts" being bad arguments.
I'll always advocate the use of Rhyperior over Aggron on any given situation ._.
RP doesn't suck. But i don't like the RP+3 attacks set.
I love the RP Magnet Rise Aggron though.
You can easily use Aggron numerous resists to switch in and get a RP. Claydol? Rhyperior? Donphan? Magnet Rise and see them struggling to deal more than 10% on Aggron.
Even then: Aggron needs partners. Badly.
Luckily, for me, it's easy to put some partners with Aggron... but that's because i still play intensively with it to know how to deal with the problems, and how to act accordingly to give Aggron the best chance to take some pokes out.
Just like you, PK Gaming, must be the best Raichu/Leafeon user out there. Or not lol
I love the RP Magnet Rise Aggron though.
You can easily use Aggron numerous resists to switch in and get a RP. Claydol? Rhyperior? Donphan? Magnet Rise and see them struggling to deal more than 10% on Aggron.
Even then: Aggron needs partners. Badly.
Luckily, for me, it's easy to put some partners with Aggron... but that's because i still play intensively with it to know how to deal with the problems, and how to act accordingly to give Aggron the best chance to take some pokes out.
Just like you, PK Gaming, must be the best Raichu/Leafeon user out there. Or not lol
When aggron firt got HS, I almost jizzed (well no but I was excited) but then after a while I knew it was actually a huge hype, which aggron was never able to live up to...ever. These days, I actually favor rhyperior over aggron almost always.
As for the RP set, I never liked the 3 attack one either.
However, I actaully prefer sub over magnet rise.
RP/EQ/Stone Edge/Sub with decent support can be awesome.
As for aggron...the Rp set is...OK. It's not BAD but it's not too great.
I'd bluntly say that it was a hype.
However, the CB set can be quite good; however, i'd still prefer cb rhyperior over it once more
As for the RP set, I never liked the 3 attack one either.
However, I actaully prefer sub over magnet rise.
RP/EQ/Stone Edge/Sub with decent support can be awesome.
As for aggron...the Rp set is...OK. It's not BAD but it's not too great.
I'd bluntly say that it was a hype.
However, the CB set can be quite good; however, i'd still prefer cb rhyperior over it once more
Bleh. Cool men use Aggron. But I would think that Aggron has Magnet rise. Maybe that over Rhyperior?
Meh if you say so. I mean what with the advent of Torterra and (even with massive denial) I can see that RP Rhyperior is actually better (albeit slower...)
You know, I hate it when people say that because often times Aggron is harder to switch in than Raichu lol. (kidding) but seriously, almost every pokemon in UU is packing a move to hurt Aggron. This wouldn't be a problem if Aggron wasn't 4X weak to fighting/ground. (he could potentially set up on weak EQ's)
And most of his *special* resistances still hurt like a bitch.
In short, Switching Aggron is a lot harder than it seems.
QFT. Aggron's best friend for life is Altaria. (well for me)
Do you mean to say that you are the best Aggron user?
Maybe i'm the best Aggron user... well, not much people uses it anyway lol
And i rarely fail with Aggron (except when i switch into U-Turns and i meet Dugtrio... or when i just play dumb... and that happens a lot actually, like letting Aggron die aganst a Hariyama when i have something else to take it off).
Anyway: Aggron is weak to most "coverage moves", which is bad (and it's sp.def is lame too)... but i still keep my opinion that Aggron is the BEST pokemon to switch into Choiced attacks in UU.
And yes: Torterra is just a pain. That's why i normally carry Porygon 2... so adios Dugtrio... and good luck Torterra... also, good luck for me when fighting pokes comes in.
EDIT: lol, just a explanation: what i meant about the Raichu/Leafeon thing is that you use it extensively to know how to play with it better than most people (that, about Aggron, always seems to prefer Rhyperior for example).
And i rarely fail with Aggron (except when i switch into U-Turns and i meet Dugtrio... or when i just play dumb... and that happens a lot actually, like letting Aggron die aganst a Hariyama when i have something else to take it off).
Anyway: Aggron is weak to most "coverage moves", which is bad (and it's sp.def is lame too)... but i still keep my opinion that Aggron is the BEST pokemon to switch into Choiced attacks in UU.
And yes: Torterra is just a pain. That's why i normally carry Porygon 2... so adios Dugtrio... and good luck Torterra... also, good luck for me when fighting pokes comes in.
EDIT: lol, just a explanation: what i meant about the Raichu/Leafeon thing is that you use it extensively to know how to play with it better than most people (that, about Aggron, always seems to prefer Rhyperior for example).
You've literally summed up it's biggest problem. Sure it can switch into it's MANY resistances, it's awful typing is prone the secondary and tertiary moves. Take Absol, something Aggron is SUPPOSED to wall: Oops carries Super power. Want to wall scyther? He brick breaks you to death.
It does well against Choiced physical attacks that it resists, both those a pretty rare. It's the best Swellow counter in the tier so that's a bonus.
Those are not rare: there's a whole 10 typings for Aggron to switch in (i mean the Choiced pokes)... and it can also easily switch into neutral physical attacks.
Even Choiced special attacks are fine... as long as they are resisted.
And Aggron biggest problem is exactly why it needs partners.
Aggron isn't a stellar poke anyway.
Also, one tip: when you use Aggron, never RP the first time you send it in. Always Head Smash. That's one of the things i found for Aggron to be more sucessuful than normal.
Even Choiced special attacks are fine... as long as they are resisted.
And Aggron biggest problem is exactly why it needs partners.
Aggron isn't a stellar poke anyway.
Also, one tip: when you use Aggron, never RP the first time you send it in. Always Head Smash. That's one of the things i found for Aggron to be more sucessuful than normal.
Not really. Most Choice special attacks 2HKO anyway.
There aren't many physical attacks that are choiced you can switch into. Examples?
Well dude, that's pretty common knowledge. Aggron needs to scope the place out
cookie for reference
Attacks that Aggron can switch into:
Scarf Venusaur's Sludge Bomb, Scarf Moltres's Air Slash, CB Arcanine, CB Spiritomb, CB Rhyperior's Stone Edge Megahorn, CB Dugtrio's everything but Erathquake, Cb Azumarrill's Return, Choice Rotom's Shadow Ball, CS Alakazam's Signal Beam Psychic, Scarf Uxie's <anything but Trick>, Cb Scyther's <anything but Brick Break>, Spec's Gorebyss' Ice Beam, and CB Hitmonlee's Stone Edge. Then there is also Froslass, most Ambipom, SToss Registeel, Umbreon, Chansey, Clefable, Swellow, Uxie, Mespirit, Leafeon, Support Tangrowth, Electrode, Support Altaria, and Miltank. Subrise ones can come set up on Claydol, Donphan, Steelix, Bulkytorterra (do these exist anymore?) and Regirock.
Pretty sizable chunk acctually. But this is obvious, since this how Aggron plays, and everybody knows that most of these Pokemon have to be choiced, and there is an equal, if not larger amount of Pokemon that can force Aggron out.
Also what moves does Choice Specs Sceptile run?
Sceptile?
Leaf Storm/Focus Blast/HP Fire or Rock/ Dragon Pulse or Energy Ball
The only moves affordable for Aggron to switch in are Dragon Pulse and HP Rock.
But again, Aggron is better off revenging against Specs pokes.
Not necessary to sacrifice a poke just to bring Aggron in: but anytime a poke of yours dies, and the "murderer" is locked into a good move for Aggron to come...
Leaf Storm/Focus Blast/HP Fire or Rock/ Dragon Pulse or Energy Ball
The only moves affordable for Aggron to switch in are Dragon Pulse and HP Rock.
But again, Aggron is better off revenging against Specs pokes.
Not necessary to sacrifice a poke just to bring Aggron in: but anytime a poke of yours dies, and the "murderer" is locked into a good move for Aggron to come...
That huge list of pokémon ain't worth a thing if it's enforcing pokés to be locked in very specific attacks to start with. Added to that, many of the pokés that were listed aren't that much of a free switch to be honest (Chansey and Clefable have paralysis, Seismic Toss Registeel can not only paralyze it but possibly beat it, as Earthquake does not hit for sky high attack and it isn't a 2HKO without Life Orb IIRC, CS Alakazam is just lol, and I think Specs Psychic 2HKOes, 3/4 of ScarfUxie's attacks [Trick, TWave and U-turn] put Aggron on a bad situation; and Aggron cannot switch into any of the pokés the SubRise set beats unless it's on a support move, while BulkyTorterra actually wins if I'm not mistaken, even if you get the Polish).
That was a quick list made in like five minutes. obviously I didn't think up every single possible scenario.Besides the fact that you only really discounted about five Pokemon. (Clefable doesn't often have paralysis (it does use Encore a lot though, and that sucks)) Obviously Aggron cant switch into every single one of those Pokemon every single time, for free, set up and sweep. It would be pretty broken if it could do that. That's a list of Pokemon that it can set up on, if you predict right. You are right though, in that its not nearly as impressive if you think about it since most are pretty situational.
From my experiences (using and playing against), Aggron is best suited for the HS-SubPunch-Rise Set, Torterra is best using Sub+3, and Rhyperior's support set can rack up the damage. However, by passing a SD to any of the 3 and following up with Rock Polish... gg? It is pretty easy to do actually.
I agree, I <3 that set. I used it in conjunction with a twave and encore clefable.
Actually Aggron cant switch into ANY torterra set...Bulky or RP unless the torterra is foolish enough to not run EQ and Wood hammer
Yea, torterra lols at any aggron set that lacks ice punch, which we all know is rare, though I have been caught off guard by one.
I was thinking by two sentence requirement it was more like so: "Moltres is BL under the Offensive Characteristic. Its dual stab typing ,massive special attack, and above average speed make it an extremely difficult pokemon to swith into which provides it with near unstoppable sweeping power."
QFT. Other sets are generally outclassed by Rhyperior or Torterra. Although, I have used a weird lead set (SR, Head Smash, Aqua Tail, Magnet Rise @ Chople Berry) for some fun results.
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