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NP: UU - Silent Night

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Has anybody thought of the potential for a triple ghost strategy?

I was fighting this one guy on shoddy a few minutes ago and he had this team with mismagius, rotom, and Spiritomb... his lead was able to get spikes down and for the remainder of the match, I was not able to get spikes down (I run Blastoise as a spinner, btw) and they possibly cost me the match.

So I was wondering - could a team of Omastar, Mismagius, Spiritomb, Rotom, (bulky normal type to offset ghost weakness), and (fighting type like hitmontop that can take dark) be successful?
 
Probably wouldnt be a very successful team, since you dont have very many key resistances like a water, fire or grass resistance, so pokemon like DD Feraligatr or RP Torterra sweep your team easily.
That, and double ghost works fine for keeping up spikes.
 
Wow this thread changes topic so quickly...

@ Magcargo clusterfuck: I'm not going to say it's bad, since I haven't tested it, but just consider that it has two 4x weaknesses, crap all for resistances and a Stealth Rock weakness, things don't look good for the poor thing. If you guys want to brag about how good it is, GO TO QC AND WRITE UP A SET FOR EVERYONE TO ADMIRE. JEEZ

@ Hail: Hail is a dick, but thankfully, it isn't too bad most of the time. Now IF we brought Abomasnow down, that might change, but eh at the moment.

@ Triple Ghost: If you're happy about getting 3-0'd by stuff like Houndoom, go right ahead. Double Ghost strategy is good enough, in my opinion.
 
Meru said:
I just wanted to bring up Hail teams. I don't think they're too bad. My team can handle them well, but they always score the key freezes they need to win the game, which I don't see how I can handle that other than using something that can Flare Blitz out of it.
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So your problem with Hail is Hax? We honestly Can't help you there. Honestly I hope you still don't whine like a little brat when you lose a game.

Not to sound like a dick, but none of that was particularly helpful. I'm asking for tips against Hail, not the history of Hail. And Blizzard is still really potent considering it does ~25% to Milotic and will easily freeze if you try to PP stall or wall it.

For starters, I'm going to try replacing Houndoom with Ninetales. With a higher base speed, I can invest less EVs into speed to beat base 95s (mostly Arcanine and Houndoom) and more into SpDef so that it'll actually be helpful in soaking up a Blizzard.
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First of all, stop complaining about Freeze hax. If you want to counter Hail teams, run a Registeel to cover special threats and a fast fire type that can sweep through hail teams.

And what the heck? Magcargo covering 3 pages? Can we just move on?
 
What. The. Fuck.

Now i'm ashamed of myself when i used to talk about various gimmicks >_>
Can we talk about Rampardos now? No? Ok.


And who said using Gardevoir is "going off track"? You know nothing gaahhh


PS: Magcargo used to counter Yanmega. WOOT

Anyway: if you got problems with Hail, get rid of the one who sets Hail up (Snover) first . Then slash something like Sunny Beam Moltres on your team (who also lures Milotic like nothing). Adios Hail.
Same for Sandstorm.

If you don't want to use this, use Golduck. Adios Rain, Sandstorm etc
If you still don't want to use it: deal with it. Use smart play, something that doesn't care much about Hail, whatever.
 
Is the macargo thing some elaborate troll or?

Hail? If you get rid of hail the team crumbles because of their horrible synergy. It mostly consist of spamming Blizzard all day to just use an ice resist.
 
^Ignorant talk like that is exactly why people complain about this thread. Hell, my last Hail team had just Snover and Walrein as Ice-types.
 
IDK why people are complaining about the magcargo discussion. I loved it and it is very interesting and weird pokemon that definitely has its niche. Any poke someone who is good uses to beat good players and is different should be discussed.
 
capefeather said:
^Ignorant talk like that is exactly why people complain about this thread. Hell, my last Hail team had just Snover and Walrein as Ice-types.
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actually the most common Hail teams currently are just Snover+Dugtrio+a bunch of scarf Blizzard spammers. a lot of people copied WhiteQueen's team due to its relative success(it's also kind of fun to just switch to Glaceon and spam the fuck out of Blizzard).
 
capefeather said:
^Ignorant talk like that is exactly why people complain about this thread. Hell, my last Hail team had just Snover and Walrein as Ice-types.
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I didn't know thinking that Hail teams would usualy consist of pokemon that actually get a boost from it, IE Ice types, is "ignorant. Especially since the recent team which got to number one on the ladder consists exactly of that.
 
Magcargo is not top tier but it's certainly usable. It's not outside the realm of possibility to have a great 5 poke team that is weak to a combination of threats that Magcargo deals with well. It's not a bad choice at all to set up SR, and most of the things that want to hit it with EQ are going to fear being burned. The 4x Water-type weakness is really the biggest let down, but as pointed out, Venusaur handles Water-types pretty easily. The ability to shrug off Low Kick is also a plus. Magcargo's presence on a team can be enough to discourage your opponent from using strategies such as U-turn or using any contact moves that Magcargo might be able to switch in to to inflict a burn. This can really help out the team, as anyone who uses Flash Fire pokemon next to Fire-weak pokemon knows. Recover is also very, very nice. The weaknesses and lack of power are a bit of a letdown, but I think people overstate their importance. It invites revenge killers so... don't use Magcargo on Heavy Offense... right?

P.S. I still find the fact that we've discussed it for 3 pages hilarious. I hadn't checked the thread in a while, and I see a heated rebuttal about Magcargo as the first post on the page and I'm like "man I must have missed something. So I go back a page, and the first post is again and it's another heated rebuttal about Magcargo. Needless to say, I loled.
 
Delko said:
Well, WhiteQueen peaked at n°1 with an offensive Hail team ...
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Dude, I don't want to be an asshole, but it was a team with horrible synergy. It said more about how bad players on the UU ladder than how good the team was. Anyone using Milotic and isn't stupid can handily 6-0 that team. I mean, getting to No. 1 with that team is impressive, but the team, frankly, is meh. You might as well go "Here's a mono-Ice team, have fun".

So, putting that aside, Hail is not supposed to be used as an Offensive team, even though WQ proved it was possible to muscle your way up the ladder with one. Hey, Earthworm muscled his way up the OU leaderboard with mono-Ground (I think?) team, but that doesn't say it's good.
 
shrang said:
Dude, I don't want to be an asshole, but it was a team with horrible synergy. It said more about how bad players on the UU ladder than how good the team was. Anyone using Milotic and isn't stupid can handily 6-0 that team. I mean, getting to No. 1 with that team is impressive, but the team, frankly, is meh. You might as well go "Here's a mono-Ice team, have fun".

So, putting that aside, Hail is not supposed to be used as an Offensive team, even though WQ proved it was possible to muscle your way up the ladder with one. Hey, Earthworm muscled his way up the OU leaderboard with mono-Ground (I think?) team, but that doesn't say it's good.
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not to say that you are wrong, but I've seen the Blizzspam team beat many good players(I like to stalk them) whose team does not have the strength to withstand the constant 120BP STAB moves.
that's not to mention that if you alter certain portions of the team, e.g. adding Hairyama/Milotic/etc, it actually can be used as more than just a pure gimmick.
 
not to say that you are wrong, but I've seen the Blizzspam team beat many good players
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People like Flare and Thund?? Yeah gimmicks can tend to be overwhelmed by gimmick teams, since their purpose is to beat the standard. I mean the Blizzspam team is good in one thing that it wears down its counters (Like a SalaQuaza combo), but like I said, there's no way it gets past Milotic without having something weakening it. As I said, I don't want to be a spoil-sport, but if you want to mono-spam stuff, you might as well go with Rain Dance.

Taking away portions of the team would mean that you would have less Blizzard spamming, which can mean less wallbreaking power because they're not under constant attacks. I mean, at the moment (At least on WQ's RMT), it is perfectly fine to replace a Pokemon on there since what he's having right now is overkill. However, if you want to spam Blizzard over and over, you're going to have to do the whole "wearing down counters" thing, which likely means you need some doubling up.
 
anti404 said:
not to say that you are wrong, but I've seen the Blizzspam team beat many good players(I like to stalk them) whose team does not have the strength to withstand the constant 120BP STAB moves.
that's not to mention that if you alter certain portions of the team, e.g. adding Hairyama/Milotic/etc, it actually can be used as more than just a pure gimmick.
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I can defintely appreciate White Queen's Blizzspam team...Ice is an underrated offensive type...BUT most of the battles I see against good players with milotic+fire is the game changing hax...it happens alot to me as well...Spamming blizzard you are eventually gonna get a freeze or a crit...But this team does beat alot of unsuspecting players
 
jamashawalker said:
I can defintely appreciate White Queen's Blizzspam team...Ice is an underrated offensive type...BUT most of the battles I see against good players with milotic+fire is the game changing hax...it happens alot to me as well...Spamming blizzard you are eventually gonna get a freeze or a crit...But this team does beat alot of unsuspecting players
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I'll attest to that; I think I played against WhiteQueen's unmodded team 3 times and won two, losing the last to a Freeze on my Gardevoir; other than that I also lost one to a Sub / NP Jynx with Lovely Kiss. I vaguely remember winning a game a couple of months ago by KO'ing Snover and putting up the Sun with Sunnybeam Moltres - back then my first thoughts on seeing Snover was "hail stall" and knew Sunnybeam Moltres would give me a large advantage.

It's still a good team though. It has to be if it gets to #1 on the ladder. It might rely on hax to break through Milotic, but if you're using that many Blizzards you're bound to get a freeze or crit eventually ... just like if you use Stone Edge enough times, you're bound to get a crit or a miss. You can't fault the team for that.
 
yeah Shrang, I'm not exactly saying this is a great team or anything, but rather that it is effective. sort of how heavy offensive teams aren't exactly the best types to take into a tournament, but do well in accruing unexpected wins due to people generally only having one "true" counter to specific types of 'mons and then being overwhelmed by brute force.
I also used a slightly modified team, with Hariyama and Jynx @ Life Orb with Blizzard/Grass Knot/Lovely Kiss/Sub. Lovely Kiss+Grass Knot fucks a lot of what tried to counter stuff, and Blizzard is going to hurt everything that walks in. oh, and yeah, 'haxy' freezes/crits that Milo cannot stall through were how I often saw the better players fall.
again, I'm not saying it's exactly a good team, but it's a neat concept and I, an admittedly shitty player(started actually battling late May) peaked at low 1500CRE, where I generally stand at around 1430 on my main account.
*shrug*
 
That team has way too many weaknesses for me to call it good, and I've lost to it only because White Queen leads a charmed life and manages to proc crits/freezes/paras/snow cloak misses at the perfect times. Normally though, I just bring in Toxicroak on that Hariyama, boost up, and sweep. Or bring in Arcanine once Hariyama dies trying to wall Toxicroak and spam Flare Blitz/ExtremeSpeed. And of course I recall some raging after NP Ninetales and SD Kabutops beat up on it on various occasions.

Really most players should be able to beat it if they carry good Pokemon that they should be carrying in the first place. I'm not saying I haven't lost to it (twice, if I recall, compared to substantially more wins), but I'd probably also lose to MetapodLover4520's BD Charizard team if he gets lucky enough so...

Any team that relies on sweepers with crappy typing and zero synergy will not do very well. Unless its rain with 1.5x boosts to STAB and 2x boost to speed...
 
Any team that relies on sweepers with crappy typing and zero synergy will not do very well. Unless its rain with 1.5x boosts to STAB and 2x boost to speed...
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QFT. This should also be a lesson to people spitting "Hyper Offense" teams with crappy synergy. Rain has problems with zero synergy as well, but somewhat alleviated by the fact that its sweepers are powerful and fast as shit, kind of like 4drag2mag (4 Dragons + Magnezone/Magneton) in OU.
 
While we're on the subject of BlizzSpam not working against anyone good, remember when I said Golduck shuts down Hail just as badly as Rain? Chalk that one up to experience.
 
past 3 posts are untrue. dp is so team dependent that you're going to lose some to random ass shit sweeper. it's all about the user knowing how to use it. find the one poke every 'good player' thinks "no way another good person would use this poke so i wont prepare for it" and abuse it. that's what we called a ninjask lead in adv.
 
shrang said:
People like Flare and Thund?? Yeah gimmicks can tend to be overwhelmed by gimmick teams,
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I find this offensive and think you need to recheck what you're about to post before you hit 'submit reply.' Please go look at my last RMT and if you find a gimmick in there I'll give you a million bucks.

Anyway, Milotic isn't a full stop against that team because Glaceon just loves to freeze it every single time. I'd say the only reason that team is successful is because Blizzard loves getting hax be it freezes or crits.

(I actually 6-0d that team quite a few times with SubMonlee, well it would've been a 6-0 but he raged so....)
 
I ran Special Defense Articuno and SubRoost Moltres at the same time as my main when this was happening, so I basically Toxic stalled their entire teams while using up Blizzard's PP. Also, I had a Cloyster was on that team. It had way more counters than most teams apparently had, so I was actually very surprised when I tried it out and it raped a majority of ladder players. I'll admit, there were teams that just had a bunch of hard counters, which is a risk you always take with redundant teams. There are teams that work similarly with rain. A team like Registeel / Chansey / Milotic / Arcanine / filler / filler means for hail that you're pretty much screwed, and if they have 3 you're at a serious disadvantage. Still, not all teams follow that format, and many otherwise good teams and good players could be beaten with Hail. Unless we define "good players" as those who never lose to hail, but that's besides the point. Hail would never be a good idea for a tournament, because there is a risk that the opponent's team could multiple counters for something you have 4 of, and because one of your pokemon is Snover. However, after testing it, it's not hard to see how it could get to #1 on the ladder.

Also, unless the battle is very short, there's a good chance something gets frozen. Lame, but true. Glaceon is infuriating, but anyone who uses Stone Edge a lot knows that 80% chance to hit is risky. That is definitely an attribute of hail - it has hax on it's side. It's lame, but I don't see how it's not an attribute of how much it does or doesn't suck. If you run a counter to Zam that loses if Psychic drops it's SpDef, then you are going to lose to Zam sometimes. If your strategy against hail comes to a screeching halt if something gets frozen, you are going to lose to hail sometimes.
 
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