np: UU Stage 2 - Uptown Funk You Up

[ShatteredSummers]

Tangrowth seems to be a counter to Terrakion.
It has good recovery in Regenerator and Giga Drain and isn't 2HKOed by Jolly LO Terrakion, even after Stealth Rock.

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 156-185 (38.7 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 133-156 (33 - 38.7%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 180-213 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

And in return:
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 192-228 (59.4 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Tangrowth Giga Drain vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 288-342 (89.1 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
(It can achieve an OHKO with Power Whip)
0 Atk Tangrowth Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 284-336 (87.9 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Tangrowth Power Whip vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 422-500 (130.6 - 154.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Doublade works as a (somewhat unreliable) counter to Terrakion and Heracross (non-Knock Off variants), and can take both mons' Earthquake, but can be 2HKOed by boosted Earthquake or after prior damage.

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 133-159 (41.4 - 49.5%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Heracross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 102-120 (31.7 - 37.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

After Band:
252+ Atk Choice Band Heracross Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 164-194 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


So in conclusion, Tangrowth can pretty reliably counter almost every variant of Terrakion, and Doublade can sort of counter non-banded Terrakion and Heracross.

 

[GULLY]

Terrak is def gonna have to go its yet another fighting with stab coverage to bop would be checks to fighting. Everyone of its sets can outdo other fightings for the most part, bar hera in some situations due to guts. Once that leaves were gonna have to worry about cune ALOT. I wouldn't be surprised if it became suspect bc the tier caters to it so much now. Waters are going to wreck even more so than before even we have hera and mence to offensively check things are gonna be way different now. Cant wait until this new meta really gets rolling

 

[ShatteredSummers]

Usage of Mienshao is going to drop hard after Terrak comes to UU.

 

[AD impish john]

I called Pinsir to BL when I was it in UU update. Salamence or Terrakion will be banned next I suppose but I call Salamence (If it does tell them I called it). Heracross will be fine in UU (for now). Terrakion will be damn good in UU.

 

[Alfalfa]

I rarely ever play UU, but you guys are really hyping on Terrakion. Mega Pinsir being broken is obviously more arguable because its traits make it more difficult to handle, and Salamence UU has seen before back in XY, but you could at least give us more time to see how the metagame adapts to Terrakion before you decide to flat-out ban it. Terrakion has a lot to offer, but we should at least spend a little time to distinguish the truth on Terrakion from the hype. Simply put: if Terrakion in UU does not parallel something like Rayquaza / Mega Kanga / Mewtwo in OU, to which I doubt it parallels, then it is probably worth spending some time to see how it will actually affect the metagame.

 

[darkrai147]

This probably isn't the right place to ask this but can someone please show me where I can find an up to date list of what is currently in UU?

 

[Thanks Brock Obama]

It's kokoloko lol.

Anyways my thoughts are basically on par with TBO's in that Mega Pinsir and Terrak will leave but everything else has a chance to stay. I am so glad to see my fren Hera back in UU and Mence is a very nice addition to check Fire and Fighting spam all at once along with a nice ability in Intimidate. I will post more once I have tested the meta a bit but as of right now I am sad to see some favorites go (Celebi and Starmie) but happy to see some old frens (Hera and Mence).

Thanks, not sure how I feel about Calloflochie having a picture of Kokoloko on his hard drive so I'm just gonna sit here and ignore the implications.

Anyway, I've been on the search for an electric type to replace Raikou since he's left us for the Major Leagues, and I feel like everything has come up short aside from Mega Amphy. Has anyone been trying out something that's been working for them? Heliolisk has been the best for me so far.

 

[RecklessRaptor]

so can someone tell me, as i am a bit confused, is Mega Heracross in the tier? or just heracross?

 

[RecklessRaptor]

I'm honestly happy with Heracross being back in the tier. It's mostly because it is one my favorite Pokemon, but I'm certain it won't be broken without its mega evolution. Heracross has a bunch of checks and counters that can fit in most playstyles, such as Gligar, Nidoqueen, Florges, Aromatisse, defensive Salamanece (this set is so good, oml), Crobat, physically defensive Arcanine, etc. Not saying it isn't going to be a threat tho, the SD set is going to be a huge against slow teams, but not much worse than Pokemon like Lucario, and Scarf sets will be great against offensive, but playing around resistances is doable and its Speed makes it extremely revenge killable (If you are using offense, relying on revenge killing some stuff isn't that much of an issue, as long as your team is well built).

Terrakion is going to be absurd. The least threatening set is the Taunt / SR set, very easy to play around it and lacks the power to break through good defensive cores. The Terrakion sets that worry me are CB and SD sets (3 attacks SD, Dual Dance, and Sub Salac). The CB set has the potential to 2HKO a huge portion of the metagame with its STABs. SD Life Orb lacks the initial power, but after a boost only the sturdiest physical walls avoid the OHKO and some of them can't KO in retaliation [0 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 186-222 (57.5 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO]. Dual Dance and Sub Salac can only run its STAB as coverage, which makes Nidoqueen a problem!!!, but they are both extremely threatening to both defensive and offensive teams. Also, Choice Scarf Terrakion is going to be great revenge killer.

I'm so glad Salamence is back in UU. DD and Mix Mence are going to be great, that's a given. Defensive Salamence is going to be a great asset to some teams, thanks to its ability to beat some top threats such as Darmanitan, Scarf Mienshao, Heracross, Beedrill, Celebi, Honchkrow (-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Salamence: 153-183 (38.8 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), etc. And as a fan of HO in UU, I'm ready to use Scarf Moxie Mence as a cleaner :).

Not sure how to feel about Jirachi leaving. Getting flinched to death was annoying, but Jirachi was the glue of so many teams and it helped players keep many top threats in check. My Dual Dance Haxorus + BD Slurpurr team is much better now, so that's nice I guess.

PS: Fuck Mega Pinsir

I agree, at the beginning of ORAS UU i used Salamence as my defensive defogger and it is amazing!

 

[yamb]

so can someone tell me, as i am a bit confused, is Mega Heracross in the tier? or just heracross?

Just base Heracross. Mega Heracross would have been banned just as quickly as Mega Pinsir had it not been previously banned.

 

[xMarth]

I am highly doubtful that Terrakion is just hype. Without a doubt Terrakion's most dangerous set is the Rock Polish+Swords Dance set. we can all agree that Terrakion forces switches very easily because of its high initial power and speed and with decent 90/90/90 bulk it really does not have too much trouble setting up. Rock Polish is very difficult to deal with for offense while Swords Dance ensures it has no defensive counters(barring Defensive Nidoqueen, Doublade, and Claydol) after very little prior damage that can be easily provided by hazards. Its bulk actually allows it to take super effective stabs from various defensive counters when it can't 1HKO after a swords dance and proceed to boost again for the guarenteed 1HKO. Terrakion is very similar to Hawlucha but with more power, more bulk, the ability to run a useful item, and it has more than one chance to sweep. Terrakion on paper looks ridiculously powerful and in practice it is a mirror image of what's on paper.

 

[Bouff]

Alright, after playing a little bit (and getting bored because I remembered how tedious the ladder is), I'm pretty set on getting rid of Terrakion. It has a lot of set up opportunities thanks to its stupid good offensive typing, as well as fairly well rounded stats, and has a number of sets that can plow through both offensive and defensive teams alike (I think pretty much everyone has mentioned which, but SD LO 3 Attacks, Dual Dance, to name a few), with pretty much like....2 mons being able to switch into boosting sets, maybe more depending on if they're running a coverage move or not (Doublade pretty much lol), and to top it all off, it can run both Choice Band and Scarf sets very effectively, as a Scarfer that ties with Infernape yet still hits insanely hard due to its decent movepool and great Attack is a force to reckon with, while Band...kinda just mows down everything.

I also am really liking Aerodactyl in this meta (for once); Scarf Jirachi was one of the biggest things holding it back, and without it, it becomes much more efficient as an anti-offense mon, and is also a really nice check to Heracross and non Scarf Terrakion, both of which I'm assuming will be really popular.

I haven't given Salamence a try yet, but fat sets seem to be pretty good on balance teams, as it basically serves as a hazard cleaner, phazer, and physical wall all in one mon. Offensive sets also seem to be pretty good, but I won't really say much on those as it's been covered a good amount already.

 

[slated]

OK I've played enough to give my opinions on some of the stuff.

Terrakion is stupid. It has a ridiculously good offensive typing (fighting/rock is just another way to kill birds that wanna switch into CC) and 129 attack + 108 speed which is just the beginning of it. The sets I've encountered include CB, which has 0 switchins (2HKO's Doublade with EQ), Scarf, which is a great revenge killer, Dual Dance (which is ridiculous and kills everything when it sets up barring Doublade and Golurk), 3 attacks LO which is great for weakening Doublade with +2 EQ, again ridiculous, and even Rock Polish 3 attacks if you wanna fuck over offense that badly. It's just way too good for this tier; having both no switchins and an ability to nullify revenge killing (there is NOTHING in the tier that outspeeds a +2 terrakion, and most of the fast mons in the tier can't take a hit once they get outsped) means it's broken and needs to go.

Salamence is probably worthy of a ban, as well. There are only 2 viable scarfers that outspeed DD mence, those being Mienshao and Infernape (unless you run scarfbat lol) and those two scarfers have to rely on Stone Edge to revenge kill DD mence. DD Mence is easily the best and scariest set, since you can't really sack stuff off because mence just gets a moxie boost off of it. +1 outrage or Dragon Claw is scary as shit (with outrage murdering everything that doesn't resist it) and it has the option to use a move to get around its counters; Iron Tail kills every fairy not named Granbull, Earthquake should be run on every set but mence can even run Fire Blast / EQ / Dragon Claw to hit Forretress if it wants to. It basically requires defensive mons to be at full health and to pack a move that can outright kill it / to have a phazing move (but phazing doesn't really work, since Mence doesn't have trouble finding setup opportunities and it can just setup again) or to have something like Thunder Wave and Toxic that can cripple it. Therefore, stuff like Suicune or Vaporeon don't work if they can't get a burn first. LO DD Mence is probably the best set, because although Lum Berry Mence can shrug off burns it misses out on a lot of crucial KOs (can't KO umbreon at +1 and dies to Foul Play, misses out on a KO on offensive rocks Mega Swampert, for example) and is scary as hell. It resists most priority in UU, with only ExtremeSpeed and Bullet Punch hitting it naturally, and the strongest ExtremeSpeed in the tier (coming from Entei) dealing only 47-56% to it while it OHKOs entei back and grabs a boost. Don't forget about ScarfMence, which, albeit not as effective, is a great cleaner. I think the biggest issue with Salamence is that it can setup on so much, especially bulky mons but also choice-locked fire and fighting types (there are a lot of those), and grass-types that lack a move to hit it hard with, like non-Dazzling Gleam Shaymin. It can even utilize Intimidate to get a more bulkier setup and have more opportunities to setup. I honestly think it should go just because there are so many limited options as to what can stop it when it sets up and the ease of which it can set up, but that's much more controversial and may require a suspect test or something of the sort (not suggesting one.)

As for Heracross, it's really fun and has its fair share of answers, both offensively and defensively. It's a nice check to every water type in the tier barring Tentacruel (which it can still beat with EQ), which we really needed since the usage of electric types has gone to an all time low (seriously, the only UU mons by usage that can use STAB volt switch reliably are Rotom-H which I've been using but is honestly rather lackluster, and Mega Ampharos, which has dropped to a serious low in usage lately. It's nice if you wanna beat Suicune and don't want to run a Grass-type.

Barring Terrakion, I really like the meta right now; with the addition of heracross and the removal of Jirachi, it has removed quite a bit of redundancy in teambuilding and added a large amount of possiblity for creativity- it leaves me excited for the future. There is definitely a lot of stuff that can work in this metagame that nobody has discovered yet - and I feel like the metagame would improve quite a bit when Terrakion goes, and possibly Salamence (although this metagame has only been alive for 2 days, so who knows about that.)

 

[Pokemoon]

This probably isn't the right place to ask this but can someone please show me where I can find an up to date list of what is currently in UU?

in any ps chatroom, do /ds uu,all. it will show all uu mons. hope this helped! (sorry if this post is like spam, i'm answering a question so it's gonna be a short post)

 

[Nubs]

OML Mence is killer so far. Not so much an insta-win as Zygarde was when it was hanging out, but there are already bulky, scarf, band, defensive, defog, special sets. It's very fun to abuse right now, but I don't think it's gonna stay and hang.

Hera was missed. It didn't need to go in the first place. It was not another Victini. RIP Machamp though. Seriously. Before you get rid of it again, 80 HP, 75 Def, 85 Spe. It'll be okay.

Terrakion is a friggin monster with bad typing. I don't see it going as quick as Mence, but I don't think it'll hang forever.

 

[Joltage]

Herra left via usage last time, not because it was banned dude.

 

[GULLY]

Im on the fence with mence (saving that for one of my raps) right now. With its typing, bulk, and versatility its gonna be sure to change the meta I just can't foresee if that is for better or worse. The biggest thing that stand out to me as pushing it over the edge is its speed tier. Since we lost Rachi, which is for the better, Mence stands with much less competition in that speed tier +1 and otherwise. This means that its DD and scarf sets have much more free reign and are harder to check. I fear that those sets with become all too common place making the game about who can kill mence checks first. On the other hand I do like its other sets as they are threatening but not to the level I think DD and Scarf will be in this meta. Were gonna have to see how the meta shifts, but I don't think that mence is broken as people make it out to be, unlike Terrak which is such a BAN ME PLEASE.

 

[theDSC]

I think we all can expect Terrakion to run rampant in UU for the time beino. Even physical defensive cofagrigus is 2hkoed by +2 stone edge. Get the scarfed Mienshaos ready i guess.

With Mence l think it's gonna push Hydreigon out of the way as the top dragon in UU, an even more so for Haxorus. Not many answers to it either. A less chance to be banned than Terrakion but might leave us just the same.

 

[Godsend]

I don't want to even think about Mence and Hera until Terrak leaves, I mean, that thing is just broken as hell. I mean, there are few mons that have graced UU that give you such a distinct disadvantage if you aren't using it. It's just too good. Get that butt head out of the tier then we'll talk about Wussmence and Herabrah.

 

[silenced]

Uh, while we're on the subject of those annoying bulky waters, losing electric types really doesn't cause that much impact. Honestly I've never pretended to understand the raikou hype. I mean, people must of had some incredible prediction to be using it properly in a tier full or SR wielding bulky ground types. I'm glad to see it go to OU where it can actually shine against talonflame, rain, and slay those quad ice weak ground types, as opposed to being stuck in prediction wars in UU.

As for the fear of bulky waters, did everyone magically forget serperior? With jirachi gone, the grass snake becomes even more dangerous, especially since outside of scarf sets, the new drops don't appreciate the leaf storm + dragon pulse or HP fire combo (Hera has a small chance to survive leaf storm and the follow-up hidden power, and can do so if no hazards are up, but only at max health). Shaymin, Whimsicott and Roserade can all deal with suicune and co quite adequately in their own rights as well. We're really not short of good bulky waters slayers yet.

Conveniently, Serperior even at +0, OHKO's terrakion (93.8% chance without hazards down) and you don't even need a LO to do so. Also for those interested of serperior trying to take down a choice scarf variant of the bull
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 204-241 (70.1 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (strongest move scarf terrakion has vs serperior)
Okay, so using a LO on serperior is out of the question, but some hazard control or staying at near max health can give you somewhat a fighting chance. Just be sure to avoid those double dance sets getting +2 in both stats.

 

[Master B8s]

So with Pinserite being quick banned, is Pinser back to being outclassed by Heracross like in the previous gens? Seriously what does regular Pinser have that Heracross doesn't. Fighting coverage? Heracross has STAB fighting coverage. Hera outspeeds by 5 points I think, plus mono bug STAB<bug and fighting STAB. I just see Pinser having no niche over Heracross without its mega.

 

[newfren]

It doesn't have a niche over hera without it's mega, so it will probably drop to ru, then to nu. Then maybe to pu.

 

[Talpr0ne]

It's not like Mega Pinsir is lost forever. it's still aviable for use in OU, where it still is a great threath that can capitalize of the popularity of Fighting types. Same with Mega Heracross which I honestly find significantly better than Mega Gallade at wallbreaking(if i wanted to deal with offense using a Mega Evolving Fighting type I would just use Mega Lopunny+wallbreaker...).

In UU yeah, Heracross does have a great niche while Pinsir has none. Leave it alone and give it time to drop like what happened with Mawile.

 

[Ernesto]

Having played a bit in these past two days, Mence is definitely broken in a meta where bulky Water-types don't run Ice Beam and P2 is nearly nonexistant. I ran SubDD and it got enormous opportunities to set up (even better with Encore Zam support) thanks to Intimidate, although at the same time it failed to O/2HKO some mons I would've expected it to without Spikes support.

However, I'd really like to see how it fares when Water-types are actually checks to it instead of being setup bait. It could still prove to be broken for being too good against offense, but I can't comment on that for now.

 

[Zartres10]

I have to say, Terrakion and Mence(to a somewhat lesser degree) are on their road to over centralizing UU. Both are ridiculously hard to stop once they receive a single boost, Terra hitting most of UU hard with it's dual stabs and Mence plowing through teams with Moxie Outrage. Both are also versatile, as mentioned prior, leaving it hard to exactly predict what set they're using. God help teams who face one of these two without something to deal with them...