Project NU Research Week [Week 7: Gigalith and Indeedee-F]

[Pokeslice]

Congratulations to your____bro for winning this weeks iteration of Research Week with an ELO of 1477!

The general consensus around Sigilyph was that it's stupid good, with multiple different sets to prep for, creating severely limited counterplay.

Virizion on the other hand, was a slightly more interesting mon this time around, with multiple different creative sets being used. My personal favorite was YSB abusing a cool SpDef set that I feel like puts in a ton of work in this meta and should be used more! Overall, many found it a fresh, although nowhere near metadefining, pick, worthy of a look at in the builder.

Because of the Sigilyph suspect laddering going on this week, Research Week will be taking a brief, 2 week hiatus! We'll make sure to notify everyone when we're starting up again, but until then, thank you everyone for participating and I hope you had fun!

 

[roxie]

Week 5 (Silvally-form* and Drapion):

Welcome to NU Research Week Five!!! The two Pokemon we will be featuring are any Silvally-form and Exploud. The first 3 days is basically "Introduction" to signups and theorizing. The late period refers to the last four days of the research week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread. Discussion is mandatory in order to be considered as a winner of Research Week.
Please make sure you read the post above me! (Ends on 1/31/2021)


Every single last Silvally form has dropped to PU or even ZU...do you remember when nearly 10 of them were relevant in NU? Although the new Pokemon from the various shifts filled in many things the tier wanted like (Ninetales and Rapidash outclassing Silvally-Fire, Alolan Persian and Drapion outclassing Silvally-Dark, and so on), but we still decided to feature Silvally(all forms).

Drapion

Drapion
Ability: ?
- Knock off / Night Slash
-
-
-

Drapion is our next mon of choice and is a great Pokemon to use if you ask me because of it being able run quite a few sets fulfilling the role as a Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker, Speed Control, and so on. Its part Dark-typing helps with Psychic-types like Cresselia, Sigilyph, and Galarian Articuno that other Dark-types(like Pangoro or Zoroark) cannot handle because of their access to Moonblast, Air Slash, or Hurricane. We are making either Knock off or Night Slash mandatory of course due to it serving a significant role in dealing with mentioned Pokemon.

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as NURW5 Pokeslice or NURW4 Corthius) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.​
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!​
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!​
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell​
• The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown NU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends.​
• Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame. ​

Sample Discussion Template

[Sprite/Video/Banner/Image/(Not mandatory]
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion

 

[roxie]

nurw5 roxiee both

 

[Pokeslice]

NURW5 Slice both!

 

[Zangoose5000]

NURW5 Zang
Silvally Forms

 

[Corthius]

nurw5 cheesy - drap

 

[Elias PSY]

NURW5 ElPsy

Silvallies

 

[Catalisador]

NURW5 Swirlix

Silvally-Ghost all the way! ;D

 

[Danny]

nurw5 dani idrt I’ll play much but if I do will be using drap

 

[Pokeslice]

Week 6: The Return (Arctozolt and Jellicent)

After a brief, 3 month hiatus, we're back! With the recent ban of Hail and Smogon's newest shift, our meta has entirely shifted and this time around, we're featuring two fun Pokemon in Arctozolt and Jellicent, both of which might have a genuine place in the meta after the new drops and rises, although that's up to you! The first 3 days will be signing up and theorizing. The late period refers to the last 4 days of the Research Week, where raw evidence and discussion should become the basis of the thread. Discussion is mandatory in order to be considered as a winner of Research Week. Ends Monday, April 12 so make sure to get your submissions in beforehand!

With the recent Snow Warning ban, this mon might seem like a funny pick, but it has a ton of potential. STAB Bolt Beak off of a respectable 100 base Atk would already be nothing to laugh at, but couple with its infamous BoltBeam STAB coverage, and this mon has the potential to be unwallable. Gastrodon currently leaving has opened it up a ton, too. Now sets like Sub 3 Atk or CB can all reliably dominate slower, fatter teams, and with more than passable 90/90/80 defensive stats, it can even come in against a solid amount of the meta, including tier titan Vaporeon. Oh, and we can't forget manual Hail squads, too. Let's see what you got for this guy! He can certainly Rush through the meta.

A Corthius pick of course, but that makes it no less amazing for the meta at the moment. As we all know, the April shifts have brought us the nearly impossible to beat Entei and another menacing mon in Glastier. Finding ways to beat either one can be tricky, and for those who hate using Vaporeon on every team, Jellicent is a fantastic mon that gives you the compression to beat both through any combination of its vast defensive movepool. Jellicent's potential doesn't just stop there. Offensive Ghosts are extremely valuable in the tier, with little to no resists, especially when you factor in the offensive movepool Jellicent has. Specs Water Spout and Shadow Balls can quickly cut up the tier, and with the addition of Trick, you threaten crippling a wall, such as Vaporeon. Will Jelly be a fantastic glue mon worth a slot over another bulky water? Or is it fated to float forever throughout ZU?

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Post here with a fresh RW alt (such as NURW6 Roxiee or NURW6 Corthius) and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched!
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using; participate in the discussion!
• Post logs of this Pokemon in action against other teams - show rather than just tell
• The winner of the challenge will be the person who has the highest ladder ranking on the Pokemon Showdown NU ladder with their RW alt at the time the challenge ends.
• Winners will also receive a permanent spot in this thread's Hall of Fame.

Sample Discussion Template

[Sprite/Video/Banner/Image/(Not mandatory]
Introduction (Doesn't need to be long)
Set(s)
Discussion(Pros/Cons/Replays/Calculations)
Conclusion

 

[Corthius]

in NURW6 Corthius
using both

 

[roxie]

NURW6 Roxiee, both

Puffy423

 

[Pokeslice]

NURW6 Slice Both but kinda hyped for Offensive and Defensive Jelly

 

[turtledoggo1]

NURW6 Turtle, taking both. Will be my first time doing this but seems fun

 

[scorbunnys]

NURW6 Pokeseba, taking both

 

[Elias PSY]

NURW6 elpsy
Both

 

[Xerche]

NURW6 Xerche, gonna take jelly man for a spin

 

[skierdude101]

NURW6 ski, jelly maybe zolt

 

[Xerche]

From the games I've played so far, definitely feels like it has a solid place in the tier, beats other bulky waters, namely , thanks to access to taunt.

It's also a solid check to both common sets. its typing, good natural bulk, and access to taunt/recover mean that it can stay healthy while switching in to CB sets that aren't running crunch while staying healthy, and it can stop vintei from setting up.

The biggest disappointment I've had with compared to other bulky waters is in it's inability to check . Other Bulky waters in (or out of) the tier like all perform this role well. Due to it's typing, will be 2HKOd by +2 dpulse, and gets OHKOd by +4. Alongside not being able to really take a knock off, I feel like this issue is the biggest thing holding from being better in NU.

Overall, while it has a few issues, feels like a mon at least worth considering when you're in the builder if you don't feel like using vaporeon. Maybe my opinion will change over the week, but this is how I feel about jelly man as of now.

 

[skierdude101]

The issues ive had with Mr. Pringles is that if it gets poisoned (either normal or badly) it doesn't really check Mudsdale-Galar or Entei very well. It kinda requires you to play with tspikes absorbtion, generic toxic absorber, or heal bell support, whereas vaporeon compresses the healbell into one slot. Another thing ive kinda noticed from battles is that taunt only really helps you with the 1v1 vs vap, otherwise, it just wishes as you switch in and then they can hard switch into a plethora of things that shrug of what jelli can do.

As a defensive mon, it just seems like a worse vaporeon, I don't see much differentiation quite yet that would make it better.

 

[Pokeslice]

So far, I've used a bunch of Jellicent and faced a few Zolt so I think I can safely make an assumption on the two atm

I actually love defensive sets mostly for their ability to break down fat and Vaporeon with Taunt while also reliably checking Glastier and CB Entei. The thing is, Jellicent has legit 4mss syndrome, wanting to run some combo of Taunt, Toxic, Wisp, Recover, Sap, Scald, and Hex. So far, I've yet to find a combo that really works the way I want it. One second I want Scald like nothing else and the next I curse myself for making it Scald and not Hex. Thennn, I want Wisp to punish switch ins like Dragalge and Copper or neuter mons like CB Glastier, but I'm rocking Toxic, except, if I don't have Toxic, I can't beat Vaporeon as reliably. Oh, and it's just sooooo weak. Sometimes it'll do nothing when I need everything. All in all solid compression but definitely has problems. I need to try out Specs though another time

As a defensive mon, it just seems like a worse vaporeon, I don't see much differentiation quite yet that would make it better.

I half agree with this. Although I don't think this can replace Vap any time soon, Taunt+Recover really give it a solid niche. Taunt is so nice atm and underutilized.

Jelly Set

Jellicent @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover
- Hex

I actually think this mon is one of the hardest things to switch into in the tier. Bolt Beak is insane, OHKOing Copper from full, especially CB, and Life Orb Freeze Dry can 2hko it's only really switch in, Mudsdale. I've struggled with this guy before and I think I'll love using it. Manual Hail teams with it seem fire, too. Maybe it can set for itself?

 

[skierdude101]

So far, I've used a bunch of Jellicent and faced a few Zolt so I think I can safely make an assumption on the two atm

I actually love defensive sets mostly for their ability to break down fat and Vaporeon with Taunt while also reliably checking Glastier and CB Entei. The thing is, Jellicent has legit 4mss syndrome, wanting to run some combo of Taunt, Toxic, Wisp, Recover, Sap, Scald, and Hex. So far, I've yet to find a combo that really works the way I want it. One second I want Scald like nothing else and the next I curse myself for making it Scald and not Hex. Thennn, I want Wisp to punish switch ins like Dragalge and Copper or neuter mons like CB Glastier, but I'm rocking Toxic, except, if I don't have Toxic, I can't beat Vaporeon as reliably. Oh, and it's just sooooo weak. Sometimes it'll do nothing when I need everything. All in all solid compression but definitely has problems. I need to try out Specs though another time


I half agree with this. Although I don't think this can replace Vap any time soon, Taunt+Recover really give it a solid niche. Taunt is so nice atm and underutilized.

Jelly Set

Jellicent @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover
- Hex

I actually think this mon is one of the hardest things to switch into in the tier. Bolt Beak is insane, OHKOing Copper from full, especially CB, and Life Orb Freeze Dry can 2hko it's only really switch in, Mudsdale. I've struggled with this guy before and I think I'll love using it. Manual Hail teams with it seem fire, too. Maybe it can set for itself?

I feel like I should clarify, taunt is really useful in other situations, like vintei, glast, etc. I just found it a bit underwhelming in regards to vap since from the way its talked up it sounds like its the absolute vaporeon destroyer, but it really doesnt stop vap from doing the whole wish pass thing too well.

Arctozolt as a breaker without Hail support (self setting or hail team) just seems like another generic Slow Hard hitter (Exploud, Sirfetch'd, Golurk), and we have plenty of other options for that, and i dont think zolt brings much that they don't in that regard.

I tried manual hail setting and it was pretty fun, it definitely needs some chip on stuff tho before it can get kills, especially if you're not running a boosting item.

 

[xerovis]

NURW6 ex going to do zolt only

 

[Zangoose5000]

NURW6 Zang, both

 

[turtledoggo1]

peak

I am done laddering for this week, have a lot of work for the coming days so this is where it ends. I think I have played enough to get a grasp at arctozolt, though I definitely need to experiment with jellicent more. Laddering was honestly pretty fun using these two mons, would definitely use both again. Now onto the Pokemon themselves.

=================================================================================================



Jellicent @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover

I used like three teams with jellicent, with the only team I truly had success with being a jellicent stall team. It's actually pretty good, especially with the taunt shenanigans. It's cool walling annoying Pokemon such as bronzong, araquanid and druddigon, and spreading status with wil-o-wisp. During my laddering I've actually encountered many helioisk, a Pokemon capable of essentially walling jellicent. However, with the combination of burns and hazards, it's actually pretty easy to wear down helioisk. You can also recover on their volt switch, putting you in a good position usually and sometimes stunting the opposing team's momentum by doing so. Toxicroak was also popping up a lot, and it's cool to be a water type that isn't abused by croak. Hex on this set is to benefit from the status that is wil-o-wisp. Hex is also really nice because you are able to easilly pressure Pokemon that would want to switch in on a wil-o-wisp, such as machamp and xatu. Recover is self explanatory, and is chosen over strength sap due to it's reliability. The speed is to taunt mantine's from defogging/roosting/spreading status. Colbur berry gives extra protection vs. knock off users such as drapion and guzzlord, letting you spread a burn to them.

Jellicent Stall team: https://pokepast.es/1d75d0396e8d1bee

PROS

• Able to have an excellent matchup vs. salazzle, with the added benifit of being able to taunt sub toxic sets, something the other waters can't do
• taunt can prevent many bulky Pokemon such as vaporeon, sylveon, mantine and more from healing, as well as preventing status from bronzong and araquanid
• bulky enough to survive most powerful hits (banded fetch'd cc, specs hyper voices, banded golurk earthquake, +2 flygon earthquake (+3 if ur lucky), and so much more)
• your recovery is more reliable than vaporeon's wish (you aren't as passive basically)
• can comfortably switch into dangerous threats such as entei and glastrier

CONS

• heavy 4 moveslot syndrome, you want so much moves but giving up any one of them leaves you in a bad place in other matchups
• you are a bulky water that loses to blastoise
• you are kind of helpless vs. substitute Pokemon, as your hexes don't do much damage to Pokemon behind a sub, and you can't really status them either (eg. vintei and the aforementioned blastoise)
• item crisis, where if you opt for a berry, you are easily chipped by hazards and can't really come in on mons very easily, whereas if you're boots you get hurt by moves such as knock off way harder. Limiting your ability to better check fighters, and spreading status to dark types.
• you can't wish back up your teammates to full, which isn't really that big of a con but is still something worth noting

CONCLUSION:

In all, I feel like jellicent is very good despite a few cons, that for the most part, aren't even huge cons. It can scout entei's set, spread crucial status for its teammates, and prevent many pokemon from using their moves via taunt. It's typing is also very good, further helping it against extremely dangerous Pokemon such as salazzle and glastrier. Even though there's no hail anymore, jellicent still serves a valuable defensive niche in the metagame. BTW the blue one is way better than the pink one.

===============================================================================================



Arctozolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Icicle Crash
- Freeze dry
- Substitute

While laddering and using zolt, it was kind of a 50/50 matchup for it. Some teams it completely destroyed, such as fatter teams and the occasional stall. Other times, it could come in very little times, and was usually offensively pressured out a lot. also faced against like 3 piloswine during laddering. The set here is pretty standard, with bolt beak and icicle crash as your main stab options, with substitute to better abuse your breaking abilities. Oftentimes, people will switch out of their water to a ground type to try and catch the bolt beak, but are instead met with an arctozolt behind a sub. Putting them in a way worse position. Freeze dry is on this set to lower your prediction between moves. Such as an exchange between mudsdale and mantine. It also does decent damage to mudsdale after they have a stamina boost. It's very fun to use this Pokemon, even with so much of the meta really limiting its ability to wall break.

Arctozolt team: https://pokepast.es/996fe6c6eb0c2ab7

PROS

• can destroy fatter teams with ease between its stabs and substitute
• volt absorb can be handy in some cases to block a rotom's volt switch, allowing you to capatalize off that (only if it's scarf though)
• not really wallable; will claim a kill if it gets in safely

CONS

• kind of hard to bring in at times when all of the walls you want to kill can threaten a burn/ 2 hit ko/ status
• really low speed means you are outsped by things like sirfetch'd, and making you have to risk a speed tie to kill machamp/golurk
• if you decide to run jolly to try and get those speed ties, you lose out on power which can be crucial sometimes. eg. vs physdef bronzong
• weak defensive typing means that you get pressured easily
• if you run boots you lose out on more power, but if you run life orb you get chipped extremely easy

CONCLUSION

Overall I feel like arctozolt is a Pokemon that has a decent place in the metagame, but albeit a small one. It has amazing stab coverage but lacks the oomph to ohko targets (if ur not banded). It's also hard for you to safely get in, so that's also a small issue.

REPLAYS (forgot to save a lot :( but here's some that i saved)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1317947266-foq5yb6xjnry146c6niz5eam7owud7zpw - jellicent swept after decid died
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1317754772 - jellicent stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1317746565 - another gameplay of it
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1315990248 - arctozolt goes IN
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1315970587 - arctozolt snags 2 kills
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1317941073 - this replay shows off some flaws of arctozolt, such as lack of damage output and hazard weakness.