Octillery (QC 1/3)


Octopus

[Overview]
  • mostly outclassed by other waters like gorebyss, seismitoad, etc.
  • great offenses, sitting at 105
  • useful coverage like ice beam, energy ball, and even fire blast
  • ok typing means two weaknesses
  • kind of bulky
  • works best on offense or balanced teams
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Choice Specs
ability: Sniper
nature: Modest
evs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Octillery's best set, simply because Octillery needs the power to break through walls
  • very strong Hydro Pump
  • energy ball provides coverage against stuff like Seismitoad and other water types
  • fire blast hits steel and grass type pokemon
  • ice beam also hits grass types but also hits flying types
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • choice specs is used to make the most of Octillery's great coverage and a good special attack
  • EVs outspeed Alomomola
  • good teammates include Pokemon that can set up entry hazards for octillery such as golem and scolipede, but the shared grass weakness with golem hurts
  • roselia takes down grass and electric types, while providing entry hazards
  • Musharna gives thunder wave support
  • pokemon like Charizard, Serperior, and Jynx appericiate walls being broken down
[Other Options]
  • Choice Specs, but Octillery likes the ability to switch moves
  • non trick room set with maximum investment in speed
  • thunder wave, but octillery is still pretty slow
  • acid spray can lower special defence
  • physical set with Waterfall and Return
  • trick room takes advantage of Octillery's poor speed
[Checks and Counters]
  • most special walls can take octillery, like calm mind musharna
  • Regice can also take Octillery's attacks
  • Dragonair and Altiaria wall Octillery that lack ice beam
  • Lickilicky can take an attack and then wish away the damage
  • Mantine can also take any of Octillery's attacks
  • Roselia can take an attack
  • faster pokemon, such as Shiftry, Electric-types like Zebstrika and Electrode, and Samurott, can take advantage of how Octillery is not that bulky and its poor speed
  • anything else????
 
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-i actually think choice specs is better for this set since it gives octillery the sheer power needed to break through stuff like audino and mandibuzz. maybe you can even drop water spout and run hydro pump plus an additional coverage move with life orb.
-calm mind musharna cannot beat octillery unless its at +1 so it should be moved out of c&c
-ice beam shouldn't be slashed with energy ball as you absolutely need the latter to break through water types
 

WhiteDMist

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Theoretically, I also think that Choice Specs is the best set for Octillery. Trick Room teams are not that great, and the best Trick Room sweepers are generally the ones who can set it up themselves (i.e.- Musharna and Behheyem). I would rather that the Specs set be the actual set and LO Quiet should just get a mention is AC to use with Trick Room support (wouldn't actually recommend a whole team dedicated to it personally, but w.e.). QC will probably discuss this some more anyways.
 
agreeing that choice specs > expert belt/trick room, since trick room in general is really bad and we shouldn't have a set based around it unless the set is for the mon actually using trick room. tr should definitely get a mention in ac though.
Put life orb in oo cos it lets you switch moves and get a reliable power boost unlike expert belt which is situational (also put e-belt in oo if its taken off the main set). Oh and rock blast is a pretty cool move for the physical set. Charge beam can be used to boost octillerys spA which is cool
In the overview, I wouldn't say base 105 offensive stats are 'great'. They're good at best tbh

don't have to listen cos not qc, but those are my 2 cents
 

Blast

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Yeah I agree Specs is the best set, TR sweepers / teams in general are bad unless you can set it up yourself. Specs gives Water Spout maximum potential which is basically its niche, even though it's mostly outdone by Wailord the difference in power is pretty noticable. It also 2HKOes Alomomola with Water Spout after SR which is pretty significant.

Imo the set should be:

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Water Spout
move 2: Surf
move 3: Signal Beam
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Choice Specs
ability: Sniper
nature: Modest
evs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

The EV spread outspeeds Alomomola, while Signal Beam / Ice Beam provide the best overall coverage with Water. Signal Beam covers Grasses (esp. Ludicolo) + Jynx, while Ice Beam hits Roselia and Altaria. Unfortunately as hilarious as Fire Blast is it doesn't actually hit anything its other moves can't, since Grasses are hit by Signal / Ice Beam and everything else is hit by Water Spout / Surf. Energy Ball could also be a possible slash to OHKO Seismitoad, though Octillery has major 4MSS so idk what it could replace.
 
i dont really like those 4 moves since they leave you quite vulnerable to water-types as signal beam simply doesn't do enough to them. one solution to this is to drop water spout and run hydro pump / energy ball / ice beam / fire blast. octillery is too slow imo to make good use of water spout and hydro pump isn't far off in terms of power.
 

soulgazer

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I agree with FLCL, Octillery still 2HKO a lot of walls with Hydro Pump, and while you miss on 2HKO'ing Alomomola with it, you can now easily 2HKO it with Energy Ball. I would also add that Water Spout becomes useless quite quick; Octillery is so slow that it won't be hard hit it hard (its average bulk doesn't help it here either) or cripple it with status. To be honest, Water Spout is also bad since you would need to keep Octillery at full health all the time to fully abuse it, and it's quite hard to do so when its choice lock and is hit by all type of entry hazards.

TLDR I support FLCL's suggestion, and if needed I will post all the calcs I did on IRC
 
I also agree with removing water spout, but the only thing I disagree with about flcls set is fire blast. As dat blast said, signal beam provides much more useful coverage (eg Ludicolo), and its a more reliable way of dealing with Jynx. Unless fire blast gets some important kos on something like Roselia, I don't see a good reason to use it. I'm on phone right now so can't calc
 

soulgazer

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Magical Magmortar The set (and the order of the moves):

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Choice Specs
ability: Sniper
nature: Modest
evs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

My opinion on Fire Blast>Signal Beam is that not only does it only do around 6% less than Signal Beam against Ludicolo (and Ludicolo outspeeds you anyway, so it beats you one on one), Fire Blast also does more against other Grass-types. I also know Ice Beam is there, but the two moves do not only hit Grass-types for good damage, and you also have to keep in mind Signal Beam is kinda weak when it doesn't hit something for super effective damage. Again, it's my opinion, so if everyone else thinks Signal Beam is better, I won't mind!
 
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remove last two points in overview and ac, first two points in oo since they're no longer relevant. add trick room to oo. the other sections could use more content now as well
 

soulgazer

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[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Add some teammates. As you probably realised by now (I don't know if you played with it, but I played around with it and it hits so hard) it can easily beat down wall for its team, so you can pair it with Pokemon that likes the removal of wall (Charizard, Serperior, Jynx, Tauros, etc)! You maybe can also add Thunder Wave support from Musharna I guess.

Do this and I'll check later Magical Magmortar
 

soulgazer

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col49 made me realise the set had too much evs (4 more hp evs that it should) so change it to:

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Fire Blast
item: Choice Specs
ability: Sniper
nature: Modest
evs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

[Checks and Counters]

Add that faster Pokemon that can hit it hard can easily beat it as Octillery isn't that bulky and also has horrible Speed, such as Shiftry, Samurott, fast Electric-types, etc.

I trust you to add these correctly, so


QC 1/3 Magical Magmortar
 
I think it should be mentioned that Octillery is one of the best Baton Pass receivers in the game, due to its great coverage, good power, and especially ability in Suction Cups. I Don't want to discuss if Baton Pass is a good strategy or not, just that the best receiver or at least one of the best should at least get a mention of this.

This is something Treecko said in Victreebel's analysis:

Yes, sun teams need a lot of support, but so do rain teams; it's a playstyle of its own, and not giving its best sweeper a set for it is a complete disservice to the playstyle.
I think the same for Octillery and Baton Pass-based teams (I know Baton Pass is worse than sun though...)

On a side note, change Other Options removing the mention of Choice Specs since that's the set.
 
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[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

mention that trick room support can be used with octillery as it does function well under trick room; just make sure you're clear that trick room itself isn't a very good playstyle in nu

also mention expert belt and life orb as alternate item options so that you can switch moves, but say that they just dont have the power that you need and get from specs

mention surf as a more reliable water move, but octillery needs all the power it can get. surf still a good option though

with an ev spread of 64 hp / 252 spA / 192 speed with timid it can outspeed standard golurk, but once again modest is preferred for as much power as possible.

[Other Options]

  • non trick room set with maximum investment in speed
dont specifically say its not trick room since thats not the set any more. in fact, probably remove this point altogether as max speed doesnt outspeed anything notable except max modest eelektross.
  • physical set with Waterfall and Return
also put seed bomb here as its good coverage along the same lines as energy ball

toxic to help wear down irritating special walls (mantine, regice, ludicolo, lickilicky etc.)

psychic as an alternate coverage option, but doesnt provide any useful kos since basically all fighting and poison types are fairly frail specially anyway (except roselia but you have ice beam/fire blast for that)

[Checks and Counters]

mention electabuzz before zebstrika and electrode, as it can not only outspeed and ohko, but can actually take a hit from octillery on the switch in. it lives surf and hydro pump (though doesnt live h pump 100% of the time after sr)

combine most of the points there into one since you just list special walls. regice, lickilicky, roselia etc can all be added into the first post as special walls. also remove cm mushy like flcl said in the first post

any strong neutral stab move will do a lot of damage to octillery since it isnt very bulky (fighting types, psychic types, etc)
  • physical set with Waterfall and Return
seed bomb is also good for physical along the same lines as energy ball for good coverage


add this and ill check back
 

WhiteDMist

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I think it should be mentioned that Octillery is one of the best Baton Pass receivers in the game, due to its great coverage, good power, and especially ability in Suction Cups. I Don't want to discuss if Baton Pass is a good strategy or not, just that the best receiver or at least one of the best should at least get a mention of this.

I think the same for Octillery and Baton Pass-based teams (I know Baton Pass is worse than sun though...)
You can mention this with Suction Cups in OO, but I don't think BP recipients deserve to be noted anywhere else. The difference is that weather sweepers only require a single turn to sweep, while Octillery kind of needs a whole team dedicated to collecting boosts for it. Mention Life Orb/Expert Belt in OO.
 

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