SM OU Offensive Rain with one barely used Pokemon

Hi Guys!


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Presenting a kinda standard Rain Team with one unusual Pokemon. Please, before closing the thread as "another casual team" hear me out and read the reasoning behind Zoroark. She really is here for a purpose and not just for style points.

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Pelipper (F) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Hurricane
- U-Turn

Staple of Rain teams. Self-explanatory item, spread is more Physically bulky, because of the treats I want it to get a slow U-Turn against. I need Defog on it to keep Zoroark's Sash. Hurricane in Rain is too good to pass on and slow U-Turn is a great way of gaining momentum and bringing out sweepers easily. Therefore there is no further room for Scald - also I don't really feel like needing it. However I may change Hurricane for it - please advise.


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Swampert-Mega (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252Atk / 4 SpD / 252Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
Another staple, which doesn't require further explanation. Max EVs into Attack and Speed. Rocks are on him, because I have no other mon to put them on and Swampert doesn't really need more coverage. Main sweeper of the team.

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Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA/ 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Swampert is a Physical sweeper, here's a Special one. Another typical spread, pretty much self-explanatory. I run both Surf and Hydro Pump, because Pump can KO things Surf can't, but I'd rather not risk missing - if I can afford to lock in Surf, it is an attack of choice.

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Tornadus-Therian @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Taunt
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast

I wanted to have a bulky pivot that can hit back, as well as another Defogger. Tornadus fits the role perfectly. It packs STAB Hurricane with perfect Accuracy in Rain. It also has a way to hit hard with Fightinium Z (Ferrothorn is a threat and Tornadus is a switch-in to it). It also kills Tyranitar, which is annoying turning the Rain off. Ability to come out multiple times and Defog supports Zoroark's Sash. It's also a counter to Kartana, as it can live a hit from it and OHKO with Hurricane. Taunt to fight against stall teams and popular Rockers/Spikers. I went full on defensive with max Speed, because I don't need more attacking power.

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Zoroark (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk/ 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Counter

Now here's a big twist! I had problems with Physical Setup Sweepers, like Charizard X, Hawlucha or even Kartana. I was looking for a solution and noticed (while reviewing another team of mine, I don't put Zoroark on every team ;)) that Zoroark can run Counter, having really poor Defences, what normally holds it back. But here it's an advantage! Whenever I face a Physical Sweeper Zoroark can come in disguised as something that won't scare them out, take a hit and get a KO with Counter in return. I really can't express how many Hawluchas, Kartanas and Zards I killed this way, while otherwise they'd probably sweep me. On top of that Zoroark can sometimes go for 1-2 Swords Dance and sweep with a combination of Knock Off and Sucker Punch. After 2 SD's it's just clicking buttons and picking up KO's. Even if I use it for Counter scenario, it still lives with 1 HP and can pick up some damage with Sucker Punch on the mon that revenge kills it, oppening the path for Swampert or Kingdra.

Before you take the team down, because it runs very rarely used mon, please take a look at a list of threats properly executed Zorark can counter and tell me if I have a better alternative:

  • Hawlucha
  • Charizard X
  • Kartana
  • Mega Alakazam
  • Mega Swampert
  • Mega Mawile
  • Landorus-T
  • Kyurem-B (Physical)
  • Mega Scizor
  • Azumarill
  • Tapu Bulu
  • Blacephalon
  • Tyranitar
  • Hoopa-U
  • Mega Medicham
  • Mega Lopunny
  • Mega Pinsir
  • Gyarados
... and more.

Of course I am not living a dream - Counter requires keeping Rocks/Spikes away and usually also a sack, because Zoroark can't switch into an attack. But I have ways to execute it and people really fall for it.

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Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 238 Def / 22 Spe
Calm Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Fleur Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
The team doesn't really have mons that can come out to take a hit. Tornadus sure, but it's only him. I don't like risking Pelipper, because it's essential to the team and Swampert, while bulky, is preferred to come out safely, not on a hit. So obviously my thoughts went to AV Magearna. It's a great mon all in all, very bulky and scary. It has amazing coverage and on top of that it completes my slow VolTurn with Pelipper allowing me to bring out Kingdra/Swampert/Zoroark safely.

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Rotom Wash - this little mon is a pain. It can live hits from Pert and burn it in response. It has Electric coverage for Pelipper and Torn and Zoroark does nothing to it. My only hope is to hit it with Draco Meteor, but it's far from optimal solution.

Ferrothorn - doesn't die to any hit from Swampert or Kingdra and sets up hazards, which nulify Zoroark. My counter is Tornadus, which firstly Taunts it and then kills with a combination of Hurricane and All-Out Pummeling.

Tangrowth - not really a threat, but something that allows my opponent to play around with me. It lives every move from Pert and Kingdra and then I am forced to switch out into Tornadus. At this point they can do whatever they want, because I am forced to do so. And unless I predict properly I can't bring out Pert safely anymore. Predicting however is very hard, because a Grass move can always come out and Pert dies.


Kingdra (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

Tornadus-Therian @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Taunt
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast

Magearna @ Assault Vest
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 238 SpD / 22 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Fleur Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch

Zoroark (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Counter

Pelipper (F) @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Hurricane
- U-turn

Swampert-Mega (M) @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

All comments and advices will be highly appreciated. Thank you!
 

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I would suggest to put Ferrothorn over Magearna for checking electric types better (especially Rotom-W and Tapu Koko), it also checks Greninja-Ash more reliably and sets up spikes for Mega-Swampet helping him to sweep more easily.
The main drawback of this change is that now you lack of momentum so id put U-Turn over Taunt on Tornadus, but its up to your preference.

Nice team anyway, im sure sash counter Zoroark helps in a lot of cases, watch out for entry hazards
 
I would suggest to put Ferrothorn over Magearna for checking electric types better (especially Rotom-W and Tapu Koko), it also checks Greninja-Ash more reliably and sets up spikes for Mega-Swampet helping him to sweep more easily.
The main drawback of this change is that now you lack of momentum so id put U-Turn over Taunt on Tornadus, but its up to your preference.

Nice team anyway, im sure sash counter Zoroark helps in a lot of cases, watch out for entry hazards
Thank you for your advice!

I really don't like dropping Taunt. I may not have Spikes or a Scarfer on every team, but if there's something I want to have on pretty much every single one of them, as long as it's not HO, it's Taunt for sure. It's also another way to check Hazards. I may however drop Focus Blast for U-Turn and instead Fightinium Z try to go with Flyinium Z. I'll test out different variants, thanks.

I was also thinking about Excadrill. First of all I don't really like Hazards on my side, as you noticed. And it's really hard sometimes to Defog theirs and keep my own (that's also why I didn't put Thorn initially and instead went with Mag - I'd have to Defog their Rocks and only then I can set up Spikes). So I was considering a Spinner - in which case I could drop Defog on Torn and still have that nasty Flying/Fighting coverage. Excadrill is a Steel type, like Mag and Thorn and can set up Rocks, while spinning opponent's ones away, what helps Swampert similarly to Thorn's Spikes. However I guess it will make me even more vulnerable to Rotom and Ash-Gren (even though Gren is not that big of a problem). Opinion?
 
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Have you considered Sash Alakazam over zoroark? Magic guard means you always have sash intact regardless of hazards and it can revenge all the above mons you mentioned except for MegaZam

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def
- Counter
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic
 
Have you considered Sash Alakazam over zoroark? Magic guard means you always have sash intact regardless of hazards and it can revenge all the above mons you mentioned except for MegaZam

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def
- Counter
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic
Yes, I did, however in Zoroark I see 3 main advantages:
1) Sucker Punch. After Counter, no matter if I go with Zam or Zoroark, the next thing that comes out is something faster to finish it. Zam will just die, Zoroark, while most likely dying too, will still do some damage in return. In other words Zam takes out 1 mon, Zoroark deals with 1,5. It kills Mega Zam and Blacephalon too. Also my team lacks priority. Sure, I am still very fast with Swift Swimmers and even Torn, but priority is important.

2) Illusion. I don't want to scare them out. Zam is well-known as a good revenge killer, is faster than many threats that don't boos their Speed (SD Kartana) and even Counter sets are something most people heard of. Since I can't bluff Mega, because no one sane would run Mega Zam over Mega Pert on Rain, I guess Counter set may be kinda predictable. While in Zoroark case you not only have to know the set, you also have to read through Illusion.

3) Setup sweep possibility. Yes, it's a rare case. But happens. Sometimes I go for Swords Dance, they switch out, because they are scared of Swampert or Magearna. I can go for second SD, since I have Sash. At this point I am most likely 1 HP, + 3 Attack. And with this I can sweep. I have Knock Off for slower mons and Sucker Punch for faster. Of course I am not banking on this scenario. It happens usually against inexperienced players or teams without a mon that can live +3 Knock Off. But it adds another possibility. Zam is one-dimensional. I just felt Zoroark can do the same stuff Zam can, but with a bonus.
 
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Ferrothorn is a rain wall you could consider running to help your team not be so squishy.
Yup, I know this and for past few days I was extensively testing Thorn instead Mag. But I found few issues with my build:
  • Lack of slow VolTurn was a pain. Yes, I put the U-Turn on Tornadus to still have 2 U-Turners, but Torn is fast. That meant U-Turning into my sweepers was exposing them to a hit. I didn't like it. I prefer likes of Pelipper and Mag to take the hit and Kingdra/Pert to enter for free.
  • Dropping Taunt/Fightinium Z (I tried both variants) from Torn made opposing Ferrothorns an inconvenience. Sure, I can sit with my own Thorn against theirs, but it's not a good solution. My Tornadus was designed as a dedicated counter to Thorn and by adding Thorn to my rooster I made it being worse at this role. Yes, I solved Rotom issue, but created another one instead.
Right now I am testing Energy Ball on AV Mag. I don't really need Ice Beam, because both of my Rain mons have Ice coverage. Rotom can't really do much to Mag either way, so with this change Mag is not only a safe switch-in to this annoying wash, but also carries a move for it.

At the moment the team looks the same with Mag's attacks being changed to:
Flash Cannon
Fleur Cannon
Energy Ball
Volt Switch​

I'll give it some time for testing and see if it works smoothly. I may also come back to Ferrothorn if results won't be satisfaying, just have to figure out right attacks on other mons in such case.
 
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