Of course spectators! That's the whole idea! :]
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Other Offensive vs. Defensive Project [Round 3]
- Thread starter The Shellder Smuggler
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Of course spectators! That's the whole idea! :]
Thanks, Smuggler, I'll stick around, then.
Lovely set; I'd just like to see a few calcs to support the use of Outrage over Dragon Claw. While I'm sure that either move would 2HKO Heatran on a switch in at +2, yet there are still a decent amount of defensive threats (Ferro, Skarm, Hippo, Clefable, Whimsicott etc.) who would enjoy coming in to trap you, given the opportunity.
2HKOing after a boost isn't what we're going for. 2HKOing without a boost or OHKOing after a boost (difference is relevant factoring Leftovers) and outspeeding is what we used for the definition of counter. Even though we understand running Outrage is risky, it's very important because, in reality, Steels mostly lose to Flare Blitz, leaving Azumarill, Sylveon etc as victims for Charizards teammates. Also, Outrage lets you switch up moves without being confused if it fails due to the immunity, so whatever can not outspeed and KO (Sylveon, Skarm, Clefable, Whimsicott from your list) all die the next turn and we can Roost off damage given an opporotunity. Skarmory and Ferrothorn are relevant points, but it's very likely that you would not go for Outrage if they are healthy enough to take it. It's just generally accepted you lose to Heatran and Hippowdon regardless.
While not everything relevant, here are some calcs from BurningFury101:
Chansey
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 504-594 (71.5 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 759-894 (107.8 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mandibuzz
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 264-312 (62.2 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 399-471 (94.1 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Mega Venusaur
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 318-375 (87.3 - 103%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 480-565 (131.8 - 155.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Quagsire
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 229-271 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thanks for obliging. I will say, however, that Encore exists, so Whimsicott can capitalize on 3/4ths of your set, and Skarm is not immune to Dragon moves, merely resistant.
Honestly, I have very little trouble with Hippo even with +1 Zard, considering how many people opt for the Mixed Wall set, but I look forward to seeing your Hippo/Heatran answers in future rounds.
While I don't want to give away what we're planning right now because the other team can see it, the problem with Hippo is, they can Earthquake Charizard X to the point it can no longer switch in. I would rather leave that up to teammates simply because Charizard X is a huge part of this team (of course, as of now, the only part) and allowing it to take so much damage is counterproductive.
Just pointing out now that I'm now banning cores from being nominated. It would be unfair to skip a round for another team.
These are the new nominations:
Defensive team's set #1
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Download, Bold Nature
252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpDef
- Tri Attack
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
Offensive team's set #2
y.cobano.como.yo (Kyurem-Black) @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 52 HP / 204 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
Offensive team's set #3
Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
Discuss! :]
Defensive team's set #1
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Download, Bold Nature
252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpDef
- Tri Attack
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
Offensive team's set #2
y.cobano.como.yo (Kyurem-Black) @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 52 HP / 204 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash Nature
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
Offensive team's set #3
Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Mild Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
Discuss! :]
Offensive Deoxys-S is an awesome choice; I've been running one lately with a defensive core and it's been so helpful, nobody expects it to do anything other than set up rocks and die.
Also, working on the defensive side, I'll note that it feels a lot harder to make viable defensive spreads that have to stand on their own; defensive play is so much about synergy between sets, whereas sweepers can really just stand alone and punish stuff. That said, that's one hard-ass Porygon.
Also, working on the defensive side, I'll note that it feels a lot harder to make viable defensive spreads that have to stand on their own; defensive play is so much about synergy between sets, whereas sweepers can really just stand alone and punish stuff. That said, that's one hard-ass Porygon.
Ok, the offensive team is done with their nominations for this round.
Bisharp @ Life orb
Abillity: Defiant
Evs: 252Atk 252spd 4 HP
Nature: Adamant
-Pursuit
-Sucker punch
-knock off
-iron head
Landorus-I @ Life Orb
nature : Timid
evs : 252 spA /252 spe / 4 spD
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
Discuss, even though there isn't any discussion ;-;
Bisharp @ Life orb
Abillity: Defiant
Evs: 252Atk 252spd 4 HP
Nature: Adamant
-Pursuit
-Sucker punch
-knock off
-iron head
Landorus-I @ Life Orb
nature : Timid
evs : 252 spA /252 spe / 4 spD
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
Discuss, even though there isn't any discussion ;-;
Is it unfair if they use each of their pokemon to counter our pokemon because we are done?
Remember, when the voting begins between the forumers they will be voting for one set out of the five you chose. This means that they can try all they want, but they may not have their preferred counter set voted on.
Signups will be open for Round 2 next week. For now, you can discuss the given sets.
Oh yeah! I know that, but thought that it would be rude to blame only the opponent team.:-P
I just have to ask the defensive team why They went with download and tri attack over trace and Thunderbolt, trace gives u more switch in opportunities and Thunderbolt gives u Boltbeam coverage
Against an offensive team, what are you going to be able to trace that's useful aside from Aerialate or Protean? Also defensive teams lack any ability to hit back normally, but in conjunction with Download a STAB tri attack brutalizes most offense. Tbolt is only really missed for Steels.
I see then
Due to inactivity, the following members will be kicked from their respective groups:
Fr33dom
Waltz01
Arhan
Exeguttive
Erick17
Those who would like to leave the next round, please message me personally.
Fr33dom
Waltz01
Arhan
Exeguttive
Erick17
Those who would like to leave the next round, please message me personally.
To keep the discussion kicking, I'm curious as to why RotomPoison and the offensive gang opted for a timid nature on Landorus, as the rest of the team's theme seems to relish its hard hitting approach. I agree that Landorus' speed tier is exceedingly useful, but Lando remains the offensive team's most susceptible member to priority moves, and might appreciate the extra power behind its CM boosts. Assuming that Team Defense is considering quasi-offensive options such as Assault Vest Azumarril (SpDef spread), Defensive Talonflame, or ResTalk Gyarados, they would create some opportunities to hit back after some bouts of stall, considering the current opposition.
I don't know exactly why, but iirc from our chat, chesnaught had to do something with this.
On a serious note, it is possible that the defensive team may use some pokemon to specifically to creep our pokemon. So, we decided that making custom spreads for each entry is unnecessary.
Last edited:
The week has passed and all groups are expected to send me their submissions by the end of today.
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