Metagame On The Radar

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Take this opportunity to share your thoughts and opinions on Jirachi, as well as what course of action you think the council should take on this issue. Feel free to also reference tiering policy when backing up your arguments.

Please keep the conversation in this thread civil and respectful; arguing and flaming doesn't bring us any closer to resolving the problems that will be brought up in this thread, and won't be tolerated. One liners will be deleted.
Well my thoughts on Jirachi sorta start with its design. Nintindeo approved a cute mon with stubby legs, and oddly enough most people don't know Jirachi has a 3rd eye. The littlle curve on its belly contains this eye, referred to as its "true" eye. The fact that its a cute star with legs and comet tails is quite cool on its own. Only being awake sever out of every 1000 years, is kinda dope. Granting wishes during this time too. With Jirachi's true eye absorbing energy from a comet that allows it to hibernate.

My opinions are more some completive based rather than appreince based, sorry smely :( Jirachi's ability to be able to double the effects of moves fits well with its character, but in 1v1 where hax 9/10 is a good thing, it helps a lot. Being able to make your opponent not get to play the game is always very fun when you're not the one being affected. That being said, when you do try this and you can't flinch them it makes you sad. "I wanna take away every aspect of my opponent getting a chance to do something because they wanna win - jirachi flinch users" Now is this fair...most pokemon isnt, but thats why we play the game because its nice to be able to use whatever we want. There is the issue tho... "play" Not being allowed to do anything but sit there and hope you can play isnt healthy...even if you do get a move off.

As for what issue this needs to be taken with Jirachi. And indefinite hibernation for 1000 years sounds fair. Let Jirachi have a nap and we can remember the times and joy of losing tours because of this foot tall pokemon :3
 

Here Comes Team Charm!

Perhaps the stars
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Going down the VR, the following sets can reliably beat scarf, band, and WP jirachi (considering several coverage moves for the choiced sets). I'm only considering sets that currently get usage, so nothing like max defense dragapult.

(B- and up)

Zeraora
Choiced Volcanion
Mixed Arcanine
LO bulldoze EQ landoT
Regieleki
Custap Garchomp
Heatran
Moltres-Galar
Volcarona
Incineroar

Nearly all of those pokemon are Fire- or Electric-types, and the ones that aren't are Dark- and Ground-types instead. A water/ground would cover most of these threats by virtue of its typing alone, as would a bulky dragon like Zygarde or Kyurem.

Or you could just run a rachi tailor-made to handle its own checks. The following set beats Regieleki and Moltres-Galar and matches up well against Volcanion and Incineroar. It also handles Volcarona, unless they click Sub t1 (which is suicide against any other rachi set).

Jirachi @ Power Herb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 20 HP / 236 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Encore

Other things I could see rachi start running would be light screen (for heatran, specs volc, and other slow special mons), shuca icy wind for chomper and lando, skill swap (or rain dance water pulse, lmao) for heatran and perhaps zeraora, probably the toxic/protect/sub sets that have been catching on for gene and zyg too, and perhaps some imprison+mimic set like bopher's used.

Rachi's reliable counters are already few in number and vulnerable to a handful of the same mons. As players figure out what lures do or don't work, answering rachi is going to be even harder. With WC coming up, I don't see any reason to leave it around to wreck havoc.
 
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Think the other thread was enough to discuss but gotta do it the ol' formal way. I'm gonna use my own 1v1 guidelines and not 6v6.

a) Restricting Preview
While diverse sets aren't something that justify a Pokemon ban, it should still be taken into consideration. In Jirachi's case, this point pushes it over the edge, for the reasons that it can run Choice Scarf, Choice Band, and the ID+Stored Power with little to no opportunity loss. While a lot of sets can be distinguishable at preview (see, Arcanine AV or Band), Jirachi sets really aren't cause it can camouflage it very well. All 3 of the sets have a lot of overlapping matchup with lowers the opportunity loss as much as possible, while every set adds Pokemon of its choice to the list. The main difference is that, ID+SP Rachi gets blocked by Dark-type Pokemon such as Tyranitar, and Urshifu-Dark, but the Choice Band set muscle through them easily with Iron Head or Play Rough. Choice Scarf Jirachi also alleviates some matchup issues for example against Zeraora. Zeraora cannot click Knock Off or it will lose to Stored Power, and if it clicks Plasma Fist on a potential scarf it might not be able to break through anymore. This whole set ambiguity creates a lot of coinflips on preview, to the point where even if you click the "potential" counter, it might not work too. Also also also serene grace. Trashuny has used a successful Toxic Sub Jirachi + Iron Head which can put pressure on Incineroar, Specs Volcanion, and non-Choice Band Arcanine which loses to this set, specially if Jirachi can get only one singular flinch which is 60%, making the team preview more and more dicey.

b) Restricting Teambuilding
Jirachi extremely restricts teambuilding as it has only a few counters namely Incineroar, Assault Vest Arcanine with both Flare Blitz and Burn Up, Scarf/Specs Volcanion, Roseli Urshifu, and Heatran, which as mentioned can lose to more Jirachi variations. This Pokemon has been explored way too much that checking it effectively has been a burden and as a person that recently built for LT + the opinion of other LT people it is really a nightmare to check effectively. Imagine having you Fire-type or Ground-type not being able to beat a Steel-type then having to utilize a second Pokemon and then cram everything in the last Pokemon.

c) Jirachi is actually more broken than Genesect
In Genesect's case, it restricts teambuilding by making you run a Fire-type, for Jirachi even the Fire-type cannot always beat Jirachi. So its extremely more restrictive in the teambuilding side and preview side. so ye lol quickban jirachi.
 

clerica

fly me up to Jupiter
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:ss/necrozma:

Hihi, we are back once again, this time to discuss Necrozma. Since the Power Construct ban, Necrozma has been on the rise with much of this due to the recent increase in set diversity. Where previously Necrozma ran mostly Choice Specs, special Life Orb or stall Stored Power sets, we now are seeing an increase in sets such as Power Herb, Choice Band, and even physical Life Orb in this year's Premier League which were previously only theoretical sets. These new sets have been able to beat many of Necrozma's previously perceived counters such as Volcarona leaving very few consistent counters to Necrozma, and leading many people to feel that action against Necrozma is deserved.

As it stands, the council is looking to address Necrozma by the end of this week. Options for actions are looking like most likely a normal suspect test, although we are keeping our options open and if support for a quick ban is enough it would be considered. Take this opportunity to share your thoughts and opinions on Necrozma, as well as what course of action you think the council should take on this issue. Feel free to also reference tiering policy when backing up your arguments.

Please keep the conversation in this thread civil and respectful; arguing and flaming doesn't bring us any closer to resolving the problems that will be brought up in this thread, and won't be tolerated. One liners will be deleted.

Finally, since this is an urgent matter we would like to have this all done by Friday, 11:59 PM GMT-5
 

rumia

everlasting red
is a Pre-Contributor
Necrozma's always been a problematic mon conceptually with its sheer bulk and ability further cementing its capacity to tank hits and fire back on either side of the spectrum. Solid answers have slowly whittled down to, in my opinion, one mon that outright walls it while still being offensively threatening enough to 2hko it, Urshifu-S (although I'm willing to hear any other sort of 100% answers to it which I'm not entirely aware of). With its sheer versatility limiting teambuilding at an exceptionally important time (during Premier League) I'd like to propose a quick ban with a reflection post-PL. Letting it continue to plague builders during the biggest tournament of the year may not be in the playerbase's best interest.
 
An idiots opinion of Necrozma when on vacation:
Honest no idea what it does. It's Uber forms are dumb like it being in 1v1. So good it beats Urshifus. Idk how but I could probably figure out something. This is very urgent as smely said. So urgent I had to stop my trip to tell you it needs to be banned. Like too much creativity. It's like RPS but the scissors have a sniper scope now. Terrible terrible Mon. Listen to smely socks ban this to save 1v1. Become a true 1v1 activist!
 
A quickban seems incredibly reactionary to me. New sets that had just been previously speculated about have been put into practice with absolutely no time for the meta to adapt. Necrozma has absolutely massive opportunity cost between sets which leaves the list of mons that check most sets fairly long. You also have lot of (good) hard counters SpDef Arom, AV Regidrago, Yawn Sylv, Urshifu-SS, Toxic Cresselia, Petaya Volcarona, Moltres-Galar*, ID Corsola-G, Hydregion, and I'm sure some low tier stall pokemon but I'm not advocating for the use of em.
*Moltres-G on comp currently doesn't bulk for Meteor Beam but it's not a huge investment to do so.

I don't think Necrozma is currently broken nor has it been given enough time. I don't like the idea of a resuspect either because when are you gonna have a timeframe to properly test it because you don't want it to drastically change the meta of a tour or be tested in a meta where you can only play SS on ladder.
 

Trashuny

Banned deucer.
A Necrozma quickban just doesn't feel right to me, I feel like it has enough meta counterplay already and some off-meta stuff if you tinker around a bit while teambuilding (rise of Krookodile, for example). Furthermore, it doesn't have the same restrictiveness on team compositions that something like Snorlax or Genesect has, where Clefable and Arcanine usage respectively immediately fell off a cliff after the bans. I think a 2 week suspect isn't really a big deal.

What does worry me is the physical movepool, though. Being able to rock blast Volcarona, brick break Tyranitar and x-scissor Zarude is pretty concerning. But a top tier poke in 1v1 having multiple viable sets is pretty much the norm at this point.

The pro of a necrozma quickban now and test after the 1v1pl is that we can see which meta we like more, I guess. Also, banning necrozma probably wouldn't have many negative effects. It is just is really good on its own, while not keeping anything notably in check. But I still think a normal suspect is probably the way to go.

Also, gens 5-7 all have pokes more broken than swsh Necrozma but that isn't really relevant to this conversation.
 
I’ll make this quick

Can beat a lot of shit. For a while it’s main set was specs (can someone please explain why the fuck this thing gets a 160 BP Hyper Beam and too add insult to injury, it can’t miss) but has other sets. But with physical variations being more present, it deal with the checks it has (as Trashuny mentioned) is a bit concerning. Another minor thing is that it’s other signature move can be either physical or special depending on its ev investment into attack or special attack so it doesn’t lack a strong physical psychic move if you do run physical. On top with a somewhat annoying ability. Very annoying to prep for, on preview, and to actually fight necro it seems. A quickban imo would be asinine although I wouldn’t be opposed to a suspect test.
 

Murm

formerly Murman
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
For most of the bans in SS that I have been around for, I have felt fairly neutral. Snorlax, Victini, Genesect, Zygarde, most of them I didn't care what way they went. Necrozma, however, is something I want gone from the tier as fast as possible. There are only 2 mons I haven't been able to crack with Necrozma, being Urshifu and Krookodile. It doesn't even have to sacrifice all that much to beat a lot of things, though of course it can be very noticeable. All the way back in May 2021, I made a post about some standout mons, Necrozma being a big part of it. I showcased CB, but it can do almost everything. It has insane stats, an insane ability, and an insane movepool. I am in favor of basically any option that can get Necrozma out of the meta soon. It just feels way too overwhelming both on ladder and in tours (evident though PL), that it should be banned.
 

Here Comes Team Charm!

Perhaps the stars
is a Community Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
A quickban seems incredibly reactionary to me. New sets that had just been previously speculated about have been put into practice with absolutely no time for the meta to adapt. Necrozma has absolutely massive opportunity cost between sets which leaves the list of mons that check most sets fairly long. You also have lot of (good) hard counters SpDef Arom, AV Regidrago, Yawn Sylv, Urshifu-SS, Toxic Cresselia, Petaya Volcarona, Moltres-Galar*, ID Corsola-G, Hydregion, and I'm sure some low tier stall pokemon but I'm not advocating for the use of em.
*Moltres-G on comp currently doesn't bulk for Meteor Beam but it's not a huge investment to do so.

I don't think Necrozma is currently broken nor has it been given enough time. I don't like the idea of a resuspect either because when are you gonna have a timeframe to properly test it because you don't want it to drastically change the meta of a tour or be tested in a meta where you can only play SS on ladder.
Hydreigon loses to band outrage with any currently existent spread (specs doesn't ohko and gets ohkod, haban doesn't 2hko and gets 2hkod). SpDef Aroma just dies to LO psyshock sets. Yawn Sylveon has a really bad matchup vs LO CM necrozma as well, dying to a +1 prismatic laser and requiring 3 sleep turns (voice voice beam or tears voice voice) to break spd-boosted necrozma (before getting into potential sub mindgames). Petaya volcarona would have to run endure to not die to band rock blast (which of course brings its own share of prediction issues).

Note that none of this is theorycrafting: a lot of it is just people underestimating the sheer power of LO or the lure potential of band, as they are currently ran. A lot of the sets you name can be conceivably cheesed (fast band outrage for drago? rest sets for toxic cress? A return to stored power stall to break past corsola?

The meta might adapt, and if it does then necro can adapt back just as hard. Urshifu and maybe gmolt are the only hard counters where I'm confident they will remain hard counters, everything else can be cheesed by the week's new lureset. And even if the meta finally adapts to give us proper hard counters, do we really want to run maxdef specs hydreigon just to salvage this one matchup that was considered trivial mere weeks ago?

It seems to me that keeping necrozma unbanned will make it, if not overpowered, extremely overcentralizing, with a larger and larger focus on those counters that prove immune to cheese. I can understand the decision to not want a mid-PL quickban, but the notion that necrozma isn't a problem at all is mind-boggling to me.
 
The things that need to be said have been said already, so here's just the general thing that all 1v1 tiering discussion eventually comes down to:

What makes a mon good in 1v1 is the ability to take hits and do damage, as well as being somewhat unpredictable (shocker I know). That or the ability to just invalidate stuff entirely as was showcased by the early problem children of mew, sableye and mimikyu, but those are a different story alltogether.
All the other banned mons were simply banned on account of dealing too much damage or taking hits too well or being too unpredictable, or some combination of those aspects. Snorlax could take too many hits with its huge bulk and do too much damage with belly drum or cb, victini did too much damage with v-create and had a billion sets, dn and zyg are other easy examples, etc. etc.

Looking at zyg then, choice items or set-up combined with its strong stabs do what might be considered "too much damage", having basically no weakness due to prism armor makes it take hits very well, and its unpredictability was stagnant at first but everyone agrees now that it can run basically any item and attack from both sides, giving strong victini vibes.
In light of this it seems most people agree that zyg is simply too good to exist in 1v1. It doesn't break the game entirely, and it has an albeit small pool of actual counters, which is why it was maybe not considered broken for a while, but just like the banned mons before it, it is probably simply too good.

Now the question of what to do with it should probably be mainly asked to the current PL SS players, as those are the ones directly affected by whatever action will be taken. In my personal (undrafted) opinion, I hate quickbans in general and resuspects don't really make up for that since, realistically, the resuspect will not change anything, however if there is general agreement throughout the playerbase as a whole and the PL players specifically it might be the best for the greater good in this specific case.

also free Marshy Kappa
 
Necrozma is insane, but:
We can't keep banning* every slightly centralizing mon, if we do all teams will look the same by 1v1 WC and that would suck. Try Unbanning something? Find a different Solution, ban Prismatic Laser, Photon Geysir just pls stop taking away everything, i already feel like 50% of the 50% of natdex mons that are available in Gen 8 are banned. Also insert here what vrji said about quickbans and resuspects, ty.

by the way:
:vikavolt:
I'M A JET VROOM VROOM!
Vikavolt wishes you an awesome day!

Also: Hi Heyman <3
 
A quickban seems incredibly reactionary to me. New sets that had just been previously speculated about have been put into practice with absolutely no time for the meta to adapt. Necrozma has absolutely massive opportunity cost between sets which leaves the list of mons that check most sets fairly long. You also have lot of (good) hard counters SpDef Arom, AV Regidrago, Yawn Sylv, Urshifu-SS, Toxic Cresselia, Petaya Volcarona, Moltres-Galar*, ID Corsola-G, Hydregion, and I'm sure some low tier stall pokemon but I'm not advocating for the use of em.
just to add onto hctc stored power beats av drago (with moonlight), toxic cress (with rest), gorsola & volcarona (with moonlight, excluding absurd bug buzz drops). yawn sylv has to 50/50 sub necro (& very specially bulky sub cm lo necro just wins always).

the only three pokemon i'd trust to beat necro right now are urshifu-single, moltres-galar, & krookodile. even looking at moltg in particular, its pretty techable with (admittedly unviable) shit like av + rock blast. necrozma simply has too much set variability and too few hard counters to be reasonable. furthermore, many of them lose to similar teammates - all three "actual" counters i mentioned are dark types, and most of the basically hard counters are vulnerable to fairies. in particular, every single pokemon that you mentioned except yawn sylv loses to liquidation bd azumarill, for example.

(disclaimer: i am not in pl.)
for possible solutions, i think a week-long vote / "suspect" for pl players only could be possible to expedite the suspecting process. i personally feel like it has to go ASAP but i do see a lot of opposition from players significantly better than me. quickban mid-pl seems a bit premature and reactionary but a actual suspect takes way too long mid-pl.
i am larping
 
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The Official Glyx

Banned deucer.
Necrozma is pretty nutty. I predicted long ago that it'd be a sleeper threat if people started experimenting with sets beyond specs, but never could I have imagined things would come to where they are now- Suffice to say, I don't think Necrozma should stay in the tier. I won't really go too in-depth into what makes Necrozma bannable since the posts above and my aside below say more than enough on the matter.

When it comes to the best route on approaching its removal, I think the move here should be a suspect test. While people like to complain about the notion of suspecting during team tours and how they theoretically would result in people who carry their teams not being able to get reqs and lowering turnout as a result, the reality of the matter is actually quite the opposite, as we can see with the Snorlax suspect which happened during last PL getting 40 voters, as opposed to the Genesect suspect pre-WC getting 29, and the Power Construct suspect getting 30. If the only other reason for not suspecting things during team tours is because people don't wanna walk and chew gum at the same time, I think it stands clear how weak the argument is. It'd be one thing if there were Ladder Tour cycles going on or if the result of the suspect would come right in the middle of playoffs, but from where we are in PL now, playoffs are pretty far removed from the situation, and there is of course not an LT going on.

As for the notion of quickbanning, I don't think it makes sense here for a number of reasons. First and foremost, the metagame just isn't in an early development phase, nor are things really still staggered from any recent major bans or changes. Second, It's not like Necrozma suddenly became problematic overnight; Week 2 of PL was a major turning point for it to be sure, though its developments were things that people were already theorycrafting and using on the downlow themselves, Week 2 simply shined a spotlight on said developments. Third, there isn't another suspect going on. Fourth, even if we did have near universal spoken support to boot Necrozma, that spoken support doesn't necessarily always translate to how a suspect vote may turn out; a perfect example of this is the Power Construct suspect, where a notable majority of people in posts and discussion leaned towards not banning it, but then the actual suspect vote still ended in its removal; to put it simply, we cannot take any amount of spoken support for or against something as a forgone conclusion of what the people who actually get reqs would end up voting.

To sum it all up, I believe Necrozma should be banned, and that that ban should happen via suspect test.

Also, as an aside regarding the perennial argument with each of these discussions that banning too many centralizing pokemon creates a "slippery slope" or inevitably makes the meta dumber, I think it bears understanding what the purpose of banning things even is. The point isn't simply just banning things that are too good, so much as it is banning things that are too good relative to the rest of the metagame. I'm not just pulling this out of thin air, either; see here, from the baseline framework for tiering policy:
III.) Broken - elements that are too good relative to the rest of the metagame such that "more skillful play" is almost always rendered irrelevant
A.) Important to note that it is a relative statement; a 200/200/200/200/200/200 BST Pokemon with standard movepool would be broken in a metagame where the average is say, 100/100/100/100/100/100, not where the average is 200/200/200/200/200/200
B.) Examples are mostly Pokemon and include strong Ubers like Kyogre, Groudon, and Arceus. These aren't necessarily completely uncompetitive because they don't take the determining factor out of the player's hands; both can use these Pokemon and both probably have a fair chance to win. They are broken because they almost dictate / require usage, and a standard team facing a standard team with one of them would be at a drastic disadvantage. These examples limit team building skill.
C.) Examples also include ones whose only counters or checks are extraordinarily gimmicky Pokemon that would put the team at a large disadvantage elsewhere. These examples also limit team building skill.
D.) Uncompetitive and Broken defined like this tend to be mutually exclusive in practice, but aren't necessarily entirely so.
1.) BP was deemed uncompetitive because of how drastically it removed battling skill's effects and brought the battle down to match up, but it could also be deemed broken because of the unique ways in which you had to deal with it.
2.) While this isn't always the case, an uncompetitive thing probably isn't broken, but a broken thing is more likely to be uncompetitive simply due to the unique counter / check component. For example, Mega Kangaskhan was deemed broken because it was simply too good relative to the rest of the metagame and caused the tier to centralize around it, but it could also be labeled as uncompetitive because of the severe team match up restriction it caused by punishing players if they did not pack one of the few gimmicky and obscure counters or checks for it.​
With this notion in mind, we have to compare the aspects that make Necrozma good, relative to the aspects that make something like Urshifu, Tapu Fini, Celesteela, etc, good. Similarly, we also have to look back at prior bans and consider what made them so good that they needed to be banned, and then compare those aspects to where Necrozma is now. When you take a good long look at Necrozma, its strengths are pretty clear to see: Absurd offensive power both in stats and moveset, insane versatility in viable item options, moveset, and stat spreads that allows it to run near anything it wants and still do well, and a lack of meta-relevant threats that can consistently handle it or even blanket check it without otherwise bending over backwards in a way that severely limits teambuilding skill as described above. If we compare these factors to any of the other top mons in the meta right now, we can immediately see that nothing really encapsulates all three of these aspects quite as well, compared to Necrozma; While there are certainly similarly strong, if not even stronger, threats than Necrozma (Regidrago, Porygon-Z, Darmanitan-G, etc), they end up lacking either versatility or are more easily covered, and while there are certainly similarly versatile threats (Zeraora, Celesteela, Dragapult, etc), they just aren't as strong or are still easily blanket covered, and while there are threats that are similarly lacking in weaknesses (Primarina, Spectrier, Cresselia, etc), they still struggle with power or are lacking in versatility relative to Necrozma. To put it simply, Necrozma is far and above the best Pokemon in the metagame right now. When there's this much of a disparity between the best options and everything else, that is when we have to start looking into a potential removal. The ideal metagame we strive to build towards should be one where the top of the game isn't so far removed from the rest of its competition.
 
Hi! Quick note here: I don’t really play SS too much, but that doesn’t stop me from having an opinion on this matter! I love Necrozma so much when it comes to building with it. It’s genuinely really fun mon to think up new sets with due to how incredibly versatile it is! But to me, that’s exactly why it needs to go.

Versatility is amazing for a 1v1 mon because of the sheer amount of pressure that mon can exert on team preview. Looking back at BW (which is what I’m most comfortable with), I see Necrozma in SS like a better version of Jirachi in BW. The sheer amount of versatility in its sets makes it almost impossible to pick into a team with Necrozma easily, just as it does with Jirachi in BW. Even though you can mostly tell the sets on team preview due to its teammates, the one thing that makes me think of Necrozma as even better than Jirachi is that Necrozma has so many options to tech potential Necrozma answers. We’ve seen many a Rock Blast Necrozma taking out Volcarona this PL. Quite literally, the only two mons that act as strong Necrozma counters right now are Urshifu-S and Krookodile (unless I’ve blatantly been missing something). Now let’s just wait until we run into a Weakness Policy Hyper Beam Necrozma to counter even those. There’s not really a good hard counter to Necrozma in the tier right now. For BW Jirachi, there’s at least the option to beat all sets by running a fire type or something of the sort. That’s more or less why I say Necrozma in SS is better than Jirachi (don’t worry I’m even taking in the flinch hax into consideration when saying this, even though I didn’t mention it above) in BW.

And just from my perspective, with me (albeit not publicly, I don’t say things usually) supporting the banning of Jirachi in BW, by this logic, I’d definitely be supporting a ban of Necrozma.

Now that I’ve elaborated on my reasoning for banning Necrozma in general, I want to go into more about what I would like to see with the nature and timing of a ban. Being in the middle of PL right now, I don’t think letting a Pokemon like Necrozma stay in the meta is helpful to the nature of the SS games in PL. Quickbanning Necrozma and resuspecting it after PL would allow us to have a more healthy SS meta and see the development of the meta without Necrozma throughout PL, which would give us further clarity on whether the meta looks better with or without Necrozma in it.

That basically sums up my thoughts on this, and sorry if this came off as me just rambling. It’s actually my first discussion based forum post on smogon so I’ll improve, I promise!
 

recti

formerly Arvinraj K III C
:ss/necrozma:

Hihi, we are back once again, this time to discuss Necrozma. Since the Power Construct ban, Necrozma has been on the rise with much of this due to the recent increase in set diversity. Where previously Necrozma ran mostly Choice Specs, special Life Orb or stall Stored Power sets, we now are seeing an increase in sets such as Power Herb, Choice Band, and even physical Life Orb in this year's Premier League which were previously only theoretical sets. These new sets have been able to beat many of Necrozma's previously perceived counters such as Volcarona leaving very few consistent counters to Necrozma, and leading many people to feel that action against Necrozma is deserved.

As it stands, the council is looking to address Necrozma by the end of this week. Options for actions are looking like most likely a normal suspect test, although we are keeping our options open and if support for a quick ban is enough it would be considered. Take this opportunity to share your thoughts and opinions on Necrozma, as well as what course of action you think the council should take on this issue. Feel free to also reference tiering policy when backing up your arguments.

Please keep the conversation in this thread civil and respectful; arguing and flaming doesn't bring us any closer to resolving the problems that will be brought up in this thread, and won't be tolerated. One liners will be deleted.

Finally, since this is an urgent matter we would like to have this all done by Friday, 11:59
:ss/necrozma:

Hihi, we are back once again, this time to discuss Necrozma. Since the Power Construct ban, Necrozma has been on the rise with much of this due to the recent increase in set diversity. Where previously Necrozma ran mostly Choice Specs, special Life Orb or stall Stored Power sets, we now are seeing an increase in sets such as Power Herb, Choice Band, and even physical Life Orb in this year's Premier League which were previously only theoretical sets. These new sets have been able to beat many of Necrozma's previously perceived counters such as Volcarona leaving very few consistent counters to Necrozma, and leading many people to feel that action against Necrozma is deserved.

As it stands, the council is looking to address Necrozma by the end of this week. Options for actions are looking like most likely a normal suspect test, although we are keeping our options open and if support for a quick ban is enough it would be considered. Take this opportunity to share your thoughts and opinions on Necrozma, as well as what course of action you think the council should take on this issue. Feel free to also reference tiering policy when backing up your arguments.

Please keep the conversation in this thread civil and respectful; arguing and flaming doesn't bring us any closer to resolving the problems that will be brought up in this thread, and won't be tolerated. One liners will be deleted.

Finally, since this is an urgent matter we would like to have this all done by Friday, 11:59 PM GMT-5
as an necrozma usres i admit i dont wana ban it but its broken.i use specs,lorb dragondance physical (to beat magnezone),power herb meteor beam which beats volcarona, .i used it on ladder it rekt everything,even jestdelemon used it to beat low ladder (when i used heyvfh acc ). but in the end my opinion is BAN IT.
 
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