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ORAS Doubles Teambuilding Compendium

Yellow Paint said:
snarl Darkrai as a niche spread special attacker

Talonflame as a niche mixed attacker
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I'm not really comfortable with adding either of these. Snarl has literally 61 BP on each opponent after STAB and the spread reduction, making it a poor option for actually dealing damage. Talonflame meanwhile uses Overheat only as a work-around for Intimidate when Aegislash/Mawile/Ferrothorn REALLY need to be gone; Talonflame's role is really as a support Pokemon in a roundabout sort of way (it beats specific targets, snipes things on low health, and rarely if ever has more than two attacks) rather than an attacker.
 
hi i think that we could also use a list of priority users
thanks for the help christestchris
also add mega meta under sub attackers imo

Priority Attackers (not including Fake Out):
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Viable: :talonflame: :bisharp: :kangaskhan-mega: :mawile-mega: :breloom: :azumarill: :scizor-mega: :scizor: :mawile-mega: :deoxys-attack: :mamoswine: :metagross-mega:
Niche: :machamp: :hitmontop: :abomasnow-mega: :pinsir-mega: :lucario-mega: :conkeldurr:
Outclassed/Unviable::fletchinder: :zygarde: :glalie-mega: :banette-mega: :arcanine: :zangoose::(


heres the bbcode if youre interested
Code: 
Priority Attackers (not including Fake Out):
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Viable: [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/talonflame.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/bisharp.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/kangaskhan-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/mawile-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/breloom.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/azumarill.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/scizor-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/scizor.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/mawile-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/deoxys-attack.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/conkeldurr.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/mamoswine.png[/IMG]
Niche:  [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/machamp.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/metagross-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/hitmontop.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/abomasnow-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/pinsir-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/lucario-mega.png[/IMG]
Outclassed/Unviable:[IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/fletchinder.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/zygarde.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/glalie-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/banette-mega.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/arcanine.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xyicons/zangoose.png[/IMG]:(
 
Lukethehedgehog said:
Excuse my noobery, but what is Bulky Focus?
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Thwack! said:
Tanky mons that deal damage to one opposing mon instead of both. For instance, Rotom-Wash, generally speaking, are usually built to be bulky and deal a good amount of damage with Thunderbolt and Hydro Pump; both of which are single target attacks.
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Thwack isn't quite correct - Bulky Focus is Pokemon whose main role is to take hits but, when on the field, operate in a more offensive manner. These Pokemon are usually EV'd to defensive benchmarks before offensive ones, but when on the field usually end up attacking.
 
Regigigas is unviable? I don't know where you pulled that from. I know I may be bashed for this, but I've used Regigigas for a LONG time. Just hear me out.

Here are some sets that I used that made me a massive winning streak on the ladder (37-0 before last week). Keep in mind that I use these two first on every match - it's the only reason it works so well.

Reggie (Regigigas) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Dizzy Punch/Earthquake

Want a rough outline of how this works? Ok. Drain Punch is Regigigas's primary attack. It's used to keep his already brilliant HP up. Also, it kills a lot of Rock Types, Normal Types and other Regigigas with little effort. In addition, this may sound cruel, but I also use it so I can get HP from Pyroar and other Pokemon on my team - if you want to sweep, sacrifices must be made. Ice Punch allows Regigigas to kill Garchomp, Thundurus-Incarnate (Not without a Taunt though...) and Landorus-Therian to protect Pyroar, and the Freeze Chance comes in handy. Thunder Punch is used to kill Water Types, since Scald is EVERYWHERE, regardless of the meta (Unless it's UU No Scald, but that's singles). It also allows him to kill Talonflame and other flying types. Now, the last move is down to personal preference. Dizzy Punch is nice if you want to allow STAB and Parafuse hax, making Regigigas into a hax god. However, if you want to allow more Moxie boosts (Given that Pyroar has lent you Moxie), Earthquake is a nice move. It's also good for cleaning up the field if everything is on low HP - even more boosts! The Weakness Policy is used for many reasons. The EV spread I use here allows Regigigas to tank a Power-Up Punch from Mega Kang through sheer bulk. It allows not only an overwhelming boost, but also kill Kang in one hit guaranteed.

Noble (Pyroar) (F) @ Quick Claw/Focus Sash
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Entrainment
- Helping Hand
- Heat Wave
- Hyper Voice/Endeavor

This Pyroar set is made to just be plain annoying. This set is made to make Pyroar super fast, and almost guarantee an Entrainment landing on Regigigas. Entrainment is there for Pyroar to give Regigigas Moxie (Yes - it works!), and also cripple some Special Sweepers who rely on their abilities. It can also be used with Garchomp and Archeops, but let's not delve too deep into the usage of it. Helping Hand is there to lend support to Regigigas and other Pokemon on the team. It can also guarantee kills for Regigigas. Heat Wave hits really hard, and makes up for Regigigas not being able to kill Grass Types too easily. Once again, the last slot is personal preference. Hyper Voice is also used for a single strong STAB attack, and Endeavor is used for a small Semi-FEAR strategy, surprise, and also feeds the Moxie'd Pokemon kills.

Now, a Regigigas with Moxie is a force to be reckoned with. Does the fact Pyroar literally makes Regigigas awesome in 0.39 seconds flat change how everyone thinks about him? Mega Aerodactyl with Sky Drop and Dark Void Smeargle *shot* can also assist with this. Still not convinced? How about some Garchomp support to use with Pyroar as well? Basically, Pyroar x Regigigas should really change the 'unviable Regigigas' thing.

Sadly this statement makes Regigigas sound rather weak since Pyroar lends so much support, but even without Pyroar, Regigigas is still a force to be reckoned with. Also if this is ignored because it takes 'too long to set up', there's something wrong with your brain - 1 turn isn't too long. Seriously.

Hope this at least makes them both a niche.
 
So what do you do when someone leads something like Lando-T / Charizard and just double KOes your leads, or Terrakion, or uses will-o-wisp from gengar/rotom-w/talonflame/darkrai, or redirects your entrainment with amoonguss/togekiss, or just diamond storms in your face and gets defense boosts with mdiancie, or uses Trick Room, or intimidates you with lando-t/gyarados/scrafty so regigigas hits like a pussy, or stops your strategy with a simple fake out from Kang onto pyroar? because all of these things will happen, all the damn time. I ran the calcs and was surprised to see regigigas living things like Keldeo Secret Sword but your set literally entirely relies on that surprise factor; if someone knows not to activate your weakness policy then you just instantly lose, and there's a billion ways to stop your setup. Even once you've set up, it's not difficult to outspeed and revenge kill; every team has something on it that's faster than Pyroar. Normally when you set something up you can use Protect in order to maintain the boosts but Regigigas doesn't get protect.

160 base attack with 110/110/110 defenses is nothing special when kyurem-b has 170 base attack with 125/100/90 and gets mold breaker instead of slow start.

Also relying on quick claw is a total joke, that item activates twenty percent of the time.
 
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Stratos said:
So what do you do when someone leads something like Lando-T / Charizard and just double KOes your leads, or Terrakion, or uses intimidate to force you out, or uses will-o-wisp from gengar/rotom-w/talonflame/darkrai, or redirects your entrainment with amoonguss/togekiss, or just diamond storms in your face and gets defense boosts with mdiancie, or uses Trick Room, or intimidates you with lando-t/gyarados so regigigas hits like a pussy, or stops your strategy with a simple fake out from Kang onto pyroar? because all of these things will happen, all the damn time. I ran the calcs and was surprised to see regigigas living things like Keldeo Secret Sword but your set literally entirely relies on that surprise factor; if someone knows not to activate your weakness policy then you just instantly lose, and there's a billion ways to stop your setup. Even once you've set up, it's not difficult to outspeed and revenge kill; every team has something on it that's faster than Pyroar. Normally when you set something up you can use Protect in order to maintain the boosts but Regigigas doesn't get protect.

160 base attack with 110/110/110 defenses is nothing special when kyurem-b has 170 base attack with 125/100/90 and gets mold breaker instead of slow start.

Also relying on quick claw is a total joke, that item activates twenty percent of the time.
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Ok, Lando-T and Charizard CANNOT double kill. Lando for starters cannot kill Regigigas in my experience, and Charizard certainly cannot either. I never switch out against Terrakion either - you're underestimating the bulk of Regigigas. Terra requires full investment, and if it Sacred Swords me, that Weakness Policy Drain Punch response will certainly outweigh it. Intimidate is just a minor annoyance as well. Will-O-Wisp is the same, and Mega Audino can be used as a precaution for this. Redirection Pokes are often the one thing that stops me from setting up, which is where I do usually switch. Also, I have never actually faced Mega Diancie, and from what you're saying is that it will break it. Scald Pokes exist for a reason. I have faced many Fake Out Kangs, and they never kill Pyroar with one. It actually takes half of the HP, and I can set up next turn - Pyroar is a suicider.

Also, Weakness Policy has never actually been required on Regigigas. I used to run Leftovers and it was perfectly fine. The surprise factor isn't even a requirement either - you need to use it to understand. I don't instantly lose at all. Regigigas is merely a gimmick, and that's why Mega Aerodactyl is used - support and hard hitting.

I prefer to not use Kyurem-B. It just doesn't work for me. It also dies to Drain Punch, Superpower, and any strong Fighting Move. Although it would be nice to use if you want an Entrainment team. Regigigas is perfectly viable in that kind of team.

I never said it relied on Quick Claw. I said it was personal preference. You're acting like I never mentioned Focus Sash, which works slightly better than it. In fact, I use it myself, and it almost always seals the 1st turn Entrainment.

Also, you don't need to go completely crazy at me just because I have a way of making it work. I know this strat sounds really bad and stupid, but it works for me, so in my opinion, it ain't stupid.
 
(Sorry for the double post) Also if Mega Diancie makes it unviable, keep in mind that there's Earthquake that can be used instead of Dizzy Punch, like I said. But also, not every team and gimmick can win every time.
 
Chippy2001 said:
Ok, Lando-T and Charizard CANNOT double kill. Lando for starters cannot kill Regigigas in my experience, and Charizard certainly cannot either. I never switch out against Terrakion either - you're underestimating the bulk of Regigigas. Terra requires full investment, and if it Sacred Swords me, that Weakness Policy Drain Punch response will certainly outweigh it. Intimidate is just a minor annoyance as well. Will-O-Wisp is the same, and Mega Audino can be used as a precaution for this. Redirection Pokes are often the one thing that stops me from setting up, which is where I do usually switch. Also, I have never actually faced Mega Diancie, and from what you're saying is that it will break it. Scald Pokes exist for a reason. I have faced many Fake Out Kangs, and they never kill Pyroar with one. It actually takes half of the HP, and I can set up next turn - Pyroar is a suicider.

Also, Weakness Policy has never actually been required on Regigigas. I used to run Leftovers and it was perfectly fine. The surprise factor isn't even a requirement either - you need to use it to understand. I don't instantly lose at all. Regigigas is merely a gimmick, and that's why Mega Aerodactyl is used - support and hard hitting.

I prefer to not use Kyurem-B. It just doesn't work for me. It also dies to Drain Punch, Superpower, and any strong Fighting Move. Although it would be nice to use if you want an Entrainment team. Regigigas is perfectly viable in that kind of team.

I never said it relied on Quick Claw. I said it was personal preference. You're acting like I never mentioned Focus Sash, which works slightly better than it. In fact, I use it myself, and it almost always seals the 1st turn Entrainment.

Also, you don't need to go completely crazy at me just because I have a way of making it work. I know this strat sounds really bad and stupid, but it works for me, so in my opinion, it ain't stupid.
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252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 135-159 (31.8 - 37.5%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas in Sun: 340-402 (80.1 - 94.8%)
double ko, unless ur sash pyroar in which case lando just has to eq again the next turn or something

why are you talking about sacred sword rak, that doesnt fucking exist, they all use close combat, and you say "it would have to run max attack" like thats some special chore that not all terraks already do:
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 468-554 (110.3 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

i dont know how you can describe intimidate as a "minor annoyance" when at -1 regigigas can't even 4HKO standard Rotom-W 100% of the time after sitrus:
-1 252+ Atk Regigigas Dizzy Punch vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Rotom-W: 84-99 (27.6 - 32.5%)
and wisp is obviously only worse

Weakness policy is absolutely needed because otherwise regigigas deals 0 damage to anything (heres another calc: 252+ Atk Regigigas Thunder Punch vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 230-272 (69.9 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

i could keep going but i'm not going to because i'm 99% sure your post is just theorymon and lying about personal experience considering you talk about Sacred Sword Terrakion and recommend Dizzy Punch Regigigas instead of doing some basic using your brain and choosing Return, and you say STAB is replaceable when it's totally not (and EQ is pathetic: 252+ Atk Regigigas Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 192-228 (79.6 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Regigigas Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 148-176 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO) and also well this: http://puu.sh/hH7xs/a952e6af19.png which shows 5 battles on the smogon doubles ladder, not 37. The ladder is bad but I find it incredibly hard to believe that you went 37 battles without running into a single viable team, if you can give screenshot proof that you actually did then i'll concede this point but regigigas still sucks.


edit: spacebass just reminded me that i forgot taunt also fucks this over a million ways
 
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you forgot Protect in your sets, if youve played Doubles for a LONG time then you should probably know that Protect is totes amazeballs and is part of what makes Doubles so frustrating/fun.

But yeah Regigigas is cute, however thanks to power creep its speed and power isn't really that amazing anymore, especially with how Regigigas is basically a worse Mega Kangaskhan, and I feel its much better to just use something else that can hit hard from the get go rather than have to rely on some entrainment/skill swap/set up etc. because people will see it coming from 10 miles away (how long is 10 miles?) and be able to bop it usually.
 
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oh yeah I forgot but Pyroar doesn't have protect on its set either so im assuming that everything doesnt carry protect
 
Stratos said:
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 135-159 (31.8 - 37.5%)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regigigas in Sun: 340-402 (80.1 - 94.8%)
double ko, unless ur sash pyroar in which case lando just has to eq again the next turn or something

why are you talking about sacred sword rak, that doesnt fucking exist, they all use close combat, and you say "it would have to run max attack" like thats some special chore that not all terraks already do:
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regigigas: 468-554 (110.3 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

i dont know how you can describe intimidate as a "minor annoyance" when at -1 regigigas can't even 4HKO standard Rotom-W 100% of the time after sitrus:
-1 252+ Atk Regigigas Dizzy Punch vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Rotom-W: 84-99 (27.6 - 32.5%)
and wisp is obviously only worse

Weakness policy is absolutely needed because otherwise regigigas deals 0 damage to anything (heres another calc: 252+ Atk Regigigas Thunder Punch vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 230-272 (69.9 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

i could keep going but i'm not going to because i'm 99% sure your post is just theorymon and lying about personal experience considering you talk about Sacred Sword Terrakion and recommend Dizzy Punch Regigigas instead of doing some basic using your brain and choosing Return, and you say STAB is replaceable when it's totally not (and EQ is pathetic: 252+ Atk Regigigas Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 192-228 (79.6 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252+ Atk Regigigas Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 148-176 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO) and also well this: http://puu.sh/hH7xs/a952e6af19.png which shows 5 battles on the smogon doubles ladder, not 37. The ladder is bad but I find it incredibly hard to believe that you went 37 battles without running into a single viable team, if you can give screenshot proof that you actually did then i'll concede this point but regigigas still sucks.


edit: spacebass just reminded me that i forgot taunt also fucks this over a million ways
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Dude I'm mostly on the Battle Spot Doubles on ORAS. The win streak was on there. Before you ask, no, I couldn't use a camera since I have no webcam or camera with an SD card. I don't always use Pokemon Showdown because of the fact it is sometimes inaccurate. And yes, Taunt fucks this over, and the win streak was mostly flukes and insane luck. Some did come down to skill though. As you said, the ladder [in general] is bad. Also, some of the wins did have Regigigas KO'd, only to get massacred by the rest. The win streak wasn't just Regigigas and Pyroar on their own, solo-ing teams for days. Intimidate only takes down the attack a small bit. Helping Hand outweighs it, and if Regigigas is using EQ or Drain Punch, he can kill Pyroar to get a Moxie Boost, but if it's the latter, more health as well. Like I said, Regigigas kills his own allies. On top of that, I know Return is good, but this Regigigas is an attacking variant of the normal stallmon (Hence Dizzy Punch - parafuse). If you think it's better, go nuts and use Return. I understand how Regigigas is near-outclassed by Kang, but if you don't wanna take up a mega slot, Regigigas can be a nice choice depending on how it's used.

By the way, be a little nicer. No wonder this thread and the whole forum goes dead a lot. I understand you may think I'm wrong, but offending people isn't the way to go. I see the camouflaged offenses everywhere.
 
Chippy2001 said:
Dude I'm mostly on the Battle Spot Doubles on ORAS. The win streak was on there. Before you ask, no, I couldn't use a camera since I have no webcam or camera with an SD card. I don't always use Pokemon Showdown because of the fact it is sometimes inaccurate. And yes, Taunt fucks this over, and the win streak was mostly flukes and insane luck. Some did come down to skill though. As you said, the ladder [in general] is bad. Also, some of the wins did have Regigigas KO'd, only to get massacred by the rest. The win streak wasn't just Regigigas and Pyroar on their own, solo-ing teams for days. Intimidate only takes down the attack a small bit. Helping Hand outweighs it, and if Regigigas is using EQ or Drain Punch, he can kill Pyroar to get a Moxie Boost, but if it's the latter, more health as well. Like I said, Regigigas kills his own allies. On top of that, I know Return is good, but this Regigigas is an attacking variant of the normal stallmon (Hence Dizzy Punch - parafuse). If you think it's better, go nuts and use Return. I understand how Regigigas is near-outclassed by Kang, but if you don't wanna take up a mega slot, Regigigas can be a nice choice depending on how it's used.

By the way, be a little nicer. No wonder this thread and the whole forum goes dead a lot. I understand you may think I'm wrong, but offending people isn't the way to go. I see the camouflaged offenses everywhere.
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All battle spot records can be found on the pokemon global link.
 
I told people I wouldn't be online today but this is forcing my hand.
Chippy2001 said:
Dude I'm mostly on the Battle Spot Doubles on ORAS. The win streak was on there. Before you ask, no, I couldn't use a camera since I have no webcam or camera with an SD card.
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This isn't the Battle Spot forum, and by "before the reset" I assume you mean season 7, meaning that a) there's no way you can prove your win streak (unless NOVED is right and I suck at using the PGL website) and b) you haven't been doing so well in season 8.

EDIT: it seems I cannot read
I don't always use Pokemon Showdown because of the fact it is sometimes inaccurate.
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I can assure you that PS is accurate in all aspects except a select few ability-move interactions that do not affect your strategy (aside from minor glitches that are fixed promptly).
And yes, Taunt fucks this over, and the win streak was mostly flukes and insane luck. Some did come down to skill though.
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"This strategy got lucky" doesn't mean "this strategy is good."
As you said, the ladder [in general] is bad.
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Battle Spot on cart is probably hundreds of times more competitive than Battle Spot on PS, so unless you're referring to PS I don't know what you're talking about.
Also, some of the wins did have Regigigas KO'd, only to get massacred by the rest. The win streak wasn't just Regigigas and Pyroar on their own, solo-ing teams for days.
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This would be defined as "building an otherwise good team" and is in no way related to Regigigas (other than you picking the Pokemon that work best against what the opponent brings).
Intimidate only takes down the attack a small bit.
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If your opponent leads with Mega Kangaskhan and an Intimidate partner (Landorus-T often carries Superpower) this happens:
-1 252+ Atk Slow Start Regigigas Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 38-46 (20.9 - 25.4%)
-1 252+ Atk Slow Start Regigigas Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 84-100 (50.9 - 60.6%)
If Landorus-T activates your Weakness Policy with Superpower it can be OHKOed by Ice Punch, but you still barely break 50% on Mega Kangaskhan, and Return will finish off Regigigas and now you have a Pyroar that's nothing but a Helping Hand bot (that is going to be outsped by Jolly Kang because you're running Modest).
Helping Hand outweighs it, and if Regigigas is using EQ or Drain Punch, he can kill Pyroar to get a Moxie Boost, but if it's the latter, more health as well. Like I said, Regigigas kills his own allies.
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Cool, Pyroar's dead and Regigigas got a boost! Regigigas is now in KO range, you're slow as balls, and your opponent's Pokemon are probably still healthy because all of your attacks are 75 BP.
On top of that, I know Return is good, but this Regigigas is an attacking variant of the normal stallmon (Hence Dizzy Punch - parafuse). If you think it's better, go nuts and use Return.
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There is no use for Thunder Punch. Neutral Return has more BP than super effective Thunder Punch (153 vs 150) and anything hit harder by the latter is also hit super effective by either Ice Punch or Drain Punch (or is a Ghost and burns you).
I understand how Regigigas is near-outclassed by Kang, but if you don't wanna take up a mega slot, Regigigas can be a nice choice depending on how it's used.
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Regigigas has a niche as the bulkiest user of Wide Guard in the entire game - that's right, eat your heart out Aegislash - while also packing a couple other nice support moves like Thunder Wave. To use Regigigas (and, while we're at it, Slaking) offensively requires dedicating another Pokemon to supporting it, meaning that said other Pokemon is essentially wasted on something that can provide much more than "Helping Hand bot" even if you do get the combo off. If one part of the combo fails, you essentially brought two deadweight Pokemon into battle. This is the problem with almost all ability-based gimmicks: if the strategy is to work, it has to work perfectly, or the entire battle can be lost in a single turn. Getting your Entrainment redirected turn 1 by a Clefable or Amoonguss or stopped by Fake Out or Taunt means your opponent can take a chunk out of Regigigas's HP with something else and put it in or near KO range shortly.

By the way, be a little nicer. No wonder this thread and the whole forum goes dead a lot. I understand you may think I'm wrong, but offending people isn't the way to go. I see the camouflaged offenses everywhere.
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I already said this. It's a well known fact that Stratos is a bully, but he's right this time.

If you still think this strategy is good, feel free to challenge me on Pokemon Showdown (or on cart if you're so dedicated) to a battle. While I can't guarantee I'll win (I won't claim I'm the best battler around), I know a thing or two about stopping gimmicks ;)
 
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Arcticblast said:
I told people I wouldn't be online today but this is forcing my hand.
This isn't the Battle Spot forum, and by "before the reset" I assume you mean season 7, meaning that a) there's no way you can prove your win streak (unless NOVED is right and I suck at using the PGL website) and b) you haven't been doing so well in season 8.

EDIT: it seems I cannot read
I can assure you that PS is accurate in all aspects except a select few ability-move interactions that do not affect your strategy (aside from minor glitches that are fixed promptly).
"This strategy got lucky" doesn't mean "this strategy is good."
Battle Spot on cart is probably hundreds of times more competitive than Battle Spot on PS, so unless you're referring to PS I don't know what you're talking about.
This would be defined as "building an otherwise good team" and is in no way related to Regigigas (other than you picking the Pokemon that work best against what the opponent brings).
If your opponent leads with Mega Kangaskhan and an Intimidate partner (Landorus-T often carries Superpower) this happens:
-1 252+ Atk Slow Start Regigigas Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 38-46 (20.9 - 25.4%)
-1 252+ Atk Slow Start Regigigas Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 84-100 (50.9 - 60.6%)
If Landorus-T activates your Weakness Policy with Superpower it can be OHKOed by Ice Punch, but you still barely break 50% on Mega Kangaskhan, and Return will finish off Regigigas and now you have a Pyroar that's nothing but a Helping Hand bot (that is going to be outsped by Jolly Kang because you're running Modest).
Cool, Pyroar's dead and Regigigas got a boost! Regigigas is now in KO range, you're slow as balls, and your opponent's Pokemon are probably still healthy because all of your attacks are 75 BP.
There is no use for Thunder Punch. Neutral Return has more BP than super effective Thunder Punch (153 vs 150) and anything hit harder by the latter is also hit super effective by either Ice Punch or Drain Punch (or is a Ghost and burns you).
Regigigas has a niche as the bulkiest user of Wide Guard in the entire game - that's right, eat your heart out Aegislash - while also packing a couple other nice support moves like Thunder Wave. To use Regigigas (and, while we're at it, Slaking) offensively requires dedicating another Pokemon to supporting it, meaning that said other Pokemon is essentially wasted on something that can provide much more than "Helping Hand bot" even if you do get the combo off. If one part of the combo fails, you essentially brought two deadweight Pokemon into battle. This is the problem with almost all ability-based gimmicks: if the strategy is to work, it has to work perfectly, or the entire battle can be lost in a single turn. Getting your Entrainment redirected turn 1 by a Clefable or Amoonguss or stopped by Fake Out or Taunt means your opponent can take a chunk out of Regigigas's HP with something else and put it in or near KO range shortly.

I already said this. It's a well known fact that Stratos is a bully, but he's right this time.

If you still think this strategy is good, feel free to challenge me on Pokemon Showdown (or on cart if you're so dedicated) to a battle. While I can't guarantee I'll win (I won't claim I'm the best battler around), I know a thing or two about stopping gimmicks ;)
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Click to collapse...

In my experience, Battle Spot is nothing compared to PS. It really isn't that competitive. And I know that about that the strategy got lucky doesn't mean it's good - I was just saying it. I wasn't trying to say it's good. By the way, your camouflaged offenses are see-able too. Not trying to pick a fight with people who could get me banned, but I'm just pointing it out. I can see the hate and frustration too.

If you actually saw the Pyroar set, it is pretty fast. Garchomp can't stop it with a sash, and Pyroar will most likely move second if it doesn't move first. Kang's Fake-Out? Stalled for a turn? Yes. Killed? No. Hit again? Fuck. Also, Pyroar is not actually dead weight if Regigigas dies. For some reason, Pyroar's Heat Wave hits a lot harder in my game than in PS. You may wanna get Heat Wave checked out on Pyroar. Also, spamming Helping Hand is still an option to help out. Endeavor is still fun to use to wear down stuff as well. So I probably brought ONE. Not TWO.

With the Lando x Kang thing, just to make a point...WHY THE FUCK WOULD I KEEP REGIGIGAS OUT IN FRONT OF A FUCKING KANG AND LANDO COMBO WITH -1? IT'S FUCKING SUICIDE. Even I know that. Like I said earlier, I have used Regiroar for a while, and I have experience with them. And from the said experience, Earthquaking for Moxie is not the way out of it. It won't kill the opponents, and a second SuperPower can kill Regigigas (around 75% chance if I recall correctly...).

Just to clarify before I close this 'discussion' (More like flame war), I am merely stating an opinion. And that opinion is...Regiroar is good in my opinion and experience, not yours. From that opinion and experience, I think it scratches viability. Once I find my 3DS (I have no idea where it went - I lost it 3 days ago after a mate came round...), I'll share battle videos upon request. Obviously, Regigigas is NOT perfect. Like every other Pokemon that isn't Mega Rayquaza, it has flaws *shot for excluding megaray*. In this case, it relies on a good start to win. Like some other users say, it doesn't come down to battling to prove it. It requires hands-on experience. If you want to try those setups, go nuts. Or maybe use them as a base for something else. Do whatever the hell you want with em.
 
i learned long ago not to try and reason with people who are convinced that their bad strat works, but i still don't want anyone else to be misled by it. So I just want to make it clear for everyone: Regigigas is terrible, and this user is likely lying about his personal experience. Reasons to believe they are lying include the fact that they don't know the most basic metagame things ("Terra requires full investment, and if it Sacred Swords me"), that they don't seem to know about doubles mechanics or have played doubles ("For some reason, Pyroar's Heat Wave hits a lot harder in my game than in PS"—likely a reference to spread reduction), that he disagrees with literally everyone who's played both BSpot and PS ever ("14:44 Stratos: tmon just ftr 14:44 Stratos: bspot ladder tends to be a hell of a lot better than ps ladder right 14:44 Theorymon: yes 14:44 Theorymon: like hugely better") and that he's managed to snake out of providing evidence for his incredible claim of going 37-0 which is something that even the people who win worlds would instantly take a screenshot of. My only conclusions are that he played on unrated Battle Spot, which isn't supposed to be a competitive ladder and thus means nothing, or he's just full of hot air. Either way, you should take his word for nothing and trust the rest of us that Regigigas doesn't work.

Unless of course you want to make your battle spot profile public and link it to us to verify your claims, which im sure youd be willing to do if you were telling the truth. Unless you do this, this conversation is over and any future posts on the topic will be deleted.
 
well this was a good banter.

unrelated to said banter, we might want to move ttar down from viable mixed attackers to niche as a nitpick to this thread. People have started to realise that it's not a very good pokemon.

P.S. you all give way too many fucks about regigigas :)
 
An idea, but since there is a Choice Scarf user category, why not make categories for mons that run Specs or Band as well?
 
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