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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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SpD Gyarados says hi. Unless Greninja starts carrying HP Elec, there is absolutely nothing Greninja can do to RestTalk Gyara, who can paralyze with Twave or 2HKO with Waterfall in return.
I think u guys are misunderstanding me, i didn't said Mmence WILL BE OU, i didn't said either that there's no possibility that he is broken, nor do i said that in any case Mmence will be no toxic for the meta and it's okay to be in Ou cause of some counters.
All of my arguments so far were merely to prove that some people are rushing things a little bit, i've heard "mence can't be countered" "mence can't be walled" "mence is worse than Mlucario" and i'm just saying that THERE IS some options and weakness to deal with him.
MENCE CAN BE BROKEN, but IMO we should wait the complete coverage and test from ORAS to decide that.
(u guys should read all my posts before saying such things ;) ).
EDIT: Eurogamer has recently made an interview with the director of ORAS and he said "there's still much more megas to come".
I'll post the link but the interview is in portuguese, sorry buds.
http://www.eurogamer.pt/articles/20...e-soar-mega-evolucoes-longevidade-e-a-new-3ds
First of all, many of your "counters" are super niche like Cofagrigus (which can get 2HKO'd by uninvested Hyper Voice).
0 SpA Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 142-168 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Secondly, you're using shit like Fake Out to try to beat it, which ANY SMART PERSON WILL JUST SWITCH OUT OF AFTER GETTING HIT.
Thirdly, some of those situations like the M-Lopunny ones are crapshoots since they can't switch in and may be facing a +1 Mence so they can't win anyway.
Finally, just because you can't cover everything in one set doesn't make it balanced. Gen IV Mence couldn't cover everything and was banned anyway because there wasn't really a consistent way to deal with it. It could kill 1-2 things before you even knew its set because it was super easy to support so its didn't need to cover everything anyway. I've never played DPPt though so someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
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So far we got :
- Crunch Gyarados
- Gunk Shot and Low Kick Greninja
- Diggersby with Knock Off, Superpower, all elemental punches and Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch and Thunder Punch Chesnaught
- Spikey Shield Cacturne and Maractus
- Mystical Fire Mismagius
- Outrage and Superpower Tyrantrum
- Hyper Voice, Earth Power and Stealth Rock Aurorus
- Stealth Rock Barbaracle
- Synthesis, Heal Bell and Giga Drain Florges
- Synthesis Gourgeist
- Pangoro with Drain Punch, Superpower, Gunk Shot and all elemental punches
- Malamar with Knock Off
- Vivillon with Giga Drain
- Slurpuff with Drain Punch and Heal Bell
- Meowstic with Heal Bell
- Hawlucha with all elemental punches, Superpower and Drain Punch
- Goodra with all elemental punches and Superpower
- Trevenant with Pain Split (holy shit)
- Diancie with Heal Bell and Earth Power
- Volcanion with Superpower and Earth Power
Let's stop trying to prove that mega mence isn't OP. It is. Stall should be able to put a stop to it, but what can any type of offense do other than revenge it with priority after something dies? If people have to start using fake out Weaville just to revenge mega mence, then it is way too broken for OU.
Well bro, that is the problem with determining what is good or not before the actual game. niche? u have to reconsider what a "META" is. this can be niche in this meta, but we cannot predict what will rise after ORAS (mandibuzz was hyper niche before the beggining of XY).
secondly, fake out shit? free damage and sturdy counter, adamant weavile can ice shard without fake out anyway. u can switch out mence but again, it will cost another 25% Sr damage and maybe momentum loss. (they used similar arguments during Mlucario suspect to prove that Zard Y were OP, i didn't worked bro).
Thirdly, the problem IS, Mence cannot GRANTS that vantage of switch in/out like Mlucario and u should stop considering it, mence switch in can be countered by a simples toxic/WoW.
What is this Poke exactly that mence will Switch in and Setup the hell out? and what is this build that can Captitalize this situation and make him unwallable?
i'll say again, u can post your build and we can discuss what type of Mons Mence can take out with that.
Finally, gen 4 metagame didn't have nearly options to deal with mence, grant more power to a mon isn't garantee of OP, Power comes with a cost, mence specially. again, wait till we can test it for real bro D:
Mega Steelix seems really cool, but its SpD is still kind of average after mega evolving. I was kind of disappointed by that, and I feel that it would need a lot of support not only to use its new ability, but to prevent it from dying to any kind of special attacker because of all its weaknesses. That being said, it looks like a fantastic TTar check, because it can turn its own sand against it, and has ridiculous physical defense. I'm hoping Steelix will get much heavier, and by a big enough factor that STAB Heavy Slam under sand can be a reliable threatening move to things like Clefable and Mamoswine.
Mega Pidgeot is something I look forward to using, as 121 is a really nice speed tier to be at, plus No Guard Hurricane sounds like a good enough deal for me to make a team around it. By a Mega's standards, though, 135 base SpA isn't really that much. I'm wondering about what other moves you would put on Pidgeot besides the obvious Hurricane and Heat Wave. Ominous Wind sounds super silly but probably won't be used at all, and besides Uproar, which I guess is decent STAB, it doesn't really learn too many special moves.
So far all I see out of Mega Sceptile is the perfect Rotom-W check. Aside from that I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, maybe it's been discussed earlier in the thread.
Mega Pidgeot is something I look forward to using, as 121 is a really nice speed tier to be at, plus No Guard Hurricane sounds like a good enough deal for me to make a team around it. By a Mega's standards, though, 135 base SpA isn't really that much. I'm wondering about what other moves you would put on Pidgeot besides the obvious Hurricane and Heat Wave. Ominous Wind sounds super silly but probably won't be used at all, and besides Uproar, which I guess is decent STAB, it doesn't really learn too many special moves.
So far all I see out of Mega Sceptile is the perfect Rotom-W check. Aside from that I'm not sure what it's supposed to do, maybe it's been discussed earlier in the thread.
^yeah, 136 Atk / 192 SAtk / 180 Spe w/ Naive nature. Moveset consisting of Earthquake/Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse/Hidden Power Fire. You OHKO SDef Heatran after rocks, outspeed Mega Manectric after the Evo and OHKO w/ Leaf Storm after rocks, OHKO Zard X and Garchomp with Dragon Pulse, outspeed and OHKO Scarf Magnezone with Earthquake, and importantly you outspeed Latios before Mega Evo'ing and OHKO with Dragon Pulse after SR. 2HKO Skarmory and Ferrothorn w/ HP Fire. OHKO Specially Defensive Mega Slowbro w/ Leaf Storm after SR.
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That sucks. This is a mega speculation thread after all and most of these discussions involving what may or may not be banned have been healthy and informative when it comes to how we're going to tackle these beats at release. I see nothing wrong with these debates.
Oh well.
What's the general opinion on mega swampert being on a team without rain support? Or perhaps supporting itself with rain dance? It's more than bulky enough to be able to set up a rain dance and potentially sweep late game.
Oh well.
What's the general opinion on mega swampert being on a team without rain support? Or perhaps supporting itself with rain dance? It's more than bulky enough to be able to set up a rain dance and potentially sweep late game.
Ignoring the actual discussion about the 3 potential Ubers and the others megas ,Mega Sharpedo could be a solid pick for OU teams.
At the first glance the offensive stat incerase might be a dissapointing,considering that Life Orb provides a more powerful boost to every move that is not affected by Strong Jaw.
On top of this, only 3 usable moves in Sharpedos arsenal are boosted throught the new ability: Crunch,Poison Fang and Ice Fang.So moves like Waterfall and coverage are weaker compared to the Life orb Set.
It also losses Speed Boost once it has evolved and the speed incerase is to low for a sweep,so it has most likely only one try for a sweep.
You realise here that Strong Jaw is a 50% boost,which turns Crunch in a 100% accurate 120BP (180 factoring in Stab bonus) Dark move with no drawbacks.This is the main draw of the mega form,a so powerfu an reliable attck is the holy grail of any offensive Mon.
On the defensive side Sharpedo gains enough bulk to take every priority hit exept Talonflames CB Brave Bird and Mach Punch.It also can take also weaker resisted attacks without suffering huge amouts of damage.
So basically Mega Sharpedo deals with two major flaws which held the regular form down.
1.Lack of an powerful stab wich erodes it attacking power despite it 120+ base attack
2.Gerneral fragility thanks to Life Orb Recoil and nonexistant bulk.
That being said it still has some problems,like no setup move,reliance on hazard support and lack of speed after losing it base form so it wont be meta defining like some other introduced Megas.
Reserved for random calcs.
At the first glance the offensive stat incerase might be a dissapointing,considering that Life Orb provides a more powerful boost to every move that is not affected by Strong Jaw.
On top of this, only 3 usable moves in Sharpedos arsenal are boosted throught the new ability: Crunch,Poison Fang and Ice Fang.So moves like Waterfall and coverage are weaker compared to the Life orb Set.
It also losses Speed Boost once it has evolved and the speed incerase is to low for a sweep,so it has most likely only one try for a sweep.
You realise here that Strong Jaw is a 50% boost,which turns Crunch in a 100% accurate 120BP (180 factoring in Stab bonus) Dark move with no drawbacks.This is the main draw of the mega form,a so powerfu an reliable attck is the holy grail of any offensive Mon.
On the defensive side Sharpedo gains enough bulk to take every priority hit exept Talonflames CB Brave Bird and Mach Punch.It also can take also weaker resisted attacks without suffering huge amouts of damage.
So basically Mega Sharpedo deals with two major flaws which held the regular form down.
1.Lack of an powerful stab wich erodes it attacking power despite it 120+ base attack
2.Gerneral fragility thanks to Life Orb Recoil and nonexistant bulk.
That being said it still has some problems,like no setup move,reliance on hazard support and lack of speed after losing it base form so it wont be meta defining like some other introduced Megas.
Reserved for random calcs.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 303-357 (101.3 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 129-153 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
-1 252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 156-186 (40.8 - 48.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 144-169 (39.5 - 46.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 135-160 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252+Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 136-161 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Mega Scizor: 156-184 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Note that you can play around with you remaining moveslots to beat certain checks.
Like Hydro Pump,Ice Fang,and Poison Jab
Ah and finally if somebody cares:
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 216-254 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Sharpedo: 128-151 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
GG Slowbro.The counter is here.(Only 49% burn chance, legit check)
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 129-153 (38.6 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
-1 252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 156-186 (40.8 - 48.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 144-169 (39.5 - 46.4%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 135-160 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252+Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 136-161 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Mega Scizor: 156-184 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Note that you can play around with you remaining moveslots to beat certain checks.
Like Hydro Pump
Ah and finally if somebody cares:
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 216-254 (54.8 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Sharpedo: 128-151 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO
GG Slowbro.The counter is here.(Only 49% burn chance, legit check)
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lol Mega Pinsir has like one set and is so predictable. the fact that mega mence can go mixed is reason enough to set it apart from mega pinsir
he'd be too frail to set up a DD against most of the meta anyway. mega scept will likely play with a hit-and-run style that wrecks shit with its speed, coverage and stronk base offenses (similarly to mega manectric)
yeah Altaria, Sceptile, and Metagross all take can take latios' hits or ohko him but latios will still be used as a offensive deffoger because its still the best at this and doesnt take up the Mega Slot
I'ma establish the Mega Beedrill Set
Offensive Pivot
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Jolly/Adamant (Jolly preferred)
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Protect/Knock off (I'm actually convinced protect will be preferred, unless your team has a lot of twavers or something)
Sweeper
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Jolly
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Knock Off/X-Scissors (Bug is resisted by p much everything)
Remove priority & sweep :).
Jeer at me if I messed up on this.
Offensive Pivot
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Jolly/Adamant (Jolly preferred)
- U-turn
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Protect/Knock off (I'm actually convinced protect will be preferred, unless your team has a lot of twavers or something)
Sweeper
252Atk/4Def/252Spe
Jolly
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Knock Off/X-Scissors (Bug is resisted by p much everything)
Remove priority & sweep :).
Jeer at me if I messed up on this.
Protect seems like a good idea but beedrill already has enough problems even with a 4th attacking move, taking that away might not be a good idea. It probably needs knock off so it can remove the items of its regular switch ins and then u-turn out, further adding to its soon to be niche of being an annoying little prick.
Protect might be used now and again though because what does knock off really hit that u-turn doesn't? Gengar? Obviously the item removal is the reason to use knock off, but I can definitely see some people opting to use protect over knock off because of how much danger beedrill will find itself in as it tries to mega evolve.
Protect might be used now and again though because what does knock off really hit that u-turn doesn't? Gengar? Obviously the item removal is the reason to use knock off, but I can definitely see some people opting to use protect over knock off because of how much danger beedrill will find itself in as it tries to mega evolve.
I cameup with the Mega sceptile set when it stats where confirmed.
252 spe/ 252 SpA/ 4 Atk
Jolly
Protect
Pursuit
giga drain
dragon pulse
This set is more of one to lead with. You mega then go for protect and then on the next turn you switch out. You then use this to come in on a electric attack get the plus 1. It seems strange but I've tested it on showdown and it works really well. But as soon as that electric attacker goes down it loses it effectiveness but it has a nice little niche.
252 spe/ 252 SpA/ 4 Atk
Jolly
Protect
Pursuit
giga drain
dragon pulse
This set is more of one to lead with. You mega then go for protect and then on the next turn you switch out. You then use this to come in on a electric attack get the plus 1. It seems strange but I've tested it on showdown and it works really well. But as soon as that electric attacker goes down it loses it effectiveness but it has a nice little niche.
LO Breloom can do it at +0 given 4-5 hits on Bullet Seed.
There's still hope! (that demo isn't 100% final and Pidgeot can get more moves)
(Not Mega Flygon trololol)
EDIT: wait, interview was in the beginning of October, before even Mega Rayquaza. :/ hope?
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