Resource ORAS NU Viability Rankings (Under Construction)

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Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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NU VIABILITY RANKING

Welcome to the official NU Viability Ranking thread. If you've visited the Viability Ranking thread for any other tier, you should be familiar with the concept of this thread - we will organize the Pokemon in our tier into ranks, varying on how good they are. You are encouraged to post your thoughts on where Pokemon should be ranked. Please note that each section is going to be in alphabetical order.

The way that rises / drops are decided is through input from the NU Council, your nominations, and my personal experience with these Pokemon.

In order to cut down on shitposting, please do not bandwagon posts. Unless you have new or different experiences to share, you are defending a nomination, or if the nomination has not been discussed for ~3 days, try to avoid repeating the same information someone else said before you.

If you click on an sprite it will take you to the dex page :)


Last Update: August 10th
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Preliminary NU Rankings

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.



S
Archeops
Magmortar
Rhydon
Sawk
Tauros




A Rank:

Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.


A+
Audino (Mega)
Garbodor
Gurdurr
Jynx
Klinklang
Lanturn
Lilligant
Mesprit
Musharna
Pyroar
Samurott
Scyther
Shiftry
Xatu



A
Carracosta
Combusken
Hariyama
Kabutops
Kangaskhan
Liepard
Ludicolo
Mawile
Rotom
Torterra


A-
Aurorus
Barbaracle
Floatzel
Haunter
Malamar
Piloswine
Quagsire
Skuntank
Swellow
Vileplume
Weezing​


B Rank:

Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.


B+
Cacturne
Claydol
Exeggutor
Ferroseed
Gourgeist-S
Gourgeist-XL
Hitmonchan
Pawniard
Pelipper
Pinsir
Prinplup
Roselia
Rotom-Fan
Vivillon
Zangoose


B
Articuno
Bouffalant
Electivire
Golurk
Linoone
Misdreavus
Mismagius
Poliwrath
Primeape
Regirock
Sandslash
Tangela


B-
Arbok
Beheeyem
Chatot
Crustle
Flareon
Gorebyss
Granbull
Jumpluff
Kadabra
Kecleon
Ninetales
Ursaring
Vanilluxe​


C Rank:

Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.


C+
Audino
Cradily
Cryogonal
Huntail
Leafeon
Miltank
Mr. Mime
Rampardos
Rapidash
Rotom-Frost
Stoutland
Victreebel
Zebstrika
Zweilous


C
Dodrio
Drifblim
Gogoat
Grumpig
Hippopotas
Leavanny
Lickilicky
Mantine
Marowak
Ninjask
Raichu
Regice
Sawsbuck
Servine
Simipour
Simisage
Stunfisk
Swanna


C-
Avalugg
Basculin
Ditto
Dusknoir
Fraxure
Frogadier
Golem
Kricketune
Lapras
Quilladin
Shedinja
Torkoal
Volbeat
Vullaby​


D Rank:

Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time. These Pokemon are, for the most part, daft to use.


D
Carbink
Delibird
Dusclops
Frillish
Lampent
Metang
Muk
Probopass
Relicanth​


E Rank:

E is for "Everything Else". You should probably not be using Pokemon in this rank.

...everything else. :mad: :pirate: :mad:
 
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Alright I've played a lot with sticky web and I feel like kricketune and leavanny should switch places (Kricketune to c-, leavanny to c)

In terms of setting up webs one of the biggest threats to webs-setters is faster taunters. Kricketune is rendered completely helpless against them while leavanny has a fighting chance to prevent it thanks to magic coat. Also, while not considered standard leavanny gets electroweb which actually allows it to beat suicide lead archeops (or reliably set up webs against it, anyway) Leavanny's better speed tier also gives it more opportunities to set up webs later on in the match.

I guess kricketune's major selling points would be its access to taunt and endeavor, but taunt is overrated imo since leavanny can blow up several stealth rockers such as rhydon (something cricket matches up poorly against) with leaf storm, while other hazard setters such as garbodor fear having their hazards bounced back and thus will rarely try to set up hazards on leavanny. endeavor is cool but it's not worth potentially not setting up webs. Both get more or less bodied by xatu (hint run contrary and defiant abusers) but if I can't afford to have my webs magic bounced, then again leavanny's better speed gives it more opportunities to set up webs later on.
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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Well we might still have to revise that "Klinklang in S" bit but we'll get to that later.

Shit I got ninja'd by Luck O' the Irish , but Ima continue typing anyway:

I didn't even actually see that Leavanny has been nommed to drop lower than Kricketune until someone in chat brought it up in chat. I don't feel that Leavanny has gotten any less viable than Tune (specifically) in this meta; quite the opposite, I feel Leavanny is actually superior to Tune right now.

Leavanny @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Electroweb
- Leaf Storm
- Bug Buzz / Magic Coat

- I've been hyping up leads with slowing moves lately (Rock Tomb Pinsir, Rock Tomb Aurorus), and Leavanny is no exception; Electroweb is very useful for giving Leavanny a lot of flexibility in its leading role, as it greatly eases prediction against Taunt leads, particularly Archeops: if Archeops Taunts, you Leaf Storm it right afterward and KO it, whereas if it sets up Stealth Rock or Head Smashes you get your Sticky Web off and break its Sash. Either way, Leavanny will get the advantage against Archeops, something which few leads can boast and Kricketune can only dream of. Against other faster leads it just serves to allow Leavanny to get off chip damage before setting its Web. Honestly I don't even feel that Magic Coat is even that useful anymore against faster Taunt users (of which there are few in the first place) when Electroweb offers more alternatives and still has some useful effects even upon a misprediction; Magic Coat at that point is only really good against hazard leads, which you either shouldn't stay in against or just KO on the spot, which leads me to...

- Leaf Storm is also a very nice asset Leavanny has that Kricketune doesn't: a strong nuking attack. Tune relies on 1 HP Endeavor for its damage, but Leavanny's Leaf Storm threatens foes right off the bat. This is immensely relevant against foes such as Rhydon, Kabutops, Sandslash, Prinplup, and Claydol, which can cause Kricketune loads of issues. Leaf Storm as an attack in general is also useful for checking the likes of Lanturn, Samurott, Gorebyss, Carracosta, and Quagsire.

- Leavanny's Speed may not be that impressive, but it can outrun a good few mons such as Rotom, Kangaskhan, Lilligant, Vivillon, Sawk, Pinsir, Magmortar, Mesprit, Kabutops, and offensive Garbodor. This means that Leavanny can be saved for later Webbing opportunities, even if its Sash is broken, which puts it under much less pressure to (obviously) lead, unlike Kricketune which more heavily depends on its Sash to get work done. Leavanny can even be used to check these Pokemon in a pinch.

- Bug Buzz is probably a minor selling point as Kricketune has X-Scissor :/, but Leavanny for the most part makes better use of its Bug STAB, since it has the Speed to actually check Lilligant or Grass-types in general (as opposed to being setup fodder without Buzz, or like poor Tune :/) and more importantly Malamar, which would otherwise be a bothersome threat for Sticky Web teams. Bug Buzz can even do some considerable damage to Xatu (especially after Swarm if Xatu decides to get too aggressive), enough to pressure it to heal and give you a free switch.

If anything I'd say the meta is favoring Leavanny more than Kricketune, as the likes of Claydol, Kabutops, Prinplup, and Sandslash are being more favored as hazard removers over Cryogonal, and all of them halt Kricketune but lose hard to Leavanny. Leavanny and Tune should switch Ranks at the very least.
 
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There's no way this thing should be in D-rank. It checks a lot of mons in this meta, such as basically all the mons in S-rank except for Heat Wave Xatu. It's a good stop to CM psychics in general, being able to Toxic Musharna without consequence and break the standard SubCM Uxie's subs with Meteor Mash:
252+ Atk Metang Meteor Mash vs. 188 HP / 60 Def Uxie: 85-102 (25.1 - 30.1%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Eats Mega Audino for breakfast, Jynx can do nothing to it, has priority for added utility AND also gets Stealth Rock. Did I mention that it can check both Swellow sets? Metang has way too much utility to rot down in D-rank, it obviously has a lot of flaws but it's easily at least as good as every mon in C- and should go at least there.
 
Ok so I'm on phone so ignore any mistakes.

Tauros S --> A+
This may seem conreversial but Tauros is not as good as it use to be. In a meta where fast strong mons reigned supreme, tauros was incredible and was an amazing late game sweeper. Now where not almost every team runs offense any more, tauros just doesn't have the same impact it did before.

Let's not forget how unreliable it's moves are it's most standard set is rockclimb/eq/fireblast/rock slide, all have a chance to miss except eq which gives LO recoil anyway. Also a lot of tauros checks are becoming more popular, those being piloswine, carracosta and rhydon which prevent tauros from doing its job effectively . Not much else to say really, tauros is still good and definitely worth A+ but with the growing in popularity checks arising, no offence based meta to take advantage of, and just being blind; Tauros should move down.


 
Some thoughts

exeggutor to B+/B

It's a good pokemon, I guess, but to me it's not on par with any of the other pokemon in A-. I think it has a really hard time in this tier at the moment for a number of reasons: every mon that gets Signal Beam carries it because of Malamar; it's incredibly slow; it's 4x weak to U-Turn; basically all of the mons in the ranks above have a good matchup against it except Lanturn and some rock types (Samu and Rhydon carry Megahorn while Ludicolo nearly OHKOs with LO Ice Beam); fighting types, one of the only things Exeggutor wants to switch into, all carry Knock Off which neutralises any Harvest set; Xatu is also incredibly common which basically walls it barring HP Ice and can U-Turn.

kecleon to B
AV Kec is definitely better than bad pokemon like Flareon (which should probably drop from B-) and Cryogonal. It's comparable to Hariyama in that it's a hugely specially bulky mon (so good check to Magmortar, Lilligant, etc) with decent offensive presence, although probably worse overall due to lack of Guts or Thick Fat. However it has a few notable advantages, including semi-reliable recovery in Drain Punch, STAB Knock Off, and much, much better typing and base power on its priority (Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch over Fake Out and BP). Strong priority is sooo good, and it even allows it to run a decent Power-up-Punch set which can boost up on weak special attackers like Claydol, Xatu, and defensive Uxie.

pawn to E6 B+
it's currently one of the best, if not the best, offensive switchins to CM Psychic types that run Signal Beam as their coverage move because of its typing. Pawn also has a lot of options beyond standard SD as well, I haven't seen anyone else running it but Stealth Rock is great because it's one of the only pokemon that can get rocks up vs. Xatu teams because who the fuck switches Xatu in against Pawniard. Pursuit is also a really broken move and can be run on just a 4 attacks set. Lastly it has a pretty good matchup against Klinklang as +1 Gear Grind has only about a 50% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and you can even run HP investment to avoid the 2HKO completely.
 
On my phone so excuse typos, but I really think Uxie should be S rank.

Let's start with the calm mind set. It is absolutely one of the best cm sweepers in the tier, along with Mush and Xatu. What makes Uxie stand out as a cm sweeper is access to giga drain to interact with substitute for a cool one mon combo. It's other traits don't really separate it from the two I mentioned so I won't go into detail about bulk or strong stab, but it's cm sweeper is with clearly one of the best.

Uxie's utility sets are also amazing. With access to stealth rock, thunder wave, uturn, and dual screens allows it to support the rest of its team extremely well, and by investing in its defenses it can reliably perform its support role. This bulk is what separates it from mespirit, a mon with the same utility access and greater offensive presence, but with the the bulk that allows Uxie to outperform mespirit in this role. Similarly, Uxie's access to all of these moves allows it to outclass mons like ferroseed, mawile, or crustle (not to say these mons don't have other traits that distinguish them and give them important roles, just saying that in this specific role Uxie outclasses them due to its wider move pool).

Lastly this mon can act as a great weather setter, and distinguishes itself from liepard again because of its bulk. While I personally would prefer prankster, Uxie's bulk gives it a valuable asset that liepard fails to provide.

Now clearly none of these sets on their own are S rank, but Uxie's access to all three sets, as well as its ability to somewhat blend these sets to best meet the needs of the team, pushes it into S rank imo. This mon is probably the highest usage mon in the tier right now, and it's very clear why.

EDIT: agree with Tauros dropping and Regirock and Magmortar rising.
 
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Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor
Okay so here's my preliminary thoughts:


Klinklang should be S. In my mind there's not really much doubt about that. We lost a pretty huge Klinklang check in Toad not so long ago and the meta really lacks reliable switch ins and counters to this thing. Lanturn, Prinplup, and other bulky resistances like fire types that lack reliable recovery cannot maintain their ability to check Klinklang for the whole battle, it can hit them on the switch and back out again to the point where a KO is on the cards after a set up.
Klinklang also gets a stupid amount of set up opportunities thanks to its fantastic natural bulk and solid steel typing. I'm not going to go through and list them all since everyone is aware by now, you have to play incredibly carefully to make sure you don't leave yourself vulnerable to a Klinklang set up.
Klinklang's ability to not only boost it's Atk but also DOUBLE it's speed all in one set up turn, something rhydon can only do in two turns, making Klinklang absolutely terrifying to play against, you have to almost play it like it's at +1/+2 from the start because of the amount of set up chances it gets.
Okay so not spending too long on this, here's my other suggestions:

citro said B, but I'm saying Kecleon to B+

The Greninja of NU. Both common sets, AV and Life Orb are so so scary, like damn. It's great special bulk and decent 60/70/120 overall bulk means it's almost impossible to take down in one go, especially when you don't know what type it'll be when you get around to hitting it! The ability to switch from normal to ghost type and dodge super effective moves with a priority shadow sneak is unmatched by other pokemon and makes Kecleon a master of mind games. Kecleon also gets a brilliant movepool, boasting moves like STAB power up punch, STAB drain punch, then a STAB sucker punch and STAB shadow sneak, as well as Knock Off just to rub it in. B+ is definitely the way to go for such a monster.

Fuck knows why Regirock has dropped back down since I battled for it to be so high in the last rankings, let's take another look:

Regirock B --> A


Let's look at this in terms of ability to perform it's role on a team. Firstly, what is Regirock's role in the current metagame?
  • Stealth Rocker
  • Archeops, Tauros, Klinklang, Xatu, Kangaskhan and other high ranking mons check
  • Physical OR Special wall
  • Status spreader/team support
Okay so, looking at Regirock's determined role on a team and the metagame at large, we have to decide whether it fulfils this role to an A grade standard? I for one, would say yes it does, way better than B grade standard.
Firstly, as its primary role is to set Stealth Rocks, I'd say it's fantastic, and does this to better than A grade standard. It threatens Xatu with rock STAB and stops it from coming in to bounce rocks without being incredibly risky, it's bulk allows it to tank multiple hits and get off rocks I'd say 99% of the time, undeniable A quality in this role.

Regirock checks all the S rank mons, even Klinklang: +1 252+ Atk Klinklang Gear Grind (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Regirock: 228-268 (62.6 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Regirock can Twave, EQ, Drain Punch, whatever it wants with it's brilliant movepool. And that's without any defense investment. Tauros, Xatu and Archeops are all destroyed.

Third, as a general wall besides the S rank mons. Regirock has a great base defense, allowing it to choose between mixed, physical and specially defensive, making it hard to choose what to hit it with during the battle, choose wrong, it can be costly. Specially defensive Regirock acts as a great Magmortar and Pyroar check, and even can tank a hit from Sawk Close Combat and get off a T-Wave/Explosion to knock it out: 252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Regirock: 308-366 (84.6 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO. Checking this many threats in the current meta doesn't go unheard of. The status-spreader role is definitely encapsulated in the first three points so I won't go into detail.

Here's some other cool calcs that show Regirock's bulk:
+1 252 SpA Lilligant Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regirock: 236-278 (64.8 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 126-150 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- 70.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 172-203 (47.2 - 55.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

One more thing I have to nominate:

Magmortar A --> A+
Magmortar, what to do to check this thing? Besides regirock of course. Recently this guy has been on all my teams and is an absolute god, let's start with the most obvious perk to using Magmortar, it's coverage. Only like 3 other NU mons get Fire Blast + Thunderbolt coverage; Weezing, Tauros and Lickilicky, and you wouldn't use those moves on them xd. Point being, this coverage is incredible, only Lanturn switches in on both and then this happens:
4 Atk Life Orb Magmortar Earthquake vs. 92 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 198-234 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recoveryWith HP Grass, Magmortar is unstoppable and can rip through whole teams. But it's slow, you say? Magmortar has decent natural bulk and can always find time to fire off a Fire Blast before it dies, it always grabs a kill and punches wholes in opponents teams, move this guy up.

Other things I agree with:
Uxie --> S
Exeggutor --> B, like, why has it been so high all this time
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life

Fletchinder for A+
Fletchinder is a beast right now. While Psychics are really common, Fighting types are still a big part of NU, and Fletchinder's here to beat them down with it's priority Acrobatics. It has Swords Dance to perform a sweep as well. While you may think it's walled by everything thanks to only using Flying STAB most of the time, some of it's proposed checks or counters are crippled by Will-O-Wisp. It can also run Overheat to hit Steel types, or Liechi Berry Natural Gift to hurt Carracosta and Quagsire a lot, while also doing a bit to Regirock. Priority Roost is also nice to somewhat negate the 4x SR damage and keep Fletch alive. SD is not the only set, as well. It has specially defensive and physically defensive sets that help it check Fighting types better. While it has bad bulk without Eviolite and is walled by many things, and it has that crippling SR weakness, Fletchinder is overall a very good pokemon right now and should rise. (Also, it might rise to RU next week, so let's give it the treatment it deserves in it's last few days at NU. R.I.P. Linda. ;_;)
 

Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor

Fletchinder for A+
Fletchinder is a beast right now. While Psychics are really common, Fighting types are still a big part of NU, and Fletchinder's here to beat them down with it's priority Acrobatics. It has Swords Dance to perform a sweep as well. While you may think it's walled by everything thanks to only using Flying STAB most of the time, some of it's proposed checks or counters are crippled by Will-O-Wisp. It can also run Overheat to hit Steel types, or Liechi Berry Natural Gift to hurt Carracosta and Quagsire a lot, while also doing a bit to Regirock. Priority Roost is also nice to somewhat negate the 4x SR damage and keep Fletch alive. SD is not the only set, as well. It has specially defensive and physically defensive sets that help it check Fighting types better. While it has bad bulk without Eviolite and is walled by many things, and it has that crippling SR weakness, Fletchinder is overall a very good pokemon right now and should rise. (Also, it might rise to RU next week, so let's give it the treatment it deserves in it's last few days at NU. R.I.P. Linda. ;_;)
My problem with fletchinder is how if you want to use any coverage moves such as the ones you mentioned, you need to sacrifice pretty crucial moves that hinder it's ability to consistently perform in return for a niche lure at best. Roost and Acro are staples, and so is Will-O-Wisp to stop yourself being completely walled by rock and steel types, furthermore, with liechi natural gift, you need to 1. sacrifice swords dance and 2. use it before using acrobatics or you'll be incredibly weak. Based on the limitations Fletchinder sets itself with it's movepool, I think it's fine in A based on how it performs it's main role, as a late game cleaner and revenge killer with priority acrobatics.
 

Sweet Jesus

Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...
Ok so I'm on phone so ignore any mistakes.

Tauros S --> A+
This may seem conreversial but Tauros is not as good as it use to be. In a meta where fast strong mons reigned supreme, tauros was incredible and was an amazing late game sweeper. Now where not almost every team runs offense any more, tauros just doesn't have the same impact it did before.

Let's not forget how unreliable it's moves are it's most standard set is rockclimb/eq/fireblast/rock slide, all have a chance to miss except eq which gives LO recoil anyway. Also a lot of tauros checks are becoming more popular, those being piloswine, carracosta and rhydon which prevent tauros from doing its job effectively . Not much else to say really, tauros is still good and definitely worth A+ but with the growing in popularity checks arising, no offence based meta to take advantage of, and just being blind; Tauros should move down.


A lot of tauros checks are popular because tauros wrecks havoc. If it wasn't for accuracy issues I would say with no doubt tauros is the best mon in the tier.
As I said in a previous post, tauros is so strong that pokemon that wall other normal types but not tauros are harder to fit on teams simply because you'll have to add a second tauros check. Besides tauros doesn't really need to run rock slide in the last slot. The possibility of iron head or zen headbutt means even gurdurr, cradily, mega dino and weezing are not exactly safe switch-ins. Tauros is one of the fastest mons in the tier, hits super hard, has insane coverage, all his true counters have important similarities (bar maybe gourgeist), he can get some good damage on practically all of them throughout the game and after all that, he isn't even frail.

You do take a risk when using tauros as his accuracy problems are rather annoying (I realy like iron head over rock slide because of that), but it doesn't stop him from being such a threat the meta has to adapt to it in a way an S tier mon would.
 

Disjunction

http://spo.ink/etern
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Not going to make a big post this time around but I strongly disagree with dropping Tauros from S-rank.

Tauros is one of the faces of Offense, next to Archeops, setting the standard for what the best speed tier in NU is, not just because it's fast, but because it's strong. Its awesome pool of coverage moves is what makes it so hard to switch into, being able to beat common Normal-type switchins such as Gourgeist, Vileplume, Weezing, Garbodor, Defensive Mawile, etc. The only truly reliable switch in to Tauros are bulky Rock-types, such as Regirock, Rhydon, and Carracosta, a bulky Ghost-type in Misdreavous, and Mega Audino. The reason these checks are "growing in popularity" is because of how threatening Tauros is. It's really why I couldn't stand to run Stunfisk or Mesprit as my rocker because they pair so poorly against Tauros compared to bulky Rock-types.

SJ got a post in before me but I'm posting this anyways cause it's important
 

Sweet Jesus

Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...
Kabutops A+ => A
I feel kabutops is really easy to throw into a team but isn't that good at anything in particular. Kabutops feels nice because he's the most offensive spinner (arguably tied with cryo), but really there aren't much walls that give a fuck about him regardless of the set. He can abuse rain but his stab coverage is not amazing making him rather easy to stop next to other sweepers like ludicolo.
He has some solid competition in both walling and sweeping from barbaracle and costa and his inferior bulk really is noticeable while his superior speed falls short to reaching the more important offensive speed tiers which his 2 main rivals both reach after a shell smash.

Even if it does have multiple sets, it's not really hard to predict either. If it's on a rain team, it'll sweep, otherwise it's just an offensive spinner with priority and decent moves/coverage.
I just really have never seen a kabutops do anything that important bar spinning in a critical situation (and even then he's not exactly the best at removing hazards, just the most offensive) which in my opinion is more deserving of A than A+.
 
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Unranked ---> C/C-
Clefairy is a pretty cool mon, especially now that it doesn't have to worry about getting its eviolite knocked off as much as before. It has a nice support set which, due to its large movepool, can set rocks, get off paralysis, and it has reliable recovery.

C+ ---> B-/B
Already posted about this in the old thread. Basically, Sneasel is gone leaving it with a bit more freedom, but it still isn't as good as it was pre-drops.
 
upload_2015-7-26_11-44-43.png

Regirock is fine in B and definitely shouldn't rise imo, Rhydon is just a ton better in this meta, hence it's rise to A+. While Rhydon may have a 4x weakness to Grass and Water, it's both stronger and bulkier than Regirock, with access to a pretty decent movepool with moves like Megahorn, Dragon Tail, Rock Polish and Swords Dance. While it may seem like it just adds weaknesses at first glance, the secondary ground typing gives it much more offensive presence than Regirock with STAB EQ also lets it deal with stuff like Rotom better. The only things that Regirock has over Rhydon is T-Wave, Lefties, and no 4x weaknesses, which is the reason that it's B-Rank in the 1st place.

upload_2015-7-26_11-59-0.png
-> A-
I've been using Vileplume a ton lately and I really think it should move up. Grass / Poison is really good defensive typing, letting it check pretty much all of the offensive Water- and Grass-types and absorb Toxic Spikes. It also has reliable recovery, a pretty annoying defensive ability in effect spore, pretty good offensive presence for a defensive mon, and the ability to threaten offensive mons that try and come in on it with a Sludge Bomb Poison. Even though the meta doesn't look too kind to it, it's really a mon that works a lot better in practice than it seems in theory and should move up.

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-> B
Articuno rips apart common balance builds right now. Ice-types with freeze dry are really good in general right now since most teams only ice resist tends to be a Water-type like Lanturn. Its speed tier is actually pretty nice right now since it can outspeed the abundance of mons in the 80-83 speed tier. It still needs a bunch of support to function well, but the ease at which it breaks common Lanturn / Xatu / Grass-type Balance builds warrants it a rise imo.
 
So I have a topics I want to bring up. Firstly wouldn't it make sense to wait for drops before making suggestions on what should move in viability? The tier is going to legit change so much in just four days. Usually it takes a bit longer to make changes to the viability list so the suggestions atm are not going to be too useful.

What I would like to talk about is how mons are rated on the viability list. There are many factors that need to be considered, such as whether on mon is outclassed. If it's something that is basically outclassed but is still quite viable on it's own how much should that play into the viability? Miltank is a great example of this since all of it's rolls a generally done better by different mons. Also cacturne is going to be fairly outclassed by shiftry. It will still have it's own niches which are important.

Another thing is preparation mons. Klinklang(In previous metas)/lilligant/offensive costa are mons that if you prepare for properly they aren't that much of a problem. But the destroy so much of the meta normally they are known to be extreme dangers. Then you have other mons such as archeops/jynx that are always useful being able to get off shit like lovely kisses and stealth rocks.

Then there are also hype mons/mons that need support. Things that are not incredibly good on their own but can be supported VERY easily so that they can do a unique and easy roll. Regular Audino was an example of this. It's not hard to break regular audino but it could come in on so many mons get a wish off and easily support the rest of it's teams. How much should a mon needing to be independent should play into viability.

Sorry about that just throwing my thoughts out there!
 
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Regirock is fine in B and definitely shouldn't rise imo, Rhydon is just a ton better in this meta, hence it's rise to A+. While Rhydon may have a 4x weakness to Grass and Water, it's both stronger and bulkier than Regirock, with access to a pretty decent movepool with moves like Megahorn, Dragon Tail, Rock Polish and Swords Dance. While it may seem like it just adds weaknesses at first glance, the secondary ground typing gives it much more offensive presence than Regirock with STAB EQ also lets it deal with stuff like Rotom better. The only things that Regirock has over Rhydon is T-Wave, Lefties, and no 4x weaknesses, which is the reason that it's B-Rank in the 1st place.

View attachment 46745-> A-
I've been using Vileplume a ton lately and I really think it should move up. Grass / Poison is really good defensive typing, letting it check pretty much all of the offensive Water- and Grass-types and absorb Toxic Spikes. It also has reliable recovery, a pretty annoying defensive ability in effect spore, pretty good offensive presence for a defensive mon, and the ability to threaten offensive mons that try and come in on it with a Sludge Bomb Poison. Even though the meta doesn't look too kind to it, it's really a mon that works a lot better in practice than it seems in theory and should move up.

View attachment 46746-> B
Articuno rips apart common balance builds right now. Ice-types with freeze dry are really good in general right now since most teams only ice resist tends to be a Water-type like Lanturn. Its speed tier is actually pretty nice right now since it can outspeed the abundance of mons in the 80-83 speed tier. It still needs a bunch of support to function well, but the ease at which it breaks common Lanturn / Xatu / Grass-type Balance builds warrants it a rise imo.
I can vouch for Articuno being a strong force with support. I've been throwing it in a few different teams lately. I enjoy subroostLO with freezedry and hurricane. Anything it doesn't hit for SE damage takes a massive dent. A defog set is outclassed but surprisingly effective IMO. Still prefer straight offense with two attacks but its worth mentioning.
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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So I have a topics I want to bring up. Firstly wouldn't it make sense to wait for drops before making suggestions on what should move in viability? The tier is going to legit change so much in just four days. Usually it takes a bit longer to make changes to the viability list so the suggestions atm are not going to be too useful.

What I would like to talk about is how mons are rated on the viability list. There are many factors that need to be considered, such as whether on mon is outclassed. If it's something that is basically outclassed but is still quite viable on it's own how much should that play into the viability? Miltank is a great example of this since all of it's rolls a generally done better by different mons. Also cacturne is going to be fairly outclassed by shiftry. It will still have it's own niches which are important.
There has been speculation that we were going to get multiple drops in the past and it never happened. Potential drops in 4 days is no reason to hold off on discussing potential drops and rises in the viability rankings. Also please refrain from theorymonning things like Shiftry potentially dropping and affecting another mons role. Save that for if it actually happens.
 
There has been speculation that we were going to get multiple drops in the past and it never happened. Potential drops in 4 days is no reason to hold off on discussing potential drops and rises in the viability rankings. Also please refrain from theorymonning things like Shiftry potentially dropping and affecting another mons role. Save that for if it actually happens.
Was using it as an example of a catagory of mon wasn't theorymoning :/ It is just so good of a clearcut example that I wanted to use it. There are loads of mons who are low in viability because other mons are better for thier job. I'm saying establishing guidlines for how much that affects their viability could be somewhat useful...

I see your point tho mentioning shiftry as a future drop is not a good idea. Probs would have been better to speak to it as it was in the past when it was in NU?

The holding off thing was just an opinion XD I've seen things rise just before a ban/usage change and then have to move down later when some1 notices it XD
 
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Commenting on the nominations here in the thread that have caught my eye (or noms that i made in the older thread)...
Clefairy -> C: It's extremely underrated right now, it deserves a rank (i'm glad someone agreed with me)
Vileplume -> A: it's amazing right now, gotta love the hax, knock off sponge, reliable recovery + an amazing fighting switch in, powerful recovery options and mixed bulk on either side and no reason not to run it right now. Also offensive sets... there are no switch ins in this tier.
Klinklang -> A+: It's not an S rank pokemon. I completely avoid using it at the start of matches if I use it in my team because it has no real offensive pressure however its late game sweeping potential is massive. I'd consider it extremely similar to lilligant in how it works, and it doesn't help that its main stab is 85% accurate and it only really has 1 set. It has a shit tonne of hard checks and counters in this tier (tangela, poliwrath, prin etc etc) and they aren't hard to fit onto teams at all. I really don't think it sits in with the S rank crowd.
Tauros -> S: Stays S rank.
Fletch -> A+: Nope.
Regi -> A: I'd rather use rhydon right now since sneasel isn't in the tier and you don't need to be neutral to ice anymore, aswell as volt switch stop and rotom being extremely relevant right now.
Metang -> C+: Yes pls. Excellent check to a lot of mons right now.


My own noms being:
Poliwrath -> A-: It's so good right now, really it is. whilst acting as a klinklang counter, it also stops shell smashers such as barb and costa, it checks DD rhydon excellently and scald is a bitch of a move to switch into. priority fighting moves on the special side, you honestly don't realise how much this mon checks without using it and it's an amazing pokemon right now.
Rotom -> A: It's a tier defining threat right now and with a massive lack of sneasel, it's free to roam in a tier where every volt switch stop hates being burned or dislikes stab shadow balls. momentum gainer, honestly it's amazing.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life

Nominating Pinsir for A-
Pinsir is remarkably good right now. Due to the amount of Psychics around, Pinsir thrives by beating them and being one of the best partners for them, as he can beat their Dark type enemies. He has a multitude of viable sets, them being Swords Dance, Mold Breaker Stealth Rock (It breaks through Xatu ahhhhh), Choice Band, and Choice Scarf Moxie is also viable. he has good coverage moves like Superpower to beat his checks and counters, and his bulk ain't half bad. His speed, while not the greatest (it can't even outspeed Timid Uxie), allows him to outspeed the 80-83 speed tier at least, so he has a chance against threats like Magmortar if caught in a pinch. Some problems with Pinsir is that he has subpar special bulk, so he can't set up on boosted Psychic types sometimes if he's SD, and weaknesses to some common types, like Fire and Flying, as well as a SR weakness, plauge him, but Pinsir is a pretty cool pokemon right now, and imo should rise.

My opinions on current topics of discussion:
Regirock from B to B+: Regirock suffers a bunch of competition from Rhydon in this meta, as Rhydon, while having two weaknesses to Grass and Water, is more powerful, a bit more bulky, and has STAB Earthquake to do more damage. Rhydon also has an offensive Dual Dance set that is really nice in the meta, while Regirock only has his support set. Regirock may have a few advantages over Rhydon, like Thunder Wave and the ability to hold Lefties, but Rhydon is so good right now that Regirock imo shouldn't rise.
Vileplume to A-: Agree. Vileplume is very nice right now, as it checks the Grass and Water types running rampant right now, as well as checking Fighting types. It has suprisingly high special attack for a defensive mon, and even has recovery in Moonlight and a pretty annoying ability in Effect Spore to boot. While the weakness to Psychic and Fire type moves definetely hurt it, Vileplume is really good right now and should rise.
Clefairy to C: Agree. Clefairy is underrated, as it has awesome defenses, SR, recovery, a cool ability, just an all around cool wall. While it can be set up bait for some sweepers due to it's meh special attack, and Knock Off can be a problem, but Clefairy is a pretty cool thing in NU, and definetely deserves a rank.
 
I'm actually gonna defend Regirock going up to B+ Not having those 4x weaknesses to Water and Grass is really nice and can be useful in some pinch situations against stuff like Cacturne and Lanturn, while also giving it a better matchup vs hazard removers like Prinplup, Kabutops, and Pelipper. It also isn't weak to Ice, which is less important nowadays, but it helps out against stuff like Cryogonal (another hazard remover), Articuno, and Vanilluxe. While it might have less bulk than Rhydon, its typing makes it more difficult to threaten out and OHKO since it has no 4x weaknesses. The biggest reason I like it though is Thunder Wave. It's honestly such an important move for crippling all the fast threats in this meta like Tauros, Archeops, Kabutops, Jynx, and Pyroar just to name a few. It's pretty spammable too since out of the S, A, and B rank mons, only Xatu, Lanturn, Rotom (all forms unfortunately), and Electivire can really punish you for using it (EDIT: also Ground types too whoops :/) and literally anything else gets paralyzed and is crippled for the rest of the match unless it's already slow as knobs. This makes Regirock a solid emergency sweeper stop if it has enough health left since its bulk makes it really hard to OHKO. Drain Punch and Lefties also help it stick around longer, even if it does have slightly less bulk than Rhydon. While Rhydon is more versatile and has more power and bulk, Regirock has enough going for it that it should move up a bit.

Some other nom stuff:

Totally agree with Kabutops down to A I always find it kind of underwhelming and one-dimensional. It's just a little too slow to fit comfortably on offense, its coverage isn't amazing, and it's pretty frail. Overall still really good and threatening, but it isn't deserving of A+

Liepard to A+ Probably the best utility mon in the tier behind Xatu. Knock Off and Encore make it a fantastic stop to threatening CM Psychics. Knock Off and Sucker Punch do pretty solid damage with BlackGlasses. It also gets priority yellow magic, making it a great sweeper stop. U-turn is wonderful for pivoting and scouting, as well as dealing decent chip damage. Liepard is also a weather team staple due to its ability to cripple things with Knock Off and TWave, set up weather, and U-turn into a sweeper. While I personally don't have as much experience with the NP Copycat set, it's pretty threatening as well and catches many people off guard.

This was mentioned in the old thread, and I'll just touch on it a little, but I think Musharna should go to S. Once Dark types and Toxic users are gone, the CM Barrier set can set up on nearly anything in the tier, given a free switch-in. It can even get around Toxic and Dark types by adjusting its set to run Signal Beam or Heal Bell. It can also run a BP set with CM and/or Barrier, or act as a pivot and fighting switch-in. Overall, i truly think it's a top-tier mon and deserving of S rank.
 
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Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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Thunder Wave's pretty spammable too since out of the S, A, and B rank mons, only Xatu, Lanturn, Rotom (all forms unfortunately), and Electivire can really punish you for using it and literally anything else gets paralyzed and is crippled for the rest of the match unless it's already slow as knobs.
I believe that Regirock's greatest asset over other Rock-types (aka TWave) also happens to be one of its most notable downfalls: it is, for the most part, complete and utter Ground bait. Torterra, Golurk, Claydol, Quagsire, Sandslash, and of course Rhydon itself can all switch into Regirock with sheer impunity. The other bulky Rock-types, being Rhydon and Carracosta, don't offer completely free switch-ins to Ground-types, and just give up less momentum in general. Regirock is by no means a bad mon in itself (you can pull off funny paraflinch shenanigans with TWave + Rock Slide), but it doesn't really offer a whole lot that the main bulky Rock-types don't, and it doesn't help that the other bulky Rocks can bluff offensive sets (in preview at least) while Regirock pretty much telegraphs itself as a bulky set. One of the few remaining reasons to even consider Regirock over the other Rock-types would be that it takes on Fire-types substantially better, but even that niche is looking to be on shaky ground considering Magmortar's transition from HP Grass to Focus Blast.

I don't know why people say that Kabutops's coverage isn't amazing; STAB Water and Rock combo is not only resisted by few, but hits a lot of the meta pretty hard, doing plenty of damage to all but the physically bulkiest. Meanwhile, Aqua Jet and Weak Armor (which Tops makes decent use of due to its resists) keep Kabutops relevant against offense despite its middling Speed. Even in the worst case scenario in that it can't break stuff, access to Rapid Spin at least allows it to contribute. Not only is it highly flexible for a mon with just one main set, but even Sweet Jesus admits that Tops is pretty splashable on offense.

Teddeh summed up most of my thoughts about Klinklang; the high late-game sweeping potential is definitely mellowed down by its average to poor early-/mid-game presence. Even if most of its counters have no reliable recovery (cough*Quagsire*cough), Klinklang itself doesn't have much in the way of capitalizing on that unlike most setup sweepers, outside of throwing out unboosted Returns. Klinklang could opt for Toxic > Return to cripple those bulky mons, but then it would run into new issues as it would rely solely on its Steel STAB to sweep teams, which also isn't a cakewalk as Steel resists are plenty in this tier and Toxic may take a while to wear them down (or in the case of Lanturn, not at all). Not to mention its lone STAB is a tad inaccurate, and if Barbaracle taught us anything it's that setup + inaccurate move leads to bad times (hit-and-run attackers like Rock Climb Tauros and Fire Blast Pyroar do not mind nearly as much since they can at least afford to miss on the switch; "pure" setup sweepers shouldn't even attempt to attack on the switch, so if they do miss they will be subject to attack); hell, Gear Grind is double contact, which isn't good news with Garbodor being so prevalent.

Don't get me wrong, Klinklang is still a very solid mon and is threatening enough for mons to prepare for it, but I feel it has just enough inconsistencies to hold it back from S, or at the very least alongside other dangerous A+ Rank setup sweepers like Lilligant and Rhydon.
 
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Could someone explain why Jynx is A+? From my perspective, that's basically saying Jynx is the best choice scarf user in the tier, which I don't necessarily agree with (Rotom, Sawk, Mespirit, Lilligant). Also Ice isn't as offensively potent in this tier as other tiers due to the lack of dragons and prevalence of rock types, in addition to your standard bulky waters, av Magmortar and less commonly Hariyama, Mawile, etc. It's weak to rocks, knock off, and lovely kiss is inaccurate. And obviously dry skin does not an A+ mon make it. I think A- is more suitable.
 
Could someone explain why Jynx is A+? From my perspective, that's basically saying Jynx is the best choice scarf user in the tier, which I don't necessarily agree with (Rotom, Sawk, Mespirit, Lilligant). Also Ice isn't as offensively potent in this tier as other tiers due to the lack of dragons and prevalence of rock types, in addition to your standard bulky waters, av Magmortar and less commonly Hariyama, Mawile, etc. It's weak to rocks, knock off, and lovely kiss is inaccurate. And obviously dry skin does not an A+ mon make it. I think A- is more suitable.
It's not ranked A+ on its ability to use a choice scarf, it's ranked A+ at its ability to break cores effectively and almost indefinitely cripple one pokemon on the opposing team since there is no immunity to lovely kiss. Pokemon such as hariyama, av magmortar and mawile are not answers to jynx. Mawile is 2hit ko'd by either focus blast or ice beam, depending on whether or not you're choosing to run a life orb jynx, sashed jynx or even sub-nasty plot with leftovers. Magmortar is destroyed by psyshock aswell as hariyama also, proving they're not answers. Yes jynx is weak to rocks, however it's immune to water making it an extremely viable scald switch in for pokemon such as pelipper, mantine, prinplup etc and can break apart cores easily. With the lack of sneasel in this tier there to pursuit trap it, it's extremely viable and almost guarantees a kill / crippling a pokemon once per game. I feel it fully deserves A+.
 
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