a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
I think the fast/fat Tran spread should go under utility, if anything. More reliable Scizor check is the main draw. Not a huge fan of fat stallbreaker, personally.
What KOs would the extra bulk be useful for specifically? If it doesn't avoid any relevant KOs, I don't see any reason not to run max/max - which strictly speaking there isn't necessarily no reason to run either - situational still - but if the bulk doesn't do anything relevant that uninvested can't, then I don't think it's worth it.No Gyarados or Mega Gyarados should run more speed than 224+.
Before DD you still outspeed max speed tran. Only thing that might be consider major, and you don't outspeed is 236 Kyurem-B and you should not stay in anyway because of matchup.
After DD you still outspeed Loppuny and Manetric. You don't outspeed sceptile and bedrill but both are insanely rare. Because you don't outspeed scarf Keldeo, Lando, Mega zam and other even with max speed at +1 runing more speed don't offers anything and more bulk might be used to get extra DD.
If you drop some attack (72HP investment) you live return from mega loppuny after rocks. If you drop attack even more (120HP) you can almost always set up on bulky lando t.What KOs would the extra bulk be useful for specifically? If it doesn't avoid any relevant KOs, I don't see any reason not to run max/max - which strictly speaking there isn't necessarily no reason to run either - situational still - but if the bulk doesn't do anything relevant that uninvested can't, then I don't think it's worth it.
Sorry, but tell me which mon from this range is commonly used and is thread to Gyra?You should be running max speed on Gyarados so that you can outpace base 80s and below before a DDance. Dont really care about HP benchmarks but there's definitely a reason why speed is important for DDance Gyarados.
I don't checked but I have no problem with 72HP spread. Sweeps teams like beast. 120HP is a bit untested.Ah, got that. Any KOs it misses or no?
My bad, 224+ is 279 speed.Dgigersby should be running Jolly anyways to me personally, Gardevoir before mega, why are you speed tieing with Heatran is beyond me, if getting Edged by 281 Lando-T is something you're keen on by all means be my guest, I'm not a fan of a gyarados who is outpaced by Lucario :/. For some really arbitrary HP benchmarks, which btw is taken from attack not Speed most times anyways which leads to not much of a point for this discussion, why leave yourself open to the possibilites? Do we run enough speed on Weavile just to outpace Torn-t? That's a theoretical question.
Edit; my point being is why leave yourself open to these possibilites on speed benchmarks knowing you wont get outpaced by these instead of forcing yourself into these unnecessary positions. Ive ran bulk on gyara but its not removing speed. Done on the matter though just wanted to point why running speed is important and the its not common philosophy in regards to speed can lead to some pretty sloppy building.
Ok, whatever you say it is how it is. It's your topic.The reason why we don't put non-max speed spreads on this compendium for mons like Gyara is the same reason why stuff like 216 Speed EV Torn-T or 224 Speed EV (or w/e its old spread was) Raikou fell out of favor. The extra bulk hardly matters when opposing mons will just end up speed creeping anyway, leading to the question (why isn't max speed the standard?) You can certainly run that spread if you want, that's no problem, but given this is a guide for players to check out the standard EV spreads, we don't want to clutter it up with arbitrary EV spreads such as that.
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 210-247 (63.4 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth RockIf you drop some attack (72HP investment) you live return from mega loppuny after rocks. If you drop attack even more (120HP) you can almost always set up on bulky lando t.
Um, Mega Loppuny get outspeed after 1DD and OHKO with bounce.252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 210-247 (63.4 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 210-247 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 160-190 (48.3 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 160-190 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I'm not exactly seeing your defensive benchmarks here. Meanwhile, getting outsped by Mega Altaria is huge.
Can you explain why you're removing Scarf Hydreigon and Bulky Excadrill? The other stuff I don't care about but I think these sets are ok enough to keep around from experience.So I'm removing
Support Mega Alt (can be merged with specially offense or some variant of DDD)
Pursuit Bish (literally ass without SD)
NP + 2 Attacks Celebi (can be merged with BP set)
Belly Drum Chesnaught
Scarf Diggersby (probably rename it to Band and rearrange the wording to fit band)
CB Dragonite (DD is just better)
Mixed Mega Garchomp
Physically Defensive Gastrodon
Offensive Infernape (plain bad and defensive is what you should use IF you ever use it)
Utility Mew (usually defog but stallbreaker is usually better and utility is verrryy niche)
CM Mega Sableye
Defog Mega Scizor
i'm just going to leave this here for about an hour and whoever cares can explain why they think a set shouldn't drop or any other sets that should be dropped along with those listed above.
also i'm making hailfall's merges