Resource ORAS OU EV Spread Compendium

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bludz

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I think the fast/fat Tran spread should go under utility, if anything. More reliable Scizor check is the main draw. Not a huge fan of fat stallbreaker, personally.
 
About my Mega Scizor spread from a while back, I would just completely drop the mention of the 188 SpD EVs and say to swap 44 Atk and 16 Def around to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Lopunny. 200 SpD EVs avoids the OHKO from Mega Diancie's HP Fire after rocks, but IMO, you could clarify that in the description and say that it avoids everything else by extension.
 
Don't expect this to be added to the compendium because it's pretty specific, but for teams super weak to amoonguss (like all of mine idk):


Garchomp @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 28 HP / 172 Atk / 56 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw

It's pretty straight-forward. 0 investment Amoonguss will always fail to break your sub with Giga Drain. 28 HP ensures Salac activates upon using sub three times.

0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 28 HP / 56 SpD Garchomp: 76-90 (20.8 - 24.7%)

e: also forgot to mention that Smog doesn't work through sub for those that don't know.
 
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Sun

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bulky mega hera spread shoul be add
240 HP 136 Atk / 132 Spe

The given EV spread has enough Speed investment to outpace uninvested Landorus-T after Mega Evolving. The Attack EVs, paired with an Adamant nature, ensure a 2HKO on standard Magic Guard Clefable with Rock Blast most of the time. The remaining EVs are placed into HP to make use of Mega Heracross's great bulk, allowing it to takes hits from threats such as Bisharp, Mega Lopunny, and Weavile much better. (take from the analysis)
 
No Gyarados or Mega Gyarados should run more speed than 224+.

Before DD you still outspeed max speed tran. Only thing that might be consider major, and you don't outspeed is 236 Kyurem-B and you should not stay in anyway because of matchup.

After DD you still outspeed Loppuny and Manetric. You don't outspeed sceptile and bedrill but both are insanely rare. Because you don't outspeed scarf Keldeo, Lando, Mega zam and other even with max speed at +1 runing more speed don't offers anything and more bulk might be used to get extra DD.
 
No Gyarados or Mega Gyarados should run more speed than 224+.

Before DD you still outspeed max speed tran. Only thing that might be consider major, and you don't outspeed is 236 Kyurem-B and you should not stay in anyway because of matchup.

After DD you still outspeed Loppuny and Manetric. You don't outspeed sceptile and bedrill but both are insanely rare. Because you don't outspeed scarf Keldeo, Lando, Mega zam and other even with max speed at +1 runing more speed don't offers anything and more bulk might be used to get extra DD.
What KOs would the extra bulk be useful for specifically? If it doesn't avoid any relevant KOs, I don't see any reason not to run max/max - which strictly speaking there isn't necessarily no reason to run either - situational still - but if the bulk doesn't do anything relevant that uninvested can't, then I don't think it's worth it.
 
What KOs would the extra bulk be useful for specifically? If it doesn't avoid any relevant KOs, I don't see any reason not to run max/max - which strictly speaking there isn't necessarily no reason to run either - situational still - but if the bulk doesn't do anything relevant that uninvested can't, then I don't think it's worth it.
If you drop some attack (72HP investment) you live return from mega loppuny after rocks. If you drop attack even more (120HP) you can almost always set up on bulky lando t.
 
You should be running max speed on Gyarados so that you can outpace base 80s and below before a DDance. Dont really care about HP benchmarks but there's definitely a reason why speed is important for DDance Gyarados.
Sorry, but tell me which mon from this range is commonly used and is thread to Gyra?

278 is 224+ Gyra speed.

Ah, got that. Any KOs it misses or no?
I don't checked but I have no problem with 72HP spread. Sweeps teams like beast. 120HP is a bit untested.
 
Dgigersby should be running Jolly anyways to me personally, Gardevoir before mega, why are you speed tieing with Heatran is beyond me, if getting Edged by 281 Lando-T is something you're keen on by all means be my guest, I'm not a fan of a gyarados who is outpaced by Lucario :/. For some really arbitrary HP benchmarks, which btw is taken from attack not Speed most times anyways which leads to not much of a point for this discussion, why leave yourself open to the possibilites? Do we run enough speed on Weavile just to outpace Torn-t? That's a theoretical question.

Edit; my point being is why leave yourself open to these possibilites on speed benchmarks knowing you wont get outpaced by these instead of forcing yourself into these unnecessary positions. Ive ran bulk on gyara but its not removing speed. Done on the matter though just wanted to point why running speed is important and the its not common philosophy in regards to speed can lead to some pretty sloppy building.
 
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Eclipse

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The reason why we don't put non-max speed spreads on this compendium for mons like Gyara is the same reason why stuff like 216 Speed EV Torn-T or 224 Speed EV (or w/e its old spread was) Raikou fell out of favor. The extra bulk hardly matters when opposing mons will just end up speed creeping anyway, leading to the question (why isn't max speed the standard?) You can certainly run that spread if you want, that's no problem, but given this is a guide for players to check out the standard EV spreads, we don't want to clutter it up with arbitrary EV spreads such as that.
 
Dgigersby should be running Jolly anyways to me personally, Gardevoir before mega, why are you speed tieing with Heatran is beyond me, if getting Edged by 281 Lando-T is something you're keen on by all means be my guest, I'm not a fan of a gyarados who is outpaced by Lucario :/. For some really arbitrary HP benchmarks, which btw is taken from attack not Speed most times anyways which leads to not much of a point for this discussion, why leave yourself open to the possibilites? Do we run enough speed on Weavile just to outpace Torn-t? That's a theoretical question.

Edit; my point being is why leave yourself open to these possibilites on speed benchmarks knowing you wont get outpaced by these instead of forcing yourself into these unnecessary positions. Ive ran bulk on gyara but its not removing speed. Done on the matter though just wanted to point why running speed is important and the its not common philosophy in regards to speed can lead to some pretty sloppy building.
My bad, 224+ is 279 speed.

Well, there is solid reason why one should run this speed. All of mons from that range are uncommon. The most common is Kyurem-B and as I said I would never stay in. Other is gardevoir which what its mega asap so it is common lead.

Things like dragonite, diggersby, soft sand lando have really small usage and lucario even if outspeed can't do anything to regular gyrados.

Reward for such risk (more bulk, which allows to set up on bulky lando t, be less vunerable to sand) makes it tempting to try.

Weavile for other hand is painfully comon, you will see this thing much more than gyrados, and facing another Weavile with your Weaviel is not something too rare so you want to make it at leas speed tie.
The reason why we don't put non-max speed spreads on this compendium for mons like Gyara is the same reason why stuff like 216 Speed EV Torn-T or 224 Speed EV (or w/e its old spread was) Raikou fell out of favor. The extra bulk hardly matters when opposing mons will just end up speed creeping anyway, leading to the question (why isn't max speed the standard?) You can certainly run that spread if you want, that's no problem, but given this is a guide for players to check out the standard EV spreads, we don't want to clutter it up with arbitrary EV spreads such as that.
Ok, whatever you say it is how it is. It's your topic.

However I feel like you don't understand what I mean in my post.
 
If you drop some attack (72HP investment) you live return from mega loppuny after rocks. If you drop attack even more (120HP) you can almost always set up on bulky lando t.
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 210-247 (63.4 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 210-247 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

-1 0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 160-190 (48.3 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 160-190 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I'm not exactly seeing your defensive benchmarks here. Meanwhile, getting outsped by Mega Altaria is huge.
 
Was bored so i did a quick skim through the spreads, this is what i noticed that should/can be changed.

Azumarill: In the description of belly drum i would tack on mention of going 252 speed jolly. Something like this
A spread of 12 HP / 244 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature may be used to circumvent certain checks like Rotom-W provided they are not running enough speed to creep it. Such a set is especially effective in tandem with Return as it allows Azumarill to outspeed and KO other checks like standard Mega Venusaur after a small amount of prior damage.

Clefable: This is a spread i would add for unaware fable. Imo its the best spread for clef to run if ur going unaware but i wont say the other should be removed since its still the standard analysis one for unaware clef. The specifc benchmark mine hits is avoidng the 2hko from lo serp leaf storm (252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Clefable: 153-183 (38.9 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery). Also the current physdef spread mentions clefable checking a lot of mons it doesnt actually check at all (252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 225-273 (57.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) (252+ Atk Soft Sand Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 205-243 (52.1 - 61.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) (252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 217-256 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) so i would change the description a bit. I think mentioning power up punch lopunny and calm mind latios would be a much better representation of what physdef unaware clef is actually used to beat.
Specially Defensive Unaware Wall
248 HP / 56 Def / 204 SpD
Calm Nature

This spread combined with Unaware allows Clefable to counter many threatening boosting Special Attackers such as Nasty Plot Thundurus, Contrary Serperior, Quiver Dance Volcarona, and Tail Glow Manaphy. 248 HP and 204 Special Defense EVs with a Calm Nature allow Clefable to survive two Life Orb Leaf Storms from Serperior and every weaker neutral or resisted Special Attack. The remaining 56 EVs are placed in Defense to improve Clefable's matchup against physical or mixed attackers like Life Orb Kyurem-B or Dragon Dance Dragonite.
Physically Defensive Unaware Wall
248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature

The 248 HP investment minimizes entry hazard damage as well as any residual damage from status or sand. Maximum Defense investment allows Clefable to check a variety of attackers such as Power-Up Punch Mega Lopunny, Swords Dance Weavile, and Calm Mind Latios. Unaware is Clefable's chosen ability to ignore any boosts the opponent's Pokemon has accumulated, making Clefable a good defensive wall.

Crawdaunt: I would unslash Adamant because the description highly discourages it and it leaves Crawdaunt unable to outspeed many key targets.

Diancie: I would add this spread, as it really is good enough to warrant its own spread and not just a mention.
Physically Offensive
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature

Maximum Attack investment makes this spread unique, allowing Mega Diancie to circumvent several checks to the specially offensive set such as Clefable and Amoonguss, while being more threatening to switch into for several Pokemon which are still counters such as Chansey at the expense of being able to reliably OHKO Bisharp and Latios with Moonblast. Maximum speed investment is still used to allow Diancie to stay in its stellar speed tier. A spread of 180 Atk / 76 SpA / 252 Spe can be used as it retains the ability to OHKO Latios and Bisharp while still improving the matchup against specially defensive threats.
and the protect set would need to be tweaked a little then, these are the changes i would make (im also adding something about 32 attack here to kill Zapdos since thats an okay benchmark but not as extreme as running max attack).
Specially Offensive
8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature

To make full use of Mega Diancie's great Speed tier, full investment in Speed is necessary. 8 Attack EVs allows Mega Diancie to OHKO Mega Charizard X, while the rest is put in Special Attack for Mega Diancie to hit as hard as possible. Alternatively, a spread of 32 Atk / 224 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive nature can be used to OHKO Zapdos with Diamond Storm after Stealth Rock.

Kyurem-B: change the spread for mixed attacker to 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe please, theres not much reason not to go max speed and tie with other kyube.

Landorus-T: I think its worth mentioning running 88 speed for the defensive set, as it lets lando outpace neutral natured base 70s. Heres what i would put:
88 Speed EVs can be used to outpace neutral-natured base 70 Speed Pokemon such as Modest Volcanion or Adamant Breloom.

Lucario: It literally says "theres no point in ever using a Jolly nature over an Adamant nature" but jolly is still slashed. Please remove this.

Mega Medicham: I would slash jolly with adamant. Its not really bad even if adamant is usually preferred, and it lets you outspeed some stuff like jolly sand rush excadrill out of sand. Something like this
An Adamant nature is preferred to hit several benchmarks such as 2HKOing standard Magic Guard Clefable and OKHOing Rotom-W after Stealth Rock with High Jump Kick. A Jolly nature is an alternative that allows Medicham to outspeed Kyurem-B and Sand Rush Excadrill out of sand with a positive-Speed nature.

Reuniclus: I would change this spread to 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD Bold which lets it always avoid the 2hko from mega diancie's moonblast. Idt not beating LO terrakion 100% of the time matters really because no one has used that set in like 10000 years afaik and reuni gets dunked on by band anyways. Either way i think we can all agree diancie is more relevant. Ill make a description for if you want to implement the new spread, but if you want to edit the 68 spd spread mentioned just make it 80 then (that was for when diancie ran enough atk for ohkoing zapdos often. and the 12 spd hits a decently relevant benchmark, proof here: 248 SpA Mega Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Reuniclus: 189-223 (44.5 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery) I guess you dont have to do anything but i dont really see a reason not to when reuni still beats all the normal stuff the 68 spd spread does with 80.
Calm Mind
252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD
Bold Nature

The HP and Special Defense investment allows Reuniclus to take two Moonblasts from Mega Diancie after Leftovers recovery the remaining EVs are put into defense with a Bold nature to maximize Reuniclus' physical bulk in order to enable it to take on threats like Mega Medicham and Mega Lopunny.
also the title offensive trick room is there, but it lacks EVs or a description, i hope this will suffice:
Offensive Trick Room
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature

Reuniclus's Special Attack is maximized as to be as threatening as possible under Trick Room. The rest of the EVs are used to maximize overall bulk and to let Reuniclus more easily take hits. A Quiet nature is used so reuniclus can outspeed almost everything under Trick Room, while further bolstering its Special Attack.

Serperior: SubSeed set is missing a description or spread, so i have one to add (copypasted from analysis but hey).
SubSeed
56 HP / 200 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature

The HP EVs prevent Rotom-W's Hydro Pump from breaking Serperior's Substitutes. 252 Speed EVs with a Timid Nature are used to achieve the highest Speed tier possible, since it is Serperior's most vital stat and useful for outspeeding many common threats. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Special Attack to make Serperior a deadlier sweeper. An alternate spread of 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe is an option as well to maintain maximum offensive pressure

Suicune: Description fails to explain the 16 Speed EVs

Tangrowth: Physically defensive set is missing description, heres one. Again stolen from analysis
Physically Defensive
244 HP / 216 Def / 48 SpD
Relaxed Nature

The HP EVs increase Tangrowth's overall bulk and maximize Regenerator recovery, while the Special Defense EVs allow Tangrowth to survive Life Orb Starmie's Ice Beam. The rest of the EVs are poured into Defense to maximize physical bulk so that Tangrowth can better check Excadrill, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Gyarados, among other Pokemon. A Relaxed nature boosts Defense and allows Tangrowth to use both physical and special moves without either being weakened, and Tangrowth doesn't need its subpar Speed for much anyway.

Toxicroak: It straight up says jolly is superior to adamant in the description so probably just unslash ada.

Victini: I would add specs set. Heres what the spread would be
Choice Specs
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature

Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment is used to make Victini as fast and powerful as possible. A Timid nature is used to tie with other base 100s such as Manaphy and outspeed Kyurem-B and Jolly Sand Rush Excadrill outside sand. A Modest nature is another option to boost Victini's power at the expense of missing a few speed benchmarks.


Some of these have two exactly the same spreads that do similar things. I might recommend certain ones be merged just because its kind of pointless to seperate them. Choice scarf typically has different descriptions relating to the speed tier and natures and such, so that can stay imo. Feel free to ignore the merging points here if you dont agree with it, I just think its kind of pointless to have the same spreads with similar descriptions twice. Here they are
Dragalge: Merging offensive tspikes and choice specs into "Offensive" sounds like a good idea. I would just use the first description because its more neutral

Gliscor: Merging the stallbreaker and sd sets would be nice, maybe just renaming them "Specially Defensive" and using the description from the first set since its more detailed. If you do that then i would rename defensive utility to "Physically Defensive".

Keldeo: Can we just merge all these except scarf into one set called "Special Attacker"? It would be the first one just renamed, as the first one gives the most neutral description imo. Again, i would let scarf keep its own description because it details why a timid nature is best on scarf

Latios: Deleting cm sounds like a good idea to me since its almost exactly the same as special wallbreaker, just another merging thing really. Special wallbreaker has a more detailed description, so i think that should be the one that stays.

Manaphy: I would remove the tail glow + rain dance set because its literally the same as the spread for tail glow + 3 attacks. I would just delete the second one and rename the first one "Special Sweeper" or "Tail Glow"

Mew: I think its best to merge utility and stallbreaker set into something like "Utility" or "Specially Defensive". Tbh defog mew especially should be running enough speed for bish, 32 is simply outdated. The description from the stallbreaker set seems most suitable for mew imo so thats what id use if i was merging it.

Raikou: I would merge all the sets into one called "Special Attacker". I think the description from the AV set is best here. The CM set doesn't mention anything about the 4 HP EVs so im assuming theyre not significant.

Terrakion: SD and CB should probably be merged into a set called "Offensive". I would use the description from the CB set but without the line about the choice band.

Thundurus: I would merge np and prankster, probably just name them "Special Attacker". I would use the description from the prankster set.
 
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 210-247 (63.4 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 210-247 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

-1 0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 160-190 (48.3 - 57.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 0 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 160-190 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I'm not exactly seeing your defensive benchmarks here. Meanwhile, getting outsped by Mega Altaria is huge.
Um, Mega Loppuny get outspeed after 1DD and OHKO with bounce.

Lando-T takes a ton from waterfall so you don't need much prior damage to set up on it.

Mega Altaria is not even in OU and is very rare in tournaments nowadays.
 

bludz

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Seth those are pokemon which you referenced earlier on this page as reasons to run bulk. Generally if you want to advocate something, specific reasoning is required. "Bulk helps you set up" is too vague, calculations that correspond to actual scenarios which are likely to occur are what you need
 
So I'm removing

Support Mega Alt (can be merged with specially offense or some variant of DDD)
Pursuit Bish (literally ass without SD)
PHeal Breloom
NP + 2 Attacks Celebi (can be merged with BP set)
Belly Drum Chesnaught
Unaware Clefable
LO Clefable
Scarf Diggersby
(probably rename it to Band and rearrange the wording to fit band)
CB Dragonite (DD is just better)
Bulky Excadrill
Mixed Mega Garchomp
Physically Defensive Gastrodon
Hex Gar
Scarf Hydreigon
Offensive Infernape
(plain bad and defensive is what you should use IF you ever use it)
Specs Kyurem-B
Utility Mew
(usually defog but stallbreaker is usually better and utility is verrryy niche)
AV Raikou
CM Mega Sableye
Defog Mega Scizor
AV Slowking
Defensive Togekiss


i'm just going to leave this here for about an hour and whoever cares can explain why they think a set shouldn't drop or any other sets that should be dropped along with those listed above.

also i'm making hailfall's merges
 
So I'm removing

Support Mega Alt (can be merged with specially offense or some variant of DDD)
Pursuit Bish (literally ass without SD)
PHeal Breloom
NP + 2 Attacks Celebi
(can be merged with BP set)
Belly Drum Chesnaught
Unaware Clefable
LO Clefable
Scarf Diggersby
(probably rename it to Band and rearrange the wording to fit band)
CB Dragonite (DD is just better)
Bulky Excadrill
Mixed Mega Garchomp
Physically Defensive Gastrodon
Hex Gar
Scarf Hydreigon
Offensive Infernape
(plain bad and defensive is what you should use IF you ever use it)
Specs Kyurem-B
Utility Mew
(usually defog but stallbreaker is usually better and utility is verrryy niche)
AV Raikou
CM Mega Sableye
Defog Mega Scizor
AV Slowking
Defensive Togekiss


i'm just going to leave this here for about an hour and whoever cares can explain why they think a set shouldn't drop or any other sets that should be dropped along with those listed above.

also i'm making hailfall's merges
Can you explain why you're removing Scarf Hydreigon and Bulky Excadrill? The other stuff I don't care about but I think these sets are ok enough to keep around from experience.

Edit: What this loser said below me to and I think bludz should decide on HexGar cause I know he uses it a lot and kind of not too keen on throwing that out either.
 

bludz

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Does CB Nite even use a different spread than DD? o.o if not then who cares

Keep Unaware Clef imo just as a reference point. I don't think anyone has a good spread for HexGar tbh all the good ones I've seen do shit like tank Mega Venu Giga Drains and bs like that so they are outdated as hell, thats the main reason I'm fine with it being gone
 
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