-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers MKII (Read the OP First!) (Now with 100% more Rules!!!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
High speed, high power 'mons like Lopunny and Weavile are fantastic ways to give offensive teams trouble. The key is to focus on trumping offense's strength of high speed with even higher speed while exploiting their lack of a dedicated defensive backbone.
Off the top of my head, some other good offense breakers ('mons that excel vs. offense) besides Lop and Weav would be Alakazam-Mega, Talonflame (because of its strong priority), Bisharp, Sand Rush Excadrill, Azumarill (because virtually nothing on offense switches in well), Thundurus (because of its priority TWaves and generally unpredictable movesets), Diancie-Mega (similar thing to Azu), and Manectric-Mega.
what makes a "stall breaker?" I have seen that term used a lot but not sure what that exactly means. Is it essentially used to describe mons that hit really hard?
edit: meant wall breaker
edit: meant wall breaker
Last edited:
I've been out of the meta for a good 2 years. My last liked post I saw was in April of 2014 for reference and the last meta change I remember being part of was post Mega Lucario ban.
If someone would be willing to give me a good rundown of how the meta has shifted as far as archetypes go (are we still a HO meta or did we slow down) or any other general current meta tips that would be lovely. Thanks in advance.
If someone would be willing to give me a good rundown of how the meta has shifted as far as archetypes go (are we still a HO meta or did we slow down) or any other general current meta tips that would be lovely. Thanks in advance.
What kills does Focus Punch Breloom get over Force Palm?
A wall breaker (sometimes without the space) is a Pokémon that uses either boosting moves or Choice Band/Specs to pressure opposing teams; they usually do this best by coming in on passive Pokémon. A few examples of wallbreakers in ORAS OU might be Swords Dance Talonflame, Choice Specs Exploud, and Kyurem-B. Most wallbreakers have less speed than other offensive threats, making them good against stall and balance but less powerful against offense.
As of now the meta is more Balance/Bulky offensive. Pokemon that are starting to rise in usage are things like mega medicham, which right now kills everything. Some of the best pokemon are Clefable and Keldeo. You can see the usage stats of everything here, as well as the ORAS OU viability ranking here. I suggest looking at some World cup games as well, they should give you a general idea of what is being brought right now. You should also watch other tournament replays, it can give you a general view of what is popular right now. HO is not as prevalent as back then anymore I would say.
I have a team of -suicune(roar CM), charizard-x(DD), ferrothorn (spikes), hippowdon (mixed wall) and clefable (magic guard calm mind +heal bell)
I am looking for the best option, for hazard removal for the team as it stands above.
I am leaning towards zampdos and mew for their defog specially defensive support sets, which beat the likes of keldeo ect. the lati twins i have tried, but have been rather luck luster and i feel something with more bulk, like mew and zapdos would addmore, inspite of their greatter need for support themseles.
I am looking for the best option, for hazard removal for the team as it stands above.
I am leaning towards zampdos and mew for their defog specially defensive support sets, which beat the likes of keldeo ect. the lati twins i have tried, but have been rather luck luster and i feel something with more bulk, like mew and zapdos would addmore, inspite of their greatter need for support themseles.
LO Adamant Focus Punch puts Latios and Torn in range of Mach Punch after Rocks, whereas Force Palm relies on paralysis. Pretty sure you can destroy Ferrothorn and Skarm switchins way better too. I dont know any other calcs off hand
I started playing pokemon compeitive so little time and also am new here in the forum , and I do not know if this is the right place for the question that I do , I wonder if there is any topic here in the forum or any page on any site that I may know the pokemons combinations banned in Tier OU?
Example : Use the Durant with the ability to " Study " and the movement " entertainment " combined with Dugtrio with the ability "Arena Trap" this combination is banned in Tier OU?
Why I played against other players and they informed me that this combination was banned more did not find any information about it, if someone here can help me I thank you .
Example : Use the Durant with the ability to " Study " and the movement " entertainment " combined with Dugtrio with the ability "Arena Trap" this combination is banned in Tier OU?
Why I played against other players and they informed me that this combination was banned more did not find any information about it, if someone here can help me I thank you .
The entire OU banlist can be found here. Welcome to Smogon!
The Dugtrio+Truant Entrainment Durant strategy is gimmicky and wouldn't be successful against anyone who is reasonably good at this game. This is because Durant is extremely frail, meaning it has a hard time getting onto the field outside of after something has just fainted, and because there is a turn to switch out on the turn that you switch from Durant to Dugtrio, and it also doesn't account for the fact that even after 6 Hone Claws boosts Dugtrio's power is still very lacking in general, meaning that it often won't be able to clean up the entire opposing team. Usually you can achieve the goal of this with a more powerful Pokémon such as Landorus-T with a boosting move which allows for a very fast boost to it's stats (+2 in one turn), such as Swords Dance.
Muito obrigado Martin você foi de grande ajuda.
How is Thunder Wave balanced as a move, or rather paralysis as a status?
I genuinely don't understand how this move is considered competitive and I'd like a detailed explanation on how it's okay and not overpowered.
Yes, I understand competitive Pokemon is novel and not really meant to be taken too serious, yes I know luck is one of the most important things when it comes to winning, but Thunder Wave is honestly draining all the fun you could possibly have in this out of it.
I follow all the official tournaments and watch most replays and there's a staggering amount of games that are influenced extremely heavily by paralysis RNG, it makes the already best Pokemon in OU even more busted, it's stupidly well distributed, the status itself is tacked onto random electric moves which makes me terrified of ever switching my Latios in on a Thunderbolt because if I get parad I'm basically dead, it promotes degenerate strategies like flinching, plenty of very high end players I follow complain about it regulary and yet it's being spammed more and more on both the ladder and in competitive games, if someone uses twave in a game I'm watching and they get a few full paras I click X because that game is now garbage and no longer in any sense a good game.
Status in general is obscenely broken in this game series, it always has been, but with all the tiers seemingly wanting to ban silly complicated stuff like No Guard 100% Confusion moves I don't get how a move that can stop your Pokemon 8 turns in a row is ok.
So yeah some good player give me a detailed explanation on how Thunder Wave/Paralysis is a good and >fun< part of the metagame, and don't give me the simple ground/electric types/cleric answer.
Edit: I'm okay with the speed control aspect of paralysis.
I genuinely don't understand how this move is considered competitive and I'd like a detailed explanation on how it's okay and not overpowered.
Yes, I understand competitive Pokemon is novel and not really meant to be taken too serious, yes I know luck is one of the most important things when it comes to winning, but Thunder Wave is honestly draining all the fun you could possibly have in this out of it.
I follow all the official tournaments and watch most replays and there's a staggering amount of games that are influenced extremely heavily by paralysis RNG, it makes the already best Pokemon in OU even more busted, it's stupidly well distributed, the status itself is tacked onto random electric moves which makes me terrified of ever switching my Latios in on a Thunderbolt because if I get parad I'm basically dead, it promotes degenerate strategies like flinching, plenty of very high end players I follow complain about it regulary and yet it's being spammed more and more on both the ladder and in competitive games, if someone uses twave in a game I'm watching and they get a few full paras I click X because that game is now garbage and no longer in any sense a good game.
Status in general is obscenely broken in this game series, it always has been, but with all the tiers seemingly wanting to ban silly complicated stuff like No Guard 100% Confusion moves I don't get how a move that can stop your Pokemon 8 turns in a row is ok.
So yeah some good player give me a detailed explanation on how Thunder Wave/Paralysis is a good and >fun< part of the metagame, and don't give me the simple ground/electric types/cleric answer.
Edit: I'm okay with the speed control aspect of paralysis.
Last edited:
p2
Banned deucer.
i believe it's because chaos refuses to ban scald, thunder wave and similar moves along that line.
plus if you ban thunder wave you need to set a precedent for banning x, y, and z because similar complaints can be brought up. the only problem with banning thunder wave is that it has actual legitimate non-cheese usage like on thundurus or klefki for speed control, meanwhile all swagger was used for was cheesing and bullshitting your opponents.
that's my opinion on it anyway.
plus if you ban thunder wave you need to set a precedent for banning x, y, and z because similar complaints can be brought up. the only problem with banning thunder wave is that it has actual legitimate non-cheese usage like on thundurus or klefki for speed control, meanwhile all swagger was used for was cheesing and bullshitting your opponents.
that's my opinion on it anyway.
There's nothing fun about Thunder Wave and it's pretty bullshit on things like Clefable who can use it to cheeese past their answers such as Heatran and Talonflame, but providing speed control is a very important part of building for a lot of teams and it is also nice for playing around things like Bisharp in the case of it's faster users such as Thundurus and Serp (Glare). This makes it healthy and it is just a generally really nice tool for all archetypes as speed control is basically a necessity at this point and being able to forgo a scarfer without giving Bisharp free boosts for speed control is just really useful and competitive in it's that respect.
So this is getting really close a suspect test argument, which doesn't really belong here, but it sounds like you what you want goes beyond suspect, but rather a complete overhaul of mechanics to eliminate hax entirely. I'm sorry if you think tradition is a stupid argument, but at the end of the day, people come here to play a simulation of cartridge play, and there is a huge difference between banning mons and moves and trying to alter the mechanics of the game entirely to match the tastes of people tired of hax. If you want a game with near-0% hax, you have 3 options:
- See if you can't find the pet mod that was running around in the Other Metagames section that intended to eliminate hax
- Create your own simulator and do it yourself
- Find a competitive game that doesn't revolve around luck-based mechanics like Chess or fighting games
I have never heard of the team you are alluding to
It's bare hyper offense made by xtrashine. Here's an importable:
Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Explosion
Dragonite @ Weakness Policy OR Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw if WP / Outrage if Lum
- Earthquake
- ExtremeSpeed
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- U-turn
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Fire Blast
- Explosion
Dragonite @ Weakness Policy OR Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw if WP / Outrage if Lum
- Earthquake
- ExtremeSpeed
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Close Combat
- Quick Attack
Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- U-turn
I've seen someone called empoleonlove who spammed this team on the ladder. He seems to have like 30 games a day.
Hey I been wondering lately since the ORAS is going to come to an end on November 18. Why don't we have a thread to predict/have a discussion what the new mons are going to be like? Something like the create-a-mon project but with official artwork and official abilities and types. Or Am I just blind?