Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[Srn]

aight i have a nom to make that's a little off the beaten path:
Seismitoad for B-

So basically i've been messing around with this fukr on a balanced team and the amount of bases it covers is quite astounding. As a water/ground, it stops electrics cleanly in their tracks, and with water absorb itself, you have on mon being immune to two of the most effective types in the tier.
Pair this with good physical bulk, the ability to set rocks, and decent offensive presence, and this guy becomes a great check to loads of stuff.

While gastrodon offers some good competition vs seismitoad, i think the player has to decide whether he wants rocks to be set or if he wants reliable recovery. tbh i think gastro is better in all other aspects but the amount of utility seismitoad offers is way too good for C+. Settin rocks simply makes teambuilding a lot easier.

To put this in perspective:
as a water/ground with water absorb, its basically checking keldeo, raikou, thundurus, mega manectric, excadrill, lando-t, mmeta (w/out gknot), tyranitar, char-x, terrakion, mega aerodactyl, talonflame, Heatran, crocune/megabro, bisharp, jirachi, and victini.

Now before i see calcs of banded terrakion 2hko'ing or +2 earth plate adamant Lando-t OHKO'ing this poor frog, keep in mind i said CHECKS. that's right fucking CHECKS. Not counters, and quite frankly no where close. But lets be real for one mon to even come close to checking all of those relevant mons AND set rocks is quite ridiculous.

It's a light check, but play it well, keep it alive, and it'll usually get the job done; if you're tryna build around a restrictive core then this guy could really be a cool little band-aid.

The set i use is pretty straightforward, i'll put it here for reference:

SHETSH

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

TL; DR defensive seismitoad sets check a landfill of common mons and sets rocks fairly well, move it up.
did I do a good job of not overhyping AM-sama?

 

[Yugi]

Well i agree with the raise but not so much with the checks,tbh these days i see ice beam crocune so they dont get fucked up by any waterabsorb pokemon,defiant SD sucker punch STAB does pack a punch,even knock off in the range of having an item has 81.3% chance to OHKO it.Thats alot and considering Seismitoads defenses,105/75 tbh,isnt that bad.

 

[Flygonial]

Well i agree with the raise but not so much with the checks,tbh these days i see ice beam crocune so they dont get fucked up by any waterabsorb pokemon,defiant SD sucker punch STAB does pack a punch,even knock off in the range of having an item has 81.3% chance to OHKO it.Thats alot and considering Seismitoads defenses,105/75 tbh,isnt that bad.

While offensive sets were viable back in the day, Crocune has historically always gotten past Water Absorb pokemon by Pressure stalling.

 

[Flamer]

As an update on Infernape, I recently began trying an SD set and I must say, it works very well against balanced and stally teams that lack very fast mons (Unless you run mach punch, which helps against speedy teams and can act as an emergency bisharp stop). It also has several easy setup opportunities and OHKOs at +2 a large amount of defensive mons who would normally be expected to beat infernape while also dealing with all the things regular Infernape beats. Its also a great counter to CM Sableye, who cant do anything back while getting 2hkoed in return.

Hide

Rotom-W
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 308-364 (101.6 - 120.1%)

Mega Altaria
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Gunk Shot vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Mega Altaria: 268-317 (87.2 - 103.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria: 393-463 (111 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Clefable
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 309-367 (78.4 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

M-Sableye
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 203-239 (66.7 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dont have any high level replays atm but if I find any in the next few days Ill edit them in. What I do have is this which, while not an amazing battle at all, shows how easily nape can plough through slower teams with it's decent power and good coverage. Also note the amazing conversation my opponent and I had.

 

[SketchUp]

Flamer If you go fully offensive, why not give Infernape Flare Blitz over Fire Punch? It helps getting a few extra OHKOs over 2HKOs and even though the recoil will be pretty big with LO, you still are better off running Flare Blitz because of the extra KOs it gives.

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 229-273 (76 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 307-361 (101.9 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 269-317 (66.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 356-421 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 276-328 (76.8 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 367-432 (102.2 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 203-239 (66.7 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 269-317 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 231-274 (68.9 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 309-367 (92.2 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 281-331 (73.3 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 374-442 (97.6 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

 

[Flamer]

Flamer If you go fully offensive, why not give Infernape Flare Blitz over Fire Punch? It helps getting a few extra OHKOs over 2HKOs and even though the recoil will be pretty big with LO, you still are better off running Flare Blitz because of the extra KOs it gives.

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 229-273 (76 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 307-361 (101.9 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 269-317 (66.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 356-421 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 276-328 (76.8 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 367-432 (102.2 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 203-239 (66.7 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 269-317 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 231-274 (68.9 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 309-367 (92.2 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 281-331 (73.3 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 176+ Def Zapdos: 374-442 (97.6 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Flare blitz is certainly a viable option, on the particular team I was using the recoil was killing nape way too fast. I think Albacore ran a set with Flare Blitz so I guess he can give his two cents on the matter.

 

[Anduril]

aight i have a nom to make that's a little off the beaten path:
Seismitoad for B-

So basically i've been messing around with this fukr on a balanced team and the amount of bases it covers is quite astounding. As a water/ground, it stops electrics cleanly in their tracks, and with water absorb itself, you have on mon being immune to two of the most effective types in the tier.
Pair this with good physical bulk, the ability to set rocks, and decent offensive presence, and this guy becomes a great check to loads of stuff.

While gastrodon offers some good competition vs seismitoad, i think the player has to decide whether he wants rocks to be set or if he wants reliable recovery. tbh i think gastro is better in all other aspects but the amount of utility seismitoad offers is way too good for C+. Settin rocks simply makes teambuilding a lot easier.

To put this in perspective:
as a water/ground with water absorb, its basically checking keldeo, raikou, thundurus, mega manectric, excadrill, lando-t, mmeta (w/out gknot), tyranitar, char-x, terrakion, mega aerodactyl, talonflame, Heatran, crocune/megabro, bisharp, jirachi, and victini.

Now before i see calcs of banded terrakion 2hko'ing or +2 earth plate adamant Lando-t OHKO'ing this poor frog, keep in mind i said CHECKS. that's right fucking CHECKS. Not counters, and quite frankly no where close. But lets be real for one mon to even come close to checking all of those relevant mons AND set rocks is quite ridiculous.

It's a light check, but play it well, keep it alive, and it'll usually get the job done; if you're tryna build around a restrictive core then this guy could really be a cool little band-aid.

The set i use is pretty straightforward, i'll put it here for reference:

SHETSH

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

TL; DR defensive seismitoad sets check a landfill of common mons and sets rocks fairly well, move it up.
did I do a good job of not overhyping AM-sama?

I like Seimitoad. I have used it extensively, so I know what I'm talking about. It's a pretty cool mon. It can stop Rotom-W and Landorus-T damn near perfectly, as well as Keldeo. However, the lack of reliable recovery really hinders it. Water Absorb is nice, but Keldeo, Azumarill, Landorus-T can all wear down Seismitoad fairly quickly. Sure it can set up SR pretty well, but things can just blow by it by simple pressure alone. Seismitoad is pretty good, but it's tendency to get worn down as well as be setup bait leads me to say it should stay C+

 

[Magis4Life]

I like Seimitoad. I have used it extensively, so I know what I'm talking about. It's a pretty cool mon. It can stop Rotom-W and Landorus-T damn near perfectly, as well as Keldeo. However, the lack of reliable recovery really hinders it. Water Absorb is nice, but Keldeo, Azumarill, Landorus-T can all wear down Seismitoad fairly quickly. Sure it can set up SR pretty well, but things can just blow by it by simple pressure alone. Seismitoad is pretty good, but it's tendency to get worn down as well as be setup bait leads me to say it should stay C+

Yeah, Seismitoad compared to gastrodon is more easily worn down with lack of reliable recovery but though gastrodon better checks some of the treats in the metagame due to this feat, I find Seismitoad to offer more in overall utility in that I can role compress a stealth rock setter and a check to the likes of thundy, lando-t, excadrill, soft check to keldeo, and other threats in a metagame where two of the best offensive typings in water and electric are put in check. I find toad's niche that on top of good combination of good defensive typing, useful ability that allows it to stop some top threats, the added utility it brings as a sr setter that imo distinguishes itself from gastro due to its more added utility besides checking threats that can be useful to teambuilds to be worthy of B-.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Ok I'm going to make a psuedo-nom (more of a discussion starter than anything) on Weezing going Unranked-->D/C-: Weezing is bulky on the physical side (but we all knew that now didn't we?) and it does check/switch in on a number of S/A ranked Pokémon such as Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Landorus-T, Mega Scizor, non-Psychic Celebi, Mega Lopunny, Mamoswine, non-Psycic Landorus-I, Mega Venusaur, regular Gyarados, unboosted Mega Gyarados, Mega Aerodactyl, Bisharp, Talonflame before SD... you're getting the picture here. Add to this that a large number of Pokémon which can come in and threaten it out in theory - namely Mega Metagross - are discouraged by its access to Will-O-Wisp, making it even more potent as a physical wall. It is generally best on defensively-inclined teams, and it isn't very splashable, which is why I am not nomming it any higher. If you have anything to go against this, feel free to go ahead and say it.

I kinda have to disagree with this actually. Weezing actually was ranked back in XY before mega mawile got banned there's basically no point in really using it over other physical walls. Also rotom-w handles most of those afformentioned things bar mega venusaur,mega altaria,celebi,and mammoswine pretty well as most belly drum azu's don't run max speed jolly and i guess it can handle bish better. Here is something alexwolf said:

Also, i removed Weezing because it was viable only because of Mega Mawile.

 

[Freddy F1shf1nger]

Might be a bit off topic of what is being discussed since I haven't read the entire thread.
But just wanted to see what people thought of Snorlax for the OU tier.
Imo Snorlax can be a problem against the bulkier half of the current meta and can begin to set up with access to curse as well as belly drum.
At the risk of linking a video and people getting all angry about it this video does aid my point.

Not saying that Snorlax should be high on the viability thread by any means since it does have obvious flaws but to not see it considered at all currently confuses me.

 

[Darth Darkrai]

Might be a bit off topic of what is being discussed since I haven't read the entire thread.
But just wanted to see what people thought of Snorlax for the OU tier.
Imo Snorlax can be a problem against the bulkier half of the current meta and can begin to set up with access to curse as well as belly drum.
At the risk of linking a video and people getting all angry about it this video does aid my point.

Not saying that Snorlax should be high on the viability thread by any means since it does have obvious flaws but to not see it considered at all currently confuses me.

Yeah, I'm not sure that video's a good demonstration. Your opponent was using quite a few Pokemon that are either unviable or barely viable in OU. Your opponent's team composition didn't make a lot of sense in many ways actually. It was seriously lacking in synergy, and I didn't see any type of hazard setters on that team (except maybe Galvantula for Sticky Web, which pretty much says), and while teams can be run without hazard support, that specific team is one of the kinds that definitely would have benefited from it in general. Not necessarily in your case, since you apparently were using a team of only one Snorlax. Which is not particularly good either, because it doesn't do much to show how Snorlax would function on actual teams. You would not have gotten that far against the vast majority of teams in OU these days, because A) most offensive teams and many balanced teams are gonna have a Fighting type like Keldeo or Mega Lopunny on hand, who could have taken Snorlax out with very little resistance; B) most offensive OU teams will actually be carrying strong special attackers, so if for some odd reason they actually let you get set up that far, they'd have just switched over to one of them rather than spamming physical attacks on you to do shit to Snorlax while you grind to +6; and C) considering that Snorlax's most (in)famous set is a RestTalk set, most OU players would probably have enough sense not to waste a turn using a status move that's gonna go away in a turn or two anyway. Plus, if he'd had a Ghost on hand, you would've been fucked.

Sorry, but this video proves jack shit. Now, it's possible that Snorlax does have some viability in OU, I'm not prepared to completely rule that out. But the little evidence you've offered doesn't really amount to anything. If you really think Snorlax should go to D rank, provide some real evidence. Either post some quality replays of higher ladder matches against more competent teams, or make a more detailed post explaining what niche(s) in OU you think it fills that it does well enough to warrant it being ranked. Do that, and we might be able to have a real discussion about it.

 

[Freddy F1shf1nger]

Yeah, I'm not sure that video's a good demonstration. Your opponent was using quite a few Pokemon that are either unviable or barely viable in OU. Your opponent's team composition didn't make a lot of sense in many ways actually. It was seriously lacking in synergy, and I didn't see any type of hazard setters on that team (except maybe Galvantula for Sticky Web, which pretty much says), and while teams can be run without hazard support, that specific team is one of the kinds that definitely would have benefited from it in general. Not necessarily in your case, since you apparently were using a team of only one Snorlax. Which is not particularly good either, because it doesn't do much to show how Snorlax would function on actual teams. You would not have gotten that far against the vast majority of teams in OU these days, because A) most offensive teams and many balanced teams are gonna have a Fighting type like Keldeo or Mega Lopunny on hand, who could have taken Snorlax out with very little resistance; B) most offensive OU teams will actually be carrying strong special attackers, so if for some odd reason they actually let you get set up that far, they'd have just switched over to one of them rather than spamming physical attacks on you to do shit to Snorlax while you grind to +6; and C) considering that Snorlax's most (in)famous set is a RestTalk set, most OU players would probably have enough sense not to waste a turn using a status move that's gonna go away in a turn or two anyway. Plus, if he'd had a Ghost on hand, you would've been fucked.

Sorry, but this video proves jack shit. Now, it's possible that Snorlax does have some viability in OU, I'm not prepared to completely rule that out. But the little evidence you've offered doesn't really amount to anything. If you really think Snorlax should go to D rank, provide some real evidence. Either post some quality replays of higher ladder matches against more competent teams, or make a more detailed post explaining what niche(s) in OU you think it fills that it does well enough to warrant it being ranked. Do that, and we might be able to have a real discussion about it.

I do agree with some of your points. But to say that this proved jack shit is unreasonable in my opinion. I fully accept that my opponent was perhaps not the best skilled player that there is on the ladder and yes I also accept that if my opponent has a ghost type on hand I wouldn't be able to touch them but I still believe that I have some merit in discussing snorlax's usefulness.
Obviously using snorlax against a fighting type would be suicide so you wouldn't dream of setting up curselax in those scenarios. But this does demonstrate how snorlax can be used as a late game setup sweeper. My point is that the curselax set functions similarly to the crocune set. There are a variety of pokemon which you could set up against in the current metagame being:
Heatran, Clefable, Hippowdon, Celebi, Garchomp, Manectric-Mega, Slowbro, Rotom-w, Venusaur-Mega, Raikou, Suicune, Chansey, Magnezone, Tentacruel.

Now I accept that not necessarily all of these pokemon are the most commonly used within the tier. But that being said if you intend to use curselax as a late game sweeper and take out the opposing ghost types as well as fighting types it can be a reliable late game cleaner.
As I said previously I doubt snorlax will be ranked highly within the viability thread seeing as though this set in particular can be beaten but surely adding Snorlax into the lower C tier or D rank isn't unjustified.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Heatran has Taunt, which stops Snorlax. Clefable could be Unaware, which beats Snorlax. Hippowdon has Whirlwind. Celebi has Baton Pass to switch out into a Ghost-type/Fighting-type. Garchomp has Dragon Tail (talking about bulky chomp). Mega Manectric can pivot out. Slowbro is kinda passive anyway, Rotom-W has Volt Switch, Venusaur is uncommon, Raikou can pivot out, Suicune CMs in Snorlax's face, Chansey is passive anyway, Magnezone is uncommon, Tentacruel is uncommon too.

 

[Karxrida]

I can see Snorlax being ranked, but only for the AV set since it's able to switch into Gengar and Pursuit trap it while also eating up hits from Zard Y. Curselax and Belly Drum Lad have way too many issues to function consistently, at least without immense support. If I find time I'll test it out against Recreant and let you guys know if it's worth a damn.

 

[Freddy F1shf1nger]

Heatran has Taunt, which stops Snorlax. Clefable could be Unaware, which beats Snorlax. Hippowdon has Whirlwind. Celebi has Baton Pass to switch out into a Ghost-type/Fighting-type. Garchomp has Dragon Tail (talking about bulky chomp). Mega Manectric can pivot out. Slowbro is kinda passive anyway, Rotom-W has Volt Switch, Venusaur is uncommon, Raikou can pivot out, Suicune CMs in Snorlax's face, Chansey is passive anyway, Magnezone is uncommon, Tentacruel is uncommon too.

Not all heatrans run taunt, not all clefables are unaware, not all chomps carry dtail, rotom-w will opt to will-o-wisp prior to pivoting out allowing you to begin boosting, snolax curse + rest-talk beats suicune CM one vs one. Again, I understand that they could have these but at the same time
dtail chomp is the uncommon chomp set
unaware clefable is also the lesser common one
chansey may also stay in attempting for the slow KO with seismic toss or inflicting status
* Again, I like to reiterrate for those who may have missed the last couple messages I'm not saying Lax is top tier stuff but a low C ranking or D is justified I reckon.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Half of Heatran's run Taunt js. Yes, that's why I said *could*. Context is key m8. Garchomp's best set runs Dragon Tail, idk what you're talking about. Rotom-W cripples Snorlax initially with WoW, meaning it needs to waste a few turns asleep, allowing for easy setup.

 

[Tramuntana]

it depends on you point of view DarkNostalgia. Personally i find defensive garchomp a horrible set. It wastes too much potential to set up rocks and check some mons the majority of which the scarf chomp set also can check or revenge kill

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Well, we'll agree to disagree then. Defensive chomp is a great check to many physical attackers in the tier, such as Mega Metagross, Talonflame, and Mega Lopunny, because all contact moves take 30% away from the user. It's the reason why people (and me included) were pushing it to A+ rank.

 

[Freddy F1shf1nger]

Half of Heatran's run Taunt js. Yes, that's why I said *could*. Context is key m8. Garchomp's best set runs Dragon Tail, idk what you're talking about. Rotom-W cripples Snorlax initially with WoW, meaning it needs to waste a few turns asleep, allowing for easy setup.

Cool, I'm happy to accept that the better Heatrans run taunt, I made the assumption that you meant all. I am not sure with the dragon tail garchomp though. While it may be the "better" if not best set that Garchomp has, I am unfamiliar with it since I normally play garchomp as an offensive pokemon with a choice scarf or with an offensive SR build. As such I have no idea how popular this set is. In regards to your rotom argument I completely understand that will-o cripples physical pokemon but I don't intend on using an offensive move on snorlax until I have at least +4 because snorlax wants as many boosts to its defences as it can get. Meaning that I would boost even after the initial will-o then finally rest once I wanted to attack. Hence why I believe that you could set up on rotom-w.

I understand that a quality opposition player could shut down lax with taunt or encore, but this doesn't make snorlax unplayable. Since not all teams run encore and or taunt.
While I know that your argument doesn't directly head into the taunt or encore path I thought that I should point that out regardless. I also realise that my intention of getting to such a large degree of boosts may be deemed as excessive but I personally have never had an issue while using this set. Since my aim with this particular set is to use snorlax as a late game sweeper any matches that I lost were not due to snorlax letting the team down.

 

[Flygonial]

it depends on you point of view DarkNostalgia. Personally i find defensive garchomp a horrible set. It wastes too much potential to set up rocks and check some mons the majority of which the scarf chomp set also can check or revenge kill

Just like DarkNostalgia said, Tank 'Chomp is a solid set that is almost the entire reason for people advocating its rise, the sole reason for it being the most used pokemon on higher ladder. It is anything but a waste of Garchomp's potential, considering how much chip damage it can do, potentially absorb status with Rest, do massive chip damage with Endure, wear down opponents with Toxic, phaze threatening snowball pokemon such as Mega Sableye and Mega Slowbro. In fact, I might as well as say Scarfed Garchomp is almost non-existent for a reason - it's a huge momentum sink that cannot do anything meaningful against bulkier teams.

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Scarf Chomp isn't great lol.
But I really don't want to get into an argument or whatever, since I'm tired and I don't want to offend anyone. Just want to say Taunt is really common, esp in today's metagame. Not only does it stallbreak, it also shuts down a lot of Pokemon such as Keldeo and Clefable.

Snorlax requires too much support to be viable tbh. Curse+Rest+Talk+Normal STAB = eaten alive by ghosts, eaten alive by fighting-types, eaten alive by stallbreakers (such as alakazam and gliscor), eaten alive by strong special attackers, not to mention the momentum loss when using rest/sleep talk.

 

[Freddy F1shf1nger]

Fair, can't blame you for feeling that way.
Like I said it's not brilliant, but I thought it was worth a degree of consideration.

 

[Talpr0ne]

If Snorlax were to be ranked it would probably be for the merits of an AV set, which is a pretty reliable pursuit trapper on paper.

 

[firehusky]

AV Snorlax also checks a lot of special attackers such as gengar and zard y. I have no comment on his ranking but just pointing out some of the uses it has besides pursuit trapping.

 

[AM]

Snorlax doesn't need to be ranked. It would be like E rank realistically anyways considering everything it can and can't do.