Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

[North Gate]

Gardevoir from Unranked to D.
Cuz she's my wife


I'd like to support Vanilla Gardevoirs rise up to D, with so many damn support options it can be an aid to Hyper Offense, or even balance. We all know this, Status can cripple a game, make your wincon useless as fuck, or hell, even make it impossible for it to do jack shit for damage. Healing Wish, coming off of Scarf speed is nice, even if the speed tier is slightly meh. The thing here is, you can also use Healing Wish to your advantage in Hyper Offense by using it as a one turn spinblock or defog blocker. Keeping up hazards, and maintaining momentum is key in Hyper Offense, and while Garde isn't the greatest for it, it does have a pretty spammable 95 BP move that can do decent damage and reduce SpAtt. I also will mention that Healing Wish can net some momentum in your favor by acting as a psuedo Volt Switch/U-Turn/Baton Pass and allowing you to switch in a suitable matchup, even if it was critically weakened by something else or hazards bring it down to a OHKO range on the opposing Pokemon. It also has access to things like WoW, Trick to cripple common wall switch ins, and hell, you could pull some of that Gothitelle bullshit with the Trick CM thing I've seen a few times. I've never actually bothered to use vanilla Gardevoir in OU, but I will attest to its usefulness from a standpoint of me seeing it a lot, and justly knowing much about the Hyper Offense playstyle as of now. I will also mention Memento, as that ALSO grabs momentum and allows you to start a good set up without being threatened, which can lead to your win. Destiny Bond is OK, but on a Scarf set it seems kinda iffy, since if you survive a hit, which you shouldn't, but there's the chance, they know you're locked into it and you're set up fodder. Same with WoW. Also not to mention if they like, miss or something. Memento and Healing Wish are 1-turn momentum grabbers, albeit at the sacrifice of a team member, but with the revival, or the sweep, of another member. Plus Trace is a thing (to stop sand and rain offense and steal some of dat yung Multiscale), and Syncronize can actually cripple walls who go for a safe Toxic or something.

Edit (2): I will mention that it is REALLY hard to find a place for this gal on teams, hence why it's being nominated for D and super niche, the support it gives is almost unmatched, but the stats, and the fact that you're wasting a scarfer, ((and double scarf isn't good on HO teams, which is what you should see this thing on)) because it makes you have restrictions, and it's hard to keep up momentum when you're locked into a move. While it can revenge, common scarfers outspeed it and that's bad since scarf (on opposing mons) is something that HO hates, hence why one scarfer (to beat other scarfers) and priority is usually standard/common on HO teams. The support it gives is unrivaled, but good luck trying to just have this thing on your team, it's nowhere near slappable as say, Azelf or Bisharp.

 

[Mr. Hothead]

The problem with Hippo is its bad case of 4MSS. Slack Off and Earthquake are mandatory on every set, so depending on its other two moves it's going to be a huge sitting duck against something.
I think we can agree that besides the two move I mentioned, its 4 most useful ones are Toxic, Roar, Stealth Rock and Stone Edge.
It *needs* Stone Edge to be able to do anything against Taunt Talonflame, Gyarados and Air Balloon Heatran/Excadrill, it *needs* Stealth Rock so Skarmory is forced to Defog rather than use Hippo as Spikes bait, it *needs* Toxic to be able to do anything against Slowbro, it *needs* Roar to phaze Clefable. And let's not even get started on common threats such as Mega Sableye and Gliscor who just use Hippo as their bitch regardless.
Hippo is just too passive against several common offensive and defensive threats, which prevents it from being A+ material.

Hippo doesn't have 4MSS i dont know what you're talking about. All it needs is EdgeQuake and Rocks+recovery.

Hippo shouldnt be staying into skarm lol
Hippo shouldnt be staying into slowbro either

Why with all the specific things? Also, Magic Guard Clefable is still kinda common, and although roar is nice, id rather have the ability to actually check my checks with EQ and Stone edge.

Sableye lost a lot of usage too... and again who the fuck is staying into MSab and Scor with hippo lol.

| 40 | Sableye | 6.23982% | 170099 | 7.228% | 142779 | 7.725% |
| 33 | Gliscor | 7.36460% | 218224 | 9.274% | 172141 | 9.314% |

Just to make your passive argument fall flat on its ass, this guy isn't passive. sure it cant do anything to MSab and Gliscor, but what do you expect in a rocks setter? It basically covers half the meta in addition to walling it, and it has 5 other team members to help it.

Just because Lando T doesnt really do shit to said threats, its bad? No. Hippo is a supportive threat, able to give out sand and rocks in addition to walling threats for the team. Honestly, i cant see why its not in A+. Just because "its passive to like 4 threats" isnt really keeping it from A+. I stated why i wanted in in A+ in my argument, so im not gonna repeat that.

 

[BlueLobster]

Hippo doesn't have 4MSS i dont know what you're talking about. All it needs is EdgeQuake and Rocks+recovery.

Hippo shouldnt be staying into skarm lol
Hippo shouldnt be staying into slowbro either

Why with all the specific things? Also, Magic Guard Clefable is still kinda common, and although roar is nice, id rather have the ability to actually check my checks with EQ and Stone edge.

Sableye lost a lot of usage too... and again who the fuck is staying into MSab and Scor with hippo lol.

| 40 | Sableye | 6.23982% | 170099 | 7.228% | 142779 | 7.725% |
| 33 | Gliscor | 7.36460% | 218224 | 9.274% | 172141 | 9.314% |

Just to make your passive argument fall flat on its ass, this guy isn't passive. sure it cant do anything to MSab and Gliscor, but what do you expect in a rocks setter? It basically covers half the meta in addition to walling it, and it has 5 other team members to help it.

Just because Lando T doesnt really do shit to said threats, its bad? No. Hippo is a supportive threat, able to give out sand and rocks in addition to walling threats for the team. Honestly, i cant see why its not in A+. Just because "its passive to like 4 threats" isnt really keeping it from A+. I stated why i wanted in in A+ in my argument, so im not gonna repeat that.

Agreeing with most of what you say, and I agree hippo should rise, but there are a few points that are wrong/you missed:

Hippo does have slight 4MSS, it has to choose between toxic, roar and SR when it ideally wants at least 2 of them in one set. You can drop stone edge for an extra slot but then you can't check T-Flame as well (you can phaze non taunt variants, but you want to slay it).
Also, we base ranks on it's effeciveness in the meta. While it has checks and can be forced out, higher rank stuff should be forced out as little as possible. Being forced out against Skarm, Gliscor, MSab, Clefable etc can't just be dismissed with "just switch out lol", as you could say that *insert unviable poke here* can just switch out of it's plethora of checks that make it unviable, doesn't mean it doesn't just waste a teamslot. Of course hippo doesn't waste a teamslot and is a fab wall, but it does struggle V stall, and you can't dismiss that by saying switch, as you might not have a poke left that can switch in.

 

[p2]

Can someone tell me why Goodra is C rank? I've never seen this thing do anything good, ever. Every team I've seen it on, it has been complete dead weight. It's not a very good special wall considering it has no recovery and most Special attackers have a way to break through it anyway, ie Psyshock + Sacred Sword. It's offenses aren't the greatest in the world, considering it can't even boost them either and stuff like Clefable just uses it as setup bait. Sure it has good coverage which lets it beat checks, but it's so slow that most of its checks can beat it before Goodra does anything. And Lati@s mostly fulfill offensive and defense sets better anyway, with Latias having better support moves + recovery and Latios being able to nuke everything with Draco Meteor / Psyshock + having a higher speed/spatk.

 

[AllAttack]

OK here we go. Firstly, I'm gonna make a nom

Kyurem-B from A- to A

There are a variety of reasons why I'm nomming this. Firstly, the ice-type is fantastic offensively and Kyurem-B is a good ice type. It has great bulk, which is slightly hindered by Stealth Rock, and weaknesses to 5 moderately common types, but nevertheless 125 / 100 / 90 bulk is still excellent. Despite having a mediocre speed stat of 95, it has amazing 170 / 120 offenses, which it can put to good use with a nice movepool. Kyurem-B can run a multitude of sets, which makes it less predictable, and I personally think the Life Orb set is incredible. Having the great offensive stats and a good movepool containing Ice Beam, Earth Power and Fusion Bolt, it can beat many balanced cores. Furthermore, its ability Teravolt allows Kyu-B to beat defensive beasts in OU such as Mega Venusaur and Rotom-W. Access to Roost increases its longevity by quite a bit, and it can also nuke things with Outrage. Because it has an expansive movepool, it can stallbreak quite effectively utilizing its 125 HP stat to create subs, and heal off damage with Roost. I think that it is amazing at helping mons like Landorus-Incarnate and Mega-Scizor clean, due to its amazing balance breaking potential. Kyu-B can opt for lures such as Iron Head or HP Fire to weaken down mons or kill them such as Ferro, Clefable and Mega Scizor.

On other notes:

Mega Medicham from C+ to B-/B

I agree with this because Medicham has nice priority in Fake Out (and Bullet Punch) and amazing wallbreaking power, which means very little can switch into it. Hitting 328 speed is a decent speed tier too (and great for a wallbreaker), yet it still has pretty bad bulk. In addition, it can 2HKO/OHKO the whole tier bar Mega Sableye and Cresselia.

Starmie from A to A+

I'm on the fence with this, because like mentioned before, Starmie has a case of 4MSS and other problems. On the offensive set, it can't actually do too much damage without Analytic boosts, and a lot of the time, it is spinning on a switch. For the bulkier set, it can't actually take much, and it usually has to pick between beating mons like Keldeo, and not being pursuit trapped by things like Bish. However, Starmie has great speed, and the amazing Rapid Spin, which makes it the prime hazard controller on offense, and it checks threats such as Keldeo and Mega Metagross. I would probably lean more to it staying A, as I feel it doesn't really have the consistency or quality compared to other A+ mons

 

[Vert]

n_n

these rankings look perfectly fine at the moment, and should be polished up after this update, so i can see why this thread's amount of posts per day have been decreasing, but there is one 'mon i believe that should find its place in b rank and that's zapdos. at the moment, togekiss and specially defensive talonflame are pretty much the new / increased trends in higher play usage and zapdos has become more popular as a result. being able to force out talonflame and togekiss is a huge thing considering they are annoying and do what i like to call "cripple-repeat" process which makes them so valuable on balanced teams. being able to force these threats out is great. zapdos is also a defog user that beats bisharp which is cool since all you have to do is run a little speed and 68 special attack evs and it can't switch in safely. mega scizor is popular af, so zapdos appreciates being able to wall the crap out of it and destroy it. zapdos also manages to be unusually fast for a wall allowing it to roost and switch-in without taking 2 hits most of the time, and it isn't passive at all. specially defensive sets can check landorus-i if weakened to a 2/3hko heat wave range and counter tornadus-t and hard checks serperior. physically defensive zapdos is also a safety check to mega metagross when using a physically defensive set and even excadrill if needed by tanking rock slide and retaliating with heat wave. going back to the new trends, these are just favoring zapdos like all the water-types that rose in usage such as suicune, slowking, empoleon, gyarados, manaphy, and starmie. balanced teams can also run volt switch too allow it keep momentum, but that forfeits the ability to beat talonflame and togekiss. finally, it brings a unique set of resistances to ground-, flying-, grass-, and fighting-types while easily breaking past bulky waters which helps teambuilding

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Can someone tell me why Goodra is C rank? I've never seen this thing do anything good, ever. Every team I've seen it on, it has been complete dead weight. It's not a very good special wall considering it has no recovery and most Special attackers have a way to break through it anyway, ie Psyshock + Sacred Sword. It's offenses aren't the greatest in the world, considering it can't even boost them either and stuff like Clefable just uses it as setup bait. Sure it has good coverage which lets it beat checks, but it's so slow that most of its checks can beat it before Goodra does anything. And Lati@s mostly fulfill offensive and defense sets better anyway, with Latias having better support moves + recovery and Latios being able to nuke everything with Draco Meteor / Psyshock + having a higher speed/spatk.

Goodra is C rank because it's a good pivot being able to switch into many special attackers that are tough to wall such as life orb gengar and unlike counters to it like chansey goodra has a fighting chance vs it and it has solid coverage options that are tailored to you're teams needs,plus it has sap sipper to stop serperior from spamming leaf storm. Also why are you comparing it to the Lati twins when goodra has a completely different niche then them? You're basically comparing apples and oranges. It's offenses are as much as tornadus-t's which is enough for it to do it's job and why on earth are you leaving it on clefable? Finally most of it's checks are defensive walls which it can just spam dragon tail to phase them. Also when you said sacred sword you meant secret sword.

 

[Mr. Goodra]

Goodra is C rank because it's a good pivot being able to switch into many special attackers that are tough to wall such as life orb gengar and unlike counters to it like chansey goodra has a fighting chance vs it and it has solid coverage options that are tailored to you're teams needs,plus it has sap sipper to stop serperior from spamming leaf storm. Also why are you comparing it to the Lati twins when goodra has a completely different niche then them? You're basically comparing apples and oranges. It's offenses are as much as tornadus-t's which is enough for it to do it's job and why on earth are you leaving it on clefable? Finally most of it's checks are defensive walls which it can just spam dragon tail to phase them. Also when you said sacred sword you meant secret sword.

Just want to follow on from this.

I'm quite biased towards using Goodra as it's my favourite mon but speaking objectively it is a decent mon that deserves to be where it's at.

My view is almost identical to Guidorealmsmc. Goodra isn't comparable to Lati@s because it serves an entirely different purpose. Goodra is a fantastic pivot, acting as a special tank with a decent offensive presence factoring in coverage. It can phase efficiently and takes on some of the best special attackers in the tier, including BOTH Lando-I and Gengar who are special attacking titans. Stopping Serperior cold is another bonus plus it's immune to spore and leech seed, so it's good for pivoting into Ferro who is everywhere, and taking Spore should either of the grass shrooms trouble your team.

Obviously it doesn't see much usage because it lacks the versatility and utility of the Lati's but it isn't exactly one dimensional because of the coverage options. I'd say it could go slightly up if anything, though poor speed, physical def, and ultimately mediocre special attack keeps it from being in the B ranks.

 

[Srn]

n_n

these rankings look perfectly fine at the moment, and should be polished up after this update, so i can see why this thread's amount of posts per day have been decreasing, but there is one 'mon i believe that should find its place in b rank and that's zapdos. at the moment, togekiss and specially defensive talonflame are pretty much the new / increased trends in higher play usage and zapdos has become more popular as a result. being able to force out talonflame and togekiss is a huge thing considering they are annoying and do what i like to call "cripple-repeat" process which makes them so valuable on balanced teams. being able to force these threats out is great. zapdos is also a defog user that beats bisharp which is cool since all you have to do is run a little speed and 68 special attack evs and it can't switch in safely. mega scizor is popular af, so zapdos appreciates being able to wall the crap out of it and destroy it. zapdos also manages to be unusually fast for a wall allowing it to roost and switch-in without taking 2 hits most of the time, and it isn't passive at all. specially defensive sets can check landorus-i if weakened to a 2/3hko heat wave range and counter tornadus-t and hard checks serperior. physically defensive zapdos is also a safety check to mega metagross when using a physically defensive set and even excadrill if needed by tanking rock slide and retaliating with heat wave. going back to the new trends, these are just favoring zapdos like all the water-types that rose in usage such as suicune, slowking, empoleon, gyarados, manaphy, and starmie. balanced teams can also run volt switch too allow it keep momentum, but that forfeits the ability to beat talonflame and togekiss. finally, it brings a unique set of resistances to ground-, flying-, grass-, and fighting-types while easily breaking past bulky waters which helps teambuilding

I wanna add to this by touching upon zapdos's unique typing letting it take on a rather cool role: a quickpass stopper. The common quickpassers are pretty much scolipede, celebi, gliscor, and togekiss, and even when boosted by their respective moves, they still don't beat zapdos. If you slap roar on zapdos, then you're heavily crippling the fast mons+quickpass teams that are really popular in tour play nowadays (and just good in general).
A good example of this would be your standard mega pidgeot+specs keldeo+np pass celebi core, it kinda just falls flat vs roar zap+keldeo check, and teams usually rely on this core to break stall itself. Pretty neat B]

It's especially important that it stops quickpass togekiss because pretty much every other phazer (heatran, mandi, skarm, hippo, etc) slowly loses to it, but with a little speed creep, you can easily outpace togekiss, eat up air slashes, and kill it before it can pass. No other defensive or stall-based mon can do this while stopping its pass, making zapdos seriously unique. Something like tbolt/hp ice/roost/roar would be the set you run; unfortunately you give up defog but if you're in tour play where quickpass teams are quite common, its definitely a great idea.

I find this niche super important and honestly this alone, along with defeating popular threats like mzor, toge, and talon, should bump it up to B atleast.

 

[Dragongroudon9]

My thoughts on the current discussion topics:

Empoleon: B- > B: No comment really. I feel like Empoleon could stay in B- as it seems to fit in there really. When compared to to some B mons, it really doesn't seem to fit.

Skarmory: B+ > A-: I am completely against this rise. I may be a little biased when it comes to this, but I absolutely hate Skarmory. Not that it is difficult to beat or anything, just.. maybe it is a little too easy to beat. This thing definitely doesn't deserve to be up in A- in my eyes, I think it is easy set up fodder or just there as a desperate filler, very desperate. Just my opinion though.

M-Medicham: C+ to B-/B: Totally agree. Mega Medicham is one of the most underrated megas right now in my opinion cause people still haven't seen to get over the Gallade hype. The wall-breaking abilities of this thing are insane. The fact that it can set up a sub on predicted switches is scary as it is almost guaranteed a kill. With the right support, which is what most B mons need, it can clean. No only that, you can run BP on it to BP a sub to maybe a greater threat such as any S rank mon really. A team with Medicham and momentum is going to be hard to beat.

Starmie: A to A+: You know, kind of like Empoleon, I could go either way on this. Starmie has that better than 350 speed tier that a lot of mons desire. Not only that, it is a pretty good offensive threat as well as being able to get hazards off the field. However, it can be trouble by quite a few mons, which makes me think that it should stay A. Teams can definitely troubled by it if not prepared for all sets, such as bulky reflect type or offensive spin. In the end though, I can definitely see it moving up.

Tyrantrum: C+ to B-: I have seen 1 maybe two Tyrantrums in OU in my life. It gave me absolutely no trouble. (Probably cause my opponent played it extremely poorly) I really don't know the capabilities of this thing, so I might just make a team and see what it can do.

Alakazam: C to C+: Agree. Alakazam seems to give trouble with many teams due to the lack of preparation. This thing is an excellent revenge killer, but can also run many other sets. I do like the though of it becoming for common though, especially since a lot of people look and laugh. It can really be a threatening support/offensive mon.

Well hopefully you have taken the time to look over my post and I look forward to seeing what other people have to say.

 

[Darth Darkrai]

Skarmory: B+ > A-: I am completely against this rise. I may be a little biased when it comes to this, but I absolutely hate Skarmory. Not that it is difficult to beat or anything, just.. maybe it is a little too easy to beat. This thing definitely doesn't deserve to be up in A- in my eyes, I think it is easy set up fodder or just there as a desperate filler, very desperate. Just my opinion though.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree on this. Like you, I may be a bit biased in this regard, but I think you're missing something important: the Custap set. Before the release of Custap Berry, Skarm was pretty fine in B+. While I'm not sure "easy to beat" is the right term for it, since if you're using it properly, it can stall for quite a while. But its uses were fairly limited to Stall and some balance teams. But with the Custap set out now, Skarm has gained a new, excellent use on offensive teams. Between Sturdy, Custap, its access to both SR and Spikes, and its natural bulk, Skarm is literally guaranteed to get at least two sets of hazards up. Possibly even more, depending on how prepared your opponent is for it. It also has access to a bunch of other useful moves. With Brave Bird and Iron Head, its got access to two good STAB moves. While it's not really gonna win a lot of awards for having an offensive prowess, those moves do have their uses. Iron Head punishes Mega Diancie if it tries to deflect your hazards, while Brave Bird gives it a way to commit suicide to prevent hazard removal. Plus, it has Taunt, which is always a good thing on a lead. This set is becoming pretty common on offense teams right now, and for good reason; right now, Skarm may be one of the best hazard setters in the tier, and it's certainly the best suicide lead in the tier. I certainly think it deserves a raise to A-, though probably not any further than that.

 

[Clone]

Skarmory: B+ > A-: I am completely against this rise. I may be a little biased when it comes to this, but I absolutely hate Skarmory. Not that it is difficult to beat or anything, just.. maybe it is a little too easy to beat. This thing definitely doesn't deserve to be up in A- in my eyes, I think it is easy set up fodder or just there as a desperate filler, very desperate. Just my opinion though.

skarm isnt setup fodder for anything bar electric or fire types (which is literally limited to zard x, infernape, and thundy + 1 or 2 others im forgetting) because of whirlwind. furthermore, skarm has access to spikes, and when running spdef and iron head, it becomes a very potent fairy check that a lot of balance teams need. skarmory also has reliable recovery and a great typing which lets it check a shitload of mons, including most of the physical tier and even some spcial attackers like non hp fire diancie, latias, and pretty much any defensive mon out there. skarm should most definitely rise because it is easily a cut above the rest of B+ and it should be ranked as such

 

[Gary]

Lmao getting back into OU is a lot harder than I thought.

Anyways, I don't feel to strongly about a few of the Pokemon that are being discussed at the moment because I haven't used all of them recently.

Skarmory: B+ > A-: Totally agree with this tbh. Specially defensive Skarm is like a god send for most balance teams for its ability to check Mega Diancie as well as Clef and Mega Gard with Iron Head as Clone mentioned. It can also take on an array of physical attackers and set up Spikes in their faces. I just feel like compared to more niche defensive Pokemon that reside in B+ rank such as Chesnaught and Chansey, Skarm just seems to stand out the most.

M-Medicham: C+ to B-/B: Yeah it definitely needs to get out of C+ rank, but anything higher than B- is a bit of a stretch. Mega Medi is just so hard to consider for a teamslot in a meta where Mega Sableye is so common. I mean yeah you have to be stupid not to bring something to beat Mega Eye when using Medi, but it's just that unless you're opponent is dumb, they're going to make sure that their Sableye sticks around long enough to deal with Medi, and there's like absolutely nothing Mega Medi has to touch it with. I feel like a lot of people exaggerate how well Mega Gallade takes on Mega Eye with Skill Swap (the most you really accomplish is burning it while a +2 Knock Off is still doing jack to it) but at least that's something. Every time Mega Medi comes in, Mega Sableye gets a free switch in. Add this to the insane amount of mega slot competition, and Mega Medi just does not seem that viable at all right now. B- seems fine.

Starmie: A to A+: I'm kind of on the fence with this one, but leaning more towards A+. The cool thing about Starmie is that other than like Mega Sableye, it's incredibly easy for Starmie to get off a spin, especially when its insane Speed tier puts it above most of the meta. Defensive sets are a great check to things like Keldeo and Mega Meta, while offensive sets pack a punch and can be a bitch to switch into; Analytic Hydro Pump is a solid 2HKO on Mega Sableye iirc. As a hazard remover, it's practically the most reliable in the tier and has a great matchup offensively and even defensively against a good portion of the meta, and it's able to fit on multiple kinds of team builds, so I think putting it in A+ would seem practical.

Tyrantrum: C+ to B-: Definitely. This thing is very fun and CB Head Smash pretty much 2HKOs everything found on balance bar like Chesnaught. If it gets a free switch on something against offense, it's most likely getting a kill as well. It's still pretty slow and weak to a lot of shit, but it's like a hilariously good hole puncher that lacks reliable switch-ins. It's definitely usable; much more usable then the shit found in C+.

 

[SaberSeven]

Starmie: A to A+: I think this would be in store. Starmie has a nice variety of sets ranging from the bulky set which can check Keldeo, Mega Metagross, etc, the Reflect Type set which helps it become less prone to Tyranitar's Pursuit trapping shenanigans or Ferrothorn's Leech Seeding or Power Whipping schemes, and the offensive Analtyic set which can serve as a NASTY nuke for switch ins. Starmie sits at a nice base 115 speed which outpaces threats like Mega Metagross, Serperior, Thundurus-I, Mega Diancie, Keldeo, etc. Starmie's currently the premier spinner in OU and should be A+

Toxicroak B- -> B: I'd like to make this nomination because Toxicroak is a bit of an anti-meta mon from my perspective. Toxicroak has the ability to check Fairy type threats such as Azumarill, Clefable, and Mega Altaria (before it sets up a Dragon Dance). All of which are ranked A+ or higher and are outsped by Toxicroak. Toxicroak can also check Keldeo (with the added bonus that it is one of the few Keldeo checks that isn't worn down by a burn), Heatran (lacking Choice Scarf), Manaphy (lacking Psychic), Latios & Latias (if they are slightly weakened and if carrying Sucker Punch), Starmie (again, if carrying Sucker Punch which it should be), Serperior (before it gets up to +2), Ferrothorn, Gengar (if it wins the Sucker Punch mind games. Also needs chip damage against bulkier spreads), Chansey, and a few other mons I may be forgetting. If you look at last month's usage statistics, 6 of the mons listed are in the Top 10 of the 1825 usage stats. Unfortunately for Toxicroak, it's still rather slow with its base 85 speed, it isn't very bulky, Mega Gardevoir and Mega Gallade are also fast threats that can bust it easily, and Ground types like Landorus-T, Hippowdon, and Garchomp are very common in the meta. Weaknesses aside, I think Toxicroak is a very potent mon and should get a nudge up to B.

 

[Eraxxer]

On the current slate.

Skarmory B+ to A-:
I'm on the fence, leaning towards staying where it is. It's got an amazing typing defensively, walling a lot of common sets, meaning the SpDef set is really good atm, and the decline of Magnezone is helpful to it so it can run Leftovers. With the release of Custap the suicide lead set is OK, but I have said before that it loses to fast Taunt, and can quite reliably be kept to 1 layer (e.g. Mega Zard Y Dragon Pulse/SolarBeam/Focus Blast turn 1, Fire Blast turn 2 to keep it out of Custap range. I feel like its role can be performed just as well by others, but as I said I'm on the fence. It's definitely one of the better things in B+ atm, but it would be one of the worse things in A-

M-Medicham C+ to B-/B:
I have to agree here, but only to B-. This puts in so much work on stall lacking Mega Sab. That's the thing though, it can't break stall too easily unless Mega Sab isn't on the team/is dealt with. Team support can obviously do this but the nature of stall allows opponents to keep Sab healthy almost all the time and the danger of missing High Jump Kick/Mega Sab/Gengar coming in is very scary. Gallade's access to Knock Off and Swords Dance means Cham is a lot more niche, because despite Gallade not hitting anywhere near as hard, it can hit Psychics and set up on weaker threats. It's also faster, which doesn't make Medicham completely unviable but it hurts it viability a fair bit. B- suits it pretty well.

Starmie A to A+:
I don't agree with this one. Yes it's an amazingly fast spinner but it has a serious case of Breloom syndrome, having only one good stat. 60/85/85 defensive stats means it's not taking hits very well on the defensive set, especially since it runs a lot of speed. Sure, Reflect Type works, but not on things like Mega Lopunny (outspeeds anyway), Dragons, Ghosts etc. Its movepool is extremely diverse which makes the offensive set work wonders but a poor 100 Special Attack stat isn't doing much without the Analytic boost it doesn't always have. A minor case of 4MSS hurts it as well, choosing 4 moves from a long list including Thunderbolt, Rapid Spin, Recover, Hydro Pump, Psyshock/Psychic, Ice Beam, maybe other niche moves like HP Fire. I think it's not really up to the standard of A+ Pokemon.

Tyrantrum C+ to B-:
STAB Head Smash with no recoil coming off 121 Base Attack with 2 reliable boosting moves, STAB Outrage and Earthquake/Superpower for Steels? With Rock Polish to clean up offense once Lopunny/Garchomp or whatever it needs is taken out, or Dragon Dance to boost Speed and Attack at once making Head Smash reach unbelievable levels. Swords Dance or Bulk Up Talonflame are super common at the moment, with this thing (Head) Smashing through both of these sets and eating up hits. B- definitely suits it.

Hydreigon B to B+:
Agreed. Movepool of a king, with dual STAB plus usually Superpower and Flash Cannon but it can run Fire Blast or Earth Power to hit Scizor, Heatran or Ferrothorn harder, or even Roost to stay around against Bulky Offense/Stall. The Scarf set hasn't been really brought up yet, and I know it's not anywhere near as good as the Life Orb set but it's worth mentioning as a revenge killer to a whole load of fast threats, and U-Turn to snag momentum is helpful. But back to the Life Orb set, it's able to 2HKO just about everything in OU after rocks, with an easy combination of Dark Pulse and Draco or coverage. A decent defensive typing with 2 immunities (bar Mold Breaker Earthquake) lets it come in on a fair few things in conjunction with its decent 92/90/90 bulk.

Hippowdon A to A+:
I just don't feel Hippo is that great in this meta. It has 4MSS, requiring EQ and Slack Off on every set, and then a combination of Stealth Rock, Stone Edge, Whirlwind and Toxic. It can eat up hits, but if it wants to not lose to Taunt Talonflame it needs Stone Edge, if you need rocks you loses another move slot, if you don't want to be set up on by Mega Altaria, you need Whirlwind, if you want to be able to do something to Lando-T you need Toxic, if you don't want to be walled by Mega Sableye, you need to Skill Swap Huge Power and learn Play Rough (I'm trying to say it's walled by Mega Sableye). It's still a good mon that walls a lot of things, but if you look at some stuff it's meant to wall like Zard X, Swords Dance sets actually OHKO after rocks with Flare Blitz at +2. The fact that it's beaten by S Rank mons like Keldeo and Lando-I, as well as beaten by MMeta and Mega Altaria situationally (MMeta if it carries Grass Knot and has ~35% prior damage, MAltaria if it's DD Refresh/Sub and you don't have Whirlwind), doesn't help.

Empoleon B- to B:
I reckon it should stay in B-. Some people say it's a Water Heatran, but it's not really. It's not immune to Fire, meaning it's already very limited compared to Heatran. It's also weak to Electric which makes it options even more limited. Yeah, it learns Defog but a lot of other things do that have reliable recovery and similar typing (e.g. Skarmory). B- suits it more imo, it doesn't fit in with some of the B rank mons.

Gardevoir unranked to D:
I think everyone agrees with this. With an expansive movepool, the Scarf set with options like Destiny Bond, Healing Wish, Trick, Moonblast, Psychic, Focus Blast is the only thing like it in OU. It's not one of those completely useless niches we've seen recently (looking at you, Swoobat) and it can put in a whole lot of work in OU.

Edit: Turns out this is over 1000 words. I turn away from writing my 1000 word assignment to quickly write this up and before I know it I've written a freaking small novel. Seriously, don't be surprised if this starts turning up at book fairs.

 

[Relaxed Dedenne]

i gotta say i want to make a shaky ass nom that will probably get me hate but w/e

Mr. Hothead edit: replaced with less obnoxious image:

Hippo A ----> A+

I mean, this guy is like a staple to balance. The reason why bulky Landorus Therian is seeing less usage is because of this guy. The reason why Birdspam is seeing less usage is mainly this guys doing. With nearly unmatchable bulk and a single typing with recovery, this thing isnt easy to whittle down.

This thing is like a Slowbro with supportive capabilities. It can set up rocks to do residual damage to switchins. Sand is a perfect way to help out your own team and give residual damage to the other team. It can Toxic pokemon such as Slowbro on switchin and other stuff. It also has access to Roar, which means it also has ways to stop DDancers such as Char X. Even more, if it doesnt want to run Sand Stream because its team will have no benefit for it, it can use Sand Force to stop sand teams very well. Excadrill has a chance to OHKO its Mixed set at +2 at most, so that shows how bulky it is.

Speaking of Bulk, lets check a few calcs, shall we?

Physical Wall Set Calcs:

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252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 114-135 (27.1 - 32.1%) -- 45.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 320-384 (76.1 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 151-178 (35.9 - 42.3%) -- 92.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 210-248 (50 - 59%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 230-280 (54.7 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 318-375 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+4 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 330-388 (78.5 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mixed Set Calcs:

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252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Hippowdon in Sun: 331-391 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Hippowdon: 154-182 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Hippowdon: 272-324 (64.7 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 335-395 (79.7 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Hippowdon: 265-313 (63 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Dont wanna flood you guys with calcs, but that proves my point pretty well.

With its ability to check almost every Electric in the game, a lot of offensive mons like Talonflame and Landorus T, and force switch outs AND have a great supportive role, this is deserving for A+. Its 108/118/72 bulk is amazing and it can take on a lot of high ranked mons. I also think its on the same level as Heatran, Lando T, Lop, TFlame, etc. in terms of viability.

Before i stop, lets look at the shit it stops:

Hide

S:

MMeta
MAlt

A+:

Bisharp
MZard X
Mega Diancie
Heatran
Lando T
Mega Lopunny
Talonflame
Thundurus (to an extent)

A:

Mega Zard Y (not really)
Excadrill
Garchomp
Itself
Mega Manectric
Tyranitar

A-:

Mega Aero
Mega Gallade
Rachi
Klefki
Mega Pinsir
Raikou
Volcarona

All in all, with all its abilities to be a wall, a supportive threat, a wall with recovery (very few good mons have that attribute), and a sand abuser, this mon is worth a rank that resides with mons like Gliscor and Heatran live, both are pretty big balance users.

Probably gonna get some agrees and disagrees, but thats all part of our opinions. Thanks for reading.

A+.

edit: 1 like and no quotes... no1 likes me ;(

I get Charizard Y doesn't like Stone Miss but, 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Hippowdon: 322-380 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 396-468 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

 

[Teeny Victory]

I get Charizard Y doesn't like Stone Miss but, 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 172 SpD Hippowdon: 322-380 (76.6 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 396-468 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Yes, but if you play it right with Hippo, you can lure in the solarbeam with say a bulky water type such as Slowbro, and then switch out into hippo, as when sand is up solarbeam is a two-turn 60 BP move, and Zard is unable to switch out due to the two turn effects. which Hippo easily gobbles up the weak solarbeam and OHKO's back with stone edge/rock slide. Of course it loses in a 1v1 situation if sun is up, but if you can manage to get sand up with hippo then you can eliminate the Zard with ease if you run a rock move
For reference:
0 Atk Hippowdon Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 292-344 (98.3 - 115.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 388-460 (130.6 - 154.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon in Sand: 174-206 (41.4 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

gonna pop in and even though i'm indifferent on hippos placement, what it has is not 4mss. it doesnt need more than 4 moves to function. its just a large variance of options.

 

[2133]

I have to ask, why is everyone saying that skarmory is guaranteed to always set up two layers of hazards? Doesn't the custap berry only activate when 25% or lower? What if an opponent deals 60% damage?

 

[AllAttack]

2133 If you run minimal IVs in HP/Def/SpDef and run a lowering nature in def, you usually take a lot of damage and Sturdy activates, or you get <25%. And considering Skarmory only has mediocre HP and SpD, it gets into Custap range quite a bit.

 

[2133]

2133 If you run minimal IVs in HP/Def/SpDef and run a lowering nature in def, you usually take a lot of damage and Sturdy activates, or you get <25%. And considering Skarmory only has mediocre HP and SpD, it gets into Custap range quite a bit.

I suppose that does make sense, the thought of lowering defenses never crossed my mind.
It is however not a complete guarantee, right?

 

[Grim]

It's not guaranteed two entry hazards at all. Like you said, an attack that does not bring Skarmory into Custap range means only one hazard, and both Magic Bounce from Sableye and Diancie (unless Iron Head but it really doesn't have room for that) and a faster Taunt from Pokemon such as Thundurus and Heatran prevent Skarmory from getting up any entry hazard. Honestly lead Skarmory is not reliable at all, which is why I almost always use Azelf as a Hyper Offense lead.

 

[Rosen]

everyone knows i've had a raging hardon for starmie ever since the aegis suspect test, and while i'd love to see it moved up to A+ based on pure sex appeal, that's about it. starmie is a great mon, no doubt, but it just isn't quite A+ material.

 

[TFL]

I'm against Starmie moving up to A+. I simply can't say it has the same level of utility as Clefable, Landorus-T, Latios .. and even a few of the A ranks. While it is a solid mon, it isn't super-consistent in its role, Starmie is likely to get Pursuit trapped, can run into Mega Sableye, has a hard time vs a handful of hazard setters: Ferro, TTar, Celebi, etc. and bulky Starmie's lack of offensive presence can let certain threats switch in, almost for free. The offensive set has it's own issues in its longevity and the inability to check certain mons it otherwise could.

 

[Flygonial]

I suppose that does make sense, the thought of lowering defenses never crossed my mind.
It is however not a complete guarantee, right?

It's not guaranteed two entry hazards at all. Like you said, an attack that does not bring Skarmory into Custap range means only one hazard, and both Magic Bounce from Sableye and Diancie (unless Iron Head but it really doesn't have room for that) and a faster Taunt from Pokemon such as Thundurus and Heatran prevent Skarmory from getting up any entry hazard. Honestly lead Skarmory is not reliable at all, which is why I almost always use Azelf as a Hyper Offense lead.

It's quite true, although you can reduce Skarmory's HP, Def, and SpD IVs to 0 and have a Hasty nature, they can always hit you with something like a weak Knock Off, which won't bring you down to Custap range and knock it off, other scenarios such as a lead Mamoswine or Weavile, or a U-turn out to a Raikou or something.