Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Final ORAS Update - Post #1164)

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hyw

Banned deucer.
Mega Gyarados is mostly outclassed by Mega Salamence as a Mega form Dragon Dance-sweeper, but possesses the niche of 6-0'ing stall with its unique access to Mold Breaker and Taunt.

Mandibuzz is completely outclassed by Yveltal, experiencing inferiority in both stats and movepool whilst possessing no redeemable qualities.

GG
 

dream

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Mega-Scizor C+ -> B-

I suppose this won't get much support, however, I've been tinkering with my most recent build, and I happened to possess a Mega slot available for my sixth mon. Subsequent to considerable trial with the conventional Megas being plugged into that vacant position, I stumbled across a somewhat marginal figure in that of Mega Scizor. I'm aware of the several hindrances that come from employing this mon (mostly that it provides free turns to a lot of dangerous mons), and of course there are superior options pertaining to a multitude of builds, however, this mon is gravely underrated in regards to what it can do.
Just to name a few, it can pursuit trap fairly well, it can be used as a pivot on a predicted toxic, it can reliably check certain variants of Xerneas, although I wouldn't recommend having it as your sole Xerneas check (also having reliable recovery in Roost), it possesses a STAB priority move in Bullet Punch (incremented by Technician) which happens to 2HKO most Xerneas variants in return and most importantly, in my ephemeral, yet significant tenure of use, I've noticed how crucial the momentum shift it provides with U-Turn can be for your team. If you bring it during an opportune situation (I've also tested it with other sets such as Superpower or Toxic over Pursuit and those sets also provide some benefits), it will force switches into the most common threats to it (Groudon, Ho-Oh, etc.), which means you can proceed to obtain a favourable matchup coming from those switches, which can be highly useful in any match. This all comes with a pretty respectable defensive typing (despite the blatant weakness to fire).
I'm not advocating a drastic raise in viability, however I honestly believe it's viability in ORAS Ubers is relatively higher than the likes of Mega Aerodactyl/Slowbro, meaning I'd personally slot it over Arceus-Ice in B- or even higher. However, if the response is overwhelmingly contrary, I believe it should at least rise to the bottom of the B- subsection. I'm aware it isn't splashable per se, but it's niche in the current milieu is considerably larger than that of the others surrounding it.
 
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Aberforth

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Look, outside of Defog Mandibuzz is literally a worse Yveltal, and it doesn't even have the few things that work in Yveltal's favour to prevent it from being completely terrible, namely both Dark Aura so that it's foul play does enough damage for it to successfully check some pokemon as well as sucker punch so that it can actually check things like Mewtwo, Deoxys-A and help in revenge killing weakened faster things. On top of that it's less bulky and slower than Yveltal.

As for defog itself being a good enough niche, it's competing with every support Arceus forme, which can also check far more relevant things than Mandibuzz can (like Primal Groudon, for example), but is also faster, bulkier, with better typings and fit better onto an ubers team, while having a base 120 power stab move to not be completely passive vs threats that aren't boosting in front of your face.
 
MSC Knightmare is absolutely right about defog being a significant and important niche for Mandibuzz. I agree with this part 100%.

Problem about Mandibuzz is that it lacks Sucker punch. Since checking fast psychics with immunity+sucker is very valuable in this meta, and Mandibuzz obviously cant do that and will get rolled over by Mewtwo/Deoxys-A.

Other issue w/ Mandibuzz:
+2 0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 276-325 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 0- Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 364-430 (95.2 - 112.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Mandibuzz doesn't actually OHKO Adamant Ekiller and that's a problem since they usually forgo LO. If you can't immediately OHKO them, then you'll probably be swept by a 10% Ekiller anyways.

The point is that, the pros of Defensive Yveltal outweights the pro of valid defogging niche that Mandibuzz got going.

I'm personally not opposed to Mandibuzz in C- but you have to understand that Mandibuzz is an incredibly situational pokemon and there's only few teams that would need Mandibuzz's niche.

e:
can u guys stop shitposting plz?
 

Aberforth

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Rayquza to A, between Lugia and Arc-Ghost.

Ray is an absolute monster of a wallbreaker, and I feel it's currently sitting too low for how good it actually is. I've been playing around recently with the choice band set and there's about 3 switch ins for it that aren't 2hko'd/ohkod after rocks (Dialga/Rockceus/Zekrom) and it also gives a ground immunity, a way of ohkoing pdon, powerful priority, and a good speed tier for a wallbreaker. And that's not looking at some of the other devastating other sets it can run, like DD charti berry, sd, life orb mixed, ext. There aren't many pokemon that put more pressure on a team than Ray does, and giving it the same rank as stuff like Primal Kyogre, Latios and Yveltal is undermining just how good Ray is in this meta. None of them are bad, but none of them can consistently put the same amount of pressure on teams as ray can.
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
Ho-Oh to A+ or A

first time posting here so here goes

Ho-Oh is good, I'm not doubting that. But my understanding is that S rank is for mons that can do really well by themselves, and can fit on almost any team because of this. Ho-Oh really only fits on balance, (and to an extent BO, but bulky mega mence doe everything Ho-Oh does better, except checking Xerneas,) so therefore it doesn't really fit the premise of an S rank mon. Look at every other mon in S rank. Every single one of those can do well in pretty much every playstyle (besides stall).

Hooh's main drawback is how it limits the fuck out of your build. Obviously the biggest part of this is the required defogger, but it also includes the general build. It can't switch into either Primals safely, it can't switch into ekiller safely, it can't switch into mega mence safely, the list goes on. Obviously having checks for all of these is a given for any team, but Ho-Oh builds require you to use more specialized shit like Phys Def Yveltal or max spdef pdon.

But yeah, Hooh is great, and I actually love using it, but the fact of the matter is that a mon that requires you to sacrifice at least one teamslot and change the whole way your team plays, cannot realistically be in the same tier as Xerneas.
 
It's true Ho-Oh only really works on balance or bulky offense, but that's not a limiting factor since both playstyles are still very solid and Ho-Oh still swtiches into quite a few mons common on offense (Gengar, Xerneas, Darkrai) and can put a lot of pressure on stall with burns. It doesn't limit builds nearly as much as you're making it out to be, Defog is required on every playstyle bar hyper offense, which as you've said yourself Ho-Oh isn't viable on. You can't use "it doesn't switch into offensive Pokemon safely" as a reason to move it down since practically every mon in S rank is there for its offensive capabilities, and thus don't switch well into the aforementioned either. If anything Ho-Oh does switch into stuff like mence, ekiller and the primals better due to regen, which allows it to scout, take a hit, and switch out, also gaining back health. Primal Groudon is actually pretty safe to switch into most of the time, as its support set is also more common right now than its offensive set, and these more often than not forgo Rock Slide for Lava Plume since Giratina-O and bulky Arceus formes are more appealing targets.
Part of why Ho-Oh's where it is is also because it hits hard as fuck. You compare Ho-Oh to Xerneas and conclude Ho-Oh can't be in the same rank as Xern, but Xern is actually much easier to switch into than Ho-Oh. Stuff you would normally switch into physical attackers such as pdon, pogre, and gira-o are all 2hkoed, and Skarmory is nuked by virtue of Ho-Oh's typing, whereas Xerneas has a lot more opportunity cost. Other common switchins such as Ttar are 2hkoed by Earthquake, and burns on Lugia and defensive Arceus drastically limit their ability to deal with Primal Groudon. You also have alot more freedom with Ho-Oh since with stuff like don, gira-o and ogre you need defensive investment to take hits, while with Ho-Oh you can pretty freely invest in Speed due to its already excellent spdef and semireliable recovery, so you can actually beat weakened support Arceus 1v1.
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
you're right. Hooh fits really well on balance, but the thing is that balance itself is already a pretty weak playstyle. my understanding is that balance does so well in ou because of the prominence of stall, which isnt a problem in ubers. full-on stall is barely enough to hold back shit like pdon and xerneas, so the extra cushion that's on balance certainly won't be enough to tank anything.

tldr balance is dead in oras and hooh forces your team into it.
 
I'm not the best ou player but I did quite a bit of laddering for OLT and stall wasn't much more common than it is in ubers, I was at the 1900s and only saw stall about four times. If anything balance is more susceptible to stall because it's uncommon for them to have clerics and they lack the breaking power necessary to get through stall, not to mention pretty much every rocker on balance is walled by Sableye. I think you're underestimating stall's matchup vs offense in ubers, if you know what you're doing it's pretty easy to just switch back and forth and just wear offensive teams down with status. For stuff like Xerneas and PDon to break stall you need rocks up and a way to pressure your opponent's hazard control, which means you have to be able to outplay your opponent most turns. idk what 'extra cushion' you're talking about, but there are a lot of mons that are common on balance and not stall do excellent vs offense, scarf xern, bulky ygod, and Rockceus being some.

thanks for including the tldr btw, I'm lazy and cba to read 2 lines
 
ho-oh and xern comparison is retarded because xern is obviously far better. geoxern sweeps and breaks teams by itself. ho-oh only breaks. scarf xern beats vast majority of darkrai sets and ho-oh loses to all sets except for standard sludge bomb darkrai. if i had to choose between xern and ho-oh for a last slot, i'd go with xern in a heartbeat.

balance isnt dead rofl but i agree that ho-oh is overrated. biggest problem w/ ho-oh is the fact that it requires too much support. You have 2 strategies facing Ho-Oh: beat support backbone or beat Ho-Oh itself.

So, the first thing to examine for Ho-Oh's strength in the metagame is the SR metagame. Right now, HO gets guaranteed SR in form of Deoxys-S. BO/Balance gets guaranteed SR with Dialga or Primal Groudon (both mons beat defoggers and magic bouncers). Stall will always lose to Ho-Oh, so I don't really care about SR metagame there. So, Ho-Oh is automatically backstrapped by the fact that it can't freely switch in and the team's overall strategy must shift to remove SR ASAP or punish SR user.

This causes Ho-Oh team to play predictably. And, this is THE problem. Being predictable gives your opponent far too much information and enables your opponent to easily counterplay whatever you want to do.

This issue is only accentuated by the constant presence of Shadow Tag. If you're predictable and facing shadow tag. You will lose. Here's why. None of the defoggers appreciate Gengar-Mega's presence. Hex Gira-o must choose between beating Gengar by hexing/twaving it or defog. Defog Arceus are easily trapped by switch into with forced recover/status/defog and then Gengar just beats them 1v1. Also, there's DBond Gengar which can trade 1v1 vs Ho-Oh if the team requires it.

It's very difficult for me to justify Ho-Oh when Gengar is used so frequently in Tournament scene and completely destroys Ho-Oh teams. Yes, it's true that Ho-Oh has higher winrate than Gengar in Uber open. However, you must consider the fact that to play against Ho-Oh is counterintutitive - you beat it by beating other pokemons around it. So, of course, noobs will lose to Ho-Oh because they have no idea what they're doing lol. In latter rounds, Ho-Oh is used to counter-team people who refuse to use Gengar-Mega.

How effective can a team with dedicated support focused on making Ho-Oh succeed can be without Ho-Oh? Not very.

Even if you don't have Shadow Tag, you can use offensive pressure from pokemon such as Salamence-Mega, Xerneas, Primal Groudon, or any other threat in the tier to beat Ho-Oh teams quite easily. I hope that I don't have to explain how these pokemon can screw over Ho-Oh teams.

I've only seen Ho-Oh to be good on Hack's Excadrill Lead team since it hinges on the assumption that Ho-Oh will faint and trade, rather than Ho-Oh being an useful member of team.

I think that Ho-Oh should go into B+ between Skarmory and MMY. It's a niche pokemon that only works on few teams dedicated to make it work.
 
Ho-oh will be never used on the most used playstyle,Heavy offense.But is good on stall/bulky offense teams.

Lose 1vs1 vs pdon in many case.In many case is used as Darkrai check on bulky offense.Problably lose 1vs1 vs all the meta.So with stealth rock,that can do nothing against a setted up Sweeper.But this isn't the point.Ho-ho probably will be used as "the sweeper check".When the oppo sent out things like Darkrai there's a mind game:if you've a PDon out,the oppo can predict your switch on Ho-oh and setup.+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Thunder vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 426-502 (102.6 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO.So you need to defog,and give a easy plan for win the game.But has got a good point:A speed Ho-oh can do a Brave Bird/SFire and make serious damage to the switch in.Putting Ho-oh in a team means wasting a slot for the defogger.An Ho-oh team can be pressured by many sweepers and wallbreakers.

So,From S rank imho that needs to be A Rank.
 
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mags

Banned deucer.
hooh to b+?!?!? I understand an argument to drop hooh to a+ just cause it needs hella support compared to other s rank mons but you are only looking at the negatives and not the positives. look at the rest of a+ rank. imo darkrai is better than hooh but as far as the rest of a+ hooh is clearly better than the rest. It has almost no switch ins and has pretty good defensive niche. Deo a packs a punch offensively but lacks defense and keys/waterceus are good defensively but lack any offensive presence. imo it should just swap places with darkrai but don't drop it any lower than top of a+
 
Ho-oh (and Darkrai, possibly along with Gengar) would belong in a rank below Xerneas, Arceus-Normal, Salamence but above the current A+ rank as far as I'm concerned. Ho-oh is a great mon that fits on and constitutes the balance archetype in the tier. An issue with it is I guess that no one really understands how to play use it these days? I concur, but that doesn't mean it's worse. Ho-oh teams still have the largest skill ceiling in the tier.

In a manner unique when compared to most mons, it shapes a tournament metagame where you get exploited for your tendency to not run it by extremely Ho-oh weak builds (that are stronger vs everything else). But by using it you force your opponent to prepare differently since they will understand the risk of being weak to it as it autowins plenty of match ups. Everyone will prepare for a PDon, Xerneas, Ekiller or Salamence simply because of the combination of their threat level and usage. Ho-oh is equally as threatening as these mons, but in a different manner. It doesn't win a game by itself out of nowhere, instead it destroys everything more or less systematically over the course of a game through a hit and run style (provided its supported correctly).

It is still a very valuable team player... It is the only strong physical attacker check to Xerneas outside PDon, the only sleep answer without many negatives to it, a great way to status stuff for something like Gengar, a trump card vs passive toxic mons (such as niche steels that Pdon would hate tanking tox from).

Unless we add an S- tier I'm not seeing Ho-oh moving anywhere, anytime soon.
 
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In a manner unique when compared to most mons, it shapes a tournament metagame where you get exploited for your tendency to not run it by extremely Ho-oh weak builds (that are stronger vs everything else). But by using it you force your opponent to prepare differently since they will understand the risk of being weak to it as it autowins plenty of match ups. Everyone will prepare for a PDon, Xerneas, Ekiller or Salamence simply because of the combination of their threat level and usage. Ho-oh is equally as threatening as these mons, but in a different manner. It doesn't win a game by itself out of nowhere, instead it destroys everything more or less systematically over the course of a game through a hit and run still (provided its supported correctly).

It is still a very valuable team player... It is the only strong physical attacker check to Xerneas outside PDon, the only sleep answer without many negatives to it, a great way to status stuff for something like Gengar, a trump card vs passive toxic mons (such as niche steels that Pdon would hate tanking tox from).

Unless we add an S- tier I'm not seeing Ho-oh moving anywhere, anytime soon.
Of course, being extremely weak to Ho-Oh will cause you to lose to it. It's consistent with other B+ threats such as MMY, Sableye, Excadrill, Kangaskhan, and Skymin. All teams must maintain trade offs to ensure that they don't lose to meta threats as you described. However Ho-Oh's trade off is just one move slot (Stealth rock) on good Pokemon such as Deoxys-Speed, Groudon-Primal, and Dialga. And then, you claim that Ho-Oh is equally threatening as other Pokemon ranked higher with correct support.

Don't you see the fundamental flaw? I just described how easy it is to beat the defog support. Gengar-Mega was ranked #5 for Ubers Open r4 usage (30%). Are you willing to risk 30% of time autolosing because Gengar owns the support backbone?

MMY can be S tier if you just pair it with dual fairy, spikes, and sr with your logic. Of course, MMY is going to win. Does it mean that MMY is just as good as Salamence-Mega? I don't think so.

Ferrothorn/Bronzong/Arceus/Lucario/Rayquaza/Excadrill/Kangaskhan/Aegislash are excellent alternatives if you want strong physical attacker check to Xerneas outside PDon which also don't automatically lose to Xerneas with SR up.

There's many negatives to CB STalk Ho-Oh. What if your opponent nasty plot as you switch in Ho-Oh? What if your opponent is thunder Darkrai and gives 0 fucks and kills you right away? What if your opponent is taunt/sub darkrai? What if you desperately need your Ho-Oh to check Xerneas but you can't know for sure if you're going to wake up or not because you used it to check Darkrai. What if your opponent has Protect/Subsitute Gengar which gets free RK after you kill something with sleep talk? And of course, there's always that classic Dark Pulse flinch. Also, what if SR is up? It's quite likely since you're facing a Darkrai.

Ho-Oh sucks at checking Darkrai outside the standard Darkrai and that's still risky due to RNG associated with choiced Sleep Talk.

Yeah, Ho-Oh is great at beating niche steels. Strong and valuable niche that Primal Groudon, Gengar-Mega, Salamence-Mega, Darkrai, Deoxys-Attack, Yveltal, Rayquaza, and Latios also can fulfill quite easily. It's true that Toxic is quite annoying to be afflicted with, and Ho-Oh hates it too. Ho-Oh accumulates a tremendous amount of residual damage from Brave bird and Stealth rock (only can attack once if sr is up).

I think that most people are focused on the best case scenarios for Ho-Oh and neglects how bad the less than optimal case scenarios are for Ho-Oh. You have to play perfectly with zero mistake because if your opponent gets SR up. GG. Ho-Oh is powerful on-paper pokemon with theoretically good compression which simply doesn't translate into practice due to its vulnerability to SR and meta trends which makes it impossible to properly support Ho-Oh.
 
hahahahahaha Shaymin doesn't at all deserve to drop. I'd rather see it rise.

"Can't switch in at all" Neither can Deoxys-A. Should that drop too?
"Hates status" This applies to a lot of Pokemon including Primal Groudon.
"Hard to fit into a team" Ummmmmmmm............. no?
"Gets killed by priority moves quite often thanks to the low 75 Def" Shaymin shouldn't be handling priority users.
"Doesn't work in the current meta" Lol
"25% damage from SR" Yet everyone has an orgasm over Ho-Oh.

Shaymin is one of the most annoying Pokemon I come across. Pretty much anything in the meta that doesn't have priority or resist Flying is haxxed to death by this thing. It's the fastest unboosted non-priority Pokemon in the tier and Uber has very few Grass types, I don't see at all how this wouldn't work in the current meta. Healing Wish is also nice as there are few Pokemon in Uber that can cure the status of teammates. It's a great late-game cleaner and has early/mid-game uses too.

B is already crossing the line, but B-? Shaymin is absolutely fine where it is and IMO it's closer to A- than B.

Go ahead. I know that I'm going to get hate. But I don't care, as better do something than nothing.
 
No offense, but the arguments you bring to the table are kind of weak, or non-existent at all.
hahahahahaha Shaymin doesn't at all deserve to drop. I'd rather see it rise.
"Can't switch in at all" Neither can Deoxys-A. Should that drop too?
In my eyes, it's kind of dumb to compare the two with each other.
Deoxys-A's movepool is far more versatile, has offensive stats that far exceed that of Shaymin's, is faster, and has access to priority.
The fact that it can't switch-in on basically anything is true, but it is one of the only downsides of it, where as Shaymin-Sky has more.
"Hates status" This applies to a lot of Pokemon including Primal Groudon.
True, but the fact still remains. It's not a valid argument to get it even higher than it already is, or to defend its current standing for that matter.
"Hard to fit into a team" Ummmmmmmm............. no?
Just like you just said "no?" and moved on, I won't even elaborate and just state that it is hard to fit it onto a team.
A good one at least.
"Gets killed by priority moves quite often thanks to the low 75 Def" Shaymin shouldn't be handling priority users.
True, but the fact remains that it can't handle them, hence why it shouldn't rise.
"Doesn't work in the current meta" Lol
I don't understand.
Does the fact that you just say "lol" mean that you can't bring up a valid point why it does work?
Shaymin-Sky is Status weak, Stealth Rock weak, unable to handle any form of priority, and auto-loses to anything faster than it.
On top of this, Shaymin is unable to touch Lugia and Ho-oh, two pokemon which you will see on pretty much every form of balance.
Pokemon like Mega Gengar, Mewtwo, and scarf users take care of it no problem, and it loses to any typing with a good matchup versus it, such as steel, and flying types.
The ORAS metagame has shifted more towards bulk, and as Shaymin is only able to deal with pokemon that either have no status more or priority, and need to be slower, I find its offensive presence extremely lacking. If it wasn't for Healing Wish, I would've suggested to drop it lower already, which still might not be a bad idea. At least better than have it move up.
"25% damage from SR" Yet everyone has an orgasm over Ho-Oh.
Yet again, you're comparing apples with pears. Ho-oh's pretty much only downside is that it's 4x weak to rocks. It's incredibly powerful offensively wise, has a nice defensive niece, and has regenerator as an ability. If you want more specific reasoning as to why Ho-oh is superior, just read some of the posts prior to this one. Hack and some others gave valid reasoning. What you're doing is just bringing up another pokemon ranked above and name its weaknesses, to hide those of Shaymins. Since you seem to be so fond of it, try to find another pokemon that has all of the downsides stated above. I wish you good luck with that.
 
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Just looked at the viability rankings, and think that, for the reasons stated above, Shaymin-Sky should move down from B+ to B.
I think that a good thing to do is to have Shaymin-Sky swap places with Mega Lucario.
This would mean Shaymin-Sky would be going from B+ > B, above Aegislash, and below Wobbuffet.
For reasons stated by prior users, on which I agree, I think Mega Lucario should move up, and should take Shaymin's spot in B+
This would entail that Mega Lucario would move up from B > B+, at the bottom of it, although I could see it end up between Excadrill and Mega Mewtwo Y.
 
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shrang

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Damn ninja'd, anyway

hahahahahaha Shaymin doesn't at all deserve to drop. I'd rather see it rise.

"Can't switch in at all" Neither can Deoxys-A. Should that drop too? - (1)
"Hates status" This applies to a lot of Pokemon including Primal Groudon. - (2)
"Hard to fit into a team" Ummmmmmmm............. no?
"Gets killed by priority moves quite often thanks to the low 75 Def" Shaymin shouldn't be handling priority users. - (3)
"Doesn't work in the current meta" Lol
"25% damage from SR" Yet everyone has an orgasm over Ho-Oh. - (4)

Shaymin is one of the most annoying Pokemon I come across. Pretty much anything in the meta that doesn't have priority or resist Flying is haxxed to death by this thing. It's the fastest unboosted non-priority Pokemon in the tier (5) and Uber has very few Grass types (6), I don't see at all how this wouldn't work in the current meta. Healing Wish is also nice as there are few Pokemon in Uber that can cure the status of teammates. It's a great late-game cleaner and has early/mid-game uses too.

B is already crossing the line, but B-? Shaymin is absolutely fine where it is and IMO it's closer to A- than B.

Go ahead. I know that I'm going to get hate. But I don't care, as better do something than nothing.
Main problem with Skymin is that it loses to more things than it beats. I'm not saying Skymin should drop, but A- is laughable. Its offenses are okay when you factor in Serene Grace and flinch hax, but even with those, it's nothing special. On the defensive side, it has very little to offer apart from checking Groundceus (which you're still in trouble if it has Extreme Speed) and potentially revenge killing Darkrai. Flinch hax is good when you get it, but otherwise it doesn't do anything if you're unlucky. Healing Wish is probably the only thing that's consistently good about this thing. Being an annoying Pokemon doesn't mean it's good, and on that point if someone tells me a Pokemon's main objective is to be annoying, then I'm going to tell it's a shit Pokemon because you literally cannot give me a more compelling reason to think it's good.

Now to address your points:
1) One the other hand, Deo-A beats way more Pokemon than Skymin does, and doesn't lose to much more
2) Tbh "hates status" is a crappy general argument, but I think the thing with Skymin is that it either loses already shitty longevity (being SR weak and using LO means you're dying very very quickly) or becomes complete dead weight (Twave).
3) It shouldn't be handling priority users, true, but the reality is that it will have to take on priority users whether it likes it or not. The fact that it can't still remains and doesn't help its case.
4) Problem with this argument is that Ho-oh is still a very desirable Pokemon to use on a team despite being severely SR weak due to its many other great qualities. Skymin having an SR weakness is yet another one of its many problems.
5) Um, no it isn't.
6) There are very good reasons why Grass types are not common in Ubers.
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
hahahahahaha Shaymin doesn't at all deserve to drop. I'd rather see it rise.

"Can't switch in at all" Neither can Deoxys-A. Should that drop too?
"Hates status" This applies to a lot of Pokemon including Primal Groudon.
"Hard to fit into a team" Ummmmmmmm............. no?
"Gets killed by priority moves quite often thanks to the low 75 Def" Shaymin shouldn't be handling priority users.
"Doesn't work in the current meta" Lol
"25% damage from SR" Yet everyone has an orgasm over Ho-Oh.

Shaymin is one of the most annoying Pokemon I come across. Pretty much anything in the meta that doesn't have priority or resist Flying is haxxed to death by this thing. It's the fastest unboosted non-priority Pokemon in the tier and Uber has very few Grass types, I don't see at all how this wouldn't work in the current meta. Healing Wish is also nice as there are few Pokemon in Uber that can cure the status of teammates. It's a great late-game cleaner and has early/mid-game uses too.

B is already crossing the line, but B-? Shaymin is absolutely fine where it is and IMO it's closer to A- than B.

Go ahead. I know that I'm going to get hate. But I don't care, as better do something than nothing.
you already got some (you)s but I just wanted to say some things

the other repliers covered your arguments (although I very much agree with your point on Ho-Oh), but Ill just talk about its actual place in the rankings

Shaymin absolutely has no place in A-. Compared to every other mon there, (except for maybe deo-s), it wouldnt stand up at all. Are you really trying to say that fucking Skymin deserves to be in the same ranking as Latios, Ray, and Yveltal?
 
hahahahahaha Shaymin doesn't at all deserve to drop. I'd rather see it rise.

"Can't switch in at all" Neither can Deoxys-A. Should that drop too?
"Hates status" This applies to a lot of Pokemon including Primal Groudon.
"Hard to fit into a team" Ummmmmmmm............. no?
"Gets killed by priority moves quite often thanks to the low 75 Def" Shaymin shouldn't be handling priority users.
"Doesn't work in the current meta" Lol
"25% damage from SR" Yet everyone has an orgasm over Ho-Oh.

Shaymin is one of the most annoying Pokemon I come across. Pretty much anything in the meta that doesn't have priority or resist Flying is haxxed to death by this thing. It's the fastest unboosted non-priority Pokemon in the tier and Uber has very few Grass types, I don't see at all how this wouldn't work in the current meta. Healing Wish is also nice as there are few Pokemon in Uber that can cure the status of teammates. It's a great late-game cleaner and has early/mid-game uses too.

B is already crossing the line, but B-? Shaymin is absolutely fine where it is and IMO it's closer to A- than B.

Go ahead. I know that I'm going to get hate. But I don't care, as better do something than nothing.
1- The difference between Skymin and DeoA is that Deoxys can compensate his flaw, with an amazing pro of being the best revenge killer in the tier, guarantees at least a kill to any team while Skymin needs more support and depends on the match-up to be effective.

2- No pokemon appreciates status beside guts or magic bounce users, but still a valid argument, Skymin basically becomes a sacking slot if paralyzed, since it loses everything that makes it somehow viable in ubers. Toxic and Burn heavily reduces the amount of hits Shaymin can perform, and we are in the metagame where every team carries one of his best checkers: PDon.

3- "Hmmmm no" is not a valid argument. And yes, Shaymin is hard to fit in a team, since most of the rolls it perfoms are easily replacing by A-S pokemon and there are few excuses I can think pf to justify Skymin as the best to ocuppy a slot in a serious Ubers team.

4- Again, comparing Skymin with a pokemon that can compensate the previous mentioned flaw with a ton of pluses while Skymin cannot.

5- As mentioned before, Every team carries PDon, a reliable checker to Skymin. And the chances of someone losing simply because Haxlash are very low, PDon can switch in 3 / 2 of 4 moves and kill it with Stone Edge of lava plume. Or at the very least make it useless by TWing it. And PDon is not alone, there are many checkers that are common on very teams, the won't let Skymin win a game by pure Haxlash: MMencen, Skarmory, Bronzong, ADragon etc. And also mentioned in items 1 and 4, Skymin's weakness to rocks + Vulnerability to the very common ESpeed and other priorities just make this pokemon Hardly a threat. As a Healing Wisher, it's outclassed by Latias. For the "Closer to A- to B", just compare the things that the A- can do compared to Skymin.
 
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