Lower Tiers ORAS UU Discussion, Trends, and Rambling

[Lyssa]

post uupl random rumbling

- HO resurgence is slowly happening, playstyle is good but it feels so naked in terms of options. The main 2 takes you can have on it to me are either Sharpedo funnelling ( 1 2 3 4 ), built around the fact that sharpedo is an unfair mon when being up against anything but florges (and counter quagsire, apparently) although it somehow hasn't done shit in any of the replays i just posted, and something more theorical like physical offense, where entei and broken oras burns open up the room for the guys to just beat what they have infront of them. The reason why i called it naked is because you don't really have much room to wiggle or experiment with things: there aren't many mons worth funnelling on left and they all require strong support that comes from specific elements/moveslots you can't really take off. In my experience playing with the first kind of team I mentioned above, I never really felt like I was facing a straight up impossible MU due to the amount of tools I had at my disposal, but so many of them were really hard to play through because the teams so slow and often ends up having to take a decent but still unwelcomed trade. Froslass is easily the hardcarry and only reason why the playstyle is still even usable, not many things lead up well into it and it setups the game in a way where getting hazards off the field is impossible unless you're willing to sacrifice an important piece. And finally, I really don't think gyarados is good. Current meta is a near-utopic field for it with most of the things that truly annoy the mon, such as mandibuzz or previously much more utilized aerodactyl, trending off and being seen a lot less, but the mon still feels way too weak, and +1 speed doesn't make the cut. It obviously can steal a game or two but I don't find it particularly worth funnelling, we've seen it once this tour in what can only be described as A Game, so maybe it pops up again in the future.

- Healing wish is broken. For how the tier functions and the pace it plays at, healing wish allows you to take trades you'd otherwise be forbidden from, and boy does that feel unfair in a tier entirely built around proper trading and positioning. Surprisingly there haven't been many examples of this during the tour, everytime it would've come up the game ended before it could, but I'd say it's the one reason for the scarf celebi usagespike we're seeing considering it's the best body it's attached to.

- Speaking of celebi, onion girl is back even as a setup wincon. Few things have contributed to this such as mienshao, mandibuzz and aerodactyl(especially pursuit) falling off in usage which is by far the biggest help it could receive, but also most people moving away from previously utilised outs for it, such as signal beam empoleon, and multiple players having a balance-heavy metaread coming into the tournament contributed their part. All in all, this meta is MUCH friendlier to celebi than what we had.

- The tier is "solved" and what I mean by this is that if you're looking for what is the most consistent thing you can use, and I doubt this is really going to change in the future, you're most likely looking at toad/swamp+emp+bat+3(or better, hwish+2 for last). It's pretty much good into anything commonly utilised, with a couple of things such as heracross and drei being the exceptions, but it having neutral mus at worse into anything else while still holding tools to deal with the aforementioned 2. Instead of defaulting, the trend for multiple people this tour has been finding ways to disrupt said core. We've seen stuff like sableye rose up to the occasion, the mon's still pretty mid into most things but demolishes almost singlehandedly swampert structures. This has been a much more "out there" tournament, with people being more willing to take risks and try out new ways to beat what's been top, although said things are big times flawed into the rest.

- Protect on megas remains a social construct i'm sorry. ORAS speed mechanics absolutely suck but I've never found myself comfortable sacking a moveslot on what is arguably the most important slot on my team everytime, and things get so much better once that is utilised. I've never been a fan of standard absol for multiple reasons I've talked about before, however I am a fan of sucker punch absol recently with the way things are moving towards. Tried it and I never really felt like I was lacking opportunities to get the turn to mega off from, and while I understand especially on absol being able to do that from the start and getting more variance into your opponent's head is great, on top of being able to sack a turn for burn damage if you're utilizing wisp, sucker for lategame and occasionally pursuit are SO good. Other examples such as beedrill with things such as tspikes that can entire MUs around and so much more. At the end of the day, if you're using these mons you're taking a risk regardless with how flawed they are and the requirements you have to put up with to make them work in the first place, not fully committing to their strength is something I don't quite get at that point. Also the absol example sucked and i realised it halfway through writing this paragraph so instead of me calling that shit because it isn't rly take that part as me praising other absol sets i suppose.

random quickfire stuff because i'm too lazy to write much more:
- Houndoom is just good now, and I'd put it as solid top 20. It's by far one of the best hwish partner abuser and mienshao/dactyl trending off are a god sent, the mon feels amazing rn.
- Sylveon is so good for being a glass cannon it's kinda ridic, i've def misunderstood it in some capacity before but I absolutely love her now
- If there is a lesson to be taken from this tour is that any mon with wisp is viable and I hate that.
- Heat/mow tom are both great and should be used more
- Taunt bat is past it's prime and has a much awkward time sequencing nowadays compared to previously, but it's still the bat to consider while theorycrafting because superfang landing is inevitable. That mon stays clear #1
- Knock off empoleon solves every single problem I had with emp before (just knock that viri the mons gonna do 50 with zhb to bat next turn anyways) and the moment celebi and drei fully come back to life i'll hate life again.
- Gligar fucking sucks
- Roserade doesn't suck but it makes your team suck. if you know you know
- Doubalde wins everygame until it doesn't :fire:

ty once again to umbry for building/editing every single team i've used this season, some of them were incredibly fun. I'll be taking a long break from this tier because i'm truthfully bored of it and don't like when things get to that stale point and people start using dumbassery to beat what's good because i'm boring and lack creativity, but I think the metas in a solid place and it's easily one if not the best UU tier atm. bye

 

[London Beats]

Rambling post UUPL


Hey, long time not seen, after uupl I wanted to make a rambling, since some voices already interacted Ima ride the wave with my own thoughts. I am happy to say that I am very glad to see so much diversity of opinions, since I think Oras UU is pretty much a metagame where a lot of ppl could argue that X pokemon is top 10, and others will argue that said mon is niche, lowkey bad.

I used this tour to basically explore more the tendencies I already claimed as mine in the builder and most of ‘em are effectively right, so I am quite happy to be able to say that. 4-1 isn’t the most flashy record, but after seeing that pak was slotted in dpp and the development of my team, spl and blah blah; I kinda lost the drive to keep building and playing for a while.

I gotta shoutouts Sylvi for basically making my building season much much fun, Garay Oak for the same and once again stopping me when I cooked too hard (unlike Sylvi), and last but not least Umbry, though we didn’t talk that much this time, I always ask you for tests and your thoughts about my teams, and I really appreciate it.

Being that said I shall start:

Mega aggron incident

Mega Aggron is still a difficult topic for me, I think Mega Aggron Florges structures are dipshit and if you honestly play them you are either unaware of the game you are playing or you don’t care enough. I saw the renaissance of it using my Krooko Suicune semistall, or at least my 6, but I honestly believe it is far from being spammable and the more I see the ranking I submitted I think I will stick to my guns. But why is that? Well as I said, Aggron needs, and I don’t think this is a debate anymore and the earliest we understand this the better, Crobat’s defog, or mandibuzz but the latter is in a very bad state; and that really really friggin sucks. I cannot explain with words how horrible its having to play Crobat as a defensive tool instead of a progress maker, it's just so alien to the mon itself that it shouldn’t be ever done; but if you wanna vary your repertoire of teams you have to commit with stuff that aren’t your cup of tea always, or as lyssa stated you will end up using Seismitoad and Empoleon in every team.

Though I wanna be the advocate of the devil, Albeit M-Aggron niche as a defensive pokemon is kinda difficult to justify, I think it is a great pokemon to use offensively, being that understood as a 3 attacks rocker. Curse sets are mid at best, and non rocks are worse than trash, but Rocks 3 attacks can maintain rocks in lotta mons, as well as, pressuring the main defoggers/spinner of the tier. You will need to cover its needs, and it is a pokemon that pretty much needs HW/Wish if you wanna play it.


Mientaishan And Its Downfall

I will be adamant on this, I think this pokemon sucks and does nothing better than virizion or heracross, regenerator is cool and w/e, but AV set is bad anyways and you are throwing a pokemon with av, which cannot take scalds because then it is a deadslot, and your best way to win with this mon, offensively, it’s praying for no doublade. Ye, using this is bad. The defensive issues are crazy in comparison, if you wanna get into scald, well you cannot unlike viri; you wanna come in scarf draco, if that's your best counterplay to scarf hydra you have a damn problem; you wanna take momentum out of Crobat, you gotta play your guts in that game and praying for no doublade or you will be playing with 5.

Though I really think this pokemon is not only past its prime but also in a downfall of a caliber this tier has never seen before, I think, I wanna believe, there are structures where this pokemon can shine. But I really am lost in this department, maybe I have to be very strict with where I fit it in, due to how much it invites sylveon and doublade to the field, maybe the backbone you need is bigger or maybe the choice sets aren’t that good after all and maybe LO is the way to play it. I honestly don’t know, I still wanna believe and I will prolly give it a last try, but anytime I give my best to build with this pokemon it ends up being a waste of time.

P.S. Also inviting Sylveon to the field is one the worst things that a pokemon can achieve in this tier, but I will speak more about it later.


Celebi a Clear Case of Fake Information

I think Celebi is bad, or at least against me most of the time. It doesn’t surprise me the rise in popularity of onions though. So many people use bad sets of Empoleon, overuse Seismitoad, and the living fetish with the water dog makes the tier the perfect field for Celebi. But I do believe this is not representative of the tier/meta state, Celebi keeps being a cheesy mon that sometimes will punish bad building tendencies. But maybe I am being too harsh with the onion, I don’t think she is trash at all, I think she is decent and a good way to punish those water balanced that reigns the tier. I just think it is kinda inconsistent, the rise of moltres makes its life quite more troublesome, and the onion kinda lacks attacks if it runs NP, and without NP it lacks power to shred teams; basically a toxic relationship. Though, maybe people have been too harsh with the poor Celebi in PRs, including myself, the truth is that the lil onion keeps rockin 'so Take it into consideration when you try to build your next disgusting fat oriented Suicune team with no wincons! I think I might actually like this.


1001 Nights of Cresselia

Yea, this is weird to word it out but Cresselia is not that bad. I am not kidding when I say that it solves a lot of holes, and the worst MU it’s Kroko, which is rising so be careful (special mention to the forgotten knight Scavalier). It's a nice check of nidoking, and special attackers in general, as well as a fighting resist, check of virizion; you need some heavy oriented team around her to make her work in balance, or use her in some cheesier teams as the one I used against Attribute.

Cresselia has a lot of utility in form of TW, lunar dance, trick even TR. All of this allows you to customize your cresselia at your will and exploiting its capacities as it fullest. I am not saying cresselia it's the new Empoleon of the tier, though I think Cress has been overlooked for too long and it has a nice niche.


Moltres a Story of Wings and Wisps

Disclaimer: If you don’t like strong opinions or cannot accept other views of the metagame, I encourage you to don't read this, you ain’t going to like it.

Moltres is GREAT, and we all should join the cult of the all mighty chicken. Jokes ‘sides people should explore more with moltres. I think the bird is still very unexplored, being me its main advocate, and the player base is still unaware of the correct sets, structures and sequences.

Moltres is the best fire type of the tier, and I will be adamant on this statement, there is no better options if you wanna orient a team around will-o-wisping, the only one that somehow keeps it pace it’s Rotom-Heat (second best fire type), and being completely honest the roles they both encapsulate are kinda different; but still comparable, I suppose.

We all know how obnoxious burn is, and I think I already expressed my opinions about such status in not only Blastoise post but also my PR, and moltres is the best Will-o-wisp spreader with Absol and Rotom. You can basically farm a lot of teams just by spamming wow, as I did against Chaitanya in my game, because unlike the popular opinion, Seismitoad + Florges are not wow checks if your team is not horrible. You cannot check wow defensively unless you run blastoise or some other structure I am not witnessing now, but I will not close the door just yet; and that makes Moltres such a menace, the bird is fast, tanky, great typing though handicapped by rocks, great movepool, and a lot of customization depending on your team.

Hence, we have a pokemon that basically melts teams away if rocks are not in the field, there are many ways of achieving such things it's been largely illustrated, and a defensive tool that checks fightings, having these mons to run coverage only for it (Virizion many times does not like this idea, though the decrease in popularity of rose may help ‘im), fairy types and a big list. Oh also, it is not pursuitable, if you don’t wanna gamble of course.

On another hand, Moltres is better if your oppo doesn’t prepare against it, there are ways to stop moltres such as: coverage, aggressive playing, rocks pressure with a mon that is not the f***** frog, etc. but the bird has been disrespected for too long.

PS. Don’t use defog moltres as your only way to deal with hazards, it ends poorly.


Roserade an Unfair Treatment

I get the roserade hate, many time you lack of moves with it and its makes of her a very difficult pokemon to argue building with; though I think it is being over exaggerated, I saw many teams completely shred by Powder roserade, people slacked too much and blindly used helmet Crobat (best set btw). Problems with roserade are deep and they basically can be encapsulated as the lack of movements she is able to carry, and the lack of defensiveness she has unless you run synthesis, and as I said this is a big commitment to do with a mon that already has a big 4 moves syndrome. But I think you can basically scout for tendencies and use whichever fits your scout, and team better; this might be a bold statement but I honestly believe it.

To heal or not to heal

Natural cure is kinda cheeks right now, I don’t think roserade should be used as an entry of Seismitoad, albeit I understand the necessity of a scald switchin in some roserade teams, and how tempting it is. I think Technician sets been underused, I have not seen a single LO roserade which arguably is the best set for Technician (but this is just my opinion), and I think this is a pity; because the decrease in popularity of pursuit really helps to it in some way, but I guess this is a reading that it is not shared.

Linking the topic of healing, I would like to make an especial mention to synthesis. Many people think that synthesis roserade is reliable or a good option, I mainly disagree with this statement, unless you have a really specific team. Roserade needs coverage, and I really don't think this pokemon can sacrifice a slot to gain synthesis. Roserade already needs, stabs, coverage, and either utility or + coverage; sacrificing this to win a unreliable synthesis people can take advantage of said turn. I don’t know it feels anti synergical, this is pokemon though, and nothing is written in stone and all it's subject to changes if the arguments are good; but on a more general basis this is my opinion.


HO

I hate HO, I find them dumb teams that basically are praying to get a good mu and ask you to brainlessly play taking over-risks because who cares. Though, after the vanting, HO state is great right now as always, some teams just cannot check it all reliably, especially if you try to cook a lot, so that makes HO great. There are some big flaws though, such as how glass cannon the teams are in the moment the opponent can bite back instead of looking how much fun you having , the necessity of Crobat in many teams (HO teams) it’s also understood like a lack of tools which doesn’t indicate anything good, imo; and last but not least, the incapacity these teams have to basically win against any Blastoise team/ scarf hydra spikes (unless u 6/0 with cm sylveon)/ and a short list of common mons right now such as metagross for example.

Lyssa already made a great post about it and I am mostly in agreement with what she wrote, so I don’t think I should speak a lot more about it, gj besti, give her some likes.

PS. I wanted to bring it too T.T.


Sylveon, The Pink Kaiser

Sylveon is great, she is a pokemon that basically forces you to run others which its very purpose is not getting 6/0ed by her shouts. CM sets in HO are hella difficult to handle for many teams, seen Pak last UUPL game and mine against attribute; but specs set, also the most common one, it’s as threatening and much more spammable. Tier been built around scald, but also sylveon shaped this metagame deeply, making pokemons such as Hydreigon that would be taken as S tiers with no debate pretty mid in terms of expectations, just because they invite sylveon to come in every day, and that might be game.

Checking sylveon defensively is not that simple if you don't wanna repeat the same mons over and over, and playing around it also requires that your team doesn’t let free windows to said mon because the result will end poorly. You can use my game against lyssa to take an example of. Using this as a link, I wanna emphasize something, pokemons that call sylveon to the field are difficult to justify. Mienshao sounds great on paper, yes, but if you are not leading the momentum every moment you will be in a very very shaky situation, I assure you this. Hydreigon dark pulses are SO threatening for sure I will win spamming ‘em, sylveon tanks it for ages and hits you back much harder, forcing Hydreigon to run u turn or TW in Scarf sets.


The Doomed Hunt and The Falcon Wings

My favourite topic to discuss with Lyssa and Umbry. Houndoom against Absol and their states in the metagame, as well as the sucky speed mechanics. Love it.

First things first Houndoom popularity should increase, that pokemon is great in many ways: nice utility before Mega evolving, basically threatening random wisps; Utility in form of Wisp or boosting moves such as NP and Flame charge; very very difficult to handle defensively I challenge you to run fire blast calcs at switchin, it ain’t funny at all playing defensively against this dog; very good speed, arguably almost the perfect one; and also coverage, literally the only downside is how useless his ability is after mega.

And then we have our Bouncy Griffith (Absol for who doesn’t get the Berserk reference), Absol, is good and this is not big news, knock off, wisp, magic bounce etc. we are all familiarized with what Absol does, the debate here is much more subtle, and it is the necessity to bring protect. Absol, unlike Houndoom, doesn't have an easy mega, he is basically useless in his regular form, so that's why people will grant us that protect is needed, and I personally believe this is true. Though I think there are ways for experimentation, and structures you may not need to protect and you can run pursuit, sucker, or whatever; I don’t think protect is that bad. The point is, Absol doesn’t need more than knock off and wisp to success, or at least that is my opinion, and protect grants you not only the mega but also a scouting/burnstalling tool. I personally believe this is enough, but I can understand some people's urge to run other stuff.


These two will probably be eternal rivals because of their speed and debate, and I personally like it. I find it brilliant that such a living debate happens in a tier that is quite old.


Toxicroak, The Gem Of The Swamp

Toxicroak is very very underrated, too many people don't play earth power in Seismitoad and too many people brainlessly click scald, and that makes Toxicroak great. Look at it this way, you have a fighting pokemon that unironically wins momentum every time it's in the field and pressures its walls with rocks, handy speed tier (heracross), and a variety of sets.

Sd LO Toxicroak is the real deal. It's really menacing with the correct set up, and the whole tale we are all bored reading. Though the reason why the Frog it’s so good its the ability to switchin in so many defensive pokemons and gain momentum out of it at worst, best case scenario you will just sd and probably get a kill anytime you do so.

Toxicroak is almost the only pokemon that can enter without any punishment to Empoleon, if it doesn’t run IB (tendency which’s been clearly stated, making the Celebi rise possible as we seen in previous paragraphs). Turn you can just use to click any move and be happy with your almost brainlessly progress made, specially if rocks are in the field. Its ability its good but it also is it’s typing, being able to tank zen less virizion and heracross trading HP for their lives, these combined with the ability of healing with any scald thrown makes this mon very very consistent in long term games being my favorite fighting type on those.

I have already spoke about its variety of sets, being able to run multiple items, but I would like to make mention to its movepool which is large, you can be greedy and use no priority, you can have priority and using sucker, you can use t punch for aero, jelli, crobat, Ice punch for the same but being able to kill Gligar, stone edge it's also very good for Moltres and specially Crobat

It’s also handy knowing that Toxicroak is one of the few mons able to enter in the field when Suicune is preparing for its gaming since it cannot be ppstalled by it; knocking it, forcing its roar, and then having fun with the +4 sd you will have against a defensive team not prepared for your gunk shoot (Disclaimer, no defensive team is prepared for this).

Scarf Toxicroak it's also a mon I like to play when I want some speed control, its known its very situational but though it is not heracross, it kinda works similarly being a pokemon that will annoy anything with knocks, speedy gunk shoot, and being a set able to pressure Crobat immediately, and if you can do this you pretty much won the game especially against the defog’s set.


Doublade My Glory and My Shame

Doublade is great, glorious, top steel type even, a wincon by itself and threatening in every spot of the game having the ability of shredding teams by itself with just one sd; what is a very simple task thanks to its bulk being able to get 2 sds many times into a big variety of mons. But it never wins, many times you will use your doublade and find in situations where though you got your sd you cannot win, and this is fine, metagame has been shaped around this pokemon; but it serves him poorly, I personally believe Doublade gotta be used as a lategame tool you can use when you have the correct position, but I think that would be kinda restricting, the truth is doublade doesn’t need sd to win games. I am not saying to not run sd, don’t get me wrong, I am saying that you don’t need to click it and many times just clicking a move or choosing the correct coverage will be better.

Doublade High attack stat is already threatening and many times the pressure this pokemon exerts into the opponent without joining the field is already enough, having them to play in accordance in order to not get sweeped by the incoming SD Sneak sequence. The defensive capacities of doublade cannot be overlooked either, they are just great. It's one of the most difficult to get rid of pokemons in the tier, if we are talking by physical hits, and the perfect panic button when you see something that is going to be menacing and you wanna trade at worst.

I think the main problem of that great wincon that never wins syndrome is reflected when Doublade has to do many things in the team he is in, which is normal, and it doesn’t mean the team is bad; this is just a consequence of the (type of) teams the swords can be part of, which are a lot. Hence, I would also like to speak about the large amount of structures Doublade fits in: Moltres balanced, thanks to flame body and wow you can basically burn your checks, so you make ‘em yours set up fodder; HW balanced and offense, this way you can basically trade with the threatening pokemon or with your check depending of the situation and revive the swords again, making that a hell of a problem for the opponent, who has to deal with doublade twice; HO, I am not a big fan of this due to what I already talked about, though doublade’s defensive capacities are great, the fact that it has to be the piece that have to withstand any counterpunch made by the opponent is too overwhelming and serves it poorly as an offensive weapon. Though sacrifices must be done I suppose, and the truth is that it really fits in this structure.


The Assesination Of Mega Aero by The Not So Coward Mega Sceptile

Sceptile is slowly but surely raising as one of the offense mainstay of this tier, its speed makes of it a real deal, especially with the downfall of Aerodactyl, but the movepool cannot be overlooked either, having one of the most threatening combinations against any team that doesn’t have a Florges.

Sceptile been widened used timid, but people started to use modest Sceptile as a response for the greedy not max speed bats that nowadays flourish, and the under usage of Aero, making of the big fella a hell of a balanced breaking tool, being able to completely demolish teams with very little counterplay and having GREAT rolls against Empoleon and Florges. As always, using Sceptile needs some finesse and it cannot be put in any team due to its weakness to scald though its typing. But I honestly believe Sceptyle is slowly rising as one, if not the best, of the best offensive megas of the tier, but time will tell.


Krookodile Dundee

Krookodile is experiencing a renaissance again, though its defensive sets are kinda outclassed by other pokemons such as Rhyperior, it’s must be said that offensive krooko is a real problem for many teams. Banded is very threatening if you play it correctly and place yourself in a good position to knock off the pokemon you must knock and use it as a late game sweeper, thanks to its handy speed, faster than heracross its great. Scarf it's also a very useful tool for many teams, but I think the real focus should be put in Band.

Band set, unlike other sets, is not a free entry for virizion thanks to the damage of earthquake and the low defenses of the green knight, this makes Kroko a hell of a menace once you can pressure. When you force a double of Kroko into doublade and you have a free hit you pretty much can choose what pokemon is dying if rocks are correctly settled. Though, band Kroko has some problems, some people have used my Stall with Band Kroko as a way to make progress, which is fair, but the Dile enjoys offense/balanced much more than stall/fat structures, rocks are very important for the Band set, or at least to an extent where you are able to create an scenario you can basically sweep with earthquakes.

Another set that’s been forgotten is SR Kroko, and I understand why. The multiple Seismitoad gaming and the incapacity to pressure reliably Crobat, unless you run RH where you are mitigating your sturdiness by a lot, makes its niche very difficult to justify. Though, I think it’s been over hated, there are ways to make it work such as: Seismitoads lures and Florges wish. Knock off is broken, and Kroko is great at knocking stuff, hence by following that we cannot say that kroko’s niche is poorly exploitable.

Intimidate also makes of the crocodile a very handy pokemon to enter to some stuff or just to pivot, same shit with his SR resistance makin him able to switchin with almost no punishment, and if you are skilled enough you can win an extra +6% anytime you place yourself in a good position. I think the problem of this set it’s maybe the resilience of using it on teams that lack of that longevity we talked so much about (Blastoise post if you wanna know more about it), this set is no good as a rocker that trade once and so be it, at least not now, this set is good if the pokemon can knock something, place rocks, and gain momentum back out of its entries.



Thank you all for reading this post, it was really fun to write it, and to comment the different stuff that are going on in this brilliant metagame with my friends. Have a nice day.

S/os again to Sylvi umbry Lyssa Garay oak dingbat talking with y'all about the tier gimme life.

 

[Pak]

Post UUPL Things​

Didn't end up playing my ORAS tiebreak game for semis, and we're now out of the tour. I went 3-1 in ORAS specifically and our team did well overall, but still this tier in particular was pretty frustrating for me. The reason I generally always prefer team tours over individual tours is how much bo1s spur innovation when you're prepping 1 team for a specific opponent. I'll pretty much always slip and fall into some new metagame ideas with more and more people building and there being more general developments to work off of. I felt like I had decent reads on what was going on the tier, but ultimately I was solidly annoyed with how little I actually pushed the boundaries in the builder.

As many know, I've been big into Master Duel since its release a couple years ago, but some formats are much better than others. Currently, there's a deck called Snake Eyes which is way better than everything else right now, and the mirror matchups between Snake Eyes are pretty notoriously awful. It's a bit strong of a comparison, but building this tour felt vaguely similar. What I mean by this is that Bat/Emp/Toad kind of teams feel much better than everything else into the majority of the metagame. There are other options of course, but they always felt worse / less consistent overall. A big part of my style is trying to maximize the amount of playable matchups, and that would constantly lead me back to roughly the same place in the builder. The mirror matchups between Emp/Bat/Toad aren't nearly as bad as Snake Eyes, but there are a multitude of tech moves that can go a long way in swinging the matchup one way or the other. Others may disagree with these sentiments and that's fine. In the end I think I'm just in a bored place with the tier considering how much of it I've played in the last however many years. It's still good and rewards the better player a lot of the time, but it may just not be for me for a while.

Miscellaneous thoughts:

• Crobat is #1 in the tier right now and it isn't remotely close. It is the best glue mon by a ton and it offers a real progress maker with the rising popularity of Super Fang too. Just offers so much between its speed, resistances, general defensive utility (especially vs Fighters), and splashability​
• Wisp is still broken and anything that learns it is probably decently viable, bonus points to Sigilyph for also being immune to Wisp (speed tier too shitty for me to use tho)​
• Maintaining that HO is still really good but healthy. It isn't a herculean task to cover it and generally comes will come down to the plays themselves unless Shark or whatever has an insane mu​
• Virizion is still super splashable but has had a decent drop off imo. Just comes with the insane Bat spam going on and it having to get more turns right than ever.​
• Heracross is in such a weird spot, also due to the Bat spam. Even though keeping rocks isn't hard, if you're going to make meaningful progress vs Bat then you kinda have to have Edge on your moveset. I still dont like SD Edge anymore because you have no midground move at all vs Seismitoad or whatever. I've been liking 4 atk, either AV or just lefties, for a while but obv you miss SD sometimes vs Florg teams and whatever else​
• Aero is washed (compared to the old days). I talked about why I don't think its the best mon anymore a while back, but its only been exacerbated more since then. This is prob the lowest usage its ever had by a wide margin. You would think with all the Bats, this thing would be at its best, but there's a reason Bat is the pick over it the vast majority of the time. Checking the fighters is so huge along with its multitude of other super consistent roles. A lot of the time Aero teams are super loose into the mons Bat checks or need to be super clunky to compensate defensively. Even in the Bat matchups, its eating helmet to click Pursuit and will always have some of the same problems like thudding into its 1-2 hard checks on any good team.​
• Non Edge Mega Pert not being able to effectively deal with helmet Bat is so fucking funny/sad​
• Healing Wish broken​
• Bulky Rotom H with Overheat/Volt/Wisp/HP Grass or Split is so handsome. Lowkey beats everything one on one and is a good way to abuse Bat. Very weird to fit but I'm a big fan and glad I got to use it.​
• Now I said Aero is washed, but Mandibuzz is like actually washed. Very sad for me specifically given my history with the mon, but good gravy its so hard to get away with at the moment. I tried to use non Defog Toxic when I did use it, but even then it was just blanked by Refresh Toad and didn't accomplish much of anything. If it could actually beat the Fighters without giving up its other defensive utility itd be much better. Really bad as a remover rn and its team styles have never felt worse. Viriz/Hera rising have been close to a death sentence for Slowking Mandibuzz cores.​
• Shao is in a level of washed between Aero and Mandibuzz. It's still a good mon in theory and will always do the same kinda shit, but its role has never really felt less essential. It's hard to tack this thing onto any team right now and feel like you're optimal into the metagame relative to other mon options that fill similar roles.​
• Edit: holy moly I can't fit Roserade on anything - that man is so bad defensively. Theoretically powder is good again with all the helmet bats.​
• Snorlax is probably good - was thinking about it in tiebreak but didnt want to risk thudding into Jellicent. Just going to copy/paste something I said to Pearl​

curselax

This isn't a quit post bc those aren't real but idt I'm going to play in UU team tours for a while. I first got drafted in UUPL 8 years ago and my first real breakout tour in ORAS was 7 years ago. Its been a lot of fun, but I just don't care as much or get as much excitement over it as I used to. Overall it makes me incredibly happy with how well-received the tier is now, especially compared to when it was universally hated. I never gave up on it and the fact that there are way more people actively building/care about it means a lot to me.

 

[Pak]

a Lot of Mandibuzz Rambling

​

On a plane and been doing some thinking so writing down some rambling. By the end of ORAS’s current gen run and into 2017 or so on, the tier was marred with cookie cutter bulky Sylveon balance, CB Krook + Mega Sceptile + Gyarados structures, and otherwise attempts at frail offense. The common theme was a general lack of originality toward something truly consistent. Sylveon had something like 60% usage or maybe even more around that time. Many top players saw it as actively handicapping yourself if you opted not to use it and its common partners like Aerodactyl, Celebi, Krookodile, etc. The tier had been universally loved in 2015 and had only gone further and further downhill in the minds of the playerbase afterward. There were numerous threats deemed to be broken by various groups of people. They were ready for the generation to end and to finally put this tier to death.

Even I couldn’t argue that the tier itself was good. However, the perception of why that was the case and the general feelings toward the tier did it no favors with moving in a positive direction. Eventually it became clear that Conkeldurr was the problem and it was banned by a near unanimous vote only a few years ago. Still, a lot had to happen for the community to reach that conclusion. There was a ton of exploration - something it felt like the tier had lacked for months leading up to UUPL 2017 especially. Despite Conkeldurr being the only true problem at the time, it was still an immensely restricted tier with what was reasonably possible in the builder. Celebi, Hydreigon, Sacred Fire, Gyarados, etc had all received some attention in their own right, and the consensus was that the only way to consistently handle these sorts of threats was to use the most bog standard balance possible.

ORAS as a tier has also always had incredibly limited hazard removal options. Empoleon has basically always been the best remover available, then were some other worse off options like Forretress, Tentacruel, Mega Blastoise, and Crobat. Forretress and Tentacruel as mons offer unique traits from the rest of the tier, but it is no coincidence that their usage has dropped as time has gone along. Both offer a ton of utility in theory but don’t accomplish much on their own defensively and naturally make your team more passive. Mega Blastoise has always been decent at worst, but it had an especially hard time in a tier with Sylveon, Celebi, etc. everywhere to limit its breaking opportunities. I maintain even to this day that Defog Bat is a genuinely bad removal option and only sees usage because of how limited the other options can be.

All this rambling is just to give the scope on how well-positioned Mandibuzz was at the time. It offered both a genuinely solid removal option and an incredibly anti-meta pick as a defensive mon. You might notice that it can pivot into or hard wall a good portion of the threats noted earlier, such as Mega Sceptile, CB Krook, Gyara, Hydreigon, Celebi, etc. That a ridiculous lineup considering just how restricted of a tier it was. Simply by maximizing its own team slot while maintaining momentum and providing incredible defensive utility, it enabled a lot of team structures that wouldn’t be possible otherwise. Conk was its biggest hurdle, as it was for basically any team without one of the few hard counters to Bulk Up, but its team styles truly revolutionized the tier. For an easy example, the reason my Mandiqueen Rose team from 2017 was so consistent was pretty simple. Since Mandibuzz and Slowking covered so much between them defensively in two slots, that enabled the rest of the team to fully gear toward dominating matchups into opposing balance teams. I’ve tried to revamp those same 6 mons even within the last year, but simply put, the meta has shifted and the tier has reached a pace where it is no longer optimal.

In general, Mandibuzz and its traditional frameworks aren’t what they used to be. Rockers like Seismitoad, Taunt Krook, Stone Edge Swampert, and others have a much easier time keeping Mandibuzz on the backfoot as a remover compared to other rockers that used to be more common. If hazards are up, Mandibuzz becomes a million times more passive and has a much tougher time controlling the pace of the game. Additionally, Mandibuzz and Slowking are much worse positioned as a defensive core. Virizion and Heracross usage has skyrocketed in recent years. They are super commonly paired with mons like Seismitoad, Rhyperior, and Empoleon which present the opponent with a huge hazard advantage from the get-go along with an immediate threat in the Fighting type. Mandibuzz Florges used to be a very consistent structure as well, but it feels like it essentially hasn’t been seen since Conk’s ban. It’s simply hard for Mandibuzz + Florges to keep up with the pace of the tier that has only gotten faster and faster around them.

This was way more long winded than it probably should’ve been, but it’s just interesting to me how much Mandibuzz’s role has changed over the years. Its teams used to be the pinnacle of playing upbeat and applying more pressure than the opponent. Over time, its defensive attributes have gotten less valuable and its structures have a hard time keeping up as a whole with other metagame trends. However, Mandibuzz is far from dead imo. It seemed to be trending that way for a little while now, but especially into the end of UUBD I was trying my hardest to see if I could make it work again. It’s hard to go wrong throwing Empoleon on teams as the removal option, given how much else is enables, but there will always be a tradeoff when using whatever style. It is always good to diversity where possible and see where the tier can go. The recent example I have was pairing Mandibuzz with non-choiced Taunt Wisp Darm. Especially with some surprise factor, it could status the rocker on the switch, dent rocks, and generate a ton of momentum. All this would go a long long way in letting Mandibuzz more effectively do its job, keeping hazards off and being more valuable defensively. Point is, Mandibuzz isn’t as splashable or omnipresent as it used to be, but it can still be a decent pick in the current meta with a bit of creativity to enable it. After all, it’s one of the only removers that’s still justifiable, and it’s worth further exploration based off that alone imo.

 

[dingbat]

Time for a little post uubd, mid oraspl yapping session from yours truly:

glazing time

I used to think that reflect was yet another one of those moves i could slap into the 4th moveslot on Klefki, but little did i know the true value of buying extra turns in the endgame. In my uubd games vs shiloh and fathiryxi, reflect afforded me additional scenarios to convert 2v2 endgame wins by making it impossible for the opposing Heracross/Virizion (respectively) to nab outright KOs, allowing my Klefki/Infernape (again, respectively) to fire off additional attacks to close out the two battles. Although neither of the two cases showcased a scenario converting a guaranteed loss into a likely win, these examples should at least show the game-altering potential that a timely reflect can provide, especially when running these sorts of heavy offense.
I ran a lot of fucking speed on rhyperior with my absol team and it worked its absolute perfection by outspeeding and killing empoleon not once but twice. Can't wait for people to start running significant amounts of speed on empoleon only for me to load mega swampert or even 0 speed rhyperior again lmao. Also sub + 3 attacks is truly funny as fuck too.
Most players at this point have gravitated towards running physical infernape because, in all fairness, choice band ape is by far its most consistent set, but I've been running some sets inspired from its CG past to decent degrees of success, including nasty plot and mixed. Hopefully, for those who've watched my games, I showed why its entire offensive package ought to be respected despite being one of the most polarizing hit-or-miss threats in this meta.
Absol so far might unironically be my favorite mon to use alongside my klefki offenses because it truly embodies that specific style of aggressive mind games without sacrificing any part of its current identity in this metagame. I would even go as far as to argue that its job is made even easier since, depending on teammates and opposing setters, it won't need to lead off most of the time (I am 0/2 on it as a lead and still successfully denied hazards both times) and can instead come in on favorable targets and spam powerful knock offs, potentially alongside any hazards i've already thrown into my opponent's side.
While its downfall from stalwart status is justified, cobalion is still good for what it still provides here. Being able to run volt switch alongside swords dance is a huge fucking luxury that it doesn't get enough credit for, and as long as you're not running some pussy ass item like shuca berry (huge fucking waste of potential), then it should be able to get solid mileage most of the time.
Forretress will almost never be a direct reason that a team wins, but it's a mon that I like to fit on specific team structures as more of an enabler role. I play this mon a bit similarly to how I play mienshao, except instead of annoying opponents with knock off and rock tomb, I annoy them with hazards and the occasional toxic. As long as you have realistic expectations on how much it will contribute in various matchups, then it can definitely be a valuable asset to consider.
I've been running the pdt offensive spread that he cooked up for me during last year's uusd, and although I got quite unlucky with it both times I've loaded it so far, it has the potential to force a lot of uncomfortable sequences due to how strong the combination of scald/dark pulse/aura sphere is against most of the common meta threats. Longevity is definitely an issue for it as a hazard remover as opposed to others like mandibuzz and even empoleon, but if that's not something of critical concern and the mega slot is not already taken up, then it's very much an option worth considering.
I loaded these two god mons vs col and they never made it onto the field

my pov on teambuilding and the current state of the meta

Throughout most of my history with ORAS, balance had almost always been my preferred team comp because it enabled me to play within my defensive playstyle while still affording some strong hitters on teams unlike full stall. That started changing when during the 2022 edition of UUPL, I was thrown into the fire of BW, a metagame that was and still is a lot more cutthroat in terms of pace than ORAS is. I had to quickly become comfortable with limited defensive resources due to the seemingly endless ocean of entry hazards in that climate, and that meant adapting to a far more aggressive playstyle to give myself any sort of immediate shot at success. Fast forward to the post-slurpuff ban, and I feel that ORAS has developed a sort-of BW dynamic where taking an offensive approach to building has not only felt less limiting in nature, but also quite recently for me a lot more rewarding in terms of results.

While the environment still allows for fat cores to thrive in this meta, balance as a whole has been well past its prime here since the conk meta, and while I and a couple others have strung up some strong fat teams here and there, particularly during the post-conk slurpuff meta, there's really only a select few team layouts at the moment that minimize the list of threats that could cause the immediate click of the x button. Aggron+florges+crobat+defensive water continues to be a common theme here, as it checks by far the most boxes defensively. Personally, I fill one of the last two team slots with at least one wallbreaker with the clear intent of breaking down shit that the rest of my team would otherwise have difficulty dealing with (i.e. nidoking or cb krookodile), and the other to patch some of the defensive holes left in the rest of my team (i.e. blissey or av shao). Another core I've played around with more recently is bronzong+florges+tenta/stoise, and while it checks fewer boxes defensively, I can afford a second offensive threat on the team while maintaining a strong defensive presence. Overall, while I can still achieve good or even great results with balance, opportunities for innovation are extremely limited because, at the end of the day, coming up with defensive stops to almost every scenario is what matters most with these teams.

On the flip side of balance, I've adopted my BW approach to my builds since there's a wide variety of shit here that help accomplish the goal of overwhelming and killing all of the opposing mons first. My blueprint here, similar to balance, is pretty straightforward; klefki + celebi offer so much utility I could ask for in two slots (spikes, twave, healing wish, u-turn, and sometimes rocks/screens is a LOT), and as long as the rest of my team consists entirely of hard-hitters (ideally at least two of which can potentially set up and sweep) and doesn't immediately insta-lose to fire types, I should have at the very least a workable matchup against everything. Froslass lead teams are something I have avoided quite a bit, because even though opponents probably won't expect me to bring it, I just find it much harder at the moment to not only be super creative with my builds, but also come up with techs and sets to completely throw my opponents off (and also because I am a fucking pussy). That being said, these were teams I once considered to be well outside of my comfort zone, but learning how to pilot these teams has given me a lot more confidence to make audacious high risk, high reward plays, and to sharpen my decision making skills, no matter what team I bring out.

Since I already addressed the opposite ends of the team composition spectrum, it's time to address the elephant in the room. Bulky offense in essence affords the combination of aggressive and defensive gameplay that generally fall within the comfort zone of most, if not all players; it's by far the most dominant playstyle in this meta and one that I find the most creative avenues with. Earlier in the post-slurpuff meta, seis+empo+bat was the star of the show as it provided a solid defensive foundation that not only checks off a lot of boxes on the teambuilder, but also supported a large variety of offensive builds in those other three slots seamlessly. However, I've largely deviated from that formula, utilizing my own blueprint to build around ideas that are relatively foreign to the rest of the playerbase. In terms of hazard setting options, I find it to be the most flexible on these teams, especially since I can easily bluff it on one or even two other teammates that could carry rocks before revealing it on something like celebi or sd cobalion. Hazard control is necessary on probably 90% of my teams here, but unlike balance where even the hazard control options are extremely rigid, it's as flexible as it gets here since the two best defogging options in empoleon and mandibuzz thrive the most on bulky offenses to begin with. Finally, you'll almost always expect florges or a Healing Wish user on my bulky offense teams, because in any case, having something to grant second winds to the rest of my team is huge in this current climate, and from there I evaluate which options will help me maintain solid offensive flow while mixing in practical defensive utility to round out my teams. Overall, these teams are easily the most flexible in terms of what I can work with, and while I do find my klefki + celebi builds more fun to play with at the moment, I always have bulky offense to fall back on if I need to reel myself back in.

Teambuilding has always been one of my strongest attributes when it comes to this metagame, and while my teams are generally more tailored for matchup-specific scenarios unlike more matchup-consistent teams from others like Pak, all the calculated risk taking I've taken on the teambuilder definitely led me to exploring these more innovative building avenues. It's also been inspiring to see some of the outward foundations that my brand of teambuilding has laid in this current meta, and I hope to be flaunting some more of it in the near future.

 

[Pak]

Some Somewhat Egotistical Pokemon Rambling
​

Just got done with a lot of studying and a surprising amount of concepts had direct correlations to this stupid game so felt kinda inspired to ramble a bit. Not entirely sure how long this will be or where it'll go but yeah. So it isn't really a secret that a lot of my history as a player on this site has been tracked back to this random old gen lower tier of all places. I've talked about it at nauseam at this point, but in the 2016-2018ish era especially, the tier was not seen in a generally good light. The vast majority of people who'd played it toward the end of its run as the current gen had no desire to go back and it should've by all means died. In a way, I took advantage of this. I was still rough around the edges as an overall player in that timeframe, but that was around the time I started to put the pieces together a bit. There was so much recycling of teams and regurgitating of the same flawed opinions that it theoretically could not have been easier to get the leg up on other people in the builder. It wasn't really a coincidence that my first real breakout tour was in UUPL 2017 when all these factors seemed to line up perfectly.

I did have some success during when ORAS was the current gen, but it was never to the extent that it was after the gen ended. After that first SM UUPL, I sorta became known as the ORAS guy, and that only led me to play and support more of it as time went on. The tier was super flawed and bad for many Conk-rooted reasons, so it still wasn't much of a hit with the general UU player base. However, something I liked about it is that it did allow for skill expression to some extent since attaining consistent success was realistic. Still, I would still credit a lot of this to people using a lot of suboptimal teams and not really putting an effort into understanding the tier. Eventually a lot of the teams I'd spent so much time throwing shit at a wall trying to make were flying around left and right, whether or not I'd given them out myself. That got really frustrating since the tier was so bad, it took a lot of theorizing, testing, and general effort for me to get to those final products.

Sure like in another way it was kinda cool that my teams were seemingly everywhere and that's something that still persists to this day in some capacity. The issue is what it did to my mentality over time. Largely due to my reputation in the tier and the general lack of activity among others, it would constantly feel like a massive disappointment if I ever dropped a single highly variance-based Pokemon bo1 tournament game. It eventually became this weird complex in my head where I'd have this ego from my teams/influence being pretty apparent, and therefore anything I did had to be correct. I could make a blatant misplay, someone calls me on it, and in my head I'd do everything I could to justify it because how could I ever do something so dumb. This carried over to the builder too. I could see something I didn't agree with or something I didn't think was good and immediately get legitimately annoyed because blah blah how could this dog shit do well, etc. I was rarely outwardly toxic to other people, but it became more and more apparent with hindsight how insecure I was internally. Ultimately this just reflects with a lack of confidence or anything else important really going on.

And I can safely say there isn't a worse place to be as a Pokemon player than in that headspace. Playing with a fear of failure, fragile ego, in general being too caught up in the perception of others toward you. This highlights a lot of my 2018-2020ish time period of playing. Again, not a huge coincidence - this lined up perfectly with when I was actively playing in official tournaments and also in the worst IRL headspace of my life. Playing mons for any sort of validation isn't worth it. It's fine to strive for success and sure people are allowed to enjoy different aspects of the game. I guess in my experience all that just never felt worth it past a certain point. I've talked about this a bit before but 2021 was when I really started to shift with my mentality toward this game and also life as a whole. While still far from perfect, both have come a long way since that point. Neither really had ever been better in any aspect.

This isn't to say I altogether stopped caring about the competitive aspect or anything even close to that point. I'm still a very naturally competitive person and sometimes it goes too far. Also, I like having something bigger to work toward in any area of my life. I said within the last couple years, even into what I seem to be hyping up as my 'zen' era, that my goal was to be the best UU player ever. That's ultimately pretty dumb and there's no clear metric or end goal to even accomplish that, but it was lofty enough to keep me around and working toward something. Again, not a retirement post at all - I'm still actively joining tournaments here and there. I guess I mostly wanted to pass along some takeaways from my experiences to whoever happens to read this:

• Ultimately playing this game should come down to how you get enjoyment out of it, and it shouldn't come down to internet clout or whatever along those lines. Some people like loading random teams and playing, others like me have more fun trying to come up with new concepts in the builder, others like shooting the shit on discord more than anything. Doesn't really matter as long as you're around for the right reasons and ideally aren't an asswipe to other people.​
• You can play a billion games in a tier and build a billion teams, but there will always be room for growth. No Pokemon team will ever be perfect. 99% of games played aren't done perfectly. Still, there's a balance between being wanting to improve, but not being overly critical of yourself to the point where it isn't fun. A lot of my time in officials went well, but a lot of my misplays even in wins would legit just haunt me because of how much stock I put into the game.​
• Similar to the last point, no player knows everything. There is quite literally always more to learn and explore. People throw around the term "solved" a lot and I absolutely despise it 99% of the time. Sure maybe it can apply to some of the tiers with super limited mons pools where that's truly all that's viable. Still, the vast majority of the time, there will always be more to do just with the nature of the game. Every team approach is going to be weak to xyz, and xyz is going to be weak to abc, and so on. The top mons might remain loosely the same but there's a give and take with everything in the builder.​
• Alluded to it a bit earlier - you never know what's going to happen in random pokemon bo1s. You can prepare theoretically perfectly for every game, play theoretically very well every game, etc. and still go even or worse in a team tournament. Shit just happens. I've played a million tournaments and have been on both sides of it. Something that always bugged me in going for a lot in some of these tournaments is how bo1 variance can easily happen and shit doesn't work out. I guess what I'm directly referencing is that I've had some UU team tours within the last couple years that didn't go great. If this were in 2018-2020 I'd be freaking the fuck out. I do feel bad about my performances since obv my teammates expected better. I guess my point here is that if you put in the effort and it doesn't work out, then there isn't much more to it. It's one of the main things I didn't like in officials. It's just a fact that people look at you very differently based on how you perform for their team and there's no way around that. Just goes into playing for the right reasons and trying to make the most of your time with the game.​

This tangent will probably sound super random considering what the rest of this post was. I guess I just wanted to say how happy the ORAS renaissance has made me. The main thing that had me conceptualizing this post tonight was how insecure and egotistical I was a while back. Any opinion I disagreed with of course had to be wrong and blah blah I talked about this earlier. Since around 2021, I've really been making a conscious effort to be more open-minded. This naturally helped expand and improve my own building and takes on the tier. Beyond that, it is very cool to me just how differently people see the tier now. You look at any of me, dingbat, umbry, killintime, chris wunka, london beats, reina, liam, could keeping going but you get the point, and you see very distinctly different views and styles in the tier. Shit, in the first VR updates it was hard to convince 2 other people to do it with me. Now we get options and options and the tier has grown a ton. I never ever thought it would be seen as one of the better UUs, let alone the definitive best among some people. I dont really care if this all came off as cringey or whatever, I've said all this before in some capacity, just never in something like this.

 

[Pak]

Scarf Wisp Garde is God
​

I've ended up playing a ton of ORAS recently between ORASPL and ORAS cup and have had some takeaways. Was thinking about this one in class earlier but unfortunately you actually have to pay attention in grad school. Got some other stuff to do so hopefully this one is a bit shorter than usual. Anyway, I've talked a hilarious amount at this point about how incredible Wisp is as a move. tldr ORAS burn broken, tier is prepped for Scald and not burns overall, Wisp makes a ton of progress in general and a lot of the mons that learn it have seen a decent rise in the last few years as a result. What's funny with Gardevoir itself is that it has been a solid metagame presence ever since Conk left in 2021. However, this was mostly as a breaker with Specs or used more purely as a Healing Wish user. It's still the best HWisher by a solid margin, but its utility has extended beyond that.

I had used Scarf Wisp Garde here and there in the past, but I never fully put the pieces together how well it was positioned in the current meta. As I've talked about Crobat has been at its absolute apex of usage, and this is most commonly on those Bat/Emp/Toad or Pert sorta structures. They strike a very good balance between being cohesive defensively while still enabling a lot of progress making. In general, these teams are super spammable and better than a lot of the other frameworks available by default. Despite rocks being so easy to keep up in this tier relative to others, there is a reason Crobat is as good as it is. It is super fast and super consistent in its role. It can Super Fang counters, Taunt rockers, U-turn out of bad matchups, etc. It is super commonly used to pivot early- to mid-game, especially if the opp has a hard time establishing rocks. If they get a faster mon in that deals with it, i.e. Aero, Scarf Rotom-C, Scarf Hydra, etc. then chances are, those things aren't making much real progress versus a fully healthy team.

Garde's STABs have very few real switch-ins, whether they are boosted or not. Sure, these counters may be on every single team, being Steel-types. However, you may notice that every Steel-type in existence despises being burnt. In a weird way that makes sense but you wouldn't think of immediately, Garde is one of the absolute best deterrent and punishers of Crobat in these early- to mid-game scenarios like I mentioned. It is obviously threatened by Garde's STAB Psychic moves, but similarly to the Steels, it is OHKOd by Wisp itself. Wisp is such a free click so much of the time it's insane. Better yet, when it lands Wisp on these Steels, chances are that that is the only real long-term counterplay to Garde as a cleaner in its own right. Next sequence it can just start attacking as the Emp or whatever else keeps getting chipped down.

Gdi I ramble so fucking much. Anyway, the main reason I wanted to make this post was to highlight Scarf Garde's advantages specifically. As you might expect, other sets like Specs do not come remotely close to punishing Bat as well as Scarf Wisp does. Additionally, the payoff of the stronger attacks is barely there in comparison to Wisp. Hypothetical - you lead Scarf Garde vs a usual Emp Bat team: you either click Wisp and make meaningful progress or you can make a slight prediction around their one Wisp switch-in if that exists. You lead Specs Garde vs a similar team structure: to make any meaningful progress into Emp, Demongross, etc. you have to predict that with a coverage move like TBolt, Focus Blast, whatever. I've deadass used Wisp as coverage on Specs for this exact reason, but it just has way less utility even then. The thing that made me realize all this was when I built a team for ORASPL, had enough general Speed, and ironically my team wanted more progress-making. I initially put Specs Garde, thought about it more, then was like "doesn't Scarf Wisp Trick Garde just make way more consistent progress?" The answer was a resounding yes and I was like hm this thing is jesus christ.

Also HWish itself is broken as shit too. I'd deadass put this mon top 6-7 right now or maybe top 5 if I had a couple drinks in me.

 

[Pak]

ORAS Rambling​

Have some time at work and some general thoughts on ORAS and other things. The last few months have randomly been one of my best runs ever in tournaments. Coming off my disappointing UUBD, part of me felt a real chip on my shoulder that hadn’t been there since I want to say like 2019. I mostly played SM in UUBD, which sounded like more fun since I had some random ideas going in and I had been a little bored of ORAS so far in 2024 between UUPL and other stuff. Im still super active on discord because I’ll always have like 8 seconds of downtime here and there at work or whatever else, but I’ve been super super busy since the start of summer. I gave as much time as I could to UUBD but SM itself was so frustrating that whole time. My favorite part of mons has always been coming up with new things in the builder and putting them into practice. Felt like in SM I wasted so much time throwing shit at a wall in the builder with nothing truly substantial to go off of. In reality, SM is so established and recycle-heavy that you can see whatever random team that’s been passed around the last however many years. I had a tough time adjusting to that and ultimately that’s on me.

I signed up for ORASPL after I’d played 1 ORAS game in UUBD, won, then liked the team I built for the last game. I ended up losing the final game and my team was eliminated, I got super Pokémon emo, then was like gdi i have do this for 2 more months while I’m starting grad school and working full time. It turned pretty quickly into wanting some form of redemption between ORASPL, ORAS and SM cups in classic, and then UU homefield which vivalospride made me sign up for. I ended up winning ORAS Cup and being a draco miss away from running the table in ORASPL (I will never ever go undefeated).

The main reason I wanted to make this post is just the dichotomy I felt between ORAS and SM through these tours. I used to always say I’d switch between ORAS and SM in these tours based on a couple factors. ORAS always felt the more prep-heavy between the two, especially given how matchup based the tier could be when Conk was around. A lot of games ultimately came down to what happened before the battle more so than the battle itself. SM on the other hand was the opposite. Sure, getting a team you liked could be hard, but if your team was good, then you would likely have a good shot in any game if you played well. Idk what it is, especially after I did really well in SM during like 2021 and 2022, but I just don’t feel good about SM teams in general. I can go through all the mental gymnastics and theorization for this tier I’ve played for years, then everything goes out the window when I see a team structure I wasn’t expecting or one from a different era. There’ll be give and takes with any tier in the builder, but especially with how oppressive some of the top mons in SM can be, I guess I’ve felt it more than ever recently. Its felt impossible for me not to overthink endlessly then ultimately hate everything I make and blah blah.

ORAS has been different. Like I said, I was real bored of ORAS once the Crobat dominance started to settle in from like late 2023 into early 2024. To put it bluntly, most styles and new approaches just felt Worse than Bat + Emp + Toad/Pert + flavor guys. I had a really tough time coming up with anything fresh that didn’t just feel suboptimal. And sure like, you can spam that stuff and still do well, but I have the most fun when I’m theorizing and trying new things. With that said, again I have not had much time at all. ORASPL was probably the least I’ve prepped for a tour i cared about in a tier I know for a long time. There were a few weeks I put more time into prep than others, but for the most part I didn’t have time aside from picking an existing team that felt good there. So I guess what I’ve been building toward here is that somehow someway modern ORAS has felt way more like SM in the old days than modern SM does, least to me. You can use something Good and Play Well and there’s a good chance it’ll work out. I know that can be said for a lot of Pokémon in general, but that NEVER applied to ORAS in the old days. Conk ORAS was quite literally the opposite and it’s insane to think how far we’ve come. The meta is much more centralized now than say like, Shao meta when Conk’s stranglehold on the tier was gone, but that was a given to happen eventually and nothing is remotely close to broken right now. I just think it’s a genuinely good tier and despite what I said earlier, I’ve still had some random ideas on the margins that have scratched the creative itch. Nothing too insane team structure wise, but some recent ones include Taunt Wisp Darm, Toxic RestTalk Cune, helmet NP recover Celebi with some defense investment, among others.

 

[Pak]

Low Effort Unhinged Takes
​

Just got done with a million ORAS tournaments officially with Homefield over. Now to unload every stupid thought in my head from the last however many months:

• Wisp is still and will always be crazy bananas insane as a move. Cant wait to start seeing Unburden Drifblim and other stupid Wisp guys at some point in the future.​
• Mega Swampert is the best Mega in the tier. Too sober to say that it isn't close.​
• Mega Scep may be more splashable than Mega Aero right now and therefore higher in my 2 second mental incorrect VR, which feels insane​
• Celebi is legitimately very good again. Much less Shao to annoy it and therefore much better Speed tier, Signal Beam Emp doesn't exist anymore, walls Viriz forever, NP and support sets are both solid, happy for our guy who was previously a unanimous top 5 mon​
• IDK how or what but Espeon's gotta be usable on non screens​
• Nidos enjoy the lack of Shao a ton and other grounded Poisons are much less apparent so TSpikes are better AND theyre basically the only TSpikers that don't feel bad​
• Dragalge is like 80 BST away from being sick. He's slow as shit AND is too frail to check anything AND I hate that I liked the design so much upon seeing it for the first time 10 years ago because of this. At least resist fairy or some shit.​
• On that note, Tentacruel is so god flooping sad. Itd be cool if it got like 6 moves AND could beat something (anything!) 1v1.​
• Crobat being the king of the tier is still hilarious but its deserved and also healthy. EmpBat mirrors may get old as a spectator but its perfectly prepare-for-able and they generally play out in the right way.​
• Still somehow in the same exact boat where I don't think Florges itself is bad but I constantly talk myself out of its teams bc you just apply so much less pressure, making mu issues more prevalent.​
• I want to like Ape so bad but I wish it were like 10-15% better. At least outrun Virizion or something dude.​
• I also really want to like Chandelure but I still can't fit it onto any team, even in an era where Aero usage is down like 30%. Would be much cooler if it outsped Hera but I fucked around with it a while back with like Passho Wisp + attacks.​
• I guess I'm just talking about Fires now but bulky Overheat Volt Wisp Split Rotom-H somehow 1v1s the entire tier that isnt named Refresh Seismitoad and its for the best that it barely fits on anything.​
• Rose being so frail on the physical side makes it so hard to fit on anything in 2024. Brother is a Grass that actively makes you worse vs Mega Pert and a Poison that gets beat up by both Hera and Viriz.​
• Lyssa Absol is 80% more awkward without Protect and not having it is unsettling​

 

[Pak]

Doublade Rambling
​

Bored in class - time to ramble. I've been thinking about some random things recently. One thing I saw was ABR submit his ADV OU viability rankings based on his own mon usage of the last however many tours games he had. It pretty clearly isn't an exact or 'correct' science, but the idea is interesting at the least. In general, I would say my opinions on the ORAS VR have gotten more and more tailored to my own feelings with each update. However even when the VR was objectively super wrong back in 2019 and 2020, there were still a lot of established norms that I'd find myself sticking to out of principle. Viability rankings are of course super subjective and there is no correct method or ideology behind them. Everyone has their own experiences, ideas, and biases, and I do think that should be reflected to some extent in any VR submission. It goes back to what I've said before of how I'm glad everyone actually has differing opinions these days.

So yeah that's the context for Doublade. Every time I conducted a self scout in ORASPL or whatever, I would just be like "yep Doublade usage is still hilarious". No matter what my last ten or so games were, Doublade would find itself onto about half my teams, which is objectively an insane amount when I think about where its constantly placed in my own VR submissions. There are mons consistently above Doublade that I use maybe 5% as much as I tend to use Doublade. That is why Doublade came to mind so quickly after seeing what ABR did with his rankings. Even if I don't fully agree with the method, it does put in perspective things like, why do I always put Florges around top 10 when I barely use it, and then Doublade is always hovering around 20-25 despite me using it so commonly?

What's funny is how splashable Doublade can feel compared to a number of other Steel-types that offer much more utility on paper. Empoleon is the best glue mon in the tier alongside Crobat, offering basically the only good hazard remover in the tier and a generally reliable check to special attackers. Mega Aggron, Metagross, Mega Steelix, Cobalion, etc. all offer rock setters, and all of which are pretty reliable in doing so at that. Klefki and Forretress set Spikes and possess other relevant utility. Lucario offers similar sweeping capabilities with way more versatility. Almost all these other Steel-type options have either substantially better base stats, way more utility or versatility, or both compared to Doublade, which basically does one thing and has 5 viable moves and one set. Still, it's crazy how much that's all it really needs.

I guess Doublade just fits my approach to the game very well. Despite not offering utility like removing hazards, setting hazards, or whatever else, it is just remarkably consistent in what it does and provides offensively and defensively. It offers a defensive profile that basically no other mon fits the mold of. It somehow answers all of Mega Aero, Virizion, Heracross, Mega Sceptile, Crobat, Cobalion, Florges, and Celebi among many others all in some capacity. It is far from perfect in any of these matchups and can't simply throw itself into a lot of them, but having the option versus all of them speaks to how much leeway and flexibility it can offer its teams if the need arises. With regards to its own sweeping potential, basically all defensive or offensive answers to Doublade itself are not particularly resilient long-term. The couple exceptions are Suicune and Mandibuzz, but they are passive enough to easily abuse given Doublade's common offensive team structures. The common alternative hard checks like Seismitoad, Hydreigon, Mega Swampert, etc. are all easily worn down over time with the right support. There is no other mon that offers so much natural defensive utility while offering so much to its teams in terms of sweeping potential. The other one that comes to mind would be like Suicune, but the distinction is that Suicune is inherently super inconsistent as a sweeper depending on its set and the given matchup. Additionally, it and other examples often give up lots of momentum, while Doublade has a decent shot to clean up just about any given matchup if things go right. Also didn't mention but yeah turns out STAB boosted priority is good.

Random rambling and idk where I'd actually rank Doublade next ranking cycle but it's probably time it gets more respect - at the very least in my own rankings with how much I tend to spam it and for good reason.

 

[Hydronics]

Big wall of text post, tldr at the bottom.

My team is out of uuwc at semis so I thought I’d make a post before uupl starts up next month. Gonna be my thoughts on this tier plus some things I've learned ever since the start of 2024. I’m doing this now cause I know if I don’t, I will just never get around to it. Wanted to make a big old gens post back in 2022 for my semi finals run in uu classic but I got busy with school and work so I never got around to it. I also wanted to make a post after my finals run this year for classic but got really sick and then uuwc started so I never got around to that either. Gonna make myself get to this now cause I know if I put this off, this post will never get made.

I was the Oras player for UK + Canada which was quite a surprise to me. Before 2024, I hardly ever played oras uu. Just wasn’t a tier I wanted to play and I didn’t have much experience in it. My first real time playing oras uu in tournament was during uufpl. It was a lot of fun but also a bit stressful because that pool was stacked af. I still look back at that pool and I’m genuinely shocked how stacked it was for a farm league tour. I was pretty nervous cause like I said, first time being an oras main and there was a lot of good people in that pool. I called it the oras uu pool of death. Like I said, I was nervous, because there was a good chance that I just get smoked every week. However I was also excited because I got a chance to play so many good opponents every week. I think I did alright overall. I definitely learned a bunch of stuff every week as the tour progressed, which I think reflected in my teams during the late half of the tour. I look back at some of my early teams and they were really sloppy. You could definitely tell that I was an oras uu beginner just by looking at some of the structures I chose to use. One game in particular I remember was my w3 game where I lost. This game without a doubt had the biggest impact on me and was my oras uu turning point.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6uu-761440?p2

I was really big into rest talk spin toise with cb krook but I ran into jellicent spikes which my team really couldn’t handle. I felt really bad losing this game and it really motivated to try and improve at this tier. If somebody can ct me this hard it means that I’m far too predictable and I need to diversify how I build and approach this tier. I went back and realized that for the first 3 weeks, I never used empoleon or defog which is like an oras uu crime. I started using both of them more afterwards and I realized shortly after that empoleon is broke af. Everyone else who played oras uu already knew that but I don’t look up viability rankings nor do I watch any replays in this tier. It took me a lot longer than it should have to start using busted empoleon.

As weird as it sounds, I’m actually glad I lost that week 3 game. I know nobody likes losing but unfortunately for me, losing is thing that motivates me the most to improve. Very bad I know, but it's just how things work for me. If I had won, I would actually be a worse oras uu player overall. It would just reinforce an incorrect play style I was using and I would continue on just spamming spin toise instead of embracing defog + empoleon. That loss really motivated me to refine my oras team building and I think it definitely showed when I go back and look at the teams I brought in uuwc. So I'm happy I was able to lose and get that out of my system so I could start building better. Had a lot of fun playing and building in this tier for uuwc. It’s a good sign for me when I have fun building teams cause that’s how I gauge whether or not I’m enjoying the game at the moment. When I don’t feel like making something, it’s a good indication that I’m not having fun with the game. I’m pretty happy with every team I brought. I felt like I was pretty diverse in the picks I brought for all my games. I felt really comfortable in this tier, better than I’ve ever felt building and playing oras uu.

Gonna talk about a few mons. Particularly the top 3. Some of these may be hot takes. I don’t think mega swampert is the best mega in the tier. I don’t think crobat is the best mon either despite what most people say. I know that bat is unanimously considered top 1 but not for me. I don’t even think it should ranked 2nd either. I’m 99% positive that mega Aerodactyl is the best mon in oras uu. Been thinking about that for a long time and I’m quite adamant on mega aerodactyl being the king of oras uu.

M-aerodactyl is the best mega and the best mon in the tier for me. The first mon I think of whenever I start building a team is aero. It’s just way too fast, way too strong and has an incredibly vast offensive movepool that makes it borderline impossible to cover all the sets aero can possibly run. The most common set is roost/wing attack/stone edge/earthquake. While this set is very popular, I don't think it's quite as good or optimal. My honest take on aero is that roost is a wasted moveslot. Most people use aerodactyl as a fast speed control mon and they try to keep it around the whole game, roosting a lot on a switch. I view aerodactyl as more of a wallbreaker. I don't try and keep aerodactyl around the whole game. I just use it as a mon that breaks open the opponent's team so another team member I have can win the game. I think taking off roost and putting a 4th attack makes aerodactyl so much more threatening. A personal favorite 4th move of mine is double edge. I got the idea way back in 2022 during classic poffs. I remember prepping an oras uu team because I noticed that my opponent was incredibly weak to 4 attacks aerodactyl including double edge. Sadly though, I never got a chance to use it. I didn’t even play oras a single time in 3 play offs series which was ironic but I wasn’t into oras at that time and neither were any of my opponents. So unfortunately double edge mega aero just rotted away in my builder for a year and a half. It wasn’t until w7 in uufpl that I finally got to use it.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6uu-769382?p2

I had to play against passion as my last game for weeks during uufpl. It was a pretty important game cause both of our teams needed to win to make poffs and the loser was out. When I was doing my prep work, I noticed that mega aero with double edge was insane. Decided to bring it and that was definitely a good call. Early game I ran into fast offensive mixed gross which threatened my entire team. I was hoping it wouldn’t be grass knot but unfortunately for me my toad gets smoked early on. Luckily I manage to get out of there with all 6 mons alive while taking down gross and my aerodactyl looks amazing. I finally get to bring it in on nidoking after sacking my Crobat and I’m able to 2hko a swampert on a switch from full with double edge. This opens up the game for me and I eventually run away with it. Unfortunately for me I replaced wing attack last minute for crunch which I was very upset with myself for doing because I can’t ohko mienshao or a celebi at almost full health. It doesn’t change the outcome of the game but it would have felt so good to sweep with demon dactyl.

Another great display of double edge aero is uufpl semi finals.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6uu-770644

Dingbat liked the double edge aero idea so much, he took it and built ainzcrad a team to use the next week and that thing went crazy. With just a little bit of chip, double edge aero kills all 6 mons on the opponent’s team. So the customizability of aerodactyl is pretty much why I think it’s the best mon in the tier. Flying/rock/ground coverage is good and double edge makes it so a full health mega swampert can never soft check aero ever. Crunch destroys jellicent and aqua tail smokes gligar/rhyperior. There’s also 2 other moves I found just as effective as double edge but I’m keeping my secrets.

This is why I think the flying rock dino is the goat of oras uu and I'm a bit surprised no one else thinks so.

Empoleon is broke af too and should be ranked higher than Crobat as the second best mon in the tier. I find this thing way more annoying than bat. Best defogger in the tier and it’s typing water/steel typing is excellent. Switches into so many annoying special attackers. Knock off is so good. Having an empoleon without knock off always feels so bad into opposing empoleon with knock off. Stealth rocks empoleon is also a neat idea. I used it in one of my games for uuwc during pools. I really liked it with swampert and cobalion. When you first look at a team with those two, you would think one of them would be the rocker. It is really easy to bluff rocks on pert or coba. You wouldn't expect rocks on empoleon. Don’t think I have to write as much as I did for aero but it’s genuinely insane how much metal penguin does. Phaser, defogger, scald is broken, knock off. Nidoking also can’t mess with empoleon near full cause earth power puts it into torrent and scald will just ohko it.

Crobat third cause it’s also strong but not better than the other two I had ranked above it. A ton of utility with super fang, taunt, u-turn and even the occasional defog.

Cobalion with x-scissor is also a really cool tech. I brought it against real fv during uuwc pools.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen6uu-811189?p2

Originally I was swords dance stealth rock but I wanted to use x-scissor cause slowking is the most common mon that likes to switch into Cobalion. It also shreds celebi which was a mon I was expecting to run into, which I did. I think more people will start using this as celebi is on a big rise.


Some random thoughts about other mons.

Porygon2 is pretty cool. It’s not amazing but it has a ton of utility and it’s bulky af. Trace is really funny especially against ho. You hard counter gyarados and stealing sharks speed boost is outrageously funny cause you can turn p2 into a reverse sweeper if you’re using charge beam like I do. Taking sylveon’s pixelate also gives very cool interactions with tri attack.

Granbull is actually decent. I don’t think it’s amazing or anything but its definitely usable. It has access to thunder wave (which is a broken move) and super fang which are great utility options. It checks common offensive fighters like Virizon and heracross while being one of the few mons on an offensive team that can take multiple hits from mega sharpedo. Shark has to crit/flinch waterfall multiple times to beat granbull. Very funny mon and I’m happy I got to use it in uuwc.

Not a fan of rest talk mega toise anymore. I talked about this enough earlier. I liked the idea originally when I first started playing oras uu, but as time went on I gradually disliked it more. Requires a lot of support and with the rise of celebii, you just give them a free switch in and setup.


This last part is not gonna be about the mons in this tier but rather oras players that have left an impression on me.


The player I enjoy watching the most has got to be dingbat. Definitely one of the more creative builders in this tier. It’s always a treat watching him play cause I know win or lose, he’s gonna bring something interesting that’s gonna catch my attention.


I think killintime is my favorite oras player. I teamed with him back in uupl 2022 for my first ever uu team tour and he was the oras uu player. He did really well and I remember him bringing some of the most outrageous mons ever. He brought a lilligant to an important game and even won with a gallade. I didn’t realize how insane that was at the time cause I knew nothing about oras, but looking back on it that’s actually crazy he was able to win with some of those mons. Kt also won a super important game back in semifinals to get our team to finals. It was 5-4 and he was last game. If we lost that oras match, we were probably out of the tour. SS was the current gen at the time and our team wasn’t good in that tier. We’d be force to play at least one game of ss and the opposing team just picks ss again and we’d probably lose. Luckily for us, kt beats chait and it was a good time. I remember everyone on our team being so happy. Unfortunately we didn’t win in finals but Sunday night the week before was a very memorable moment.


Im not sure how to describe lily’s style cause it’s very unique. Every time I watch lily play, she’s always in a dire position and it looks like she’s gonna lose she but finds a way to come out of it. I remember one game in particular she pulled a terrible mu and was losing for like 90% of the game. I stopped watching for like 30 seconds but when I comeback she’s in a winning position and only loses to a last turn crit. I was pretty impressed with her play despite losing. I was in the same pool as lily in uufpl so I remember watching a couple of her games and I remember that happening quite a bit. Somehow, she repeatedly is able to turn terrible situations that most other people would probably lose into a potential win. It’s a very rare trait I’ve only ever seen in one other person in all of uu. I could definitely be wrong but from the few games I’ve seen lily play, I think that’s the most accurate way I’d describe her.


I think ainzcrad is pretty good. One of the best newcomers from the uufpl oras pool. I saw a bunch of his games and I think he was really solid overall. As a fellow oras uu newcomer, I do have to cheer for this guy in the future.


I think real fv is actually really good at oras uu, super underrated. Not much to add but my hot take is that he’s actually top 5 currently in this tier. I might be overhyping him, but I see him play a lot and he seems pretty solid. I also play him every single time I sign up for any tour related to oras uu, so he’s kind of like my oras rival. I rate him pretty highly and enjoy watching him play. I think he's a gsc uu player but I would hope that if he does play in uupl, he would play oras uu. I think oras uu is one of the most competitive pools right now so I think if you throw in him and ainzcrad along with the current players in that tier, it would make the oras pool of death 2.0 and it would great to watch.


As someone who didn’t care for oras uu before, I have say that I’ve come to really enjoy playing this tier. I have played more oras uu in the last 10 months than I ever have during the rest of my time on smogon. It was lot of fun exploring a new tier. UUWC was genuinely a lot of fun. I originally wasn’t gonna sign up for that tour. I usually take a 4 month break after classic cause that tour really takes up a lot of energy and time due to the massive volume of games you have to play. I also got very sick around September and I just felt awful for most of classic playoffs. Wanted to take a break and stop playing but somebody told me that nobody on canada/uk wanted to play oras. That was also the only hole on the team so I was like ok, why not, I’ll play oras uu again. Had so much fun playing this tier. I built all of my teams myself for every game and I enjoyed playing all of my tournament games too. A lot of other old gen uu tiers stay pretty stagnant, bar tiering changes. Oras uu is one of the few uu tiers that continually changes from player innovation which is a great thing. I think this tier has a bright future.


TLDR - Aerodactyl is the best (double edge is really good), empoleon is second (broken af) and crobat is 3rd. Granbull and porgyon2 are actually decent picks while x-scissor cobalion will probably get more popular with celebi running around so much. Last part is just a few oras uu players I enjoy watching/think are really good and very unique in their styles.