ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread M3 (READ POST #823)

[Omfuga]

credits to aim for the previous Viability Ranking OP​

Welcome to the UnderUsed Viability Thread! The preliminary rankings for each metagame (every three months, or any other important release) will be decided on by a handpicked group of people who have shown a deep and relevant understanding of the metagame and contributed to the last UU Viability thread. This group, though, is obviously subject to change.

So where do you come in? Well, after the preliminary rankings have been worked out by us, it's the entire community's job to refine those rankings to more accurately reflect the true viability of all relevant Pokemon in the UU metagame. Because our guesses will come before much meaningful experience using Pokemon will have occured, we can't be accurate enough without your help. Post about the Pokemon that you're experienced using, but try not to let your personal bias oversell any Pokemon.

Another key change is in the definition and variety of ranks available. While the S and A tiers still mostly reflect the best of the best Pokemon in the metagame, the B tier is now slightly more expansive, with the B+ tier representing Pokemon that are fairly common and threatening, and the B- tier representing Pokemon who fill minor, but relevant niches. Below this B tier, we have a new generic C tier that displays all Pokemon that are usable in UU, but don't have a niche that is appreciated by most teams in UU. There will now be a D-rank, however this will function like the E-rank of other viability threads, and will only include Pokemon that are currently in the UU tier. The broad-based lower tier serves as a measure to counteract the extreme subjectivity that occurs historically when discussing Pokemon that people have very little experience using.

credits to alexwolf for the base definitions

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UnderUsed metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

Mega Aerodactyl

Feraligatr

Hydreigon

Reuniclus

Salamence

Suicune

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the UnderUsed metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

A+ Rank

Mega Beedrill

Cobalion

Entei

Florges

Krookodile

Mamoswine

Mega Swampert


A Rank

Mega Abomasnow

Azelf

Mega Blastoise

Chandelure

Doublade

Empoleon

Heracross

Mandibuzz

Mienshao

Nidoqueen

Porygon2

Rotom-C

Mega Sharpedo

Shaymin

Slowking

Snorlax

Toxicroak

Whimsicott


A- Rank

Mega Aggron

Cresselia

Crobat

Dragalge

Forretress

Froslass

Infernape

Kyurem

Lucario

Machamp

Mega Sceptile

Slurpuff

Swampert

Tangrowth

Tornadus

Tyrantrum

Venomoth


B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are good in the UnderUsed metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. They can all still function very well given the right team support, but they have numerous flaws that minimize their impact on the tier.

B+ Rank

Mega Ampharos

Arcanine

Bronzong

Chesnaught

Darmanitan

Escavalier

Galvantula

Gligar

Haxorus

Heliolisk

Hoopa

Mega Houndoom

Jellicent

Moltres

Nidoking

Porygon-Z

Qwilfish

Roserade

Rotom-H

Tentacruel

Umbreon

Yanmega


B Rank

Mega Absol

Alomomola

Aromatisse

Blissey

Mega Camerupt

Dugtrio

Espeon

Honchkrow

Magneton

Meloetta

Noivern

Pangoro

Rhyperior

Seismitoad

Sharpedo


B- Rank

Aerodactyl

Amoonguss

Blastoise

Donphan

Fletchinder

Granbull

Kingdra

Mega Steelix

Virizion

Zoroark


C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have small niches in the UnderUsed metagame, but have numerous notable flaws that prevent them from being effective the majority of the time. Pokemon in the C tier require extensive support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon, or their niches aren't all too useful for the current metagame.

Accelgor

Clefairy

Cloyster

Cofagrigus

Druddigon

Durant

Mega Glalie

Goodra

Gourgeist (Super)

Hitmonlee

Milotic

Mismagius

Poliwrath

Quagsire

Registeel

Shedinja

Shuckle

Smeargle

Spiritomb

Togetic

Vaporeon

Weezing

Xatu


D rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are still in the UnderUsed tier, but are, simply put, ineffective in this meta.

New Pokemon Rank: Pokemon that are new to the UU tier and haven't been around long enough to be correctly listed go here.

Zapdos

 

[Christo]

I would not mind discussing the rise of Azelf to A rank. Azelf has become popular with the loss of Alakazam(RIP 2015). Azelf has really amzing coverage and has a few different sets that all work very effectively. SR+3 attacks Life Orb is very good for offensive teams and is one of the faster rocks-setters. Its 125 SpA stat + Life Orb and its great coverage really dent teams. Also, Azelf matches up well versus opposing lead Stealth Rockers and Defoger/Rapid spinners as well really keeping pressure and keeping rocks up. Another set is the Nasty Plot Psyshock set which blows back a lot balance cores. Although Azelf is frail, it forces a lot of switches making it easy to set up a Nasty Plot. Example: A florges switch in, you Nasty Plot and blow it back with a +2 LO psyshock. Another set is 4 attacks which is cool too and lets you hit even more with its great coverage, specifically Hydreigon. Let me know what you guys think about this.

Edit: Also, I believe Shedinja has a niche enough to be in C rank. I understand it seems like it takes a lot of team support, but a solid hazard remover does the trick. Its a hard check to a lot of common threats in uu, so if you can make a decent team it can be very useful. I don't see the other C rank mons like regular Blastoise be any more viable imo

 

[Master B8s]

Nice and new thread I like it :]. I got no nominations to make, but I'm looking at the viability rankings and can I ask why braviary is ranked in C? What exact niche does it have. Defiant to deter defogging? Tornadus does that better imp cause of its ability to go mixed and has great coverage. I'm thinking scarf or band, but scarf is slow (in terms of slower than the common scarfers like hydriegon and mence) but band seems like a nice wallbreaker. I'm just theorymoning but I'm just curious what it does.

 

[Omfuga]

Ok guys so I'm gonna be helping with this thread. My basic guide to posting is:

If you're posting a nomination, explain why you think this pokemon should drop or rise. Feel free to support with its match-up vs other huge threats in the meta, some calcs of its power/frailty, or a recap of its advantageous/disadvantageous and stats/movepool.

That being said, here are some things I think are worth discussing:

Salamence: A+ to S
Azelf: A- to A
Chesnaught: A- to B+
Doublade: B+ to A-
Darmanitan: B+ to B
Arcanine: B to B+
Aromatisse: B to B+
Umbreon: B to B+
Rotom-h: B to B+ (or A-)

I won't make any decisions without discussion, so feel free to put a brief reasoning for what you believe is the correct decision on any pokemon. If you feel that a pokemon should move more than one place, make sure to put that in your post as well.

I went ahead and made two changes that I don't think are worth debating.
Heliolisk: A- to B+
Gligar: B- to B+

 

[Cheryl.]

Oh shit gligar is b+ awesome personally with the death of UU alakazam azelf deserves A rank its nasty plot set has gotten way bettet and it has a great speed tp boot. It can also run mixed so Azelf to A rank

 

[Christo]

Sorry for being a double poster, really, but I agree with all the changes Omfuga posted except the fall of Darmanitan. With Victini staying BL, players began to not prepare as much for fire nukes. Banded Darmanitan hits harder than Victini and 2hko's every pokemon that does not resist it. It is a solid 3hko to Suicune after rocks too. I have been using a team with Darmanitan and it breaks your opponents defense wall turn 1. Although it can not get a 50% chance to burn or use +2 priority like entei, it has a niche with being much stronger and being able to outspeed Krookodile, Lucario etc. So pls don't mess with darm :(.

252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 256-303 (57.6 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 157-186 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- 84.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery(Adamant)

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 80-95 (19.8 - 23.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 132-156 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Tymano]

Wether i do or do not support is in bold

Salamence: A+ to S: Do not Support: Salamence is a really great mon in the meta right now, it has the ability to run many great sets, such as DD, scarf, mixed LO, and fatmence. All of these sets make it a very threatening mon to go up against, but it has many flaws. It faces competition as a DDer from Gatr, and its scarfed and mixed sets are sometimes outperformed by Hydreigon. Fatmence does face competition from other defoggers, but intimidate is a great niche for it. As Mamoswine beats it, and is growing more and more common, I see no reason to raise Salamence.
Azelf: A- to A: Support: With Alakazam gone from the tier, Azelf is left behind reuniclus as the best offensive psychic type. But unlike reun, Azelf has a very high speed stat, and can beat dark types with DGleam. It still serves as a very effective suicide lead for offense, and can hit very hard from the physical side of the spectrum as well. So Raise Azelf.
Chesnaught: A- to B+: Support: Chesnaught might be a very good physical wall, but now it is suffering as M-Aero adn M-Pidge are the best mons in the tier, and both can hit it 4x SE with their main stabs. So lower it down.
Doublade: B+ to A-: Support: Doublade is a great wall that can wall most of the tier based on its massive physical defense with eviolite. It can beat most physical attackers in the tier and has the ability to wall most special attackers as well. It gets a great set-up move in SD, and Ghost/Fighting/Steel coverage hits most walls. So raise it up.

Never really used any of these so I will just give my opinion.
Darmanitan: B+ to B: Do not support
Arcanine: B to B+: Support
Aromatisse: B to B+: Do not support
Umbreon: B to B+: Support
Rotom-h: B to B+ (or A-): Support

 

[GenVDosntReallySuck]

I know people are going to disagree but
Suicune: A+ to A The age of croacune is over....
Florges: A to A- No one stalls anymore...
Umbreon: B to B+ ok i take that back everyone stalls with this monstrosity
Sharpedo B to B- Its not that good, its frail, and doesn't hit hard enough to make up for this fact: 252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Aggron: 128-152 (37.3 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Arcanine: B to B+
Dragalge: A- to B Doublade completely walls it

 

[Cactrune]

I know people are going to disagree but
Suicune: A+ to A The age of croacune is over....
Florges: A to A- No one stalls anymore...
Umbreon: B to B+ ok i take that back everyone stalls with this monstrosity
Sharpedo B to B- Its not that good, its frail, and doesn't hit hard enough to make up for this fact: 252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Aggron: 128-152 (37.3 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Arcanine: B to B+
Dragalge: A- to B Doublade completely walls it

I'll try my best to debunk some of these, and hopefully we can resolve the kind of long and pointless arguments that tend to obstruct real discussion in this thread.

Hide

Suicune: I agree that the age of CroCune is over, but the fall of one of its sets doesn't make Suicune any less effective. The most common set, CM/Scald/Rest/Roar, is just as potent, because it can block other sweepers while setting up on its own. What's more, Suicune still has mammoth bulk that allows it to reliably live a huge number of physical hits, and it checks threats like Aerodactyl, Entei, and Mega Swampert like no other defensive mon can. CroCune might be outdated, but Suicune is definitely still in style.

Florges: Stall continues to be very popular higher up on the ladder, and many players continue to reach #1 in UU with stall teams. However, Florges is actually best on balance, where it serves far too many roles to be replaced. It checks Dragon, Fighting, Dark, and Bug-types while providing incredible Wish and Aromatherapy support all in one moveslot. Its titanic Special Defense also gives it ample room to invest in its mediocre Physical bulk, making it a very good cleric and all-around wall to this day.

Sharpedo: I don't have much experience with non-mega Sharpedo, but from what I've seen it cleans up exceedingly well against offense and balance late-game. That Aggron calc that you posted is largely irrelevant, because Sharpedo's job isn't to wallbreak anyway, it's to remove what's left of your opponent's team once other, stronger mons have done their jobs. Speed Boost combined with Sharpedo's nice STAB combination and movepool is still just as good as ever, and it remains a good cleaner even if it's not in its Mega form.

Dragalge: Doublade doesn't completely wall it:
248+ SpA Draco Plate Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 174-205 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Besides, Dragalge isn't really intended to be a nuke all of the time. Its best niche here is to set up Toxic Spikes while applying tremendous offensive pressure thanks to its Adaptability-boosted STAB moves, which allow it to keep some mons from removing its hazards. It's also ludicrously bulky, allowing it to live hits that you wouldn't expect it to. It's got great typing, a good support movepool, and enough power to back it, and I think it should stay A-.
(Before anyone asks about the Dragalge EVs/item, they're from Dodmen's All Falls Down Team, as I don't really know what else Drag runs these days)

I agree with Arcanine and Umbreon.

I agree with almost all of the changes suggested by Omfuga, especially Salamence. Salamence deserves to be S-rank first and foremost because of its sheer versatility. It seems like every week someone comes up with a new set for this monster, as DDance and Scarf sets have over time been supplanted by others, like FatMence, Mixed LO, and Bulky Dragon Dance. It's very splashable on playstyles from Offense to Stall, and can check many mons (Heracross and Entei are the main ones) while applying a fair amount offensive presence.

 

[HT]

Dragalge: A- to B Doublade completely walls it

252+ SpA Draco Plate Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 174-205 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Walled

Now onto the other stuff

Salamence: A+ to S: Support, super versatile and dangerous being able to run offensive dd, bulky dd, bulky defog, scarf, offensive defog, and special sets. Used to think that it wasn't deserving of S rank after they drop hype went down a bit, but now I think it's good enough to move back up
Azelf: A- to A: No comment, haven't used it enough
Chesnaught: A- to B+: Support, really niche atm for beating gatr. Other than that it's just annoying, can't even beat Snorlax or Suicune which is something that I usually look for in the grass types and fighting types on my teams.
Doublade: B+ to A: Been using it a lot and gonna have to disagree with moving up to A. It's a great blanket check to a lot of stuff and a deterrent to fighting moves, but with things like Gatr, Hydra, and Mega Pert being so common/good atm i don't see it being on par with things like Snorlax and Heracross. A- would be fine by me though. Edit: disregard what i've said, can't c/p correctly
Darmanitan: B+ to B: No comment, haven't seen/used it enough
Arcanine: B to B+: No comment
Aromatisse: B to B+: Could go either way for me, but I'm more inclined to move it up seeing as how fighting types like Hera are so common atm
Umbreon: B to B+: Support, been running pdef umbreon lately and it's actually been putting in a ton of work being able to stop the likes of DD Mence and Gatr with boosted Foul Plays. Spdef is still pretty good if it's what your team needs, sets been around so long no need to say what it beats
Rotom-h: B to B+ (or A-): Support, this thing is really underrated right now being able to check the likes of Mamo, Pidge, and Mega Aboma to name a few while also being able to spread status and gain momentum with volt switch. I could see it being A-

 

[r0ady]

ayyye actually have opinoins on all these changes for once

salamence to S: hell yes. This thing is so fucking versatile in the sets it can run and with every single set i feel they do their job incredibly effectively, versus some "versatile" mons that can run multiple sets but they're all sub par. I'd go as far as to say mence is one of if not the most team mold able mon in the tier rnand easily deserves s rank. ( shoutouts to Christo The Gr8 for his special defog mence, thats the shit)
azelf to a: Yes again and tbh idk how this didnt happen the second zam moved up lol. Having coverage out the ass and a vr 125 special attack set makes this mon a strong special attacker to replace the spoon wielding sage, and new cute sets like sr 3 attacks add to this mons viablity and deserves a move up. Also the tried and true lead set is still great and one of the best leads for offense.
chesnaught to b+: On the fence tbh, probably one of the most annyoing mons to face with its spikey sheild fucking with phys attackers and being able to boast the ability to lay down consistent and easy spikes throughout a game. Although im leaning towards moving down with a pidgeot and aero dominate meta. Spdef set needs some more love though :[
doublade to a-: The fact that this isnt a thing already astonishes me O.o. Not gonna say much that hasnt already been said but this things immense eviolite bulk, insanely good typing, and access to priority make it an A- threat in my mind.
darmanitan to b: Disagree, darms ability to wall break is fucking stupid if you actually use the thing (which half the people who want it to move down probably haven't) Christos calcs prove how insane the thing iscompared to entei, who feels weak af after using darm. Not an A threat for sure but it definitely belongs in the top of Bs
arcanine to b+: Agree, ngl i was one of the ones who used to shit on offensive k9 but after seeing it used more and more im beginning to realize how fucking cool having access to close combat and wild charge is. Can definitly be threatening with choice band but i feel as if a life orbed set with some utility/special coverage could solidify its spot in b+ if it just gets experimented with.
aromatisse to b+: ive used this before but tbh i dont really care where it goes and just have to say its a really shit florg from when ive used it lol
umbreon to b+: the ability to check/counter and pivot around pretty much an entire meta makes me wonder why this isnt higher than b+ lol but again not very strong opinion on it
rotom to b+: i dont really like rotom h enough to have an opinion, sorry :[

so not the most coherent or thought out post but those are my opinions on the possible changes

 

[Hogg]

Things I've been thinking about (ones Omfuga brought up at the top, plus two others I've been thinking about near the bottom):

• Azelf: A- to A. Strongly support. Its LO sets are really hard to switch into, its NP set completely destroys stall cores lacking Umbreon/Meloetta, and I've been messing around with a mixed set that is surprisingly fun. With Alakazam gone, 'zelf really has a chance to shine.
• Rotom-H: B to B+/A-. Strongly support to B+, possibly even to A- (but B+ sounds pretty good for now). Rocks weakness is annoying, but its typing helps it check so many threats right now.
• Doublade: B+ to A-. I agree with Doublade moving up, but A seems like a stretch. A- (ie, on the level of things like Mega-Abomasnow) feels right to me.
• Umbreon: B to B+. Support - I don't really know why this dropped. Umbreon is just a really solid support 'mon and always has been.
• Cresselia: A to A-. Probably the most controversial thing I have on my list. Cresselia is still quite good, but I'm finding it harder and harder to fit on teams. Reuniclus is flat out better at the bulky CM and stallbreaking set, and P2 gives Cress some fierce competition in terms of just being a generally good wall. LO Hydreigon's popularity also really puts a damper on Cresselia right now. Don't get me wrong, I think Cress is still great, I just think its moment as the top defensive 'mon in the tier has waned a bit, especially with P2 as popular as it is right now.
  
• Sigilyph: Unranked to C. Seriously, give this a shot. I've been messing around with it and Kadabra a bit, and I think this can have a niche. 97 Speed is not even bad, and it has cool coverage options in Heat Wave, Dark Pulse and Ice Beam, plus status in Thunder Wave (or lol Psycho Shift Flame Orb, but don't use that :(). I know it's largely outclassed by Azelf, but I think Magic Guard gives it a niche.
• Shedinja: Unranked to C. Bring back Sheddy please :( With Hippo gone and Abomasnow somewhat less useful than it once was (mainly since bulky Waters no longer rule the tier, so Abomasnow is not quite as insanely anti-meta... it's obviously still good), I've been dusting off the old Shedinja stall team, and it's been doing well. I think it deserves a slot on the viability rankings.

I'll think more on the others and post more later.

 

[Wanka]

Some of my thoughts.

Salamence to S: Without a doubt yes. It kind of fell off a bit because I had noticed on the ladder that the Scarf set was underwhelming and DD, while it was a threat, could definitely be dealt with a lot easier once the tier adapted to it. However, with the emergence of life orb mix mence and bulk mence, this thing has become extremely versatile and really fits that definition well. With those sets emerging, players have to respect all of sala's set options as well so certain DD sets have gotten freed up again.

Rotom-H to B+ or A-: I would probably lean towards B+ more than A- because while it can wall a good chunk of the meta, it does require a decent amount of support with its SR weakness and with as low of an HP stat as it has, it can be overwhelmed. None the less, a really solid mon in UU and can pull off a few different sets.

Doublade to A-: I think A- is a solid spot for doub. Walls a good chunk of physical threats and has the ability to be a deadly sweeper at times. It having the ability to perform well on multiple play styles helps its case out too.

Chesnaught A- to B+: Not too sure. I have not really seen it too much lately. Decent spiker but I guess it can be somewhat passive at times.

Azelf to A: A staple for HO. Arguably the best lead in the tier for it. Extremely versatile with access to rocks and taunt or you can turn it into a deadly wall breaker paired with a life orb. All in all a well rounded poke that with its speed, versatility and power it can cause a lot of issues for opponents. You never know what thins things coverage is going to be which is always scary as hell to deal with.

Darm to B: I honestly just don't really see darm anymore. It faces a lot of stiff competition so I could see this happening. I honestly do not think anyone would care if it stays tbh because it just simply is not common anymore.

Arcanine to B+: Arcanine has definitely gained a lot of versatility over the months and with the offensive set getting some what popular I think it deserves a bump.

Aromatisse to B+: Once again, I just don't really see it. Has to compete with florges as a mixed wall, but another mon that I think nobody really cares about where it moves due to its uncommoness.

Umbreon to B+: Yes. With the physically defensive set getting some popularity, Umbreon has a gained an ability to wall a greater portion of mons. And with a physically bulk set you can still take a lot of special hits still with that insane natural spD.

(my man gligar gettin the bump, what a G)

 

[DaSpoofy]

Gligar to B
Sorry Omfuga but this thing does happen to be set up bait for some very common pokemon right now such as Salamence and Gatr. I do like how easy it is to fit gligar on any team since it does so many jobs such as hazards and defogger along with being a mixed wall... but its weak and does not have access to a phazing move. It also walls fighting types that is until they use knock off and make gligar much weaker. It might work great with your P2 in uupl but unfortunately it is not as effective on ladder. Thanks for taking this over btw.

 

[sniperr]

the only thing I really disagree about is darmantian. Yes its rarely seen, but still, did it really get any worse? its fast and frail, but is a pretty solid wallbreaker/u-turn for momentum. its also a pretty viable scarfer as well considering its like only fire scarfer in uu IIRC. when comparing entei to darmanitan, I do believe entei is better especially because of enteis sacred fire and priority e speed, but I don't think darmantians rank should be dropped especially because it can perform a similiar role as entei with more momentum potential, or become potent late game sweeper with the scarf set. it also sits a pretty decent speed tier.

 

[Christo]

Gligar to B
Sorry Omfuga but this thing does happen to be set up bait for some very common pokemon right now such as Salamence and Gatr. I do like how easy it is to fit gligar on any team since it does so many jobs such as hazards and defogger along with being a mixed wall... but its weak and does not have access to a phazing move. It also walls fighting types that is until they use knock off and make gligar much weaker. It might work great with your P2 in uupl but unfortunately it is not as effective on ladder. Thanks for taking this over btw.

Just saying, this Viability Ranking thread is not only for the ladder, I do not see what you're getting at lol

 

[DaSpoofy]

Just saying, this Viability Ranking thread is not only for the ladder, I do not see what you're getting at lol

never said that UUPL champion based lord christo the gr8.

Im saying usage stats are different if Im saying anything

 

[Bouff]

- I wouldn't mind Mence going up to S. I don't like rehashing, but the mixed set is a really great wallbreaker that breaks down most defensive cores unless they have SpDef Cress, and Mence in general is a great answer to Fighting-types like Hera and Mienshao (granted it doesn't like switching into Stone Edge if rocks are up). The Fatmence set has a lot of utility too that's surprisingly customizable depending on your team (Flamethrower if you wanna poop on things like Doublade and Forre, Dragon Tail / Roar if you wanna rack up hazards damage, etc.). I think people give Scarfmence a lot less credit than it should have, though, since it's actually pretty good on hyper offensive teams as a revenge killer / lategame cleaner; yeah it's not especially good against balance teams but most of the teams that tend to carry it do well enough versus them anyway. Very splashable on a lot of team archetypes right now and has a lot of defensive merit, even if the SR weakness and 4x weakness to Ice suck bolas.

- Definitely agree with this one, like Mence, can fit on virtually any playstyle and countering Aero / Cobalion is a godsend for most offensive teams right now since it has gargantuan physical bulk and nice defensive typing. This is also nice since it lets Doublade get a lot of opportunities to set up, and aside from bulky waters, not a lot likes switching into this thing.

- Agree with this one moving up as well, even if it gets worn down quickly by SR and its recovery is garbo, switching into the likes of Bird / non SE Mamo is a really good quality for any mon in the meta right now, and it has a good speed tier as well which lets it poop on mons like the aformentioned Mamo, unboosted Gatr, etc. The Specs set is also a pain in the ass for balance teams to face (I learned this the hard way : ( )

Don't really have much else to say that others haven't. I definitely disagree with Gligar moving back down though, it forms a really great balanced core with Normal-type mons like Lax and P2, and it hard-stops a lot of notable physical attackers right now too. There's also the fact that it's fairly versatile, as it can choose to set up or remove hazards (or both if your team needs it), and has a nice movepool as well. One set that a friend told me about that I've been trying is EQ | SD | Roost | Knock Off SpDef Gligar, which is a pain for balance teams to face if you can pair it with something that does well vs bulky waters, Aero, etc. At the very least I think it's on par with Zong, Toad, and Rhyp as a defensive SR setter, but even then it has qualities that set it far apart from any of those.

 

[bsu]

Alomololololllalaalaolaolal rise to A-??
Chubs luvdisc basically walls all physical attackers, and can wish pass to prevent too much momentum loss as it softens the hit the incoming pokemon takes as alo gets switched out, + regenerator so alo doesn't need its own wish. with knock off and scald alo isn't a complete sitting duck, although sub gatr sets up i guess. and its teammates can cover its weaknesses

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 68 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 413-487 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
kinda random calc but what else is living a neutral +2 CC without even using all of the EVs

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 68 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 328-386 (67.2 - 79%)
0 SpA Alomomola Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 156-184 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO
AND U CAN BOP THEM SALAMENCES TRYNA SET UP ON U HEHEHEHHEHEHE lol

ps the rocky helmet set is soooooo annoying to deal with when backed with proper garbage stall team support

 

[Duke University]

Salamence: A+ to S

Salamence is very good in this meta because if fulfills different roles for different team archetypes. Furthermore, on Balance and Offense teams, Salamence is a huge flex pick because of its mixed ability to be a great support Pokemon (Defog) and sheer wall-breaking power with 130/115 offensive stats. Furthermore, Salamence has become quite crucial for modern UU stall as it's the only solid answer to most forms of Heracross. In a sense, Salamence is basically UU's Latios, more or less (pardon the analogy).

Azelf: A- to A

From my experience, Azelf is amazing for a lot of offensive teams because it provides raw offensive presence, a very delicious speed tier, and Hazard support. Like Salamence, Azelf is also very flexible to your team composition and easily rounds out teams. The amount of support and momentum it provides for Offense is great, especially in this meta.

Chesnaught: A- to B+

I would have it stay. Although some may argue that's it's niche, it provides nice checks to offensive waters (really big atm) and bulky waters, all while providing hazard support. I see the arguments on both sides, and frankly speaking, it does lose tempo for teams in the current meta.

Umbreon: B to B+

There's been some minor discussion about this as a Pidgeot check. Although people've debunked that notion, Umbreon is still a very good method for pressuring the multitude of physical mons in the tier.

Rotom-h: B to B+ (or A-)

Although Rotom-H is a decent check to Pidge, Mamo, and other threats and a decent pivot in general, it still has liabilities that doesn't allow it to be as versatile in teambuilding. Regardless, this should merit a rise to B, but no higher.

 

[Colbrushie]

Forretress from A to A-/B+

Simply put, Forretress is too passive of a mon and is worn down too easily. Other mons like Empoleon can whirlwind out dangerous threats but Forretress is setup fodder for a lot of things. Its niche in being a reliable switchin to Mega Beedrill, Mega Aerodactyl, and other threats is still notable, but its lack of reliable recovery outside of lefties means it can only perform its job so many times, and it still loses to the many wallbreakers that have dropped to UU recently (subsd gatr, mamo etc)

 

[YABO]

Forretress from A to A-/B+

Simply put, Forretress is too passive of a mon and is worn down too easily. Other mons like Empoleon can whirlwind out dangerous threats but Forretress is setup fodder for a lot of things. Its niche in being a reliable switchin to Mega Beedrill, Mega Aerodactyl, and other threats is still notable, but its lack of reliable recovery outside of lefties means it can only perform its job so many times, and it still loses to the many wallbreakers that have dropped to UU recently (subsd gatr, mamo etc)

Its actually a fairly solid answer to mamo.

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 121-144 (34.2 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Forretress Gyro Ball (93 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 222-264 (61.8 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(222, 224, 228, 230
so after rocks + a couple life orb hits youre doing your job. Not the best answer but it beats it in a pinch

 

[GULLY]

Mega Pert to A+
Incredibly versatile with being to run Rocks sets, Rain sets, and Sp.Def (sometimes with curse even). Its typing is some of the best defensive and offensively and poses a pretty immediate threat even type it comes in. Imo its the most versatile Mega in its class currently, bar Mega Aero which is a couple tiers above it, no other Mega can fit on every team type like Pert can.

 

[YABO]

Mega Pert to A+
Incredibly versatile with being to run Rocks sets, Rain sets, and Sp.Def (sometimes with curse even). Its typing is some of the best defensive and offensively and poses a pretty immediate threat even type it comes in. Imo its the most versatile Mega in its class currently, bar Mega Aero which is a couple tiers above it, no other Mega can fit on every team type like Pert can.

I may be biased because I love my Water/Ground types (seismi in ru <3) but in recent memory there hasn't been a team that I've built where I've said nah I don't want Mega Swampert here. Like you said it's just so versatile and able to pose an offensive and defensive threat no matter what set it's running. It's a core component of offense, stall, and balance.

 

[Venoxio]

I got a few nominations that I wanna speak out.
Salamance A+ -> S
Salamence can sweep most teams with given setup, and it can do so almost instantly with Moxie. It's other ability, Intimidate, is also good for the setting up, as it can make the opponents do less damage. It's typing is also great offensively and defensively (somewhat). Also, it's great in the current meta, with Scarf Mence revenge killing beasts such as Mega Aero and Mega Beedrill. Stealth Rocks

Rotom-H B-> B+
I mentioned this before in the previous thread, but this thing is actually really good. It is a decent check to Mamo, Mega Beedrill, and others, and it can fill many roles. It's typing is good too.

Azelf A- -> A
If you really think about it, Azelf can function extremely well on most teams. U-Turn is a thing, which gives it utility. It has a pretty good offensive type, and it has decent coverage. Taunt also gives it more utility. That move can also prevent Stealth Rocks/Spikes or whatever, and that can decide games.

Snorlax A-> A+
Snorlax has many, MANY things going for it. It has extremely good coverage, and only 1 weakness in Fighting. Also, it's great Special Defense allows it to run a physically bulky AV set extremely well, and not to mention high HP and Attack Stats. It is a beast under Trick Room too.