ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

[dingbat]

Take two, because I am complete garbdix with OPs. Again, Calloflochie signaling the green light here.

credits to Kitten Milk for the previous Viability Ranking OP
credits to Fluze for the artwork :]

Welcome to the UnderUsed Viability Thread! The preliminary rankings for each metagame (every three months, or any other important release) will be decided on by a handpicked group of people who have shown a deep and relevant understanding of the metagame and contributed to the last UU Viability thread. This group, though, is obviously subject to change.

So where do you come in? Well, after the preliminary rankings have been worked out by us, it's the entire community's job to refine those rankings to more accurately reflect the true viability of all relevant Pokemon in the UU metagame. Because our guesses will come before much meaningful experience using Pokemon will have occured, we can't be accurate enough without your help. Post about the Pokemon that you're experienced using, but try not to let your personal bias oversell any Pokemon.

Another key change is in the definition and variety of ranks available. While the S and A tiers still mostly reflect the best of the best Pokemon in the metagame, the B tier is now slightly more expansive, with the B+ tier representing Pokemon that are fairly common and threatening, and the B- tier representing Pokemon who fill minor, but relevant niches. Below this B tier, we have a new generic C tier that displays all Pokemon that are usable in UU, but don't have a niche that is appreciated by most teams in UU. There will now be a D-rank, however this will function like the E-rank of other viability threads, and will only include Pokemon that are currently in the UU tier. The broad-based lower tier serves as a measure to counteract the extreme subjectivity that occurs historically when discussing Pokemon that people have very little experience using.

credits to alexwolf for the base definitions

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UnderUsed metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

Mega Aerodactyl

Salamence

Suicune

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the UnderUsed metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

A+ Rank

Crobat

Entei

Heracross

Hydreigon

Mienshao

A Rank

Mega Aggron

Alakazam

Mega Beedrill

Mega Blastoise

Krookodile

Lucario

Nidoqueen

Mega Pidgeot

Shaymin

Swampert

Mega Swampert

Tentacruel

A- Rank

Mega Absol

Mega Ampharos

Azelf

Chandelure

Chesnaught

Cresselia

Empoleon

Florges

Forretress

Gligar

Infernape

Mega Sceptile

Mega Sharpedo

Slowking

Umbreon

Vaporeon

Yanmega

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are good in the UnderUsed metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. They can all still function very well given the right team support, but they have numerous flaws that minimize their impact on the tier.

B+ Rank

Mega Abomasnow

Arcanine

Aromatisse

Blissey

Cobalion

Darmanitan

Donphan

Froslass

Granbull

Hippowdon

Kyurem

Machamp

Nidoking

Reuniclus

Roserade

Rotom-C

Rotom-H

Snorlax

Toxicroak

Whimsicott

B Rank

Alomomola

Amoonguss

Doublade

Dragalge

Escavalier

Fletchinder

Haxorus

Heliolisk

Honchkrow

Jellicent

Noivern

Porygon-Z

Rhyperior

Sharpedo

Shuckle

Slurpuff

Stoutland

Tornadus

B- Rank

Braviary

Bronzong

Drapion

Dugtrio

Feraligatr

Galvantula

Mega Glalie

Goodra

Kingdra

Magneton

Meloetta

Pangoro

Porygon-2

Qwilfish

Seismitoad

Spiritomb

Togetic

Virizion

Weezing

Zoroark

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have small niches in the UnderUsed metagame, but have numerous notable flaws that prevent them from being effective the majority of the time. Pokemon in the C tier require extensive support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon, or their niches aren't all too useful for the current metagame.

Aerodactyl

Mega Audino

Mega Camerupt

Cloyster

Cofagrigus

Ditto

Durant

Emboar

Espeon

Exploud

Ferroseed

Flygon

Gastrodon

Golbat

Gourgeist (Super)

Mega Houndoom

Jolteon

Kabutops

Medicham

Mesprit

Mismagius

Moltres

Omastar

Quagsire

Shedinja

Mega Steelix

Tangrowth

Xatu

D rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are still in the UnderUsed tier, but are, simply put, ineffective in this meta.

Milotic

Scrafty

Trevenant

Past Changes

12/1 http://pastebin.com/LsZWTk85 (Prelim Ranks)
12/4 http://pastebin.com/durgLDMt
12/31 http://pastebin.com/LGbDteYa
2/2 http://pastebin.com/LgpfaP2g

 

[dingbat]

Resume talk, I can edit this one now :]

Edit: Mega Altaria, Mega Diancie, Togekiss, Volcarona, Staraptor, and Klefki have all been banned from UU. In the meanwhile, there will be a shit ton of rank shifting so chime in on where 'mons ought to move to.

 

[Chronobreak]

Ok, I'm thinking fletchinder can move to B+ now. The need to check fast fighting and flying types like mega lopunny and sceptile is pretty big, especially with the main fairy sweepers gone, making the demand for Flying type priority bigger than ever. I also can't believe that hydreigon is as low as A-, and should move up to A rank. Yes, the meta has been unkind to it, and there are still fighting types running amok. However, it can destroy just about everything else, with powerful STAB Draco meteors and Dark Pulses ripping through popular walls right now like bronzong, while physical variants can still demolish special walls, overall making it a very threatening force to be reckoned with.

 

[Venduria]

I'd like to nominate Hydreigon for A ranking. With 4 fairies getting the boot, Hydreigon has a lot more room to breathe and throw out powerful STABs. However, with Fighting types also getting much better after the quickbans, Hydreigon will still have trouble getting switches all the time. All in all although it won't reach XY UU dominance it is still threatening enough to need to keep in mind when teambuilding every team.

EDIT: welp, at least I'm not alone in this thought :p

 

[dodmen]

Mega Zam needs to hit S. Not much needs to be said. With Psyshock/Focus Blast/Shadow Ball|Energy Ball it can 2HKO the majority of the tier and still have room in its fourth slot for a plethora of options like CM (my favorite), Protect, Encore, Taunt, Sub, Disable, another coverage move or even Recover. It even has enough bulk to live all priority besides Sucker Punch, so relying on just that isn't enough either. Overall it's just extremely threatening and near impossible to switch into, and it's more than deserving of S rank imo.

 

[michaeloche]

I'm going to reiterate this from the end of the last thread. Someone else nominated Zygarde for A+, and I seconded it. With the recent bans, it really only has to worry about Bronzong and Whimsicott preventing its sweep, but it's not too hard to have a teammate, particularly a Fire type, take them out, not to mention both are still RU by usage iirc (although that may change soon). Add in not one, but two, great boosting options, good bulk for a sweeper, exceptional STAB coverage, and Extreme Speed, and you have a monster that can sweep with little or even no team support (depending on the opponent's team), fitting A+ rank to a T.

 

[Venduria]

I just realized Togetic isn't ranked. Now that its type combo is unique in UU (RIP Togekiss), can we at the very least put it in C-Rank? It walls big threats like Hydreigon and Zygarde, can provide great support in Defog/T-Wave/Heal Bell, and can Nasty Pass (or even dry pass) to set up a sweep. It has some trouble with top threats like M-Aero and Jirachi, but I think it is useful enough to warrant a ranking among the likes of Braviary, Durant, Golbat, and Zoroark.

PS: Bronzong is so happy that it is viable that it has the only moving sprite on the list. Definitely made me smile :)

 

[mertyville]

Here are a few overworld sprites you can draw into the viability ranking:

I am wondering why Swampert is ranked higher than Mega Swampert? I don't see what it does better that there is a 2 rank difference.

 

[Schpoonman]

To the best of my knowledge, Mega Swampert is a much more niche Pokemon than regular Swampert. You can run a regular bulky attacking Mega Swampert, but you are very very easily worn down without Leftovers. Meanwhile, Swampert can run a few more sets, like a Choice Band set (so that it hits harder than Mega Swampert ever can) or purely defensive, which Megapert can't effectively run (again, because of lack of Lefties). Mega Swampert is dangerous in the rain, but like it has been said, manual rain is kinda shitty in UU, so Mega Swampert suffers in viability.

 

[FullLifeGames]

So for the Viability Ranking, I need everyone to stay still!

Bronzong

... :/

 

[Bouff]

cress needs to be move up, the fact that it's at the same level as fucking flygon and weezing is pretty questionable. it's one of the few counters to the ever so present mega lopunny, and with CM it's able to serve as an extremely reliable win condition thanks to the fact that its one of the only said wincons that can fit on stall and beat suicune, who is extremely popular at the moment, even more so than all the way back in match when things like cb hera were starting to get popular. b+ is probably a good fit for it but it has to move up to at least b lol

i dunno why rotom-h is at a- either, especially considering togekiss is gone now. it gets practically raped by the likes of zygarde, pert, mega amph, etc, has no reliable recovery, and its typing leaves a lot to be desired, both offensively and defensively, as it has to run hp ice to get past zygarde (although thats a problem with other electric-types as well) on specs / scarf sets or trick (which is the most obvious thing to predict lol, you can see that shit coming from 50 miles away), and on defensive sets if zygarde manages to come in safely (which it can a fair amount of times as it only has to worry about will-o, and even then sets like DDRest which is severely underrated don't give a shit about it), it basically sets up for free. even with the large amount of hazard cleaners the sr weakness cripples it due to its lack of recovery and fairly large amount of defensive switch ins, so b+ / b

rotom-c and kyurem both need to move up as well, rotom-c has the niche of being able to fit on volt turn teams while checking virtually every single water-type in the tier, with the choice specs set 2hkoing pretty much anything anything thats not a dragon-type on offensive teams, thanks to its great coverage (unlike rotom-h), and scarf sets let it check flying-types like crobat, mega aero, and mega pidge, letting it serve as a pretty good revenge killer. hell it can even run a defensive set if it wants to considering its defensive typing is FAR more usable than rotom-h, but i won't really comment too much on it. b+

kyurem needs to move up almost sheerly because of the wallbreaking power given by the choice specs set, it has nearly no switch ins on offensive teams thanks to its good stab combination + ep, and its not as if defensive teams are safe from it either, as standard florges gets 2hkoed after rocks. it has a good amount of other sets that are viable as well, like the mixset which lures in blissey / florges (theoretically you could run both outrage and iron head but i wouldnt reccomend it) and then proceeds to break through defensive teams once those are removed, the subroost set which is a fairly reliable phazer thanks to its decent defensive typing, reliable recovery, and massive bulk, which makes it annoying for more passive teams thanks to its access to pressure. hell you can even use choice scarf if you want, but i think that was better when it had more breathing room than hydreigon. b+

there are other things i wanted to comment on but im hungry so ill let Omfuga do them

 

[Thanks Brock Obama]

So for the Viability Ranking, I need everyone to stay still!
... :/

Ease up on Bronzong, he's just so damn happy to be here.

 

[xMarth]

Nominating Machamp for A/A+ rank. Bandguts Machamp can 2hko the whole tier barring Granbull, which it still cripples with knock off, and has the bulk to come in multiple times in a match. AV set is very good as well and relying on Dynamic Punch is unfortunately also a viable strategy. It is pretty much unwallable in the hands of a competent player.

 

[mertyville]

Nominating Machamp for A/A+ rank. Bandguts Machamp can 2hko the whole tier barring Granbull, which it still cripples with knock off, and has the bulk to come in multiple times in a match. AV set is very good as well and relying on Dynamic Punch is unfortunately also a viable strategy. It is pretty much unwallable in the hands of a competent player.

How do you abuse Band + Guts if you rely on your opponent to get Guts activated?

 

[KaiseraAeros]

Move Ups(Important)

Darmanitan to B+ mostly because with Raptor gone it lost its major/only competition I can think of as "Brainless mon that only clicks one Move ever"

Mega Camerupt to B- its Extremely dangerous to face under TR and even outside of TR it has a Cool Niche of Checking Stuff like Raikou,Offensive Whimsicott,Jirachi(needs luck with the flinches) and a fair share of other threats depending on set.Also a Set of Earth Power/Fire Blast/Filler/Toxic can nail nearly everything in UU for big dmg and anything else that resist the other moves gets nailed by Toxic leaving only Blissey and Umbreon as safe switch ins due to their abilities

Hydreigon to A+ his Scarf Set is back at full force and while the fighting spam is really annoying and holds him back from his old S rank lord of UU status his ability of Forcing nearly the entire Offensive Tier out with the threat of its STABs+Coverage and its Good Typing+Bulk giving him really good switch in opportunities for a Offensive mon makes him worthy of the A+ Rank

Aromatise maybe Granbull to B+ basically Physically Defensive Fairys in a meta where Fighting types are on the rise and Hydreigon is back being a major threat=Good

Move Downs (Important)
Umbreon to B+/B indicate the meta shift from Fairy Oriented to Fighting Oriented basically still Great mon and should be checked out again when the meta changes

Galvantula to C honestly I don`t know why would you use it instead of Shuckle for SW ,Major reason I`m not asking for a straight up removal from the viability Rankings is the fact offensive sets can play around the fact that your oponent will expect you to set up SW whihc creates some cool mind games


Minor Changes:Machamp to A/A+ Best Physical Wallbreaker in the tier back to business,Pidgeot to A-(not 100% Convinced of it myself) basically Hurricane Heat Wave has only Mega Aero that switches in on it and the fact it has a 100% Free Moveslot gives it plenty of oportunitys to play with it although being slower than Mega Aero,Bunny and the 145 Megas does suck,Savior Doge and Cofagrigus to B- Honestly both are way above anything on the current C Ranks outside of the Rain Mons and TR Mons on their respective teams,Luke to A+ because shit is still dangerous

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY

Bronzong to Sooo happy for the last meta its Sprite Moves Rank

 

[Ununhexium]

How do you abuse Band + Guts if you rely on your opponent to get Guts activated?

It threatens status users, especially Scald-spamming bulky Water-types, so you have a crazy powerful Choice Band + Guts + STAB Close Combat to basically kill everything. It was sort of Heracross before OU stole it.

 

[Bouff]

I Type Like Jaden Smith So You Should Take Me Seriously

na but in all honesty, galvantula should probably stay in b-. it's in no way amazing or anything like that but the ability to threaten out nearly all the hazard cleaners in the tier, like empo, stoise, and bat / aero provided its sash stays intact is enough to keep it in b-, as well as the fact that it actually has an offensive presence unlike shuckle.

 

[KaiseraAeros]

I Type Like Jaden Smith So You Should Take Me Seriously

na but in all honesty, galvantula should probably stay in b-. it's in no way amazing or anything like that but the ability to threaten out nearly all the hazard cleaners in the tier, like empo, stoise, and bat / aero provided its sash stays intact is enough to keep it in b-, as well as the fact that it actually has an offensive presence unlike shuckle.

I still don`t see a solid case case to use Galvantula over Shuckle in SW Reliability due to the Sturdy+Mental Herb Combo and an Actual existing support via Encore more than makes up for its lack of Offensive Pressure in comparison to Vantula especially on a archtype that is built around abusing Offensive mons in the first place.in any case I still think its weiredo Galvantula only one rank 1 bellow shuckle when shuckle is your go to choice in basically 9 out of 10 times unless for some reason you see a crapload of Banded Mold Breaker Rampardos

Enough of that discussion we also Need to Rank Pangoro on C majorly because a Band and LO sets have excelent Coverage thanks to ORAS Tutor moves even though it still got massive flaws but at least its better than Scrafty lol

 

[Kink]

Taking a look at a couple of these rankings, I think we should heavily consider Gallade and Mega-Zam moving up to S-rank. Both of these mons have impacted ORAS immensely, and with the departure of a lot of their checks/counters, they have an opportunity to thrive in this meta. Very few things can stand up to the sheer versatility and wall-breaking power of mega-zam. Gallade can be moulded to fit on any team. While it has the small problem of minimal defensive bulk, one can opt for a drain punch bulk up set that works rather effectively (tested it myself, won about 4-5 straight at 1400+ ranking).

 

[Reign of Hail]

What is everyone's thoughts on Pangoro? It got a huge buff with all the tutor moves and got alot better in oras imo. I saw a video of Aim using it on a TR team and it looked alright.

 

[Pokemoon]

now that some fairies are gone, i can now nominate kingdra for b-/b rank, critdra is very scary if it gets set up and you don't have something to beat it, it can work as a late game rain cleanupper, as it can be paired up with mega swampert for rain (rain isn't that good any more tho).

EDIT: i do agree with mega gallade for s rank, been using it lately with the sd set and it's amazing (i'm happy that my favorite mega is good). if given a chance to set up just hit ghosts on the switch, and you're pretty much almost every time gonna get 1, probably most of the time 2 kills with mega gallade.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Bronsong should go back to b. After both alt and diancie we're banned, it pretty much lost it's point of existence.

Also whimsicott to a- cuz I have a feeling hydreigons coming back

 

[Bouff]

I still don`t see a solid case case to use Galvantula over Shuckle in SW Reliability due to the Sturdy+Mental Herb Combo and an Actual existing support via Encore more than makes up for its lack of Offensive Pressure in comparison to Vantula especially on a archtype that is built around abusing Offensive mons in the first place.in any case I still think its weiredo Galvantula only one rank 1 bellow shuckle when shuckle is your go to choice in basically 9 out of 10 times unless for some reason you see a crapload of Banded Mold Breaker Rampardos

Enough of that discussion we also Need to Rank Pangoro on C majorly because a Band and LO sets have excelent Coverage thanks to ORAS Tutor moves even though it still got massive flaws but at least its better than Scrafty lol

Shuckle's support movepool doesn't matter when, unlike in RU where it was broken as fuck, it can only set up one hazard before dying due to the large amount of offensive Pokemon in the tier that can hit it super effectively and 2HKO it thanks to its bad defensive typing making a waste of its massive bulk, like Mega Blastoise (which just so happens to be the best Rapid Spinner in the tier), Mega Aerodactyl, and Starmie, which are all common on Hyper / Bulky Offense. Also, in what sense does Encore "more than make up" its lack of offensive presence? It's not exactly to see it coming from three miles away, and there is virtually no reason to use it before both hazards set up (and when facing a good player, they'll only let one go up at most unless they're using Stall, which doesn't really care about Sticky Web) unless they're going to set up their own hazards, but as I mentioned, it's pretty easy to see when Shuckle's going to Encore.

Galvantula, on the other hand, is better because, as I mentioned, it can actually hit for decent damage, thanks to its good offensive typing / STABs which puts a huge dent on almost all of the hazard cleaners in the tier (keep in mind the fact that defog / rapid spinners are extremely common in uu), and it having a worse support movepool is irrelevant when all it needs to do in most battles is Sticky Web and then die if they lead off with a Choice Scarfer, and then get off a hit if they need to. Yeah, you have to use another slot for SR, but it's not as if there isn't a massive selection of setters in the tier anyway that support that kind of playstyle.

To be honest, I don't even think Sticky Web is that good of a playstyle anyway, considering the fact that Hydreigon will shit all over it nine times out of ten, and it's a skewed version of hyper offense, which isn't even /that/ good of a playstyle in UU, but if we're talking on what's the best way to use it, then I don't see Shuckle having too many positives over Galvantula, and as such they should at least remain in the same rank as each other, but I'd actually kind of prefer it if Galvantula moved up to B anyway.

 

[Choice Banned]

Here are all the megas listed + the codes I used dingbat

Glalie http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/362-mega.png

Steelix http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/208-mega.png

Camerupt http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/323-mega.png

Audino http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/531-mega.png

Sharpedo http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/319-mega.png

Sceptile http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/254-mega.png

Pidgeot http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/018-mega.png

Swampert http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/260-mega.png

Beedrill http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/015-mega.png

Gallade http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/475-mega.png

Lopunny http://media.pldh.net/pokexycons/428-mega.png

 

[SG52]

What is everyone's thoughts on Pangoro? It got a huge buff with all the tutor moves and got alot better in oras imo. I saw a video of Aim using it on a TR team and it looked alright.

I think Pangoro should be B/B- rank with the new buffs, its stat spread is very similar to Machamp's and while it lacks No Guard Dynamic Punch and a priority move it has Iron Fist Drain Punch, STAB Knock Off(strongest in UU; as strong as Bisharp's!) and Parting Shot which gives it great synergy with volt-turners or setup sweepers and keeping the momentum in your favor.

Pangoro can also run a good variety of sets like Life Orb, Choice Band, Choice Scarf and AV so its not very one dimensional.

Pangoro @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Parting Shot

Pangoro @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker/Iron Fist
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Superpower/Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot/Ice Punch
- Parting Shot

The banded set can 2HKO all of UU except for(if I'm not mistaken): Gligar, Nidoqueen, Hippowdon and Suicune and all of them would hate to take a knock off. I prefer Superpower as it works more like a hit-and-run as opposed to the Life Orb set and guarantees 2HKOs on some mons like Swampert. Scrappy isn't a bad ability but tbh isn't worth it when Chandelure is the only relevant ghost in UU. Ice Punch can be used to hit Gligar and defensive Nidoqueen who don't have much trouble switching in.

EVs are fairly simple: max attack, 144 Speed outspeeds uninvested base 75s (Florges) and the rest into HP, but overall the spread can be quite flexible and adjusted to outspeed certain threats.

Damage Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jirachi: 315-374 (77.9 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 369-437 (102.5 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Granbull: 213-252 (55.4 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Pangoro Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 144-171 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Superpower vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 241-285 (60 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 195-231 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 260-308 (68.4 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I hope this gives people more insight on Pangoro and if there's not enough support I'd like to see it on a UU research week.