OU CCAT: Zoroark [See Post #663]

[Jimera0]

Alright, looks like you guys have more or less the same outlook on this I do then.

Current core of Gyara/Hax/Zoro = good!
Alakazam and Scizor = good!
Azelf= not so good.

I suggest we finalize the selection of Alakzam and Scizor with a vote or something, then we're back to last Pokemon selection like we were before we realized the team was looking awfully sucky. This thread has slowed down a lot so it would be nice to get it on the road again.

 

[DrunkDemon]

Agreed. I doubt we're going to get much more discussion out of this.

 

[ginganinja]

I'll give this 6 more days then finalise a ballot. The reason im waiting this long is that according to the information some ppl just gave me, there exams should be finishing soon so more discussion is likely.

 

[Challenger]

This thread seems really dead.

I'm interested in seeing if you guys can make a Zoroark team work, but I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Seth Vilo]

This might just be me, but I believe one reason for this is the hyper offense style that made this thread die. Hyper offence has been described as throwing a bunch of things with similar counters together and collectively beating people to a pulp. This doesn't promote the strategy, team building, and synergy that CCAT's like to have, and certainly doesn't seem to be playing to Zoroark's unique strengths.

There is also the fact that BW2 comes out in 6 days, so people are caring less about this CCAT and just waiting for more information to come on what's going to happen to the metagame. Keldeo and Meloetta are on the way and people are theorymoning teams for that right now. There are likely going to be many tutor moves to wait for. Genesect is rumored to be coming soon. A guide scanned says Ghost no longer resists Bug (which is likely an error, but still kinda possible). Finally, another dark horse may appear out of nowhere. Remember in Platinum when Scizor got Bullet Punch and Salamence got Outrage? Never know. People are looking ahead, not behind at this CCAT.

I hate to say it, but I think this this CCAT round should be postponed or stopped. We have 6 days till BW2, so let's look ahead.

 

[Challenger]

Hyper offense is still probably the best playstyle to try and fit Zoroark into, though, imo.

Zoroark is trying to succeed in a metagame filled with priority, fighting moves, and bulk.....it hates all three of those things.

Zoroark can't switch into anything; that's really hindering it. Maybe if it WERE on a stall-type team with teammates to absorb its attacks, the team would have more success.

 

[bubbly]

Look, we really don't have a choice at this point but to stick with Gyara / Hax / Zoro / Scizor / Zam, pick a final member, then just test it out and "present findings" if you like. I still don't have the time to be active in the CCAT and I'll admit to losing interest (mainly because of the HO playstyle yeah), but I really think we should try to wrap it up and at least have a sense of purpose again.

 

[ginganinja]

Yes I quite agree with bubbly and Seth Vilo. I am rather disappointed that this died and its something that Pocket and I (well I have no idea on the activity on Pocket atm so maybe not him) will bear in mind if we every try this again. I would try a ballot but honestly, I doubt we would get enough interest to have a successful vote. I think I will have to close this thread since I really feel that there is not enough interest, there is little overall discussion going on, everyone is thinking forward to Black and White 2, some of us (like me) still have exams, and quite frankly, even if I skipped the ballot, we still have to discuss and vote on a final member, and then test (again) and make any changes we feel necessary. All of this (being realistic) is going to take at least a further 2 weeks, maybe even a month, by which time BW 2 will be in full swing.

I am genuinely sorry to all of you that put the effort into this and now will not see a finished product but I don't see very many options, nor do I want us to rush through the final stages to only receive a sub standard product. I will leave this open for a few days just in case someone has a compelling case to make, however, I think that cancelling this is the right thing to do.

Sorry.

 

[Pocket]

I'd hate all the quality discussions taken place in this thread go to waste. I am sorry for not being around to be useful - I have been overwhelmed with my irl situation atm.

I will PM ginganinja an idea that may be worthwhile for this thread.

 

[Pocket]

It's decided - ginganinja and I are going to make this a ladder race

Zoroark, due to its unique ability, is a pretty interesting Pokemon to use. What we want to get out of this thread is to find Zoroark's place in OU. I think it would be faster and funner to have everyone create their own teams that satisfies each of our own taste (so we don't need to disagree between some controversial choices made in our CCAT team), and have a ladder race. The one who peaks the highest would be the team that we would use as a final form to present to the RMT. There's no better way to prove whose right than by reaching the highest in the ladder :d

There is a minimal ladder rating of 1350, however!

Post your progress and ladder rating proofs on this thread.

Also here are some big discussion questions that need answers

• What is the best way to use Zoroark? (I read earlier that some of you have been experiencing Scarf Zoroark :o)
• What is the most effective Illusion partners of Zoroark in OU?
• What is the most effective team archetype that can capitalize Zoroark's capabilities?
• What support does Zoroark provides? What support does Zoroark requires?
• Are there any competitive advantage in using Zoroark? (aka Would you ever use Zoroark in a serious battle?)

Thanks for all of you who have helped sustained this project for so long (esp. ginganinja!) Let's end strong :D

 

[Jimera0]

Zoroark, due to its unique ability, is a pretty difficult Pokemon to use.

Nitpicking here, but it isn't Zorarks ability that makes it hard to use, it's all its other characteristics (fragility, typing, lack of high powered moves...) that make it hard to use. Illusion is really the only thing it has going for it in OU. Now Illusion is hard to use effectively, no doubt, but that's not why Zoroark is hard to use. If Terrakion had Illusion for example it'd make it EASIER to use, not harder.

Anyway I probably won't be laddering. I've always been better at the theory aspect of Pokemon than the actual practice of laddering, so there's little chance I'll manage to make it past 1350 at all. I just make too many silly mistakes in the heat of the moment. I got all sorts of other things holding my attention at the moment so I think I might leave this to others.

Good luck to all involved though, and I hope my contributions help you in your laddering!

 

[Katakiri]

Seeing how Zoroark got Trick in BW2, I think I'll hold off on laddering until that PO update drops because the value of Scarf Zoroark just jumped tremendously.

 

[Pocket]

Sorry for the necro-bump, but I just wanted to highlight the masterpiece that LucaroarkZ has created with Zoroark in the BW2 meta :d Trick makes choice Zoroark that much more potent. This team really portrays how to use Zoroark's mimicry to its fullest extent.

Congrats, LucaroarkZ, and thanks for sharing your team! You have accomplished what this CCAT has fallen short.

Lucaroarkz RMT

 

[DrunkDemon]

Maybe this idea is not feasible, idk, but I would really like to avoid Deoxys D + 5 sweepers unless there is no other option (its also dull, unimaginative, and I would consider the CCAT a failure if we ended up with a "standard" team that really took no real thought into making). Pocket and I ideally want the CCAT to inspire us to think outside the box, try new things, and ending up with (say) a Drag Mag team, or a team with Deoxys D + forgotten wonder sweeper + 4 other pokemon do not really reflect creative teambuilding.

Not trying to be a downer or anything - LucaroarkZ's team is well built and successful. I'm not sure it should be hailed as an example of what CCAT could and should have been, though.

 

[HolyAvatar]

DrunkDemon, I do not understand the usefulness of your post as you don't state any argument backing your opinion.

Now that the BW2 metagame is fairly stabilized can we move on to the next CCAT?

 

[DrunkDemon]

I'm saying that although Deoxys-D + Zoroark can be done well, as LucaroarkZ has shown, using Deoxys along with 5 offensive mons isn't particularly creative even with Zoroark being used, and I don't agree with Pocket that the team is an example of what the CCAT should have been like for that reason. Sorry if I was unclear.
EDIT: Post #666 certainly isn't making me look good though.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Well, on that team I use Deoxys-D because it just works so well on the team. It can set up SR and Spikes, hit Scizor with HP Fire, and Psycho Boost Breloom to death (Zoroark hates Scizor and Breloom). Normally I agree that Deo-D + 5 sweepers is very unoriginal, but I believe my team shows how you can do something to set it apart from other teams like that. It's kind of like rain offense, I think. Most of the time it's ridiculously unoriginal, but it can be creative.