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Project OU Next Best Thing V2 Week 4: Landorus-T
- Thread starter MANNAT
- Start date
- Status
The voting period has ended! AV Zygarde by Finchinator has won this week convincingly!
Week 2's Pokemon will be Greninja! Greninja have a very expansive movepool that's sure to cause some very interesting sets. The deadline to submit sets will be Friday, March 3rd and the voting period will end on Monday, March 5th. I'm looking forward to see what you guys can come up with this time around because this is a very interesting one!
Week 2's Pokemon will be Greninja! Greninja have a very expansive movepool that's sure to cause some very interesting sets. The deadline to submit sets will be Friday, March 3rd and the voting period will end on Monday, March 5th. I'm looking forward to see what you guys can come up with this time around because this is a very interesting one!
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Had do this on my phone so this might be a bit messy.
Greninja (M) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 152 Atk / 104 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dig
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Gunk Shot
The idea behind this is pretty simple; Z Dig allows you to reliably OHKO Toxapex and AV Magearna after Rocks damage, both of which no other Gren set can do. It can also potentially snipe a Heatran or a Tyranitar trying to catch a Scarf Greninja.
The rest of the set is pretty standard. Ice Beam is your most reliable and spammable move, HP Fire complements Beam very well, allows you to revenge kill Mega Scizor and does heavy damage to Ferrothorn. The last slot can be something else but Gunk Shot OHKOs Bulu, Lele, threatens Clefable and does more to Tangrowth than Ice Beam.
Greninja (M) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 152 Atk / 104 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dig
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Gunk Shot
The idea behind this is pretty simple; Z Dig allows you to reliably OHKO Toxapex and AV Magearna after Rocks damage, both of which no other Gren set can do. It can also potentially snipe a Heatran or a Tyranitar trying to catch a Scarf Greninja.
The rest of the set is pretty standard. Ice Beam is your most reliable and spammable move, HP Fire complements Beam very well, allows you to revenge kill Mega Scizor and does heavy damage to Ferrothorn. The last slot can be something else but Gunk Shot OHKOs Bulu, Lele, threatens Clefable and does more to Tangrowth than Ice Beam.
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alright fam squad
you've got your standard scarf seeming greninja
but it's really all out pummeling low kick chansey lure greninja
Greninja @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
aight so the idea here is that chansey answers both ash ninja and regular scarf ninja pretty well, if u can bluff scarf chansey can switch in on a gunk shot and take like ~30% normally aka that shit is gonna bounce
176 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 195-231 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
but then chansey's gonna stay in and start softboiled/toxic/seismic tossing you thinking you're locked into gunk shot.
then you reveal z low kick and blow that thing all the way to the shadow realm, with gunk shot damage you almost always 2hko the chansey instantly
176 Atk Protean Greninja All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 522-614 (74.3 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
the thing is that even w/ ice beam dmg and rocks dmg you have a pretty good chance of killing chansey
low kick is also useful for stuff like tran (which normally walls the fuck out of scarf ninja w/o hydro), ttar, ferro, etc
176 Atk Protean Greninja All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 374-444 (96.8 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
176 Atk Protean Greninja All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 302-356 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
you've got your standard scarf seeming greninja
but it's really all out pummeling low kick chansey lure greninja
Greninja @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
aight so the idea here is that chansey answers both ash ninja and regular scarf ninja pretty well, if u can bluff scarf chansey can switch in on a gunk shot and take like ~30% normally aka that shit is gonna bounce
176 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 195-231 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
but then chansey's gonna stay in and start softboiled/toxic/seismic tossing you thinking you're locked into gunk shot.
then you reveal z low kick and blow that thing all the way to the shadow realm, with gunk shot damage you almost always 2hko the chansey instantly
176 Atk Protean Greninja All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 522-614 (74.3 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
the thing is that even w/ ice beam dmg and rocks dmg you have a pretty good chance of killing chansey
low kick is also useful for stuff like tran (which normally walls the fuck out of scarf ninja w/o hydro), ttar, ferro, etc
176 Atk Protean Greninja All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 374-444 (96.8 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
176 Atk Protean Greninja All-Out Pummeling (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 302-356 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
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Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn
Banded Ash-Greninja seemed pretty funny when it got Gunk Shot since it gave it a way to bypass some common checks i.e. Magearna, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Fini (it's an unmon rn yes but still cool you get by it), etc. Set is as "standard" as it could be for this fucking atrocity: Waterfall for STAB, Ice Punch to feign some sort of coverage, Gunk Shot to bypass some would be checks, and U-Turn so the mon isn't deadweight. Night Slash could probably be slashed somewhere, but I don't think there is room for it even though it'd be a good move on it.
Here's a wall of calcs to showcase some strengths and weaknesses:
As shown this set really loses out on what standard Specs sets allow it to do in terms of having the ability to beat Celesteela easily, probably also loses to Skarmory. Loses 100% of the time to Toxapex as well and hates Ferrothorn more than it needs to. I am also not sure how you plan on ever getting Battle Bond.
Gains the ability to crush AV Magearna's dream of checking you, more reliably two-shots Amoonguss, beats AV Bulu and Tang without needing to hope for flinches, beats Chansey, etc etc.
Overall this set is ass and you shouldn't use it.
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn
Banded Ash-Greninja seemed pretty funny when it got Gunk Shot since it gave it a way to bypass some common checks i.e. Magearna, Tapu Bulu, Tapu Fini (it's an unmon rn yes but still cool you get by it), etc. Set is as "standard" as it could be for this fucking atrocity: Waterfall for STAB, Ice Punch to feign some sort of coverage, Gunk Shot to bypass some would be checks, and U-Turn so the mon isn't deadweight. Night Slash could probably be slashed somewhere, but I don't think there is room for it even though it'd be a good move on it.
Here's a wall of calcs to showcase some strengths and weaknesses:
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 189-223 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 133-157 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Tangrowth: 342-404 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 374-442 (109 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
you don't do damage to it with specs lol
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 752-888 (219.2 - 258.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 99-117 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 282-333 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 193-228 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 78.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 171-202 (43 - 50.8%) -- 55.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 156 SpD Celesteela: 259-306 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 214-254 (55.8 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 331-391 (86.4 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 336-396 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Amoonguss: 190-225 (44 - 52.2%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 133-157 (36.6 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Tangrowth: 342-404 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 165-195 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Tapu Fini: 374-442 (109 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
you don't do damage to it with specs lol
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 752-888 (219.2 - 258.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 99-117 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 282-333 (40.1 - 47.4%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 12 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 193-228 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 78.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 171-202 (43 - 50.8%) -- 55.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 156 SpD Celesteela: 259-306 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 214-254 (55.8 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 331-391 (86.4 - 102%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Greninja-Ash Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 336-396 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Amoonguss: 190-225 (44 - 52.2%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
As shown this set really loses out on what standard Specs sets allow it to do in terms of having the ability to beat Celesteela easily, probably also loses to Skarmory. Loses 100% of the time to Toxapex as well and hates Ferrothorn more than it needs to. I am also not sure how you plan on ever getting Battle Bond.
Gains the ability to crush AV Magearna's dream of checking you, more reliably two-shots Amoonguss, beats AV Bulu and Tang without needing to hope for flinches, beats Chansey, etc etc.
Overall this set is ass and you shouldn't use it.
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Greninja @ Psychium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Extrasensory
- Gunk Shot / Spikes
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Ice Beam / Spikes
Psychium Z Greninja is a solid option that allows it to easily dispose of Toxapex for teammates like Volcarona, Zard Y etc. without relying on Psychic Terrain to do so, preventing it from scouting for the ESense with recover and outlasting Gren that way. It's also nice for a few other Pokemon, one-shotting Mega Venusaur after SR and removing AV Amoonguss if it switches into SR+Gunk Shot/Ice Beam. I'm sure it targets other shit too but these are the Big Three.
V.S. Toxapex:
- 252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 252-296 (83.1 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
- 252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 306-360 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 4 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 157-186 (36.4 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 160+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 152-182 (35.2 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 160+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 270-320 (62.6 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Edit: Felixx brings up a valid point wrt TSpikes on this set in his response to my post; that said, Gren carrying TSpikes w/o spikes isn't usually very good outside of select teams so I'm still not gonna slash it.
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specs regular gren
Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump / Spikes / U-turn
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power Fire
- Ice Beam
This set ohkoes ferro, hits av magearna harder and does a notable chunk to pex while also hitting other mons harder. Hydro hits tran, esense hits venu and pex, hp fire hits ferro, ice beam hits grounds and grasses. Dark pulse can be used for good neutral damage against everything but hits no notable targets.
Greninja @ Choice Specs
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump / Spikes / U-turn
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power Fire
- Ice Beam
This set ohkoes ferro, hits av magearna harder and does a notable chunk to pex while also hitting other mons harder. Hydro hits tran, esense hits venu and pex, hp fire hits ferro, ice beam hits grounds and grasses. Dark pulse can be used for good neutral damage against everything but hits no notable targets.
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Greninja @ Normalium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Happy Hour
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
Z Happy Hour gives Greninja a +1 to all of his stats, allowing him to act as a sweeper. The coverage on this set can definitely be tinkered with; I mainly went for moves that hit common defensive measures (Extrasensory for Toxapex, Mega Venusaur and Keldeo, Hidden Power Fire for Ferrothorn and to a lesser extent Mega Scizor, Ice Beam for fat grasses like Tapu Bulu, Amoonguss and Tangrowth). This set fits best on forms of HO. Other coverage options include but are not limited to: Grass Knot (hits Gastrodon), Hidden Power Electric (hits Pelipper and Mantine), Dark Pulse, Hydro Pump etc.
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 186-222 (61.3 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (unfortunately only kills if pex is weakened, otherwise you get hazed)
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 228-270 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 362-428 (112 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 336-400 (95.4 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor-Mega: 496-588 (144.6 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 246-290 (71.7 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (if bulu isn't in range of ice beam, click hp fire first as it allows you to resist horn leech + wood hammer, then click ice beam)
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Amoonguss: 320-380 (74.2 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 278-330 (68.8 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 228-270 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 362-428 (112 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 336-400 (95.4 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor-Mega: 496-588 (144.6 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 56 SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 246-290 (71.7 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (if bulu isn't in range of ice beam, click hp fire first as it allows you to resist horn leech + wood hammer, then click ice beam)
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Amoonguss: 320-380 (74.2 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 278-330 (68.8 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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Felixx
I'm back.
Greninja @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 160 Atk / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Bounce
- Hydro Pump / Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Spikes / Taunt / HP Fire
This Greninja set is designed to lure in Tapu Bulu and take it out using Z-Bounce, the attack investment is for OHKOing Bulu but not really needed, just showing the EVs if you want to OHKO it. Once Bulu is succesfully lured and taken out, teammates such as Koko, Lele and Zygarde are able to come it and take advantage. Bounce is the main point of the set, allowing Gren to nuke any fat grasses that may try to switch in, Hydro Pump works well in combination with Z-Bounce, but Ice Beam has the perks of forcing out Zapdos and being able to spike properly since Hydro can't 2HKO without chip, and preventing Zygarde from setting up a DD on you. E-sense hits Pex and in tandem with taunt or E-sense flinch you can force it out, phys def variants don't take 2 with rocks, spikes lets you wear down AV Mag, while HP Fire lures Ferro. Overall the set is okay, but hard to justify over just running Gunk, but Z-Bounce does almost half to sp. def Ferro and nukes AV Amoonguss and M-Venu harder than E-sense so there's that.
160 Atk Protean Greninja Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 344-408 (100.2 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
160 Atk Protean Greninja Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Tangrowth: 314-372 (77.7 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
160 Atk Protean Greninja Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 350-414 (81.2 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
160 Atk Protean Greninja Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 302-356 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
160 Atk Protean Greninja Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Tangrowth: 314-372 (77.7 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
160 Atk Protean Greninja Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 350-414 (81.2 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
160 Atk Protean Greninja Supersonic Skystrike (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 302-356 (83.1 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
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Felixx
I'm back.
I've used a set exactly like this on HO, but the plan was to t-spike up and then Z-Extrasensory to get rid of the t-spike absorber, so I think you could list that in the options
Greninja @ Psychium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Extrasensory
- Gunk Shot / Spikes
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Ice Beam / Spikes
Psychium Z Greninja is a solid option that allows it to easily dispose of Toxapex for teammates like Volcarona, Zard Y etc. without relying on Psychic Terrain to do so, preventing it from scouting for the ESense with recover and outlasting Gren that way. It's also nice for a few other Pokemon, one-shotting Mega Venusaur after SR and removing AV Amoonguss if it switches into SR+Gunk Shot/Ice Beam. I'm sure it targets other shit too but these are the Big Three.
V.S. Toxapex:
V.S. Mega Venusaur:
- 252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 252-296 (83.1 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
V.S. AV Amoonguss:
- 252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 156+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 306-360 (84.2 - 99.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 4 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 157-186 (36.4 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 160+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 152-182 (35.2 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Protean Greninja Shattered Psyche (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 160+ SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 270-320 (62.6 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
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work up
HCJB
Banned deucer.
Scarf Grass Knot Gren
Greninja (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 236 Atk / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Grass Knot
The EVs mean it combats several other offensive playstyles to pave the way for your own HO threats, in addition to outspeeding them (e.g. Mega Swampert in the Rain, non-Scarf Koko - also often on Rain, Scarf Kartana, Scarf Lele, Mega Alakazam, +1 Spe Zygarde, +1 Spe Volcarona after Rocks, Scarf Garchomp, Ash-Greninja after Rocks, Zard-Y after Rocks). It also just about checks Mega-Lopunny, if they go for HJK as you become Poison type, which I would say when faced with a Greninja can happen a fair bit. The set is forced male to confuse it with Ash-Greninja.
To get specifically into the EVs, they OHKO Ash-Greninja after Rocks (making you a soft counter, but you won't want to be switching into too many Specs attacks), OHKO Mega Alakazam, and OHKO Scarf Kartana after Rocks. You can run more SpAtk to OHKO Scarf Kartana cleanly without Rocks, but then you can't OHKO Ash-Greninja or Mega Alakazam as often, so for me the choice is clear so long as there's any other priority or fast speed control on your team - and it's 62.5% chance even without Rocks in play. The nature is to better handle Ash-Greninja SpDef hits by leaving it neutral, while also maximising speed and retaining neutral Atk and SpAtk.
You need another teammate for Unburden-Seed Hawlucha, but otherwise this is the very definition of HO speed-control glue, hard counter-playing a lot of other offense such as Rain, Psychic Spam and offensive mons like Scarf Kartana and Specs Ash-Greninja. Scarf isn't anything new, but the EV spread and the choice of Grass Knot to really hamper Rain (so-long MVP Mega-Swampert) are what make this set worthwhile. Takes so much pressure off, really packs a punch as an offensive pivot (extremely fast STAB U-turn) and is a worthy late game cleaner too.
Greninja (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 236 Atk / 20 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Grass Knot
The EVs mean it combats several other offensive playstyles to pave the way for your own HO threats, in addition to outspeeding them (e.g. Mega Swampert in the Rain, non-Scarf Koko - also often on Rain, Scarf Kartana, Scarf Lele, Mega Alakazam, +1 Spe Zygarde, +1 Spe Volcarona after Rocks, Scarf Garchomp, Ash-Greninja after Rocks, Zard-Y after Rocks). It also just about checks Mega-Lopunny, if they go for HJK as you become Poison type, which I would say when faced with a Greninja can happen a fair bit. The set is forced male to confuse it with Ash-Greninja.
To get specifically into the EVs, they OHKO Ash-Greninja after Rocks (making you a soft counter, but you won't want to be switching into too many Specs attacks), OHKO Mega Alakazam, and OHKO Scarf Kartana after Rocks. You can run more SpAtk to OHKO Scarf Kartana cleanly without Rocks, but then you can't OHKO Ash-Greninja or Mega Alakazam as often, so for me the choice is clear so long as there's any other priority or fast speed control on your team - and it's 62.5% chance even without Rocks in play. The nature is to better handle Ash-Greninja SpDef hits by leaving it neutral, while also maximising speed and retaining neutral Atk and SpAtk.
20 SpA Protean Greninja Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert-Mega: 420-496 (123.1 - 145.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 356-420 (126.6 - 149.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
20 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 244-288 (93.8 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
232 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 392-464 (139.5 - 165.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232 Atk Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 254-302 (101.1 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
20 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 424-504 (118.4 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 220-261 (70.7 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
20 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 468-552 (130.7 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232 Atk Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 252-296 (88.4 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
232 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 190-225 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
232 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 163-193 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 356-420 (126.6 - 149.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
20 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 244-288 (93.8 - 110.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
232 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 392-464 (139.5 - 165.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232 Atk Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 254-302 (101.1 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
20 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 424-504 (118.4 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 220-261 (70.7 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
20 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 468-552 (130.7 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232 Atk Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 252-296 (88.4 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
232 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 190-225 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
232 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny-Mega: 163-193 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 111-132 (38.9 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 201-237 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 185-218 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 169-199 (59.2 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (poison type)
...that's about it, as you're very fast.
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 201-237 (70.5 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 185-218 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Greninja: 169-199 (59.2 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (poison type)
...that's about it, as you're very fast.
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Greninja @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Snatch
- Hydro Pump
- Gunk Shot
- Dark Pulse
Since all the good lure sets were taken, here's a fun albeit niche mini-cleaner set for Greninja. To the uninitiated, Z-Snatch provides a clean +2 Speed boost, while stealing opponents recovery / setup move on the sam turn. This effectively turns Greninja into a very fun mini-cleaner, as it allows it to steal Recover from walls, and Calm Mind from Magearna, while gaining enough speed to not be able to be revenge-killed. Afterwards, thanks to its boosted speed, it can clean weakened teams with its Protean boosted moves. Not much else to say about this set, other than that this set only functions as a late-game cleaner and not much else. Also, if using Z-Snatch isn't beneficial in a game, Z- Dark Pulse can be used instead.
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Acro Gren
Greninja @ Poison Barb / Power Herb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Fling / Dig
- Acrobatics
- U-Turn / Spikes / Low Kick / Ice Beam
All the good sets were taken, so I went for an amusing gimmick. With this set, the idea is that the poison barb powers up gunk shot, which is the move you will spam. You should always feign another set while using this, feigning ashgren lures bulu/fini/kinda lele so you can take it out with gunk, while feigning scarf lures MVenu and Amoonguss, who you take out with acrobatics after fling. The last slot is utility, U-Turn and spikes are the best options as this gren has a lot of switch ins so taking advantage of them by gaining momentum or getting hazards is advisable, but if you want low kick for steels like Tran or ice beam for lando, they work too. Fling can also be replaced with power herb dig, which takes out Tran and does a chunk to Mage and Pex as well. This set is far from the most effective, but it's very amusing and can bag some surprise KOs.
Greninja @ Poison Barb / Power Herb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Fling / Dig
- Acrobatics
- U-Turn / Spikes / Low Kick / Ice Beam
All the good sets were taken, so I went for an amusing gimmick. With this set, the idea is that the poison barb powers up gunk shot, which is the move you will spam. You should always feign another set while using this, feigning ashgren lures bulu/fini/kinda lele so you can take it out with gunk, while feigning scarf lures MVenu and Amoonguss, who you take out with acrobatics after fling. The last slot is utility, U-Turn and spikes are the best options as this gren has a lot of switch ins so taking advantage of them by gaining momentum or getting hazards is advisable, but if you want low kick for steels like Tran or ice beam for lando, they work too. Fling can also be replaced with power herb dig, which takes out Tran and does a chunk to Mage and Pex as well. This set is far from the most effective, but it's very amusing and can bag some surprise KOs.
Anti-Setup Greninja
Greninja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Haze
This Greninja is pretty much the standard scarf set, except with haze instead of the usual spikes. Haze allows Greninja to shut down, in addition to zygarde, volcarona, charizard, Landorus, and dragonite, sucker punch users such as Mega Mawile which could otherwise ohko Gren with highly boosted priority (bc sucker punch won’t hit you when you haze) and bulkier setup sweepers such as clefable or cm mega sabeleye whom Gren could not normally revenge kill. After hazing a mon, you can switch to one of your breakers or the pex or something to stop it from setting up again. Also note that you will not usually die when hazing stored power mons like Mega Latias because they will be stripped of their boosts and being left with a meager 20 bp stored power. Definitely a niche set, but can be extremely useful on teams that are weak to the mentioned mons.
Greninja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Haze
This Greninja is pretty much the standard scarf set, except with haze instead of the usual spikes. Haze allows Greninja to shut down, in addition to zygarde, volcarona, charizard, Landorus, and dragonite, sucker punch users such as Mega Mawile which could otherwise ohko Gren with highly boosted priority (bc sucker punch won’t hit you when you haze) and bulkier setup sweepers such as clefable or cm mega sabeleye whom Gren could not normally revenge kill. After hazing a mon, you can switch to one of your breakers or the pex or something to stop it from setting up again. Also note that you will not usually die when hazing stored power mons like Mega Latias because they will be stripped of their boosts and being left with a meager 20 bp stored power. Definitely a niche set, but can be extremely useful on teams that are weak to the mentioned mons.
Banded Greninja
babby genesect (Greninja) @ Choice Band
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Shadow Sneak / Spikes
For lack of anything good to post, a set for people like me who can't predict for shit and want the safe, predictable damage of U-turn. Ice Beam OHKOs all non-Yache Lando despite the nature. Gunk Shot is there because this set needs a high BP move, and it 1HKOs spdef Tang and 2HKOs mixed Chansey if luck is on your side. Shadow Sneak is mostly to make up for the lack of scarf, but it does let you tech opposing U-turn spammers like Koko, doing a good chunk of damage while taking almost nothing in return.
babby genesect (Greninja) @ Choice Band
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Shadow Sneak / Spikes
For lack of anything good to post, a set for people like me who can't predict for shit and want the safe, predictable damage of U-turn. Ice Beam OHKOs all non-Yache Lando despite the nature. Gunk Shot is there because this set needs a high BP move, and it 1HKOs spdef Tang and 2HKOs mixed Chansey if luck is on your side. Shadow Sneak is mostly to make up for the lack of scarf, but it does let you tech opposing U-turn spammers like Koko, doing a good chunk of damage while taking almost nothing in return.
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Marigold
formerly KuraiTenshi26
Z-Work Up Greninja
Protean Greninja boasts itself as one of OU's premier mixed attackers. This got me thinking... is there a move that bolsters this strength? Introducing... Z-Work Up Greninja! Z-Work Up gives +2 atk and +1 spa, letting Greninja reach a whopping 578 atk. This lets Gren use some physical moves that would normally be rather underwhelming.
Water/Fighting is really strong coverage reminiscent of Keldeo. When paired with poison coverage, only Toxapex can deal with the moveset (and Toxapex beats near every gren set anyway, so whatever). +2 Gunk Shot is really damn strong and rips through most typical Greninja counterplay, such as...
Low Kick is for steels that would be immune to GK.
Toxapex is obviously still a problem. Pair with Magma Storm Heatran or some other Pex answer, and you should be good to go!
EDIT: added low kick calcs
Greninja @ Normalium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Work Up
- Waterfall / Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Work Up
- Waterfall / Ice Beam
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick
Protean Greninja boasts itself as one of OU's premier mixed attackers. This got me thinking... is there a move that bolsters this strength? Introducing... Z-Work Up Greninja! Z-Work Up gives +2 atk and +1 spa, letting Greninja reach a whopping 578 atk. This lets Gren use some physical moves that would normally be rather underwhelming.
Water/Fighting is really strong coverage reminiscent of Keldeo. When paired with poison coverage, only Toxapex can deal with the moveset (and Toxapex beats near every gren set anyway, so whatever). +2 Gunk Shot is really damn strong and rips through most typical Greninja counterplay, such as...
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Tangrowth: 402-474 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 100 Def Amoonguss: 370-436 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 246-289 (67.7 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 414-488 (120.3 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Mantine: 394-465 (105.6 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 418-493 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 100 Def Amoonguss: 370-436 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 88 Def Venusaur-Mega: 246-289 (67.7 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 414-488 (120.3 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 52 Def Mantine: 394-465 (105.6 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 418-493 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Low Kick is for steels that would be immune to GK.
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 464-548 (165.1 - 195%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 255-300 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 402-474 (114.2 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 600-708 (155.4 - 183.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 255-300 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 402-474 (114.2 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Protean Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 600-708 (155.4 - 183.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Toxapex is obviously still a problem. Pair with Magma Storm Heatran or some other Pex answer, and you should be good to go!
EDIT: added low kick calcs
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The voting phase has started!
Nominees:
This voting phase will end on Monday, March 5
Nominees:
I'll kick off the voting by voting Z-Dig
This voting phase will end on Monday, March 5
z-work up has me shook
Z Dig.
- Status