Resource OU No Mega Viability Ranking Thread

[eden]

Is there a reason why Latias is A while Latios is A+? Especially seeing as how Landorus-I and Keldeo are extremely important I want to nominate Latias for a rise in rank :). Also Reflect Type Latias with Leftovers is an extrememly consistent Landorus-I+Keldeo check :). Would anybody mind telling me if vanilla Venusaur is at all viable in this metagame for checking Azumarril(yet another S-Rank threat) or is Amoongus(i.e Regenerator) so much better? Also is double genie a viable play style here? Just a few thoughts N_N

 

[DarkNostalgia]

Latias is a subrank lower than Latios because it is more exploitable and one-dimensional. Latios is more versatile, capable of running many different sets such as Life Orb (which contains variants such as Roost, Defog, 2 Attacks, Roost + 3 Attacks, Defog + 3 Attacks etc.), Choice Scarf, Calm Mind (which is a great set btw), and Memento Dual Screens. Latias has worse offensive presence than Latios, and it is much less versatile as it basically only has one set, which is the bulky Life Orb Defog one, making it much easier to exploit. It's strapped for moveslots, in the sense that dual STABs + Healing Wish/Roost + Defog is a necessity, which means there is no room most of the time for coverage options such as Earthquake, Hidden Power, or Shadow Ball. The bulk it has and the sheer utility in Healing Wish and Reflect Type grant it enough niches to not be outclassed by Latios, which is why I think Latias should stay one subrank below Latios.

edit: fuck thought this was the vr thread w/ megas

 

[SketchUp]

Is there a reason why Latias is A while Latios is A+? Especially seeing as how Landorus-I and Keldeo are extremely important I want to nominate Latias for a rise in rank :). Also Reflect Type Latias with Leftovers is an extrememly consistent Landorus-I+Keldeo check :). Would anybody mind telling me if vanilla Venusaur is at all viable in this metagame for checking Azumarril(yet another S-Rank threat) or is Amoongus(i.e Regenerator) so much better? Also is double genie a viable play style here? Just a few thoughts N_N

The reason Regular Venusaur is ranked on the regular viability ranking list is because of its Chlorophyll sweeper set. Sun is very mediocre in this metagame so Venusaur does not deserve a ranking. Amoonguss is indeed a good way to check Azumarill and Keldeo but there is also Slowbro, Celebi, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W and Skarmory who are good checks to Azumarill. There are not many good offensive switchins to Azumarill but Toxicroak, Thundurus, Breloom, Serperior and Magnezone are decent checks.

On another note, I want to nominate Gyarados to A+. Dragon Dance, who is by far the best set of Gyarados, is not only an extremely dangerous sweeper, who is only stopped by a few pokemon like Ferrothorn, Rotom-W and Chesnaught with Spiky Shield, but it is also a very good offensive pivot, being able to switch into many pokemon because of its awesome typing and nice bulk. A big factor why I think Gyarados deserves to go to A+ besides its bulk and offensive capabilities is the diversity the DD set has. DD / Waterfall / Bounce / Substitute is the most common but Earthquake to hit pokemon such as Raikou and Empoleon, Taunt to prevent Whirlwind and status and Thunder Wave to threaten out faster pokemon and find setup opportunities are also good options. Leftovers is the most common item for very good reasons but Gyarados can also run Lum Berry to prevent Gyarados and Klefki from Thunder Waving or Charti Berry to prevent Terrakion and Kabutops from revenge killing you (while it is also easier to set up against Scarf Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Landorus-T)

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

The reason Regular Venusaur is ranked on the regular viability ranking list is because of its Chlorophyll sweeper set. Sun is very mediocre in this metagame so Venusaur does not deserve a ranking. Amoonguss is indeed a good way to check Azumarill and Keldeo but there is also Slowbro, Celebi, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W and Skarmory who are good checks to Azumarill. There are not many good offensive switchins to Azumarill but Toxicroak, Thundurus, Breloom, Serperior and Magnezone are decent checks.

On another note, I want to nominate Gyarados to A+. Dragon Dance, who is by far the best set of Gyarados, is not only an extremely dangerous sweeper, who is only stopped by a few pokemon like Ferrothorn, Rotom-W and Chesnaught with Spiky Shield, but it is also a very good offensive pivot, being able to switch into many pokemon because of its awesome typing and nice bulk. A big factor why I think Gyarados deserves to go to A+ besides its bulk and offensive capabilities is the diversity the DD set has. DD / Waterfall / Bounce / Substitute is the most common but Earthquake to hit pokemon such as Raikou and Empoleon, Taunt to prevent Whirlwind and status and Thunder Wave to threaten out faster pokemon and find setup opportunities are also good options. Leftovers is the most common item for very good reasons but Gyarados can also run Lum Berry to prevent Gyarados and Klefki from Thunder Waving or Charti Berry to prevent Terrakion and Kabutops from revenge killing you (while it is also easier to set up against Scarf Tyranitar, Hippowdon and Landorus-T)

While i have not played sun I've seen a few replays with sun teams on the upper ladder. Honestly Venusaur and ninetales in d rank doesn't seem that outlandish

Supporting gyarados for A+ as it is one of the best sweepers. Ferro gets beat by sub sets and chestnaught even gets lured by power herb bounce sets.

 

[Mango Smoothie]

While i have not played sun I've seen a few replays with sun teams on the upper ladder. Honestly Venusaur and ninetales in d rank doesn't seem that outlandish

Supporting gyarados for A+ as it is one of the best sweepers. Ferro gets beat by sub sets and chestnaught even gets lured by power herb bounce sets.

Gyarados doesn't need Power Herb+Bounce to beat Chesnaught, if it runs Taunt it can stop Leech Seed/Spiky, and proceed to set up on Chesnaught not running Wood Hammer (or set up on them if you're willing to take some damage).
-1 0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 109-130 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I'm also in support of Gyarados rising, defensively its bulky and checks a lot of higher ranked threats rank threats and offensively it more than pulls its weight.

 

[SketchUp]

Gyarados doesn't need Power Herb+Bounce to beat Chesnaught, if it runs Taunt it can stop Leech Seed/Spiky, and proceed to set up on Chesnaught not running Wood Hammer (or set up on them if you're willing to take some damage).
-1 0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 109-130 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I'm also in support of Gyarados rising, defensively its bulky and checks a lot of higher ranked threats rank threats and offensively it more than pulls its weight.

Taunt + Bounce also deals with Chesnaught indeed but Power Herb still has the niche that you have room left for Sub / EQ. Pokemon such as Manaphy can also use the 1st turn of Bounce to set up a Tail Glow but Power Herb prevents this and Gyara kills Manaphy with Bounce + EQ. Power Herb is just a gimmicky lure but there are situations where it has its use, especially when your opponent doesn't expect it.

 

[Firebird101]

I know I'm kinda dropping the gun here but shouldn't Salamence's rank be reevaluated? Now that it doesn't have to compete against all the mega dragon dancers it has become more viable option I think and it ain't bad from my experience. Though I guess it goes for every mon that had to compete against mega evo's.

 

[Martin]

I know I'm kinda dropping the gun here but shouldn't Salamence's rank be reevaluated? Now that it doesn't have to compete against all the mega dragon dancers it has become more viable option I think and it ain't bad from my experience. Though I guess it goes for every mon that had to compete against mega evo's.

I agree. As an offensive DD user, it is better than D-nite. However, unlike D-nite, it can also viably run a Choice Scarf and Defog sets due to Moxie and Intimidate, respectively. As such, it now has the same versatility that made it so good in gen 5 :]

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

I agree. As an offensive DD user, it is better than D-nite. However, unlike D-nite, it can also viably run a Choice Scarf and Defog sets due to Moxie and Intimidate, respectively. As such, it now has the same versatility that made it so good in gen 5 :]

Not really sure how its much better than dnite as a ddancer. They have basically the same attack stat and moves. Mence is faster, but besides scarfers not many scarfers that outspeed dnite and not mence i can only think of kube and lando. Multiscale just eases set up so much. Moxie is ok, but if your set up then kill something you prob are already sweeping and moxie won't matter.

Would need to see replays of defog as on paper seems outclassed by other defogers.

Scarf sets to have some merit.

In gen 5 it really wasn't that good

 

[pika pal]

Not really sure how its much better than dnite as a ddancer. They have basically the same attack stat and moves. Mence is faster, but besides scarfers not many scarfers that outspeed dnite and not mence i can only think of kube and lando. Multiscale just eases set up so much. Moxie is ok, but if your set up then kill something you prob are already sweeping and moxie won't matter.

Would need to see replays of defog as on paper seems outclassed by other defogers.

Scarf sets to have some merit.

In gen 5 it really wasn't that good

Kyu-B and Lando are pretty relevant I'd say as Scarfers, and Salamence has Intimidate, which has proven very helpful for Gyarados in set up considering their identical bulk, while Salamence has a better Speed Tier and wider movepool.

 

[Clone]

Not gonna argue for or against Mence, but providing replays would be a great way to back up your case.

 

[Martin]

What I was saying about Mence was all based around theory, so it may not be the same in practice XD

However, I am going to have to pick Lil Yoshi XD up on the Defog thing. Intimidate+typing+movepool+all around great stats mean that it has a niche as a bulky Defogger that can threaten the majority of bulky hazard setters, which is a niche that only it has in both the mega and the non-mega metagames. In standard, Scarf is literal ass, with the whole reason it is even ranked in the first place being the defog set, and not enough changes in this metagame to take away that niche. If you are wondering what the set it is ranked for looks like, I have got an importable for you here:

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 Spe
Timid / Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump / Earthquake
- Roost

The EVs with a positive nature allow Mence to outpace everything up to Jolly Diggersby, and if running EQ then Jolly is absolutely necessary as it allows you to guarantee a 2HKO on T-Tar without rocks and OHKO SpD Heatran. This is copied directly from the Salamence analysis because I'm too lazy to open up the PS app and search through the 150+ teams to find one of my four which feature Defog Mence and Scarf is not on there.

IMO, Scarf and DD are definitely much more viable this time around due to losing competition. While Dragonite is probably better under most circumstances as a DD user, Moxie gives it use on select teams due to its higher speed and one more base attack (jk one extra base attack doesn't mean sh*t). Scarf has a similar niche to what it had before (although it became hard to call a niche after the Defog set was discovered) but it might be slightly bigger due to the loss in creep that the megas brought making it a decent late-game sweeper. Whether they are much higher, IDK. However, the Defog set is probably still going to be its main niche

edit: fuuu... when i responded i thought i was in the meta discussion thread ;;;; Well, seeing as this is the viability rankings thread, I guess I'll just say that it is maybe C-? I doesn't seem to fit into D anymore tbh, but that may just be bias XD

 

[Celticpride]

Small update:

Crawdaunt to B+
Feraligatr to C+
Salemence to C
Ninetales, Venu to D

Justification

Crawdaunt is mindless as heck on the ladder. DarkSpam cores are pretty solid and Crawdaunt owns one of the games strongest Knock Offs
Feraligatr dropped because why not use Gyara? There's some situations but Gyara so good overall right now
Salamence because there's less competition and has a good speed tier
Tales and Venu are a passable niche core, and Venu has some defensive use according to Clone

That's it for now! Keep the good talk coming. I know the ladder isn't of the best quality(?) right now, but we would like some replays for more controversial noms. They don't have to be great, just show a particular mon doing enough work Mence for one isn't going higher than C without a solid replay. Probably going to post some thoughts later in the week myself so look out for that.

 

[Jaguar360]

Honestly, if Mence moved up, Zygarde could go with him as well for the same reasons. Bulky Dragon Dancers like Zard X, Mega T-tar, Mega Alt and Mega Gyarados are gone, leaving Zygarde, Gyarados and Dragonite as the only ones left really. Zygarde's impressive bulk and access to priority make him fare very well in this metagame. Coil's still a thing as well, though I haven't used that on this ladder yet. My Zygarde nom might have gotten lost in my controversial Sticky Web post.

Zygarde from C- --> C / C+
Zygarde seems a lot better now that its competition from the 4 bulky Mega Dragon Dancers has been removed and it's a really cool check to Bisharp and Talonflame. I've been using this set to get great bulk while outspeeding Starmie and Raikou after one Dragon Dance and Adamant Bisharp unboosted. With Sticky Web support, it outspeeds all grounded Choice Scarf users as well after DD.

Zygarde @ Lum Berry
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed

Now, what does Zygarde have over Dragonite or Garchomp? Unlike Dragonite, Zygarde resists Stealth Rock, does not rely on its ability to check threats or set up on them (Zygarde practically doesn't have an ability in OU lol), gets STAB on Earthquake and has room for Edgequake coverage. Garchomp lacks Dragon Dance or priority and is a tad less bulky than Zygarde. The only thing to really be compared here is their typing and stats.

Zygarde also has its SubCoil and support threats to consider, but I have no idea how these fare in the metagame yet. Fairly simple nom here, Zygarde to C/C+.

In the replays, I wasn't really able to face great opponents or anything since the players higher than me on the ladder apparently weren't there or just didn't cross my path, but they are still great for showing Sticky Web in action, with Gourgeist and Zygarde also playing their roles.

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-229122480
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-229123770
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-229125229
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-229129476

 

[Tramuntana]

LOL. What the crap does Dragonite in A-? I can't think a single mon of the A, A+ or S ranks that likes to switch in on him before getting 100% sure of his actual set...
And bisharp in S. tsk, tsk, nobody learned to use itemless SD Acrobatics Talonflame? i am truly the only one who abuses of it?

 

[Mean Mr Snorlax]

I'd like to nominate Breloom for A- Rank.

Breloom, from what I've seen, is an excellent choice for this metagame. The meta revolves around Knock Off, and to a slightly lesser extent dark types, which is, put simply, the wet dream of a fighting type that doesn't care all too much about losing its item and is already solid in its own right. Breloom is just this kind of pokemon. It can tank hits from massive threats like Crawdaunt and Bisharp, and it beats 3/4 of the S Rank 'mon 1v1. Even Lando can't switch on Loom, lest it get smacked with Rock Tomb then outsped and KO'd after rocks on the next turn. In addition to this, a massive amount of Megas give Loom serious trouble, so in the No Mega environment it's lost a great many of its checks/counters: MVenu, Both Zards, MZam, MAlt, MGross, MGarde, MGallade, MPinsir, MLatias... the list goes on.

Breloom's rather hard to come by typing of Grass/Fighting provides some key resistances to Water, Ground, Electric, Stealth Rock, and most notably Dark, and therefore Knock Off. Unlike its Grass/Fighting counterpart (Chesnaught), Breloom has access to the oh-so coveted Spore, a massive attack stat that allows it to avoid being as passive as Ches, and two fantastic abilities in Poison Heal and Technician. This lets it run a multitude of sets: On offensive sets, Focus Sash and Life Orb are both solid items that provide different benefits: Sash allows it to beat stuff like Talonflame that would normally send it crying to its mother provided its got some spin/defog support, while a Life Orb makes Breloom's already strong priority in Mach Punch sting even more. Spore + 3 Attacks is an absolutely amazing set, but SD also seems like it could punch some serious holes in certain teams, or clean up late game with boosted Mach Punches. For something more defensive, a Poison Heal set can make Breloom a pretty solid tank, though I have not used this set enough in the No Mega meta to really go in-depth on it.

Overall, though, I think Loom fits in much better with the likes of Chesnaught and Jirachi in A- than it does with Hydreigon and Dragalge in B+.

 

[Red King]

I would like to nominate Manaphy to A+.

Honestly what is this thing doing in A, it could practically be S. the lowered speed tiers and removal of mega venusaur make it more dangerous than ever, as well as a lowered amount of coverage moves thanks to several pokemon leaving. All in All it has much less threats that can take advantage of it's middling with speed. pokemon like lopunny, altaria, venusaur, metagross and manetric are no longer threats that it has to worry about. making it a more effective and more dangerous pokemon.

 

[Clone]

late af reply but yeah manaphy is A+ material easily.

also to spark some discussion i wanna hear some opinions on these mons in particular:

torn t to a+
omastar to b+
kyubes to a
zygarde to c
metagross to c

keep in mind that i may or may not entirely support all of these so if you want my opinion on them feel free to ask.

 

[Firebird101]

I second Manaphy to A+, and I think you can make a case for it to be S but I am not good enough debater so I wanna leave it to other more experienced people ^^

Anyways, anyone who has played this ladder knows that knock off is pretty much just an amazing move and spammable as it gets for reasons that don't even need to be explained. So I wanna nominate two awesome knock off abusers to A+.

and

I almost feel like this should be self-explanatory honestly, Mew only fell from it's grace in XY during the ORAS transition almost solely due to Mega Sableye and the stallbreaker simply manhandles bulkier teams that doesn't have a good answer against him just as much it did in XY, and that usually means mons that don't care for knock off or burn, and those are pretty few, let me tell you that. It doesn't help that most dark types like Tyranitar and Bisharp can't even beat it 1-1 unless they are scarfed or are holding a lum berry, assuming they get a free swithin of course. One of those dark types however is Weavile, that outspeeds almost the entire unboosted meta and has the ever so spammable STAB knock off, ice STAB and priority gives it a great freedom for it's 4th move for coverage or swords dance. Aside from maybe Talonflame it may be the best late-game cleaner you can use in this meta.

Though seriously, the no mega ladder doesn't get enough love :(

 

[Anduril]

I definitely think Omastar could fit in B+. It works very well in this meta and can 2HKO everything except Chansey. Modest Specs just blows past resists and it's also pretty physically bulky, easily surviving Loom and Conk's priority as well as being a solid check to Tflame, who's p annoying in this meta. Can provide replays if necessary

 

[Celticpride]

Weavile to A+ seems fine. I'm not huge on Mew myself but I could see A for it. Mana and Torn seem like a forgone conclusion at this point (Torn-T might even be S imo). Granted A- might be getting a little small at that point but we can deflate ranks later (got something in mind for that).

I've noticed a lot of successful Rain teams on the ladder so Politoed might be worth a look, and maybe Kingdra as well. Most Rain teams I've seen are Toed/Dra/Torn/Oma/Ferro/filler and I think there's some untapped potential there but generic Rain still plays great. That might either be a lack of preparation by the ladder or the fact that Rain is really effective in general, probably the latter. Omastar could rise as well.

If you have experience playing in this tier please post! We won't bite :X

 

[Vryheid]

For what it's worth I've played 70+ games on the no megas ladder with my current team and peaked at #2 with it. I've also watched countless ladder replays and seen what other good players are using, and I have a general sense of how the meta has shaped these past few weeks. These are some of my opinions from what I've experienced:

Landorus should be at B+ at best. Sorry guys, but it is so overprepared for in a tier already packed with Pokemon that can tank a hit and OHKO it (Azumarill and Conkeldurr come to mind) that it rarely accomplishes anything productive against good players. Anyone who seriously thinks Landorus is dominant against any kind of decent team setup or play style clearly is not experienced with what kind of strategies higher ranked players use. It just isn't that scary to deal with.

Further explanation- the lack of megas threatening to sweep in a moments notice really looses up restrictions in defensive cores, making using bulky attackers that take it on 1v1 and win much more viable. The extra slot granted by the loss of megas means it is also much easier to throw in something like Mamoswine or Weavile (already more popular thanks to how deadly Knock Off is) which can easily revenge kill it. Plus with how crazy good Sp Def Gliscor and Cresselia are at dealing with most fighting type/knock off spam, its not a surprise to see them also common as excellent counters to most Landorus sets.

Hydreigon should be A-. This Pokemon does so much work against opposing stall teams it should be mandatory on anyone banking on dragon spam to win matches. I am biased somewhat because I use it quite a bit but the ability to blow up 2-3 physical or special walls while doing a tremendous amount of damage to Clefable with Flash Cannon has always been a big help. Its also a great answer to Mew/Sableye/Gothitelle spam, something many balance or stall teams rely on.

Cresselia should be A+. It effortlessly shuts down a number of A and S ranked threats, and is one of the best answers to non-stab Knock Off despite being weak to the move. Being able to easily take on Landorus(both forms), Azumarill, Talonflame, Garchomp, Latios, Keldeo, Mamoswine, Slowbro, and plenty of others makes it an easy win condition once the few Pokemon an opponent has that can actually threaten it get worn down. Being able to throw around Thunder Wave also easily sets up the opponent for a late game sweep from something like Kyurem B and can save teams from dangerous Dragon Dance sweepers.

Conkeldurr should be S tier. Holy smokes, has this thing improved since standard OU. I am convinced that it is one of the most metagame defining Pokemon along with Azumarill and Gliscor, and this is primarilly due to Knock Off being much more deadly with Megas gone and considering how many awful matchups it had with said Megas. It not only has the bulk to tank a hit from the likes of Kyurem-B or Excadrill, it can continually regenerate all that health back thanks to Drain Punch. It has so many good matchups that its an excellent pivot on many teams and the ability to absorb status and revenge kill stuff like Bisharp or Weavile gives it plenty of defensive utility. It has all the strengths of Gen 5 Conk with Assault Vest giving it an extra layer of bulk that pushes it over the edge. Really great mon in general.

Klefki is B imo. Spikes are... okay, I guess? It was always a niche option even in standard OU and from what I've seen in No Megas nothing has changed. Yeah, Prankster T-wave is nice, and that typing is good defensively, but if you need a Dragon counter something like Azumarill is vastly superior. If Klefki had reliable recovery and wasn't Ground-weak (a death sentence in this ground heavy metagame) I'd rate it as a much better option.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

For what it's worth I've played 70+ games on the no megas ladder with my current team and peaked at #2 with it. I've also watched countless ladder replays and seen what other good players are using, and I have a general sense of how the meta has shaped these past few weeks. These are some of my opinions from what I've experienced:

Landorus should be at B+ at best. Sorry guys, but it is so overprepared for in a tier already packed with Pokemon that can tank a hit and OHKO it (Azumarill and Conkeldurr come to mind) that it rarely accomplishes anything productive against good players. Anyone who seriously thinks Landorus is dominant against any kind of decent team setup or play style clearly is not experienced with what kind of strategies higher ranked players use. It just isn't that scary to deal with.

Further explanation- the lack of megas threatening to sweep in a moments notice really looses up restrictions in defensive cores, making using bulky attackers that take it on 1v1 and win much more viable. The extra slot granted by the loss of megas means it is also much easier to throw in something like Mammoswine or Weavile (already more popular thanks to how deadly Knock Off is) which can easily revenge kill it. Plus with how crazy good Sp Def Gliscor and Cresselia are at dealing with most fighting type/knock off spam, its not a surprise to see them also common as excellent counters to most Landorus sets.

This nomination makes no sense and I will sum up why as the bolded parts are wrong. Sure it's overprepared for but if anything that shows how much of a dominating presence in the meta and the massive strain it puts on teambuilding. Azumarill loses to sludge wave while conkeldurr hates psychic but even then earth power hurts them a lot. Also landorus is not scary is false as this thing's presence basically makes you really hesitant to switch in. While weavile and mammo can revenge it they can't switch in. Plus spdef gliscor loses to hp ice ones and cresselia only fits in stall.

Basically keep landorus-i in S.

 

[Celticpride]

For what it's worth I've played 70+ games on the no megas ladder with my current team and peaked at #2 with it. I've also watched countless ladder replays and seen what other good players are using, and I have a general sense of how the meta has shaped these past few weeks. These are some of my opinions from what I've experienced:

Landorus should be at B+ at best. Sorry guys, but it is so overprepared for in a tier already packed with Pokemon that can tank a hit and OHKO it (Azumarill and Conkeldurr come to mind) that it rarely accomplishes anything productive against good players. Anyone who seriously thinks Landorus is dominant against any kind of decent team setup or play style clearly is not experienced with what kind of strategies higher ranked players use. It just isn't that scary to deal with.

Further explanation- the lack of megas threatening to sweep in a moments notice really looses up restrictions in defensive cores, making using bulky attackers that take it on 1v1 and win much more viable. The extra slot granted by the loss of megas means it is also much easier to throw in something like Mamoswine or Weavile (already more popular thanks to how deadly Knock Off is) which can easily revenge kill it. Plus with how crazy good Sp Def Gliscor and Cresselia are at dealing with most fighting type/knock off spam, its not a surprise to see them also common as excellent counters to most Landorus sets.

Hydreigon should be A-. This Pokemon does so much work against opposing stall teams it should be mandatory on anyone banking on dragon spam to win matches. I am biased somewhat because I use it quite a bit but the ability to blow up 2-3 physical or special walls while doing a tremendous amount of damage to Clefable with Flash Cannon has always been a big help. Its also a great answer to Mew/Sableye/Gothitelle spam, something many balance or stall teams rely on.

Cresselia should be A+. It effortlessly shuts down a number of A and S ranked threats, and is one of the best answers to non-stab Knock Off despite being weak to the move. Being able to easily take on Landorus(both forms), Azumarill, Talonflame, Garchomp, Latios, Keldeo, Mamoswine, Slowbro, and plenty of others makes it an easy win condition once the few Pokemon an opponent has that can actually threaten it get worn down. Being able to throw around Thunder Wave also easily sets up the opponent for a late game sweep from something like Kyurem B and can save teams from dangerous Dragon Dance sweepers.

Conkeldurr should be S tier. Holy smokes, has this thing improved since standard OU. I am convinced that it is one of the most metagame defining Pokemon along with Azumarill and Gliscor, and this is primarilly due to Knock Off being much more deadly with Megas gone and considering how many awful matchups it had with said Megas. It not only has the bulk to tank a hit from the likes of Kyurem-B or Excadrill, it can continually regenerate all that health back thanks to Drain Punch. It has so many good matchups that its an excellent pivot on many teams and the ability to absorb status and revenge kill stuff like Bisharp or Weavile gives it plenty of defensive utility. It has all the strengths of Gen 5 Conk with Assault Vest giving it an extra layer of bulk that pushes it over the edge. Really great mon in general.

Klefki is B imo. Spikes are... okay, I guess? It was always a niche option even in standard OU and from what I've seen in No Megas nothing has changed. Yeah, Prankster T-wave is nice, and that typing is good defensively, but if you need a Dragon counter something like Azumarill is vastly superior. If Klefki had reliable recovery and wasn't Ground-weak (a death sentence in this ground heavy metagame) I'd rate it as a much better option.

Yeah I'm not entirely sure you understand how this works. Basically the rankings have "stabilized" at this point aka no drastic rises or drops. Generally speaking in a viability thread nominations move something up or down one rank (so as not to overreact to small trends that look like big things). I don't really see a scenario that either Landorus is B+ really as both are very much meta-defining. Conkeldurr is honestly too slow in general especially when there's a dozen and a half Fighting types that are significantly faster and can thus provide more pressure. I mean you have Nape, Terrakion, Heracross, Keldeo, and a bunch of other similar Fighting types that can more or less do what you described Conk doing so what exactly is different or unique enough to justify a move up, let alone a move from B to S? Cresselia can do all the things you mentioned in regular OU and I don't see how this meta is any more friendly to it. Cress can basically tank hits all day but any team with a decent stall plan has no issues with Cress. TWave isn't really a factor when Taunt based stallbreakers are much more viable with the absence of Mega Sableye. I don't really think you've seen Klefki used correctly especially now that Magnet Rise Klefki is a thing.

I know I said "we don't bite", but you should have at least an understanding of how these things (VR threads) minimally work because your post shows a lacking in this regard.

Edit: Hydreigon nom is cash tho but it's a balance breaker not a stallbreaker, there's a difference.

 

[MANNAT]

What exactly is stopping Infernape from Moving up to B or higher right now? It seems significantly improved with a couple of its checks being gone (MegaBro, MegaLati@s) and dark being so much more of a spammable type in this meta. In fact, the only mons that really beat it 100% of the time are Lati@s, Talonbird that I can think of.

Calcs to prove things it beat that seem to be checks or counters really aren't in S and A+:

S rank

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Infernape: 236-282 (80.5 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168 Atk Life Orb Infernape Gunk Shot vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 328-387 (90.1 - 106.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
88 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 307-364 (96.2 - 114.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (can't switch in, but outspeeds)
168 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 220-261 (68.1 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (dislikes switching in, and dies to cc+mach if it is being run)

A+ Rank

168 Atk Life Orb Infernape Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 239-283 (60.8 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (uninvested is one shot)
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 130-154 (44.3 - 52.5%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO (can switch in and easily wins on free switches)
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 338-400 (94.6 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (offensive rocker is more common from what ive seen b/c less physical mega sweepers, but just in case)
252 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Garchomp: 307-364 (73 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (can't switch in)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 266-316 (90.7 - 107.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (it's a roll)
88 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 220-259 (84.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (rocks = KO)
88 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 322-385 (90.9 - 108.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Can switch in on anything but EQ)
88 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 302-359 (79 - 93.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (not a bad chance)
168 Atk Life Orb Infernape Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 162-192 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (doesn't like switching in)
168 Atk Life Orb Infernape Gunk Shot vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 179-212 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (see above)
88 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 211-250 (70.8 - 83.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (can't switch in and)
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Flying vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 254-300 (86.6 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO (not even most common move)

This isn't as much of a nom as much of a post of me asking why the hell isn't infernape higher on the viability list because a spread of 168 atk/88 spa/252 spe hasty nature with cc/fb/gunk/hp ice can easily 2HKO or OHKO basically everything in the S and A-ranks except maybe 1 or 2 mons.