OU Speed Tiers

[eric the espeon]

We've made large strides toward bringing the OU Speed Tiers entirely up to date with the current metagame, but there are still a few unused or non viable sets up and I'm sure there are plenty of somewhat important sets which should be added.

Please post Pokemon and sets that you think should be added or removed, preferably with a sentence or so of reasoning explaining why the Pokemon is threatening and common enough and should be added, or is not useful/used and should be removed. I or another C&C mod will edit the list of sets to add/remove with suggestions based on support and experience, and once they have been left for comment for a fair amount of time they will be edited into the on site speed tiers.

Most recent OU usage stats are here, detailed stats are here.

Posts expressing support for/disagreement with other people's posts are also encouraged.

Format:
Speed Stat / Pokemon / Base Speed / Nature / Boost / Ev Investment
(for removals, you don't need to stick precisely to that format so long as it is clear which set you want removed)

To Add:

Possible additions:
358 / Rhyperior / 40 / Neutral / +2 / 252
524 / Metagross / 70 / +Speed / +2 / 252
HP Fire spreads (all common, maybe not on separate lines)

To Remove:
+1 Aerodactyl
Swellow (all sets)

Possible removals:
Charizard (all sets)
Medicham (all sets)
Mismagius (all sets)
+1 Suicune

Changed

Thanks to Fuzznip for getting many of these into the right format from my post in small changes.

Added:
364 / Tyranitar / 61 / +Speed / +1 / 252
331 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / +1 / 252
525 / Latias / 110 / +Speed / +1 / 252
492 / Jirachi / 100 / +Speed / +1 / 252
328 / Jirachi / 100 / +Speed / +0 / 252
447 / Rotom-A / 86 / +Speed / +1 / 252
280 / Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / +0 / 216
308 / Gliscor / 95 / +Speed / +0 / 216
289 / Gliscor / 95 / Neutral / +0 / 252
317 / Gliscor / 95 / +Speed / +0 / 252
360 / Magnezone / 60 / +Speed / +1 / 252
177 / Magnezone / 60 / Neutral / +0 / 84
146 / Machamp / 55 / Neutral / +0 / 0
530 / Zapdos / 100 / Neutral / +2 / 116
403 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / +1 / 252
590 / Kingdra / 85 / +Speed / +2 / 252
538 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / +2 / 252
214 / Empoleon / 60 / Neutral / +0 / 232
428 / Empoleon / 60 / Neutral / +2 / 232
156 / Empoleon / 60 / Neutral / +0 / 0
116 / Forretress / 40 / Neutral / +0 / 0
104 / Forretress / 40 / -Speed / +0 / 0
388 / Togekiss / 80 / Neutral / +1 / 252
236 / Tentacruel / 100 / Neutral / +0 / 0
328 / Tentacruel / 100 / +Speed / +0 / 252
409 / Smeargle / 75 / +Speed / +1 / 252
130 / Hippowdon / 47 / Neutral / +0 / 0
690 / Ninjask / 160 / +Speed / +1 / 252
628 / Ninjask / 160 / Neutral / +1 / 252
239 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / +0 / 252
478 / Ludicolo / 70 / Neutral / +2 / 252
392 / Rhyperior / 40 / +Speed / +2 / 252
196 / Rhyperior / 40 / +Speed / +0 / 252
179 / Rhyperior / 40 / Neutral / +0 / 252
209 / Metagross / 70 / Neutral / +0 / 132
418 / Metagross / 70 / Neutral / +2 / 132
262 / Metagross / 70 / +Speed / +0 / 252
530 / Gliscor / 95 / +Speed / +2 / 60
265 / Gliscor / 95 / +Speed / +0 / 60
393 / Breloom / 70 / +Speed / +1 / 252
Azelf
-HP Fight
-Common Natures: +Spe
-Base Speed: 115
-Effective Speed: 360

Gengar
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 110
-Effective Speed: 349, 523 (Scarf)

Latias
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 110
-Effective Speed: 349, 523 (Scarf)

Magnezone
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 60
-Effective Speed: 239, 358 (Scarf)

Porygon-Z
-HP Fight
-Common Nature: Neutral, +Spe
-Base Speed: 90
-Effective Speed: 278 (Neutral), 417 (Neutral Scarf), 305 (+Spe), 457 (+Spe Scarf)

Raikou
-HP Fight
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 115
-Effective Speed: 360

Roserade
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 90
-Effective Speed: 305

Rotom-A
-HP Fight
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 86
-Effective Speed: 297, 445 (Scarf)

Sceptile (not a joke)
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 120
-Effective Speed: 371

Shaymin and Celebi
- HP Fire
- Common Natures: +Spe, +SpA/Neutral (may as well include SpA/Neutral because of Celebi, though Timid is better on Shaymin and seen more often)
- Base Speed: 100
- Effective Speed: 328, 298

Abomasnow
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 60
-Effective Speed: 239, 358 (Scarf)

Removed:
+1 Lucario
+1 Weavile
Slaking, Tauros, Espeon, Gardevoir, Zangoose, Blaziken, Purugly, Jynx, Leafeon, Houndoom, Drapion, Toxicroak, Rampardos, Marowak (all sets)
Neutral nature Electrode
223: +1 hits 334 Speed (no Chompy)
no speed Ludicolo


Other changes: PorygonZ to Porygon-Z

 

[jc104]

Thought I'd help by suggesting some removals, since this is easy. Basically, anything that is rarely used and doesn't have a set in the analysis:

Tier 0

- +1 Lucario - scarf lucario is very rare; this will only be seen with baton pass really, or when tricked, but will then usually be neutral natured anyway.
- +1 Weavile - I have never seen a Scarf Weavile in my life. It doesn't boost speed and is a terrible Baton Pass target due to bullet punch.
- Slaking, Tauros, Charizard, Espeon, Gardevoir and Zangoose are all NU, many of them rarer at +1. Medicham might want to stay as it is usually scarfed and a viable threat.
-Blaziken on the grounds of being totally outclassed by Infernape.

Tier 1

- Purugly, Espeon and Tauros need to be removed

There is a lot more of this. Hope I helped.

EDIT: the reason Purugly was on there was presumably because it has its own speed tier.

 

[eric the espeon]

Added them all other than Charizard, which is only just outside OU in 66th place and uses Salac Berry 33% of the time. Could still go, but it gets some use and bellyzard can cause problems sometimes so unless more people want it removed it's staying. Thanks for helping. And lol@Purugly being on there, it's used less than Ditto or Chancey >_>.

 

[jc104]

Here are some more removals. You should change the usage stat link at the top as it is out-of-date.

- Neutral natured Electrode. Practically only seen as a lead where it runs a +speed nature. Electrode could be removed altogether.
- Having looked at the stats, Medicham is probably too rare to be included. The most common set is scarf though.
- Mismagius possibly, because it is outclassed by Gengar/Rotom-A. It does have its own speed level though.
- Jynx and Leafeon should be removed.
- Houndoom as it is outclassed by Infernape/Heatran
- Drapion as it is number 106 in stats.
- Toxicroak as it is no. 115.
- Rampardos is no 122.
- Marowak - first of all, it is rare. Secondly, it is almost entirely used in Trick room or with BP support.
- Ludicolo should only be present at max speed neutral nature, and possibly only at +2.

 

[snorlaxative]

remove 223: +1 hits 334 Speed since Garchomp is now Uber

add: 392 / Rhyperior / 40 / +Speed / +2 / 252
478 / Ludicolo, Metagross / 70 / +Speed / +2 / 252 (ties with Latias/Gengar Neutral +1, which is already listed)

 

[Philip7086]

What do you guys think of listing speeds for Pokemon that use HP Fire and whatnot, as the IV drops their speed? Personally, I find it useful when building teams to consider that. For instance, if I'm worried about beating Latias, I will use Scizor + Gengar, as Scizor beats non-HP Fire Latiases, and Gengar beats those that pack HP Fire. If enough people think this would be useful, I can compile a list of Pokemon who commonly use speed-dropping Hidden Powers.

 

[eric the espeon]

jc104: Updated links, added all suggestions (some to possible changes). Good finds.

remove 223: +1 hits 334 Speed since Garchomp is now Uber

right.

add: 392 / Rhyperior / 40 / +Speed / +2 / 252
478 / Ludicolo, Metagross / 70 / +Speed / +2 / 252 (ties with Latias/Gengar Neutral +1, which is already listed)

AgiliGross seems to run a neutral nature and 132 EVs and Ludi seems to run a Neutral nature not +Speed, added those spreads instead. Put +Speed Metagross in possibles till someone confirms. Added +Spe +2 Rhy and a few other Rhy spreads to go along with it.

Philip, that is workable and could provide useful info for players. Maybe it could be noted somehow rather than cluttering up the tiers with another line? Something like a * at the end and a note at the bottom saying those Pokemon sometimes run a IV spread with 30 Speed, so may be slightly slower. If you want to get a list together that'd be great.

 

[Philip7086]

Philip, that is workable and could provide useful info for players. Maybe it could be noted somehow rather than cluttering up the tiers with another line? Something like a * at the end and a note at the bottom saying those Pokemon sometimes run a IV spread with 30 Speed, so may be slightly slower. If you want to get a list together that'd be great.

Will do.

 

[snorlaxative]

jc104: Updated links, added all suggestions (some to possible changes). Good finds.


right.
AgiliGross seems to run a neutral nature and 132 EVs and Ludi seems to run a Neutral nature not +Speed, added those spreads instead. Put +Speed Metagross in possibles till someone confirms. Added +Spe +2 Rhy and a few other Rhy spreads to go along with it.

Philip, that is workable and could provide useful info for players. Maybe it could be noted somehow rather than cluttering up the tiers with another line? Something like a * at the end and a note at the bottom saying those Pokemon sometimes run a IV spread with 30 Speed, so may be slightly slower. If you want to get a list together that'd be great.

sorry, the Ludi/Metagross stat was a typo on my part. It should be neutral nature, 252 speed. They both have 239 speed with 252 ev's neutral nature, 478 speed at +2.

 

[eric the espeon]

sorry, the Ludi/Metagross stat was a typo on my part. It should be neutral nature, 252 speed. They both have 239 speed with 252 ev's neutral nature, 478 speed at +2.

In that case, the post before yours suggested those Ludi additions. Does Agiligross really run max speed? The analysis says 132 is the standard.

 

[eric the espeon]

All the struckout changes in the OP have been made. Big thanks to mingot for setting up sortability in the lists so they don't need huge amounts of messing about when you add Pokemon. Still need comments on the other changes and I'm sure there are more sets to add or remove out there!

 

[jumpluff]

Possible removals:
Electrode (all sets)
Charizard (all sets)
Medicham (all sets)
Mismagius (all sets)

remove these except timid electrode, not that i'm sure why anyone would try to outspeed an electrode but it's still worth documenting.

swellow as well. nearly 6% of breloom are scarved nowadays so it might be worth putting in given breloom is a clearcut ou.

393 / Breloom / 70 / +Speed / +1 / 252

nobody uses +1 aerodactyl so remove that as well imo

 

[Philip7086]

I would keep Electrode, tbh, just for being the fastest non-jask mon in OU. It makes for a fairly decent Taunt lead on specialized teams.

 

[jumpluff]

yeah, i just fixed my post with a lot of stuff. electrode is also a SEMI RARE rain dance lead. it's also one point below +nature scarftran, which is interesting as well! +1 'cune is iffy. i know junior used that but honestly i can't imagine anyone actually using it and i'm sure it's in other items.

eta: oh, i just noticed, where is +2 gliscor?

530 / Gliscor / 95 / +Speed / +2 / 60

 

[eric the espeon]

Added +0 and +2 Baton Pass Gliscor and ScarfLoom to the site, added other suggestions to OP, since people seem to think Electrode can stay (and + Spe 252 is the only remaining set) I've removed it from possible removals. Will remove Charizard / Medicham / Mismagius soon unless they get support.

 

[ck49]

I think charizard and medicham both should be on the list as they both are very potent threats, while not being used much. Bellyzard can sweep a whole team, even in OU, and scarfed medicham is also very good. I havent seen mismagius around because it is outclassed by gengar mostly, but charizard and medicham both can occupy their own niches which nothing really outclasses them at.

 

[Chillarmy]

I think charizard and medicham both should be on the list as they both are very potent threats, while not being used much. Bellyzard can sweep a whole team, even in OU, and scarfed medicham is also very good. I havent seen mismagius around because it is outclassed by gengar mostly, but charizard and medicham both can occupy their own niches which nothing really outclasses them at.

Stealth Rock is an omnipresent entry hazard in OU; Rotom-A and Gengar are OU's best spinblockers and are commonly used. Charizard is also Phazed by the likes of Swampert, Gyarados and it can be easily outplaced by a Scarfer along the lines of Flygon and Jirachi and takes more than 25% from most of OU's priority moves. Charizard isn't a threat to the common team imo.

A base 80 Speed isn't anything to fear at +1 when considering how frail Medicham is. Heatran can revenge it, as can Scizor, Lucario, Flygon, Jirachi, Latias, Gengar, Starmie, Zapdos, Swampert and any other Pokemon that carries priority, can take multiple hits from it or just outpaces it. It should also be noted that Medicham needs to use the risky Hi-jump-kick to actually cause some damage =/.

 

[Philip7086]

Relevant users of -1 Spe IV in OU:

Azelf
-HP Fight
-Common Natures: +Spe
-Base Speed: 115
-Effective Speed: 360

Gengar
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 110
-Effective Speed: 349, 523 (Scarf)

Latias
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 110
-Effective Speed: 349, 523 (Scarf)

Magnezone
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 60
-Effective Speed: 239, 358 (Scarf)

Porygon-Z
-HP Fight
-Common Nature: Neutral, +Spe
-Base Speed: 90
-Effective Speed: 278 (Neutral), 417 (Neutral Scarf), 305 (+Spe), 457 (+Spe Scarf)

Raikou
-HP Fight
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 115
-Effective Speed: 360

Roserade
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 90
-Effective Speed: 305

Rotom-A
-HP Fight
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 86
-Effective Speed: 297, 445 (Scarf)

Sceptile (not a joke)
-HP Fire
-Common Nature: +Spe
-Base Speed: 120
-Effective Speed: 371

 

[jc104]

Just thought I'd point out that the link for +1 Dugtrio is broken (I'm not so sure about +1 dugtrio myself anyway)

Also, has Espeon (+speed) been left there deliberately?

 

[eric the espeon]

Fixed that link (it was actually a missing " that cause +1 latias to not show up, and put duggy in the wrong place).

Does anyone have comments for the 30 Speed IV Pokemon before I put them up?

 

[jumpluff]

scarftrio isn't really relevant imo. it was only used when scarftran was doubly popular (due to skymin). however,

| Dugtrio | Item | Choice Scarf | 11.9 |

i don't think this is common enough to keep, but what say you? also, idk about agility hp fire gross, lol.. I mean, hp fire doesn't even rate on the stats, and it's pretty much only used on the mix set.

by the way, to add onto phil's post:

Shaymin and Celebi
- HP Fire
- Common Natures: +Spe, +SpA/Neutral (may as well include SpA/Neutral because of Celebi, though Timid is better on Shaymin and seen more often)
- Base Speed: 100
- Effective Speed: 328, 298

 

[eric the espeon]

Scarf Duggy could go either way imo, so I've left it for now. I made a few changes direct (added Abomasnow, changed max Speed Cressy and max speed+ Cressy to no speed cressy, added trickscarf Uxie) and added philip's + jumpluff's list to the OP with one addition of my own (HP Fire Aboma).

 

[jc104]

I've got some removals, some issues and some questions.

-0 speed Gliscor needs to go
-Why does Forretress not get a -speed 0 IV thing like Bronzong and Dusknoir?
-Why do some say boost: none and others +0 ?
- Just underneath where it says Tier 1, Magnezone is floating in the middle of nowhere.
-219 speed is ahead of 220 speed
-Espeon is still there

and one addition:

208 / Rotom-A / 86 / Neutral / +0 / 0

RestTalk Rotom

 

[eric the espeon]

Made all jc104's changes (and added -Nature 0 IV Steelix) except removing 0 Spe Gliscor:
| Gliscor | Speed EV | None | 11.3 |
And Gliscor is high up on usage generally so that's enough to keep it in.

 

[Jamesb8]

I think Forretress needs a 0IV -Speed no evs plus Macho Brace Speed Rating as it is a option given on his individual page nd also makes Gyro Ball super Powerful?

It bring his speed to 38