SS OU OU Suboptimal Bulky Offense: Tyrantrum/Gengar core

Tyrantrum_XY.gif
Scizor_XY.gif
Gyarados_XY_hembra.gif
Gengar_XY_variocolor.gif
Volcarona_XY.gif
Landorus_t%C3%B3tem_XY.gif



Hello everyone, this is my SS OU team. Actually, I've been using this same team since XY, but I'm trying to update to this meta. I should note that I'm losing a lot when I replace any Pokemon of the main team, but I listed the main other possibilities I've been trying anyway.

1- In this generation, I started this team using the National Dex format but recently moved to OU. I'd love to receive your opinions!
2- I'm testing this team because I'll implement it in-game sometime in the future. So I'm only taking suggestions of mons I can breed.
3- I think some species like Gliscor will be back at some time with the Diamond/Pearl remake, and it will be my pick for the sixth slot. For now, I'm testing the ones available in SS.
4- Having said that, let's get into it!

The Team (6)

Tyrantrum_XY.gif

Tyrantrum @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Close Combat

This one is my Revenge Killer and my favorite Pokemon among all. The main STAB move is Head Smash that is devastating and works fine against a multitude of opposing pokemon due to the Choice Scarf. Outrage is another very strong STAB move to hit everything that resists Head Smash. The duo Earthquake and Close Combat work well against pokemon that resists the STAB moves. Tyrantrum can outspeed and threaten some offensive mons, like Hawlucha, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Barraskewda, just to cite a few. Although I'm aware that Tyrantrum is hopeless against Dragapult and defensive Pokemon, like Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Hippowdon, etc. Its role is to beat the slower offensive Pokemon I cited before with the proper move.

Scizor_XY.gif

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

This one is my pivot, Defogger, and sometimes a secondary Revenge Killer. Bullet Punch can beat sufficiently weakened mons and hit Fairy and Rock-types (2HKO Tyranitar after Stealth Rock damage). U-turn is important when I think the opponents will switch their Pokemon and this small damage assists my Sweepers. I'm using Defog alongside Roost to allow Scizor to clean the field multiple times.

Gyarados_XY_hembra.gif

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Substitute

This one is my Physical Sweeper. Waterfall is the only STAB move, thus, it is the main attack. Earthquake hits Electric-type Pokemon, while Substitute deals with Toxic/Thunder Wave and scout for Electric-type moves. Gyarados sometimes forces switches, and that's when I use Dragon Dance. Gyarados proved to be excellent, and when I replaced it with Swampert or Gastrodon I feel I lose firepower.

Gengar_XY_variocolor.gif

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot

This one is my Wallbreaker. Sludge Wave is the stronger STAB move and is addressed to Grass and Fairy-types. However, I usually use more Shadow Ball predicting a Steel-type Pokemon switching in. Speaking of this, Gengar forces switches that give the opportunity to use Nasty Plot. Thunderbolt is excellent to beat Water and Flying-types when the opponent predicts one of the two STABs.

Volcarona_XY.gif

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz

This one is my Special Sweeper. Fire Blast and Bug Buzz are two amazing STABs. Volcarona sometimes forces switches, and that's when I use Quiver Dance. The last slot was a very difficult decision because Psychic is excellent against Poison-type Pokemon, while Giga Drain hits Ground-types and at the same time provides a recovery. I encountered a lot of Hippowdon and Swampert, so that's why I've chosen Giga Drain for now.

Landorus_t%C3%B3tem_XY.gif

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Protect

This one is my leader and Stealth Rock setter. I must say that this one is a momentary replacement for Gliscor because it is unavailable for now. Nonetheless, I tried to replicate the same role. STAB Earthquake hits perhaps 1/3 of the metagame, and U-turn keeps momentum. The last slot of Gliscor is Roost, but as Landorus-T doesn't have recovery I used Protect to scout Ice-type moves.

Other Possibilities

Electric and/or Water-type answer (2)


Gastrodon_este_XY.gif

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

This one is my Electric and Water-type answer. Scald is good for the chance of burn. Earthquake is stronger than Earth Power, despite being physical. I still don't know how to use Recover properly, because Gastrodon is so slow, but when it works is fine. Toxic is here to spread status on the switches. When I replace Gyarados with Gastrodon I felt like the team became more balanced. The problem is I lost offense presence because Gyarados can threaten a lot of opposing Pokemon.

giphy.webp

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Toxic

This one is my Electric answer, Stealth Rock setter, and sometimes a pivot. Flip Turn allows me to form a duo with Scizor using U-turn gaining a lot of momentum. Swampert is very similar to Gastrodon because both use Earthquake and Toxic to spread status. In my tests, I wasn't able to properly use Swampert. Although it is not passive like Gastrodon, it's not fast and also very susceptible to Toxic, but at least Gastrodon has Recover.

Hazard-remover (1)

Mandibuzz_XY.gif

Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 144 SpD / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Roost
- Defog
- Knock Off

This one is my alternative Deffoger, letting perhaps Scizor use Swords Dance. Foul Play surprisingly causes a lot of damage against physical attackers. Knock Off is very useful in this meta, mainly against those Pokemon that rely on Heavy-Duty Boots and Leftovers. I'm using Defog alongside Roost to allow Mandibuzz to clean the field multiple times. This Pokemon is my main candidate for the sixth slot while Gliscor is not available.

Final Observations
If you have other sets/mons in mind, please share them with me. I would also appreciate it if you tell me which is the best combination of these Pokemon I listed. Thank you for your time, I hope you can help me!
 
nice team, some things I would shake up at a glance:
1. it would be really nice to have a knock off in the main team, I would change protect for knock off on lando(you just assume anything that can carry an ice move does, because most of the time they do)
2. this team's speed control is not that good, tyrantrum with scarf still gets outsped by the likes of dragapult
3. It might be nice to try screens on this team, as you have several mons that are kinda bulky but not really like volc,gya and tyrantrum and could use screens to get off attacks and setup more easily, regieleki or tapu koko(is tapu koko easy to get in swsh? dunno) could work to set up your other attackers.
4. I would try substitute on gengar, because while it is fast it still gets outsped by a lot of things, you said gengar forces switches, but if you nasty plot while they bring in for example zeraora you have to switch anyways,while if you sub up the zera is in a bit of a pickle

but anyways, if anyone else is gonna suggest advice, keep in mind that this team is going to be implemented in game, and timer mechanics there favor more aggressive teams
 
Thank you a lot for your feedback. I have two questions concerning your suggestions:

2. this team's speed control is not that good, tyrantrum with scarf still gets outsped by the likes of dragapult

Indeed I face a lot of pressure when the opponent sends Dragapult and some other threats. How can I improve the speed control?

3. It might be nice to try screens on this team, as you have several mons that are kinda bulky but not really like volc,gya and tyrantrum and could use screens to get off attacks and setup more easily, regieleki or tapu koko(is tapu koko easy to get in swsh? dunno) could work to set up your other attackers.

Isn't Screens more appropriate for Hyper Offensive archetypes? Do you think it could work on a [not so] Bulky Offensive?
 
well the way we would advise you to go would depend very much on what team members you feel are not up to par, if you could share some toughts on what you personally dont find working for you we might be able to give some more focused advice. I was thinking screens because your mons are kinda slowish, but relatively bulky, so screens can help them survive hits and hit back more easily, even though I agree this is not the most common screens team structure.
 
Here are some replays using this team. Apart from my personal lack of skill (sorry about that), we can see some flaws. I think I should carry a move to counter Garchomp, despite Tyrantrum being able to outspeed and KO it. Other staples, like Urshifu and Dragapult, are also a nightmare.

1- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1295417638
2- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1295420066
3- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1295429939

As you mentioned before, indeed my speed control is very deficient. Scizor's Bullet Punch doesn't have the firepower I needed to get rid of dangerous threats. What I'm thinking right now is how Gastrodon could help me in several situations I need a Pokemon to absorb damage. Besides, in the last match I wasn't even able to Defog, so maybe I need an alternative Defogger.
 
yh dragapult seems to be a massive threat to your team, but it also looks like a mon that you could use yourself, since it offers great speed control, and its dragon STAB helps with chomp, while its ghost STAB is just a pretty generally clickable move. maybe you could replace gengar with a choice specs set with draco/shadow ball/uturn/coverage move. I can see specially defensive gastrodon working instead of gyrados even though as you said, it is a pretty large change to the way the team works. Also maybe consider swapping tyrantrum to band, as from what I've seen it mostly tends to get hits in when it forces a switch, and for that you want to be hitting hard, not fast
 
Hey, man! I might not be the best builder, but I think I know how to improve your team. The first thing is that you have too many set up sweepers for bulky offense. BO teams will generally have one or two at most. With that being said, I decided to keep Volcarona and change things around it. I also kept Tyrantrum as 1. You obviously wanted it on the team and 2. it is cool to explore underutilized mons.

Major Changes:
Scizor.png
--->
Mandibuzz.png


You were correct that Mandibuzz would be an improvement for your team as it can handle Dragapult and Garchomp. It also can switch into Aegislash which is another issue since Scizor does not have Knock Off. The Speed is for Adamant Crawdaunt. I am not sure what the defensive EVs are for, but I am too lazy to make a custom spread rn. While you can run Knock Off on Mandibuzz, I would go U-turn to bring in your wallbreakers in safely.

Mandibuzz (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 144 SpD / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn/Knock Off

Gengar.png
--->
Dragapult.png


I don't think that Nasty Plot Gengar is appropriate here as it take some set-up and this team is a bit slow. I chose Dragapult over it because of the amazing speed tier and U-turn. This will help revenge kill Tapu Koko, Latios, Torn, and other things. Hex is not included because this team does not use stuff like Toxic or T-wave. Thunderbolt hits Mandibuzz and Tapu Fini.

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt

Gyrados.png
--->
Slowking.png


I wanted to replace Gyarados with a Water-type pivot to make the team sturdier and to counter Heatran. There were two options: Swampert, as you've previously mentioned, helps with Electrics and Slowking which handles Lele and can force Toxapex into a bad situtation via Future Sight. Ultimately, I decided Slowking was better overall.

Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Teleport
- Future Sight

Minor Changes:
Tyrantrum.png
(Choice Scarf)---> (Choice Band)
Since you have Dragapult for speed, Tyrantrum would be better as a wallbreaker for Volcarona. I have Jolly below since people are starting to realize how good Bisharp is along with unboosted Dragonite. You could run Adamant if you want. Ice Fang is nice for stuff like Lando-T. I don't think you need EQ as Heatran dies to CC and Toxapex takes more damage from Head Smash.

Tyrantrum @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Outrage
- Ice Fang
- Close Combat

Those are the exciting changes. In the full poképaste, you will find that I changed your Lando-T spread and Volcarona moveset. Lando-T has enough speed for Dracozolt without sand up The other number was for Magearna (I think) but that is banned. Rocky Helmet + Knock Off or Toxic could work as well. I also changed Volcarona to have Roost over Giga Drain to get more use out of it mid-game. The Defense EVs are make sure you always live Banded Urshifu's Aqua Jet from full. These changes aren't a big deal and you can ignore them if you want.

The only downsides I can think of are that you are weaker to Blissey, but that can be played around with Tyrantrum. I hope this helps until a more experienced rater can take a look at it.

Import Below:
https://pokepast.es/5a12a5d6f3fe5359

EDIT: Included Ice Fang
 
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Thank you very much for your suggestions glava222 and TheDraugr, I tried to follow most of them. Mandibuzz and Slowking are great (although I'm still learning how to play with these two). However, despite the ability of Slowking to take some hits, now I have only Volcarona to sweep. Speaking of Volcarona, without Giga Drain I think it became more vulnerable against opposing Water-type, but maybe it is a sign that I should switch more. I've kept Gengar, and even though it is slower than Dragapult, I could survive an Ice-type move and use Nasty Plot now and then. Furthermore, Gengar is a nice wallbreaker alongside Tyrantrum, and I think they both complement each other. Here are some replays if you guys are interested. I've lost almost all but that is useful to learn about the team and the metagame.

1- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1296692151
2- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1296697202
3- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1296699013
4- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1296707548
5- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1296728080
6- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1315984939
 
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