OU teaching new tricks to an old dog

minybob4

Hello everyone, I played gen 4 and 5 but not BW2. I got pokemon x and marveled at charizard renewed usability. I try to make this as much possible to reproduce in game as possible. Not playing BW2 also affects my ability to get mons via pokebank.

My first goal was to make a team that would allow charizard to sweep. While typing-wise I got pretty much everything covered, the synegy is somewhat lacking and pretty much each mon works on his own apart from my two pivots. Even then, it is mostly as being slow voltswitcher allows them to take a hit so the other mons come unscathed. This also makes this team play on autopilot. I'll try to get

Also, I have no real special sponge. I never had any problems with special attacker until now but if I'm likely to sac something so my revenge killers can do their job.

Now onto the team:


The members
charizard-mega-x.png
Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw

My main goal here while creating this team was to use charizard-x. This set is perhaps the standard DDer with earthquake to take care of aegislash. That said, aegislash is not that much of a nuisance to this team. The lack of recovery, hazards and recoil re taking a toll. Roost is considered but as of now, he does his job pretty well often netting 2+ kos. Most of the time, he will mega-evolve when he enters the fray and will rather try to punch through teams midgame. The set-up gives me the option to do an endgame sweep but he generally doesn't last that long.

garchomp.png
Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Crunch

He mostly fills my revenge killer role, outspeeding base 100 +1. This one is more of a toss-up. I thought I needed a scarfer and simply took a generic garchomp set slap a scarf on him and call it a day. He carries his weight but he is not the most essential member of this team. Crunch is somewhat of a liability as it lacks any real purpose. I like to stay and use a safe move when i get in. Outrage would allow late game sweep but i dislike the commitment involved with outrage.

rotom-wash.png
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Trick
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch

With azumarill and talonflame being unleashed, rotom-w seemed the only reliable answer. I had no real plans on how to use him so i instead went with something generic. Hydro pump is a nice fire and forget stab coupled with choice specs. WoW helps dealing with physical attacker (looking at luke, azumarill and khangaskan). Trick makes a little surprise for either stall or physical mon staying on him. Volt switch is a mixed bag. I find it extremely useful, it helps create momentum, it is a stab, it is boosted by specs and it allows free switch-in when i predict right, but it forces me out. Azumarill clearly doesnt like being hit with volt switch but then, i'm not killing it and i must send someone else to take her out.

greninja.png
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
- Surf

Greninja acts as a reliable special attacker. He can take care of opposing gliscor which can be a pain to deal with unless i have rocks up and dd'ed once. He basically is an ice type that does not suffer from rocks. Stab on every move is fun and all but i like him for its ability to form an offensive voltturn core alongside rotom. (let's face it, he isnt defensive at all.) He mostly cover my lack of special attacker. He was a somewhat hasty decision that paid very well.

aegislash.png
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 240 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef / 12 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance

Shiny new toy everyone seems to be talking about. Mostly here based on other opinions. He does in fact merit the praise he receives. His ability allows him to come on a couple of things set-up and then proceed to sweep. The set is somewhat standard. To be honest, i often find more opportunities to setup with him than with charizard. stab iron head helps against fairy allowing char and garchomp an easier time. In a pinch, shadow sneak can revenge kill. I guess he can use sacred sword and/or shadow ball instead of sword dance to somewhat alleviate my need of sp.attacker or my weakness to physical wall. minor change to hp to get a lefti number.


excadrill.png
Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide

Newest member of the team and worked quite well. He is a better spinner and has an easier time setting rocks. I actually see him as an improvement in nearly every single way. The only niche Forretress has on him is a slow volt switch. I think this set is pretty much basic. Without sandstorm, I had no real use for sand rush and mold breaker let me set up rocks through magic coat (i guess). His coverage seems a bit redundant though. He is my third mon with EQ and rock slide can pretty much only hit mega pinsir if balloon is up. Unless I predict a switch, most of the things i'd hit with the latter scares him out.

Retired members:

forretress.png
Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Gyro Ball

This one is the one giving me the most trouble. I want rocks on the field. The distribution is limited this gen. I've used forry in ou gen 4, uber gen 4, gen 5 and i know that although he is a reliable spinner and hazard setter, it is really easy to abuse him. I built him to try and alleviate this weakness, hence, the Volt switch. Most of the time ill switch him in to take a hit, ponder if i can spin or set rocks reliably, do so or volt out to bring someone safely. Most of the time i won't lead with him as it feels obvious. same as above

After experimenting with Excadrill, I decided to leave Forretress. He has trouble carrying his own weight. Volt Switch is his only saving grace and it can only go so far.

Conc: I'm still toying with it but from what i can see, status could be one of my big problems. I thought about magnezone to set the ground for both garchomp and charizard but then they dont really mind steel types.

Importable

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 240 HP / 4 SDef / 12 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- King's Shield

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 248 HP / 8 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- U-turn
 
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One thing about Aegislash: If Lvl. 100 battles: Drop 16 of his EVs from HP into Speed (Speed creep, lowering HP by 4 points). This gives his HP an even divide by 16 (not huring your leftovers), but ups your speed creep, letting you get the drop on other Aegislash since Ghost is self weak.
If lvl. 50... trade 56 EVs from HP to Speed. This loses you 7 HP, but for a bit more speed creep for the same reason. (All this is because Leftovers round down the HP gained, thus you gain as much HP each turn for a slight Max HP loss and a slight speed creep).
A similar change to Forretress, setting his HP to either Lvl 50 176, or Lvl 100 352, but going for Attack instead of speed. Slight bit more damage.

Status effects could hamper you a bit... BUT 2 of your three physical attackers can be burnt, which may require a predictable(?) switch to Charizard, possibly setting you up. Paralysis (Usually via TWave) is the same story but with Garchomp taking the lead, and Poison just the same but with Aegislash OR Forrtress. Nobody likes Rest/Freeze, but they aren't huge threats what with the sleep clause and the difficulty in freezing anything reliably. Really, status dependent mons give you a good chance to set up if you suspect that's their prime duty, as you may force a switch and get a chance to set up (Unless it's Sableye... prankster taunt and all), so there's something to think about as far as strategy.

One little thing you MAY need to worry about: Earthquake. CharX and Aegislash are both weak to it, Rotom too if the foe has Mold Breaker, and Greninja is frail anyways. Garchomp isn't exactly a defensive wall, and still takes neutral damage (and may be able to outspeed and KO... Maybe). Fortress won't exactly scare off any users of EQ, and still takes neutral damage as well. If Rotom falls, or in a mold breaker situation, you could have a problem.

Overall, I'd say a great team that covers itself pretty well. You definatly want to get those hazards out quickly though. Definalty change those EVs, and think about the rest. Also, if you get a chance, check my team out. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/wifi-and-ou-rag-tag-team.3494330/#post-5039268
 
I would replace aegislash with trevenant. Its a ghost type with an immunity to spore and it isnt weak to earthquake like aegislash is. It also has a better movepool with a solid attack stat of base 110. I would consider it.
 
TheDeathJester
That is just your opinion really. What does Trevenant do to aid this team? I'm not saying Trevenant is bad or anything, but still. Also, what set for Trevenant is most helpful? Either way, I prefer Aegislash as it is very tricky and I feel it fits nicely with this team. Also, Trevenant has worse stats literally everywhere besides HP... Aegislash has an astounding 150 Defense / 150 Special Defense or 150 Attack / 150 Special Attack, at its whim, does Trevenant?
 
Trevenant brings a nice resistance but then i feel like it wouldnt have any real purpose. aegislash can spin block, revenge kill, setup on a couple of things and renders other ineffective with king shield. I feel trevenant would mean another physical wall with average offensive prowess (which i'm not lacking of in my team). It would be better to deal with excadrill though. As of now, if mold breaker balloon, i pretty much need forry to pop it and then revenge kill. If it is sand rush then rotom can burn him.
Also, i changed some of the EV to ge ta better leftie number. (read somewhere the goal was to get a number which could be divided by 16 and add one because it was rounded up.)
 
Forrtress in this metagame is almost completely outclassed by Excadrill. Any ghost can come safely in forrtress and set up (hi aegislash) so is not a good spinner. Excadrills spinn can only be blocked safely by trevenant, and even he needs to be at full health if he wants to survive two iron heads. Excadrill can also use stealth rock and provide an offensive force. Dont forget this thing was über last time.
 
Why does everyone think Rotom-W is the "answer" to everything...It's a GOOD answer to most things, but certainly not the best to everything apparently...Anyways, Forrtress shouldn't be seeing much play in the current Meta. As it was started by Alejandro, Exca is an option again and it's been seeing a great amount of unique play. But to replace Forrtress for the meta is it's biggest concern for your team. It'll outclass it, and always out do it. So why not run it? Also I wouldn't run two Dragons on a team in this meta...Don't Forget that Fairies are a deadly variable to put into consideration.

TheDeathJester said:
I would replace aegislash with trevenant. Its a ghost type with an immunity to spore and it isnt weak to earthquake like aegislash is. It also has a better movepool with a solid attack stat of base 110. I would consider it.
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Also saying it has a "better" movepool is your complete opinion. The team would benefit from Aegislash or Treavant, he wants to use Aegi so let him. I like the Idea of Aegislash on this team anyways, it makes a lot more sense over Treavant...
 
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minybob4 said:
Also, i changed some of the EV to ge ta better leftie number. (read somewhere the goal was to get a number which could be divided by 16 and add one because it was rounded up.)
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You're right. My mistake, my suggested EV numbers were 1 lower than they ought to have been. It's been too long since I'd done those calcs and totally forgot the rounding formula and how leftovers work on a small scale. Glad my advice helped though. And looking more solidly at your team, you can dodge a non-Mold Breaker EQ by switching to Rotom, and either hurt them if they're a ground type, or do a low speed Volt Switch into a solution if they aren't. If Fort is still alive, you could use him to pull out a solution if Rotom is out too.

You've got a nice team with some sound synergy and viable strategy. Something to consider on Garchomp though: Crunch isn't exactly useful against anything that isn't better hit with a STAB EQ or Dragon Claw as far as defensive threats are concerned, and with Stone Edge you can choose to hit things neutrally if you know a switch is inevitable and want to hurt the incoming. Something that might fill that move pool a bit better might be Fire Fang. I know it's weaker than all your other moves, and doesn't get STAB, but there IS a plus side worth noting: Forty and Scissor are good defensive options with only one weakness, at 4x, to Fire (Not to forget Ferrothorn). With the added benefit of Flinch and Burn chances, it can give you a bit more survivability and Burns are always nice (only mentioning because Crunch's secondary effect is lackluster compairitively). It also has the added boon of being rather surprising, as most people would rather expect a whole list of other moves from Garchomp. Sure, it would give him identical coverage as Char (but w/ a rock move too), but those two fill different item roles and have different resistances, it might give you the surprise you need to win. Of course, if you wait until post bank, you can just grab Aqua Tail and really mess with people.
 
Shameless bump... Anyway i've tried porting this team to handheld and im 4.5 out of 6 done. I've tried excadrill and liked him (changes will be added later tonight) but srocks is hard to get in x/y. Are they as needed? Are hazards as needed? I need removal though. Who can offer it and somekind of utility for this team? Thats what i'm dancing around these days.
 
minybob4 said:
Shameless bump... Anyway i've tried porting this team to handheld and im 4.5 out of 6 done. I've tried excadrill and liked him (changes will be added later tonight) but srocks is hard to get in x/y. Are they as needed? Are hazards as needed? I need removal though. Who can offer it and somekind of utility for this team? Thats what i'm dancing around these days.
Click to expand...
In handheld/Wifi I never really worry about setting Rocks, it's easier to prevent them and gives you time to set up buff's. Buff's over power Rocks in Wifi in my opinion. It's easier to take a turn Swords Dancing then it is Setting Rocks. Or Espeon Calm Minding Magic Bouncing then spinning overall. But it's up to you, I consider Wifi x/Y Casual.
 
Just one really small thing here i used to run that exact same set on aegislash but after playing 200+ games with it (yea i know i play a lot) i ended up droping iron head for sacred sword as it just offers better coverage, it hits normal and dark types harder, your team also has no other fighting types making tanky t-tar sets problematic for your team, I would also highly recomend an air baloon on aegislash, you would be suprised how many people use eq anyway not noticing the baloon, allowing you to set up freely while they waste another move to pop the baloon. anyway i don't have the time for a full rate, that was just the one thing that pop'd out at me, hope it helps.
 
this was a change i already made but never took the time to update my team. Now it is done. Im playing woth a defog scizor, as it can remove hazards, keep an offensive presence and perform slow u-turns for my frail pokemons. I have mandibuzz and skarmory though and i will try them to see what works best.
 
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