OU Team- HELP!

[papainfernape95]

FIRST GLANCE

Introduction

The idea behind this team was to get up as many layers of entry hazards as possible (Stealth Rock for general residual damage, Toxic Spikes to discourage stalling) and spread paralysis and burn support to help Lucario sweep late-game. I didn't want one Pokémon doing all the work, so I spread it out and only chose one late-game sweeper, and made it a reliable one. Every type is resisted twice except Rock.

I like this team and chose to RMT it for several reasons. One, it's adapatable. If I'm playing against a stall team, Toxic Spikes take their toll, and I can stall for a few turns waiting for them to take effect, while the opposing Pokémon is forced to switch out. Against offensive teams, I can status all their major players and then sweep. But, this team does require a lot of thinking for me to use when I play it, and it needs a few kinks worked out to help it reach its potential. But that's where you come in! So, without further ado...

THE TEAM IN DETAIL:

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spd/4 HP
Nature: Naive(+Spd, -SpD)​

-Stealth Rock
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Explosion​

WHAT IT DOES: Shucatran is probably the best lead I've ever used. I used to think of it as only a revenge killer, but it has several advantages over other leads. Because of its above average, solid defenses and Shuca Berry, it's not OHKOed by any attack any lead carries in the game. Therefore, I am almost guaranteed to get my SR up. Also, thanks to its beautiful SpA stat, I can attack other leads for great damage, even before getting Stealth Rock up. If I think a lead is going to Taunt me anyway, like a lot of Aerodactyl do, I just attack. If they do Taunt me, their Taunt is wasted and they've lost a lot of HP while I'm still at full HP, and they're probably forced to switch out while I ravage the team and wait for the Taunt to wear off. If they don't, next turn I know it's safe to SR. Against non-Taunt leads, I can SR first turn and then just start hitting things. Explosion is GREAT if I decide not to play Heatran like a suicide lead, because it can come in and kill whatever's threatening my team, and it's also wonderful to be able to KABOOM on Blissey.​

WEAKNESSES GO TO:
Water- Celebi, Tentacruel
Fighting- Celebi, Tentacruel, Rotom-H, sometimes Togekiss
Ground- Celebi, Rotom-H, Togekiss​

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Nature: Bold(+Def, -Atk)​

-Thunder Wave
-Grass Knot
-Recover
-Perish Song​

WHAT IT DOES: This is a defensive Celebi, here to cripple the opponent's team a bit through paralysis support to help Lucario sweep, and to stall out especially tenacious opposing stallers. A lot of Celebi's switch-ins, like Salamence and Tyranitar, hate getting hit by Thunder Wave, so it's always the move I use when I first bring out Celebi to make sure they don't get a chance to set up. Grass Knot is obvious STAB and Recover is great for healing. Natural Cure, its ability, is also great for switching out when I get Toxic poisoned or am gettting parahaxed. The last move was filler. This Celebi is good at inflicting status, but I feel like a better move to help support the team could be used in place of Hidden Power Ice, because the only use it ever sees is revenging Salamence after it's been paralyzed. Any suggestions for the last slot are welcome, but otherwise I'm very happy with Celebi. Perish Song has now been put in over Hidden Power Ice, as it helps me to get rid of troublesome stat boosters. Adding Ice Beam on Tentacruel lets me still have some sort of check for Dragons (hopefully they've been paralyzed so I'm fast enough to kill them before I'm killed).​

WEAKNESSES GO TO:
Fire- Heatran, Tentacruel
Ice- Heatran, Tentacruel
Poison- Heatran, Tentacruel, Rotom-H, Lucario
Flying- Heatran, Rotom-H
Bug- EVERYONE ELSE
Ghost- Heatran, Togekiss, Lucario
Dark- Heatran, Lucario​

Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 SDef
Nature: Calm(+SDef, -Atk)​

-Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin
-Ice Beam
-Surf​

WHAT IT DOES: Honestly, if I had to pick a weak link for this team it'd be Tentacruel. I really needed a Toxic Spiker, because otherwise stallers would kill me, and a Rapid Spinner, so that Spikes doesn't strip Lucario's health when it comes in to sweep. Tentacruel isn't as durable as my other Pokémon, especially on the physical side, so it dies rather quickly, sometimes even getting only one layer of Toxic Spikes up, which isn't nearly as effective as two. Also, it is difficult to switch in until the middle of the game or late into the game, when it's too late to get your Toxic Spikes up to do any real good. It's by no means bad, but I feel as though it could be better, and Tentacruel feels like the oddball of the team right now. Ice Beam was put in over Sludge Bomb for better coverage.​

WEAKNESSES GO TO:
Electric- Celebi, Rotom-H
Psychic- Heatran, Celebi
Ground- Celebi, Rotom-H, Togekiss​

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spe
Nature: Bold(+Def, -Atk)​

-Discharge
-Shadow Ball
-Overheat
-Will-O-Wisp​

WHAT IT DOES: This is probably my MVP for the team. Rotom-A is of course my spin-blocker, but he does much more. He counters a lot of the current top threats (cough cough SCIZOR!!! ....and Gyarados and others) and Will-O-Wisps the physical attackers that could give my team trouble, like (surprise!) Scizor, Tyranitar, Metagross, etc. Most people don't realize just how bulky he is, and with my wish support (coming from Togekiss here in a minute) he can stick around for a good long while. Simple but effective to use- definitely a favorite. Discharge was put in over Thunderbolt for its higher paralysis chance.​

WEAKNESSES GO TO:
Ghost- Heatran, Togekiss, Lucario
Dark- Heatran, Lucario​

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/20 Def/236 Spe
Nature: Timid​

-Encore
-Wish
-Air Slash
-Thunder Wave​

WHAT IT DOES: And here is my other favorite. Togekiss is my secondary Thunder Wave supporter, and also an Encore and Wish supporter. Togekiss does great at screwing up opponents' strategies. We're all familiar with Thunder Wave, I'm sure. Encore is useful after paralysis for stat-up moves like Bulk Up or Curse (or really anything but Calm Mind or Amnesia) or moves Togekiss is immune to or resists (hi Earthquake), because Togekiss is then free to Wish if it needs to heal or pass one to a teammate, or to paraflinch hax and wear down the opponent with an Air Slash that's actually got quite a bit of power behind it. Togekiss works absolute wonders on this team, and definitely has synergy with the other members. He's not going anywhere.​

WEAKNESSES GO TO:
Electric- Celebi, Rotom-A
Ice- Heatran, Tentacruel, Lucario
Rock- Lucario​

Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 216 HP/252 Atk/40 Spd
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)​

-Dynamicpunch
-Stone Edge
-Payback
-Substitute​

WHAT IT DOES: Machamp works pretty well with this team. (He replaced Lucario.) He comes in late-game, hopefully with everything being slower than himself, and sets up a Sub if necessary, then sweeps. I say "if necessary" because sometimes, I'll have paralyzed everything on the other team, so I know I'm not getting hit and I can just sweep. Or, I might have gotten Toxiced and my time may be running out so there's no time to Sub and I just have to go for the sweep. Other than that, pretty straightforward. The only Pokémon getting past this is Gliscor. Paralysis support is essential though, because without it Machamp is simply too slow and will die.​

​

SPECIFIC TEAM ISSUES​

- Aromatherapist Blissey. I only have one physical attacker, and it is invulnerable to Toxic Spikes unlike other Blissey. Machamp can still beat it, but if it somehow gets in after Machamp faints I'm screwed.​

-Calm Minders. Again, this is largely due to my lack of physical attackers. Perish Song does help compensate for this, though.​

Thanks for reading and don't forget to rate!!​

 

[Delko]

hello

Do you know that spikes is a entryhazard too? That can really benefit your strategy.

For Celebi I suggest another moveset/ EV's spread.

Celebi @ life orb/ modest/ natural cure
6HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spe

- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- HP fire
- Recover

--> This will let you get the upper hand against Tyranitar (if TS and SR are down). Leaf Storm will KO'it if it has taken some damage before. Leaf Storm is also a OHKO on Swampert. HP fire is for Scizor that likes to switch in on Celebi and is a OHKO even after the SAtk drop from Leaf Storm.

You should also consider Toxic on Tentacruel for levitating foes, or Ice Beam will be okay too.

On Togekiss, I suggest Aura Sphere over Thunder Wave, because with Toxic Spikes up, the only types that are unnafected by that are steel and poison types, and levitating foes. Steel types aren't know for there super speed. And Air Slash barely scratch their hide. Aura Sphere deals a lot of more damage. You can also go with Flamethrower, for the same reason, with the addition of hitting poison types (who are mostly part grass) for SE damage. Downside is that Heatran could get a free switch in and since you haven't have a really good Heatran counter (Tentacruel does only okay) the best one is Aura Sphere. Besides you already have T-wave on Celebi.

Hope I helped ^^

 

[Sei]

For Celebi I suggest another moveset/ EV's spread.

Celebi @ life orb/ modest/ natural cure
6HP, 252 SAtk, 252 Spe

- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- HP fire
- Recover

Sadly it really isn't a KO on Scizor with the -2 SpA drop, but it's a good effort nonetheless.

163 Atk vs 196 Def & 343 HP (70 Base Power): 220 - 260 (64.14% - 75.80%)

I don't really see the need for speed beyond the 252 (68 EV), which is the speed to outrun Jolly CB Scizor.
Try the EV and IV spread below.

Celebi @ Life orb
Natural Cure
Modest (+SpA,-Atk)
EV: 188 HP/252 SpA/68 Spe
IV: 31 HP/26 Atk/31 Def/30 SpA/31 SpD/30 Spe
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- HP Fire
- Recover

 

[Legacy Raider]

You are very weak to DD Tyranitar. Toxic Spikes should somewhat help keep it in check if you have them up before it comes in, but I see a dangerous potential here for it to set up on your Heatran lead. Lets say first turn as you Stealth Rock with Heatran, Tyranitar comes in. Earth Power does an average of 41.5% to Tyranitar as it DDs up. A +1 Jolly Tyranitar without any boosting item will OHKO a full health Heatran with Earthquake through Shuca Berry 87.5% of the time. Having set up here, Tyranitar can then proceed to dismantle your team with Stone Edge / Crunch / Earthquake. Without a boosting item, it will OHKO everything bar Celebi on your team with the respective super effective attack. If it has Life Orb, it has a guaranteed OHKO on Celebi with Crunch after SR, and will OHKO 75% of the time without SR. That is a scary weakness there, so it's the first thing you should address.

The defensive core of Heatran, Celebi, Tentacruel and Rotom is very solid, and is a big part of your status strategy, so I don't want to really touch that. Togekiss and Lucario seem a bit thrown in on top. You've said in your RMT that you don't want to replace Togekiss, so Lucario is the one I'm going to consider changing here. Lucario is an excellent sweeper, we all know that, but it's not the only thing that can sweep late game with a bit of paralysis support. I'm going to go for something a bit unorthodox here and suggest you use Machamp over Lucario:

Machamp @ Leftovers | No Guard
Adamant | 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
DynamicPunch / Stone Edge / Payback / Substitute

With this change I'd also give your Rotom Discharge over Thunderbolt. Heatran is a common switchin for Rotom and is immune to both your Toxic Spikes and Rotom's Will-o-Wisp, so being able to catch it with a high paralysis chance is very helpful. That, along with your other two paralysis inducers in Celebi and Togekiss, should spread sufficient paralysis around the opposing team to make Machamp's job an easy one. Substitute Machamp against a slowed down team is absolute hell. The best thing about Machamp though is that it covers up your Tyranitar weakness pretty well without ruining the defensive synergy you've been working to achieve. And this set is really just as much a threat as Lucario, if not more, to the standard stall team.

If you don't want to use Machamp to cover your weakness to Tyranitar, you could instead consider giving your Togekiss a Choice Scarf and Aura Sphere to give you a good revenge killer for Tyranitar. This is another set you could try:

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf | Serene Grace
Timid | 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Air Slash / Aura Sphere / Fire Blast / Trick

This is another set that will give a paralyzed team a very hard time. With Timid and the EVs it outspeeds Timid ScarfTran and neutral scarfed base 90s such as Modest Roserade and Porygon-Z, as well as everything below. It can be used to revenge kill a wide range of threats, including Dragon Dance Tyranitar with Aura Sphere, and Adamant Gyarados and Infernape with Air Slash.

Anyway give either Machamp or Scarf Kiss a try, it should help cover your team better against the massive theat DD Ttar poses. Good luck.

 

[papainfernape95]

You are very weak to DD Tyranitar. Toxic Spikes should somewhat help keep it in check if you have them up before it comes in, but I see a dangerous potential here for it to set up on your Heatran lead. Lets say first turn as you Stealth Rock with Heatran, Tyranitar comes in. Earth Power does an average of 41.5% to Tyranitar as it DDs up. A +1 Jolly Tyranitar without any boosting item will OHKO a full health Heatran with Earthquake through Shuca Berry 87.5% of the time. Having set up here, Tyranitar can then proceed to dismantle your team with Stone Edge / Crunch / Earthquake. Without a boosting item, it will OHKO everything bar Celebi on your team with the respective super effective attack. If it has Life Orb, it has a guaranteed OHKO on Celebi with Crunch after SR, and will OHKO 75% of the time without SR. That is a scary weakness there, so it's the first thing you should address.

The defensive core of Heatran, Celebi, Tentacruel and Rotom is very solid, and is a big part of your status strategy, so I don't want to really touch that. Togekiss and Lucario seem a bit thrown in on top. You've said in your RMT that you don't want to replace Togekiss, so Lucario is the one I'm going to consider changing here. Lucario is an excellent sweeper, we all know that, but it's not the only thing that can sweep late game with a bit of paralysis support. I'm going to go for something a bit unorthodox here and suggest you use Machamp over Lucario:

Machamp @ Leftovers | No Guard
Adamant | 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
DynamicPunch / Stone Edge / Payback / Substitute

With this change I'd also give your Rotom Discharge over Thunderbolt. Heatran is a common switchin for Rotom and is immune to both your Toxic Spikes and Rotom's Will-o-Wisp, so being able to catch it with a high paralysis chance is very helpful. That, along with your other two paralysis inducers in Celebi and Togekiss, should spread sufficient paralysis around the opposing team to make Machamp's job an easy one. Substitute Machamp against a slowed down team is absolute hell. The best thing about Machamp though is that it covers up your Tyranitar weakness pretty well without ruining the defensive synergy you've been working to achieve. And this set is really just as much a threat as Lucario, if not more, to the standard stall team.

If you don't want to use Machamp to cover your weakness to Tyranitar, you could instead consider giving your Togekiss a Choice Scarf and Aura Sphere to give you a good revenge killer for Tyranitar. This is another set you could try:

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf | Serene Grace
Timid | 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Air Slash / Aura Sphere / Fire Blast / Trick

This is another set that will give a paralyzed team a very hard time. With Timid and the EVs it outspeeds Timid ScarfTran and neutral scarfed base 90s such as Modest Roserade and Porygon-Z, as well as everything below. It can be used to revenge kill a wide range of threats, including Dragon Dance Tyranitar with Aura Sphere, and Adamant Gyarados and Infernape with Air Slash.

Anyway give either Machamp or Scarf Kiss a try, it should help cover your team better against the massive theat DD Ttar poses. Good luck.

I think I'll try the Machamp set. I had just heard good things about Lucario and wanted to give it a try. Just a question though, is 252 the optimal EV number for Machamp's Subs/Lefties recovery? I'd still like to get as much Speed as possible on Machamp, and if I don't need 252 it'd be great to put those into Speed. I'm not a math whiz so I don't really know what you're supposed to do to figure that out. It definitely sounds like an option though, thanks! Oh and I'll implement Discharge on Rotom-H. Any suggestions for Celebi's last slot? I don't want to change the entire set like others suggested.

 

[papainfernape95]

bumping this.

And also, since the lack of physical attackers is smacking me around becuase CMers are rampant, could a Double Powder Breloom set work in Celebi's place? I don't sacrifice spreading status and I can do some actual physical damage.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

I agree with what LR suggested, but I'd run a spread of 216 hp/252 att/ 40 spe to get the jump on Blissey before it can status you. I'd also change Sludge Bomb to Ice Beam so Salamence won't set up on you, and it still hits grass types hard. I'd also change Rotom-H's moveset, because a combination of Scizor+ DDGyara will wear it down to the point that Gyarados can sweep. I'd go with the restalk set. It'll allow you to have reliable recovery and still hurt your opponents.

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
252 hp/120 def/136 SpD
-Discharge
-Will o Wisp
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

I'd stick with Discharge for the reasons LR stated. Good luck with the team!

 

[papainfernape95]

I agree with what LR suggested, but I'd run a spread of 216 hp/252 att/ 40 spe to get the jump on Blissey before it can status you. I'd also change Sludge Bomb to Ice Beam so Salamence won't set up on you, and it still hits grass types hard. I'd also change Rotom-H's moveset, because a combination of Scizor+ DDGyara will wear it down to the point that Gyarados can sweep. I'd go with the restalk set. It'll allow you to have reliable recovery and still hurt your opponents.

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
252 hp/120 def/136 SpD
-Discharge
-Will o Wisp
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

I'd stick with Discharge for the reasons LR stated. Good luck with the team!

I put in Discharge and I like it, and Machamp's working just fine, though I'll defintely be changing those EVs. I'll update the original post. I can put in Ice Beam too, I've actually been meaning to do it myself. A question though, even if I do change Rotom-H, won't I still have an issue with Calm Minders, specifically Jirachi? Jirachi's immune to TS, so it can come in and do whatever the hell it wants. I've been swept by one thrice in a row. Could putting Perish Song in Celebi's last slot help? Others are pretty well dealt with by TS though. Thanks sprinkles!

 

[The SPrinkLer]

That could help, as T-Wave cripples dragons(bar Flygon) anyway.

 

[papainfernape95]

Changes have been put in now, and are in pink. I'd like you all to rate again because I'm still losing about 40% of the time. My ladder rating's only 1169. Which sucks (yes, I'm a perfectionist).

 

[Nosferalto]

To tell you the truth, I don't seem to understand what role Togekiss accomplishes.

WHAT IT DOES: And here is my other favorite. Togekiss is my secondary Thunder Wave supporter, and also an Encore and Wish supporter. Togekiss does great at screwing up opponents' strategies. We're all familiar with Thunder Wave, I'm sure. Encore is useful after paralysis for stat-up moves like Bulk Up or Curse (or really anything but Calm Mind or Amnesia) or moves Togekiss is immune to or resists (hi Earthquake), because Togekiss is then free to Wish if it needs to heal or pass one to a teammate, or to paraflinch hax and wear down the opponent with an Air Slash that's actually got quite a bit of power behind it. Togekiss works absolute wonders on this team, and definitely has synergy with the other members. He's not going anywhere.

According to your descriptions, Togekiss is your wisher and second Thunder wave supporter. However, the way I see it is that the set that you are using on Togekiss makes him an inferior Wish Blissey. Togekiss doesn't bring much to the table, and I don't see how it has lots of synergy with the team as it's resistances are pointless. Let's see what types it resists: Ground is already handled by Rotom-H and Celebi, Bug is handled by Heatran, Tentacruel and Rotom, and Grass is handled by Celebi and Heatran. I think we can both agree now that Togekiss is pretty useless on this team. Blissey does the exact same job as Togekiss except it does it better with better HP, special defence. The most important thing it accomplishes over Togekiss is that it counters electric types barring Electivire (who sucks anyway) and most importantly Gengar. Electric types like Specs Jolteon and Zapdos usually have no problem sweeping this team, same thing for Gengar who can just out-speeds every member of your team and OHKO'es it with the respective move.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure / Bold
EVs: 252 Def / 40 SpAtk / 216 SpDef
-Ice Beam
-Thunder Wave
-Wish
-Protect / Softboiled

Good Luck with the team.

 

[papainfernape95]

To tell you the truth, I don't seem to understand what role Togekiss accomplishes.

According to your descriptions, Togekiss is your wisher and second Thunder wave supporter. However, the way I see it is that the set that you are using on Togekiss makes him an inferior Wish Blissey. Togekiss doesn't bring much to the table, and I don't see how it has lots of synergy with the team as it's resistances are pointless. Let's see what types it resists: Ground is already handled by Rotom-H and Celebi, Bug is handled by Heatran, Tentacruel and Rotom, and Grass is handled by Celebi and Heatran. I think we can both agree now that Togekiss is pretty useless on this team. Blissey does the exact same job as Togekiss except it does it better with better HP, special defence. The most important thing it accomplishes over Togekiss is that it counters electric types barring Electivire (who sucks anyway) and most importantly Gengar. Electric types like Specs Jolteon and Zapdos usually have no problem sweeping this team, same thing for Gengar who can just out-speeds every member of your team and OHKO'es it with the respective move.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure / Bold
EVs: 252 Def / 40 SpAtk / 216 SpDef
-Ice Beam
-Thunder Wave
-Wish
-Protect / Softboiled

Good Luck with the team.

See, I considered a Blissey, but I don't really think it fits, because 1) it can't take physical hits at all, and I wanted most of my members to have decent bulk on both sides of the spectrum, and 2) it has no offensive prowess whatsoever, and my intent was for each member to be able to attack effectively after supporting. So I don't think I want to go with WishBliss, though if you know another T-wave and Wish supporter that would fit I'm open to more offensive suggestions.

EDIT: Could Jirachi work for that role?