OU Team that has put me into Shoddy Top 100

Luphrous

Indeed, this team has gotten me there, and even beaten a few skilled Smogonites on the way, although I won't be listing names, there's a difference between being happy you've beaten someone good, and just plain gloating. The only downsides are that I can't use Shoddy 'till Monday so I will probably have lost that spot by then, and my Shoddy name is the ever crappy 123abc...bleh..
Anyways, on to the team
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Zapdos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EV's: Unfortunately, I am unable to use Shoddy as of now so I cannot identify his exact EV's, however I opted to post this RMT now because I do know what speed he hits with his EV's.
252 SpA. His speed with scarf hits 472. Rest of EV's in HP.
Nature: Timid
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Drill Peck
-U-Turn
My lead, Zapdos. While he doesn't cover all leads, Ttar and the Hippo give him problems, his speed is still a good way to start off the match, and he has caught quite a few Salamence with HP Ice on the first turn. U-Turn is also nice, especially when they lead with Gyarados. His bulkiness is helpful for switches, and his speed makes a him a good counter for a once DD'ed Dos and ScarfChomp. His speed also puts him above quite a few pokes who hang around with ScarfChomp.
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Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EV's: Same problem as w/ Zapdos. 252 SpA. EV's allow him to hit 412 Speed, rest in Hp
Nature: Timid
-Fire Blast
-HP Ice
-Earth Power
-Explosion
Yes, another Scarf. The nature may seem overkill with the scarf, but I like outspeeding ScarfCross, and I invested enough EV's to outspeed pokes who try to just outspeed ScarfCross. He also gets an extra speed point here, another reason why I put in so many EV's. Heatran can be a real monster, and he fits into my team quite well, getting plenty of opportunities to switch in with my 3 Fire weaks. F-Blast, HP Ice, and Earth Power are for coverage, Explosion to damage/kill a threat.
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Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Ev's:252HP, 8Def, 180SpA, 64SpD.
Nature:Relaxed
-Hypnosis
-Stealth Rock
-Gyro Ball
-HP Electric
The only true support/wall poke on the team, Bronzong's many resists make him perfect for this team and his role. He adds S-rocks and Hypnosis for me, and counters Gyarados, Weavile, Mamoswine, Non CB Ttar, and punishes many fast frail sweepers with Gyro Ball. EV's look odd, but do serve a purpose. Many people like to send in thier Vaporeon's on my Zong and Sub up. For the longest time I forgot I couldnt break those subs, so I used HP Elec and now they had a free sub. The EV's in SpA make HP Elec do 24.33-28.57% to a Bold, 188HP Vaporeon.HP Elec also 2HKO's Gyara with out a doubt now. My Defence is also one point lower than SpD so that should a Download Porygon-Z ever switch in on Zong, he raises attack, not SpA.
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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EV's: It's Bulkydos
Nature: Adamant
-DD
-Taunt
-Waterfall
-EQ
Bulkydos, he takes fighting attacks, and can of course set up on walls and sweep. This guy does real well and provides a very needed taunt, not to mention he is the only poke that can set up and sweep on my team. I would like suggestions for my attacking moves..I would like SE on there, but really want Waterfall for STAB and EQ for coverage....
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Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EV's: 252 Att. 252 Speed, 6HP
Nature: Jolly
-CC
-Megahorn
-Pursuit
-SE
Ah, Heracross. This spot has troubled me before, I tried CB Gross and CB Machamp, but they just didn't do what I wanted. I needed someone to beat Cresselia, who somewhat walls this team, which Gross could do, but he didn't seem to do much else. I tried Machamp, and while he worked really well, he didn't help at all with Cressy. Finally I added Heracross, and I couldn't be happier. Handles Cress, Guts is a great ability, and even though Gliscor walls this all day, the rest of my team(not Bronzong) has no problem with Gliscor. I am also loving Pursuit, I was unsure about it before, but I now absolutely love the move, it cripples fleeing Psychics. I know I have quite a bit of Speed, but honestly I just have a problem with wanted too much speed, it's very nice to know that I outspeed quite a few pokes
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Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
Ev's: 252 Att, 252 Speed, 6HP
Nature:Jolly
-EQ
-Ice Fang
-Ice Shard
-SE
The Almighty Mamoswine..this thing is simply a beast. Nature and EV's outspeed neutral natured Base 90 pokes. Ice Shard and Fang may seem redundant, but work well. Because I have so much Speed, I often go first, which is where Ice Fang come into play, while Ice Shard finishes off Dragons and weakened pokes. Mamo only comes out lategame to finish off teams, most of the rest of the match is spent eliminating those that wall him(Go die Bronzong). His STAB's provide great coverage, and SE hits Gyarados that try to spoil his fun. This guy is incredible, he has single handedly saved me from defeats, he can take out entire teams once walls are at ~50%HP. btw, Mamo>All

The game is mostly spent getting walls into KO range for a Mamo Sweep, and killing off any Bronzong, who can jump into a pit of fire for all I care..
I never reveal Mamo early game so that those who include Zong for the purpose of beating Mamp are a lot more..willing to lose Zong thinking that I don't carry Mamo. Even though this team is geared toward a Mamo sweep, to say that Heatran, Zapdos, Gyarados, and Heracross don't all sweep the occasional team would be a lie.


I realise I don't have the speed EV's for Zapdos and Heatran, but you guys can deal with it, I did tell you what speed they hit.
Threat List will be coming tommorow, simply because I really don't have the time to do it today.

Threat List(this is obviously being worked on right now, so I will include what I feel will be on the list when it is done)
Tyranitar-I like seeing Ttar yet I don't. I like seeing him because when I send out Mamo at end game, if Ttar is still around, he has no chance, bar the rare ScarfTar. Early game however, I'm usually forced to attack and see what it does so that I can figure out its set. Once I know what type of Ttar it is, countering is far easier. Bronzong can handle non CB variants, and if based on how he killed my first poke I feel that he is CB, Heracross is sent in to scare him off.
Gyarados-Bronzong has HP Elec and is usually my go to guy, but Zapdos can also kill a once DD'ed Dos. If Stealth rocks are up, repeated beatings from switching in on Hera wear him down quickly.
Infernape-Usually this guy comes in on Zong, so I can simply switch to Heatran and absorb the Flamethrower/Blast and finish off with Earth Power. Zapdos can also leave a large dent should he get the chance. Gyarados is a final option to come in, but I prefer to not send in Gyara first as losing him to HP Elec or T-Punch is not desireable.
Azelf-If a lead Zapdos takes a large chunk out of him, if he comes in a Zong expecting me to switch I do enjoy staying in and attack with Gyro Ball. Basically anything I can do to wear him down for Mamo's Ice Shard is good. If he holds L-Orb, the job is only that much easier.
Electivire-if he gets a boost he can be annoying, I usually have to hope he doesn't run Flamethrower and force him out with Zong. Without a boost he is much easier handled, Heatran and Heracross should outspeed and KO/dent enough for Mamo to kill off.
Heracross-Usually I switch to Gyara and force them out, if Heatran/Zapdos gets a chance, they can both KO, assuming they aren't already locked into a move. Zapdos can also switch in on anything other than SE.
Salamence-Leads are often picked off by Zapdos, Zong can usually wall everything but Flamethrower, Heatran can come in on Flamethrower and kill with HP Ice, Mamo kills with Ice Shard, bar Intimidate.
Togekiss-Zapdos and Heatran can revenge kill quite easily, Mamo outspeeds and usually kills with Ice Fang, Bronzong usually has to face him early and game and either put it to sleep or just force it out. So long as I put a little damage on it, then I consider it countered because I have Mamo waiting for his chance to sweep.
Gengar-Leads that are slower than Zapdos eat a thunderbolt, if faster I know it carries Scarf and use that to my advantage to force it out later in the game with revenge kills. Ice shard is a 2HKO, so I just need to do enough damage to it in order for me to feel safe.
Garchomp-Zapdos should outspeed and KO most, Bronzong can wall quite well, Heatran beats non-Scarf versions, Gyarados can even come in and take a hit, Mamo kills with Ice Shard. This guy gives me no problems bar Sand Veil Hax.
Lucario-I usually stay in and take a hit to find out what type he is. Zapdos, Heracross, and Heatran all outspeed and KO/dent him. If he runs a neutral speed nature, Mamo also outspeeds.
Starmie-Starmie can be annoying, mostly because Mamo can't handle him so I have to kill him off/leave it with like 10%HP. Zapdos can obviously kill, Heracross can revenge kill, otherwise any type of damage I can do is welcome, I don't mind losing a poke to kill off Starmie.
Weavile-Zapdos puts a dent in leads, Zong can switch in and Gyro Ball, Heatran outspeeds and KO's. He can't do much to Gyarados either.
Porygon-Z-This one can be annoying, any damage is welcome on him. Non scarf variants are outsped by Heatran, Zapdos, and Heracross. Scarf variants just need to be worn down enough for Mamo to kill off late game.
Machamp-Very annoying, I usually have to stay in and try to figure out what set he runs. Zapdos, Heatran, and Heracross outspeed and dent him, once he's in KO range for Mamo he is no longer considered a threat, so long as I don't let him rest.
Zapdos-My own Zapdos and Heatran outspeed and leave large dents, Zong can also put him to sleep and set up rocks that will limit his ability to switch in. When he's in KO range for Ice Shard he gives me no worries.
Suicune-Hit him hard, CC from Hera, T-Bolt, put it to sleep, Taunt it, Explode on it I don't care, anything to kill him off/leave in KO range for Mamo is good enough for me.
Breloom-He usually comes in on Zong and tries to sub, but I stay in and break it. He then has to put Zong to sleep, while he subs I send in Zapdos he can take a hit and break a sub, then force him out. Breloom doesn't give many problems as Mamo outspeeds and kills with Ice Fang.
Metagross-Bronzong walls most of them, Heatran outspeeds and KO's, Heracross leaves a large dent, Mamo outspeeds and KO's. AgiliRoss can be annoying, I usually have to put him to sleep and force him out.
Heatran-My own Tran should outspeed and KO, Gyarados can almost always safely switch in, if he carries no Scarf he's an easy kill for Mamo.
Gallade-Usually I stay in a dent him while trying to figure out his set. Mamo outspeeds and really puts the hurt on him with EQ, so I really just need to give him a strong hit them wait for Mamo to finish him off later.
Yanmega-He can't really do much to Gyarados, Zapdos, or Heatran, bar Hidden Power. Mamo's Ice Shard really hurts this guy.
Kingdra-In the rain? Stall till its not raining lol. Zapdos outspeeds it even in rain though, which is how I usually deal with him. It really helps to stall him out if he carries L-Orb.
Mamoswine-Gogo Bronzong. Heatran and Heracross also outspeeds and KO, my own Mamo can also be used so long as they don't run Jolly and Max Speed.

That's the threat list, I know "leave it in KO range for Mamo" isn't the most convincing way to prove that I can counter a poke, but in all honesty that's how I deal with most of these pokes, and it works like a charm.
 
Alright it's been around 22hrs so Bumpity-Bump.
Btw, 200 views and no posts, are you joking?
I've put in over an hour on this whole post, and I didn't do it for fun.
If you need somewhere to start, help me figure out what moves for Gyara, I'm choosing between SE, EQ, and Waterfall.
Hopefully after someone posts others will join, I'm a little disappointed as of now..
 
I can't think of much to add, thats a very solid team.

Although... you have 3 rock weak pokes. Thats all I can think of...

Good job!
 
not many people use scarf-cross timid is overkill on heatran, he wants rash for more explosion power.
 
All I can say is... Torment weak? XD A lot of your Pokemon have Choice Items on them, which could be problematic. But it's solid overall, nice work!
 
Porky: It's not just for Scarfcross, quite a few Scarf pokes aim for around 405-ish speed. Quite a few DDMence run 270 speed to hit that number after one dance too. I'll consider a -Def +Speed nature though.
Selphimist: lol, the choice problem is never an issue so long as I don't let them set up like 3layers of spikes and Stealth rocks, because they are really just there to eliminate threats to Mamo. It is a problem however when I do something stupid and lose Mamo though lol
 
I like to test the teams i rate. and i just used this..

Tyranitar
Gliscor
Heatran
Vaporeon
Celebi
Garchomp

was his team. You couldnt get anymore standard than that... all I did was really weaken their team with everyone but Mamoswine, and like you said... it cleans up.

KO'd Heatran, Celebi, Tyranitar, and Gliscor.

It was insane.. down 4-1, and win.

So, nice build.
 
I see a stealth rock weakness. Since Mamoswine, Gyarados, and Zapdos are relatively bulky, they would do well with a stealth rock-resistant rapid spinner.
Mamoswine especially, since it sweeps with life orb.

Heatran misses the boost it gets from Rash. With 359 sp. atk, it barely misses the OHKO on Garchomp with HP Ice- it's not guranteed. Same with Zapdos, except the chances are slightly worse- about 75 percent of the time. Rash also helps with Explosion.

Gyarados is deserving of EQ on this team, since only Mamoswine carries it already and you are trying to hide him until lategame. Zapdos has 200 ev's in speed to reach 472; I honestly don't know why you chose that number. I would either add 20 ev's to speed (outspeeds all modest scarfgar) or reduce it down to 172 speed ev's to outspeed scarfchomp and +nature base 90 scarfers, (Roserade?).

Okay, I'm done being overly critical. Great job on this team.
 
i would like to see wither zapdos or heatran as a status absorber. rest talk works with both of them. pokerade, that team you faced was really mamoswine weak, so i'm not sure if you can base it just from one match.
 
Suggesting Hasty / Naive for Heatran's nature - also pouring those extra HP EVs into Attack. The loss in bulk really is irrelevant with Heatran's resistances, but the extra bang from Explosion for me has made the difference in OHKOing Blissey to hitting it hard, only for her to Softboiled the damage away before I can even swap something in.
 
1.) First, determine general stereotype for team and see if there is a case of Pokemon A outclassing Pokemon B (or move A outclassing move B) on said team:

Type: Balanced Standard OU

Outclassed/Initially Alterable Pokemon: You have no outclassed Pokemon, great job ^_^. One minor alteration could be considered. I honestly do not believe you require Choice Scarf on Zapdos. It seems to me that dropping Drill Peck and U-turn for Roost / Thunder Wave would assist your team a lot more. But making Zapdos Bulkier and giving it Roost, you leave open the option of possibly making Gyarados less Bulky and more offensive without Taunt, though you mentioned you required Taunt. Also, while Bulkydos is a great physical hit absorber, it cannot repeatedly do this without Wish support, and Roost on Zapdos would allow it to absorb some of these hits.

2.) Determine if team can handle the most common threats of the CURRENT metagame, as the general threat list really should be covered in a good RMT. Also, possibly emphasize a few threatening metagame combinations:

Sub/SDChomp: You deal with it well. Gyarados and scarf Heatran can both take it down. Only a slight concern.
SDLuke: Zapdos and Gyara deal with it; ScarfTran can eliminate it. No Problem.
Non-Bulky DDGyara: An issue, especially if the opponent has Stealth Rock down. However, if you keep Scarf on Zapdos, it isn't too much of a problem, and Bronzong does have HP Electric. So a concern, but not a big one.
Deoxys-S: You have Bronzong with Gyro Ball, so no issue for you.
Wobbuffet: A problem for every team. I see U-turn can catch it by surprise, but smart playing with this team should be enough. Not too much of a concern.
Mamoswine: Ah. Yes, Mamoswine could easily give you issues should Stealth Rock be down and Bronzong be out. That is a big if however, so simply be careful with Bronzong on teams where you see / suspect Magnezone, as Magnezone + Mamoswine could seriously bother you. Slight Issue.
Mixape + Gengar: ScarfTran ensures neither of these are an issue, and Bulky Zapdos can in general be a solid switch in to both. Scarf Zapdos is a nice check, however. Hmmmm.
General ability to deal with switched in BandCross or SpecsMence: For BandCross you have Gyarados but would requires Zapdos to be be Bulky to have a second option. A well play Specsmence will definitely give your team issues, especially as a revenge killer. Heatran can switch in to those Dramo Meteors only for a little while. An issue here.
Response to <arbitrary Pokemon> being put to sleep: You really have no response to a sleep move besides just accepting one of your Pokemon be put to sleep. Now this isn't a huge issue, but it could pose problems should one of your scarfers or Bronzong be put to sleep, as they seem to be your checks against most offensive threats. If you do decide to make Zapdos Bulky, maybe the restalk set as opposed to Roost would solve this issue?
Can it deal with Baton Pass: Gyarados has Taunt, but I could see issues like Zapdos substituting and passing to Garchomp, or Celebi Calm Minding and passing to Togekiss. But, as usual with BP, if you play intelligently, you won't have a problem.
Do specific, non gimmick teams, like rain or trick room, pose unusual difficulties: Rain does not, however I could see Trick Room giving you huge problems. Rhyperior or Machamp in Trick Room literally take down your entire team, especially if Heracross has been dealt residual damage.

3.) Random typing check: I like your type based synergy a lot. You only have 1 3* weakness, Fire, and just 3 2* weaknesses, Water, Fighting and Rock.

When considering changes to your team, I would recommend looking at your type disadvantage to Fire, Water and Rock. You have more weaknesses to reach of these than resistances / immunities.


4.) Suggest substitutions, but only if new weaknesses do not then override old weakness cover up. Don’t suggest what Pokemon can help the team if you don’t suggest what it should replace; there aren’t 7 slots:

Ok, so your real issues are SpecsMence + BandCross, lack of a sleep absorber, Mamoswine, and possible Trick Room teams. Magnezone can also seriously hurt you, especially in combination with any of these, as if it comes in on Bronzong, you are down your counter to a lot, and if it moves in on HP Ice on Heatran, you are down a check against a lot.

Reconsidered Substitutions: That said, I would recommend leaving Zapdos Scarfed, unlike what I offered before, and removing Drill Peck for Sleep Talk.

I really see your own BandCross as the weakpoint to your team. I recognize that it hits really hard, but I just don't feel it meshes well. You definitely require a physical attacker however, so I will recommend you change BandCross to SDCross. Why? Because now you can make it Bulky enough to switch in on threats in Trick Room, not worry about powerful hits from Mamoswine and be a check against other Hercacrosses.

From the typing point of view, we have the Fire, Water and Rock problem. If you could find something that resists all of those and is a physical attacker, I would recommend replacing Heracross with it...The only thing I can think of is Poliwrath. While Poliwrath is a viable Pokemon, it is definitely less powerful overall than Heracross, so it might actually be a downgrade. Poliwrath does fit well with your team synergy, as Zapdos and it cover each other's weaknesses well. If you decide to try out Poliwrath, I would recommend putting Agility and Baton Pass on Zapdos.

5.) General Opinions:

A great team. Most of my comments are basically nitpicks. Your team has wonderful synergy, and most of the issues that I outlined can be handled well with good playing.
 
Spellcaster: Indeed I was considering Hasty on Heatran, and pouring those HP EV's into attack would definately allow him to go out with a bang, I'll be seriously considering this, thanks for mentioning it.


Aldaron: wow, very nice post. You bring up some very good issues for me to think over. I've never been totally satisfied with Scarf Zapdos, and have many times considered making him more bulky with some support moves, but at the same time having that Scarf really keeps some threats in check. I think I may simply make him bulky and see how it works for myself, rather than decide which is better with no real experience. Should I stick with Scarf, Sleep Talk over Drill Peck seems like a good option, Drill Peck sees little use, and Sleep Talk would definately give me a well needed sleep absorber. You also pointed out that Magnezone taking out Zong can give me some problems, which is very true, basically any match where I lose Zong early is a troublesome match, to say the least. BandCross has never really troubled me, although you are also very right that SpecsMence can give me some problems, usually I only have prediction as my defence against him should he be revenge killing. This is where the whole Scarf Zapdos issue comes up again because even though SpecsMence is a threat, Zapdos is able to take out any leading Mence that stay in. You're also spot on with your Heracross comments. His spot has been the only spot I've had to change, it was the only slot that never quite meshed with the rest of the team. Your suggestion of SDCross is very helpful, I'll definately be looking into this set, giving Cross some bulkiness sounds like a very good idea.
 
i really don't think mamo's a problem for this team aldaron. it would need a set like:

earthquake
ice shard
stone edge
peck

for it to really do damage. peck is very rare on mamo and i've said enough about stone edge being limited to gyara, though a lot of people still use it. bronzong deals with it well anyways.
 
The only thing I can see besides what Aldaron pointed out is a possible weakness to CB Gyarados. The only thing able to switch into a CB Waterfull would be Zapdos and your own Gyarados, both of which take a huge beating from Stone Edge.

Really though, with some good play that won't ever be a problem for you, considering Stealth Rock wears Gyarados down very quickly. Nice team overall.
 
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