Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

[Sacrificial Lambtias]

Weak Armor Mega Garchomp: Sold! This is way to good to pass up. It is simply the best use of Weak Armor out of anything and if something hits you with the right thing, they are going to pay in blood.
Gale Wings Swanna: This is cool, and I'd probably like this a lot more if Weak Armor Mega Garchomp wasn't so good.
Thick Fat Gogoat: Same story as Swanna, except this comes second place for me next to Swanna.
Steel King's Shield Bastiodon: Aegislash is so good because he can switch between being Rampardos and being Bastiodon. Bastiodon obviously doesn't have that luxury, and he really suffers for it because aside from punishing otherwise powerful physical fighting type attacks, he's not doing anything that any other toxic staller can do.

 

[Martin]

F*ck yes Gale Wings Defog, Hurricane and Roost
Seriously though, those make it a legitimate Pokémon now.

 

[GlassVeins]

Core Idea:

Swampert (mega)+Politoad+Swanna:

The ultimate rain abusing core here. Poli is mandatory rain, while mega swampert and Swanna cover eachothers weaknesses. mega swampert absorbs all the electric attacks aimed at Swanna, and swanna maims grass types with that birdspam. sets are as below. nothing fancy for the sets. Also, this core can handle bisharp reasonably well.

Hide

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Superpower/Low Kick
- Power-Up Punch

Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Defog/ Ice Beam
- Roost

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

plus, water, flying, and ground have almost perfect neutral coverage, and great synergy

 

[Patolegend!]

Core Idea:

Swampert (mega)+Politoad+Swanna:

The ultimate rain abusing core here. Poli is mandatory rain, while mega swampert and Swanna cover eachothers weaknesses. mega swampert absorbs all the electric attacks aimed at Swanna, and swanna maims grass types with that birdspam. sets are as below. nothing fancy for the sets. Also, this core can handle bisharp reasonably well.

Hide

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch

Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Defog
- Roost

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Toxic
- Encore
- Rest

plus, water, flying, and ground have almost perfect neutral coverage, and great synergy

Cool core, but I reckon you can run Modest over Timid Swanna, as it really needs the power. It still hits 295, speed tying with heracross, and outspeeding Gyara.

Ice Punch could be switched for Low Kick/Superpower to better dick on Ferro/Rotom-W too.

 

[GnralLao]

Swanna + Gale Wings: INTERESTING! Cool mon imo, sweet memories collecting wings on the bridge *.* Brave Bird | Waterfall | Roost | Natural Gift @ Watmel Berry/ Cheri Berry seems a nice set to me. Hippo or HP Fire Lati are cool defoggers to pair with. Not being quad-weak to rocks means it doesn't necessitate rock removal tho(you dont necessarily care about rocks when you choose thundy), which is something it has over Talon, but Fire STAB is nice as well, as well as WoW and Taunt are also niche so it certainly doesnt outclass Talon.

Sadly, Swanna doesn't learn Waterfall. Scald is its best Water-type move option.


Also, it seems that Bastiodon needs a little bit more love. Do you think a set with Block and/or Screech could work in some sort of way (like, say, paired with a sweeper or Pursuit trapper)? Anyway, I was thinking of a set like the one below, but I'm not sure if it could or would work.

Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Screech
- King's Shield
- Taunt / Magic Coat / Metal Burst


Oh and ksr15, your Swanna set still has Hydration as an ability instead of Gale Wings. Pretty neat core btw!

 

[GlassVeins]

Oh and ksr15, your Swanna set still has Hydration as an ability instead of Gale Wings. Pretty neat core btw!

Fixed. Thanks! surpriesed no one else thought of it first, tbh. its not that original
Patolegend!, I implemented the changes you suggested.
SparksBlade, I added ice beam as coverage. I just dislike adding brave bird on this set.

 

[SparksBlade]

no waterfall rip (it does hve dive tho !!!)
ignore my lil comparisons with talon then, special is the way to go(mixed if it does reasonable amount to blobs or you wanna use natural gift)
ksr15's core is nice but idk if i like defog, maybe it doesnt get any other good move or something but idk
AM your core loses to scarf tran with Overheat | Flash Cannon | Earth Power | HP Ice which i had the misfortune of facing today :/

 

[Ramses]

Hi! n_n

I'm the one who made the Gale Wings Swanna Nomination and I'm glad to see that many love my baby.

I'm here to point out a few things about Gale Wings Swanna who I believe is very Anti-Metagame

• It has enough power to 2HKO a MAJORITY of the OU Metagame with Brave Bird or Hurricane Respectively.
• It sits at an average Speed Tier of 98, meaning its Priority will go before many, not counting obvious ones such as TFlames Brave Bird.
• The Beauty of Swanna over Talonflame is that it has Priority Defog and can efficiently hit from BOTH Attacking Spectrums. This means it can easily avoid burns like Talonflame can while sustaining an excellent typing.
• It's two attacking moves of Water and Flying gives it near perfect coverage except for 7 Pokemon. Lanturn, Chincou, Empoleon, Zekrom, Mega Ampharos, and Dialga.
• It can also run a Defensive Spread allowing it to take on more middling power opponents such as Mega Lopunny and some Gengar Variants

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 165-195 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Swanna: 164-192 (46.4 - 54.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also since someone asked.
252+ Atk Life Orb Swanna Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 282-333 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So Special is definitely the way to go.

Calcs of 2HKO / OHKO Power with Hurricane;

252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 235-278 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 406-478 (149.8 - 176.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 179-212 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 161-191 (46.9 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 250-296 (68.6 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock- Tough cookie
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 196-231 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Sableye: 129-152 (42.4 - 50%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Gale Wings Swanna too Stronk

 

[Patolegend!]

Hi! n_n

I'm the one who made the Gale Wings Swanna Nomination and I'm glad to see that many love my baby.

I'm here to point out a few things about Gale Wings Swanna who I believe is very Anti-Metagame

• It has enough power to 2HKO a MAJORITY of the OU Metagame with Brave Bird or Hurricane Respectively.
• It sits at an average Speed Tier of 98, meaning its Priority will go before many, not counting obvious ones such as TFlames Brave Bird.
• The Beauty of Swanna over Talonflame is that it has Priority Defog and can efficiently hit from BOTH Attacking Spectrums. This means it can easily avoid burns like Talonflame can while sustaining an excellent typing.
• It's two attacking moves of Water and Flying gives it near perfect coverage except for 7 Pokemon. Lanturn, Chincou, Empoleon, Zekrom, Mega Ampharos, and Dialga.
• It can also run a Defensive Spread allowing it to take on more middling power opponents such as Mega Lopunny and some Gengar Variants

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Swanna: 165-195 (46.7 - 55.2%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Swanna: 164-192 (46.4 - 54.3%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also since someone asked.
252+ Atk Life Orb Swanna Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 282-333 (43.9 - 51.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So Special is definitely the way to go.

Calcs of 2HKO / OHKO Power with Hurricane;

252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 235-278 (58.1 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 406-478 (149.8 - 176.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 179-212 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 161-191 (46.9 - 55.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 250-296 (68.6 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock- Tough cookie
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 196-231 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Sableye: 129-152 (42.4 - 50%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Gale Wings Swanna too Stronk

Loving those calcs, and top marks for the creativity of the suggestion. I'm thinking that this could do some serious damage when supported by NP/CM pass celebi. Back them up with Tran/Char X and you have a pretty sick FWG core that could really put in work!

 

[GnralLao]

With all the pros of using Swanna that have been recently listed, I feel like it's time to bringing it down a bit by listing some of its cons (even though it's probably getting my vote):

- Weakness to SR
- Low offensive stats (both at base 87)
- Low defensive stats (both at base 63 and HP at base 75)
- Subpar Speed stat (base 98)
- Small movepool
- 4x Electric-type weakness
- Both Flying-type damaging moves either have a nasty side effect or are unreliable (Brave Bird and Hurricane respectively)

That's all I can think about for now (aside from being weak to Grass-type moves when Roosting). However, most of these downsides can be compensated in a way or another: its weakness to SR is somewhat alleviated due to Swanna's access to Roost, its physical defense can be indirectly boosted with Feather Dance (but not when getting hit by Psyshock or Secret Sword) when using a defensive set, its small movepool doesn't mean much when you realize that Swanna has all the tools it needs in recovery, status-inducing moves, strong damaging moves (and the priority that comes with it and some other moves, which compensates for its middling Speed stat), entry hazard removal and other support options be it Feather Dance (has priority), Rain Dance, Tailwind or even Toxic, its immunity to Ground-type moves (and Spikes) and nice Water/Flying-typing makes its crippling Electric-type weakness less of a burden and, finally, Brave Bird's recoil and Hurricane's shaky accuracy can be offset by Roost and by being used in the rain (like in ksr15's core) respectively.

In overall, pretty much all of Swanna's shortcomings are somewhat overshadowed when you consider its numerous qualities as a strong priority attacker (special or mixed) and a general support mon.

 

[SparksBlade]

- Weakness to SR talon is much more affected and still is a threat
- Low offensive stats (both at base 87) better than talon, and it can beat hippo/chomp
- Low defensive stats (both at base 63 and HP at base 75) doesnt have wisp anyway so i wont compare it to spdef talon :[
- Subpar Speed stat (base 98) only needs speed for the scald, which would be for hippo only i guess(sure chomp is a threat but it doesnt like to switch in, either it takes nice damage or it's slow)
- Small movepool unfortunate :[[ but i think it's workable
- 4x Electric-type weakness talon is 4x rock weak, also i dont think just 4x weaknesses are a good measure of how good a mon is
- Both Flying-type damaging moves either have a nasty side effect or are unreliable (Brave Bird and Hurricane respectively) talon/staraptor take the recoil has well, and hurricane hits more often than stone edge is nice on rain teams which it helps by removing venu and such

 

[GnralLao]

I hope you read the paragraph just after that list (which at the end, I was pretty much picking straws) because I was actually diminishing those downsides to show how good Gale Wings Swanna is. Anyway, I agree with most of your points and I don't feel like to further argue my point (for the moment that is) since we seem to be on the same side of the argument.


While I'm here, I feel like roasting another mon. This time, it'll be Gogoat's turn. I've already complained about Gogoat's poor physical bulk before setting up any Bulk Up and I'm going to show you how actually frail it is by listing calcs for all the mons it gets at least 2HKOed by:

S rank calcs

0 Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 229-270 (50.8 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 2HKO after SR) (the special attacking variant loses to Gogoat though)

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 313-370 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Unaware Clefable obviously wins against Gogoat, but CM+MG variants actually lose to it (beware of Thunder Wave)

A+ rank calcs

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 264-312 (58.6 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 396-466 (88 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)

252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 296-348 (65.7 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 199-235 (44.2 - 52.2%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO (guaranteed 2HKO after SR)

220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 250-295 (55.5 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Gogoat: 378-446 (84 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (75% chance to OHKO after SR)

16 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 243-286 (54 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 257-304 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 289-342 (64.2 - 76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Scarf Chomp is pretty rare now, so that calc is practically irrelevant)

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 367-432 (81.5 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (56.3% chance to OHKO after SR)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 330-393 (73.3 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 238-282 (52.8 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 220-259 (48.8 - 57.5%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 2HKO after SR)

Heatran is basically Gogoat food (beware of Lava Plume burns of Toxic)

252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 204-241 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 306-360 (68 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 244-288 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 255-300 (56.6 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 193-228 (42.8 - 50.6%) -- 44.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 251-296 (55.7 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Manaphy is also Gogoat food (beware of Scald burns)

M-Sableye surprinsingly loses to Gogoat (unless it has Toxic for some reasons) since Foul Play deals the same amount of damage no matter how many Bulk Ups Gogoat has set up and a burned Gogoat at +6 has a small chance to 2HKO M-Sableye

44 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 420-494 (93.3 - 109.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR) (Bug Bite is somewhat rare, but M-Scizor boosts faster than Gogoat, so it'll win even if it doesn't carry Bug Bite)

252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +2 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 254-300 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 320-378 (71.1 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Thundurus loses to Gogoat unless it carries both Nasty Plot and HP Flying for some reasons (beware of Thunder Wave)

160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 246-290 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
180 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 354-421 (78.6 - 93.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

A rank calcs

252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 168-198 (37.3 - 44%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Gogoat wins only if it doesn't use Milk Drink or Bulk Up to not get Encored)

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Gogoat in Sun: 258-306 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 229-270 (50.8 - 60%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 2HKO after SR)

184 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 211-250 (46.8 - 55.5%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 2HKO after SR)

MegaMan loses (and quite badly so) to Gogoat

While Rotom-W deals little damage to Gogoat, it can outspeed and burn it with Will-O-Wisp, leaving it crippled

0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 318-374 (70.6 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (if Skarmory doesn't have Brave Bird, it'll still have either Whirlwind or Taunt to restrain Gogoat from using Bulk Up and/or Milk Drink, recovery of its own and it takes almost nothing from Gogoat)

Slowbro loses to Gogoat (beware of Scald burns and Thunder Wave)

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 208-247 (46.2 - 54.8%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (98.8% chance to 2HKO after SR) (and that's without considering the Analytic boost if Gogoat directly switches into Starmie)

252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 246-291 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery (support variants lose to Gogoat though)

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 210-248 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (99.6% chance to 2HKO after SR)
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 188-224 (41.7 - 49.7%) -- 32% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gogoat: 254-302 (56.4 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Gogoat: 252-299 (56 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 286-339 (63.5 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 192-227 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO

A- rank calcs

248 Atk Tough Claws Mega Aerodactyl Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 396-468 (88 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)

252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 177-211 (39.3 - 46.8%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Gogoat wins only if Zam doesn't get two high rolls in a row or if it doesn't use Milk Drink or Bulk Up to not get Encored should it have said move) (Also, Careful Gogoat is never 2HKOed by Zam)

Celebi loses to Gogoat (beware of Thunder Wave)

192+ Atk Gyarados Bounce vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 420-494 (93.3 - 109.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR) (that's the least powerful Gyarados variant with Bounce and without any DD taken into account)

Unless Jirachi flinches Gogoat to infinity and beyond, it'll lose against Gogoat

Klefki can only paralyse Gogoat, then loses against it

Gogoat should NEVER switch into Kyurem-B lol (Teravolt Ice Beam and really powerful Outrage)

Mew burns and Taunts Gogoat and has recovery of its own (it's also cool to know that a burned Gogoat at +6 will never 2HKO Mew)

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gogoat: 728-860 (161.7 - 191.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (what did you expect?)

Politoed loses against Gogoat (beware of Scald burns and Toxic)

So does Raikou

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 87-103 (19.3 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 173-204 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 259-305 (57.5 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 346-407 (76.8 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 0 SpA Mega Slowbro Scald vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 195-229 (43.3 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO (98.8% chance to 2HKO after SR) (the only variant to win against Gogoat (and to get up to +6) would be the double dance one (Iron Defense + Calm Mind))

252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Gogoat: 272-324 (60.4 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Thick Fat Gogoat: 252-296 (56 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (if Volcarona has HP Rock / Ground / something instead of Bug Buzz)

Alright, so that's almost every mon from S to A- and we can see that Gogoat can only switch into special attackers that either don't have super effective coverage against it or don't have Psyshock / Secret Sword (or isn't called Serperior), but then again, some of them have ways to cripple Gogoat. Also, even if Gogoat switches into the right move, the opposing mon can simply click the right move (unless it's choiced) to KO Gogoat (or at least deal great damage to it) due to its low speed. Even though Gogoat is supposed to be used like a setup sweeper (which it is), it'll often find itself forced out due to its poor coverage and initial firepower (most of the time, one Bulk Up isn't enough to get past bulkier mons and withstand strong physical attacks).

Anyway, I respect everyone's thoughts about Gogoat's viability, but personally, I just don't think it'll be very usable in the metagame.

 

[SparksBlade]

hngggg i just blazed through the bullets and the para, my b sorry lol :[
just gonna say that i dont see it being able to run a defensive set cos feather dance is temporary(even compared to a burned mon with wisp support) and still spikes bait. It not having taunt makes it a really bad mon to run a defensive set, even with priority roost. clutch defog is a different support way which could be cool, but then it's stabs+roost+defog prolly which loses to ferro, blobs, clef, some other fat shit i guess(torn latis av raikou you get my point). idk why but im very adamant on it using natural gift :/

 

[Froggyboy]

What exactly are you trying to prove with those calcs? omg a pokemon is 2hko'd by mega metagross no waaaaaay! life orb sludge wave that hits a target super effectively 2hkos oh my!

You are showing some of the more powerful physical attacks in the game, ignoring the fact that Gogoat should be switching into special attackers like Manectric and setting up on them. You don't switch in a Gogoat on a Metagross or a Mega Zard X, you switch it in vs. a Manectric, Raikou, Thundurus, not things that threaten it.

 

[GnralLao]

What exactly are you trying to prove with those calcs? omg a pokemon is 2hko'd by mega metagross no waaaaaay! life orb sludge wave that hits a target super effectively 2hkos oh my!

You are showing some of the more powerful physical attacks in the game, ignoring the fact that Gogoat should be switching into special attackers like Manectric and setting up on them. You don't switch in a Gogoat on a Metagross or a Mega Zard X, you switch it in vs. a Manectric, Raikou, Thundurus, not things that threaten it.

I was just listing calcs for every mon in OU going rank by rank. I'll add the other ranks now and emit a conclusion based on those calcs (btw, there's still some special attackers that Gogoat can't switch into and every single mon should be switching into things that are not threatening to it, no exception).

 

[ShatteredSummers]

What exactly are you trying to prove with those calcs? omg a pokemon is 2hko'd by mega metagross no waaaaaay! life orb sludge wave that hits a target super effectively 2hkos oh my!

You are showing some of the more powerful physical attacks in the game, ignoring the fact that Gogoat should be switching into special attackers like Manectric and setting up on them. You don't switch in a Gogoat on a Metagross or a Mega Zard X, you switch it in vs. a Manectric, Raikou, Thundurus, not things that threaten it.

He proves his point well though.
I was interested to learn that Mega Diancie can 2HKO Gogoat with Diamond Storm. In addition, the Mega Lopunny calc plus the Secret Sword Keldeo calcs were helpful as well.

What GnralLao was trying to show was Gogoat's physical bulk, and I think he did it well, because at least I got a good idea of what Gogoat can and can't tank.

 

[Sacrificial Lambtias]

My problem with Swanna is that it can't switch in on something if it doesn't resist it. One thing that was brought up was that it can work well with Mega Swampert by removing grass types, but it is maimed on the switch in.
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Swanna: 139-165 (47.6 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Swanna Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 258-306 (70.8 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Here, if Swanna Switches in on a defensive Mega Venusaur that is trying to giga drain Mega Swampert, it hurts the venusaur, but ultimately loses
The problem with Swanna is that because of its frailty, there are times where it will only be able to use one move before it goes down, especially if it chooses to run defog/ice beam over roost.
To me, Swanna is not at all bad, but it pales in comparison to Mega Garchomp, who takes advantage of common moves used by prominent pokemon to enable it to sweep a team with the perfect trinity of power, bulk, and speed.

 

[Sun King]

Give me a few minutes or hours and I'll have a formal post on my suggestion, Weak Armor Mega Garchomp. I would like to see some more discussion around it. Maybe we can talk about some more cores. AM posted a great one, but I think that it really lends itself to a lot of different teams and cores, and I see Mega Garchomp becoming a metagame defining threat. We can also talk about optimizing EVs and checking it, as there are very few outright counters.

 

[AM]

I talked a bit about M-Garchomp earlier already and said I would get back on free time. Work week is done and free time is here so here we go.

Swanna + Gale Wings

Swannas only real appeal to me is its support tools in Tailwind, Featherdance and Defog. Having priority on those moves is a pretty significant niche. An idea would be something like this perhaps. Tailwind + 2 wallbreakers basically. Could change whatever.

Sets

Metagross-Mega @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Hammer Arm / Earthquake
- Pursuit / Ice Punch / whatever you want really

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Tailwind
- Feather Dance / Defog / Roost

Having Life Orb necessitate most of its power, Swanna, I find is unappealing as an offensive threat but those three support moves in particular would be the real appeal if used on an offensive team. Could use Brave Bird for flying STAB as a way to murder yourself before they pull off something like a rapid spin or Defog after you've used Tailwind when weakened. Also gets Endeavor so if you want to be super ballsy, Sash Endeavor with Brave Bird is something as well. I like the idea of it, I just think its power factor is overrated and unlike Talonflame lacks a set up move to capitalize on realistic cleaning abilities, something that has been emphasized as a very strong trait.

Gogoat + Thick Fat

Huge improvement over such wasted abilities in its original form. Only thing I'm really concerned about is certain matchups against stuff like Mega Scizor do to its pretty low speed but it's not too bad. Still slaps around most slower cores easily and Thick Fat for clutching hits on stuff like Heatran, barring Lava Plume burns, is pretty awesome.

Sets

Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Earthquake
- Milk Drink
- Bulk Up

Pidgeot-Mega @ Pidgeotite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Uproar / Heat Wave / Refresh
- Roost
- Work Up

Got to acknowledge Gogoats absence of such prior garbage abilities to the much better Thick Fat to help M-Pidgeot to handle stuff like Raikou and M-Manectric a bit easier with this small balanced core. Gogoat set is pretty standard. I mean there's some other things you can use like Sub > Milk Drink which I think is neat if using a bit more speed investment to outpace standard Suicune or Bounce / Superpower based on team needs. Before someone asks about Uproar M-Pidgeot it's for Rotom-W and Thundurus. If that's too specific the usual options are fine as well along with something like CM Clefable.

Bastiodon + King's Shield + Mono Steel Typing

The concept of King's Shield is a cool trait but it's often overlooked by the fact the original user of this move had like a million other traits going for it that could make it work, as Sun King previously pointed out. It has a couple of nice utility options but it's one of those theorymons that is hindered by the majority of its original flaws, its low speed and illusion of monstrous bulk.

Sets

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 152 SpD / 108 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Tail / Dragon Claw / Earthquake
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp

Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Metal Burst
- Taunt / Toxic
- Magic Coat / Substitute
- King's Shield

I'm honestly stumped on this one. I mean I guess this is something to be considered for Bastiodon at least. Taunt attackers metal burst them back. Kind of sucks that the moment it becomes a thing it's so easy to play around. I think Magic Boat / King's Shield is what I would consider if using Bastiodon what so ever. It's sort of hard to justify using this over other steel types unless I needed something super specific, like an anti-lead of sorts. Even then for all the bulk it supposably has it at takes only some minor damage for most meta trends to kind of make it a liability.

Disclaimer: These are cores, not teams. Obviously something will threaten them off the bat and or sweep them.

 

[skies]

Swanna @ Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Defog
- Endeavor
- Brave Bird
- Scald / Feather Dance / Tailwind

After reading AM's post, I was inspired by lead Swanna. The basic idea of this set is to go against an entry hazard setter, Defog as they attack you, and then proceed to Endeavor and get them to 1 HP. Then you Brave Bird, and ta-da! You and your opponent are dead! Also blocks hazards from being Defogged, if you decide to be even riskier and not lead. Interesting concept!

 

[Isa Simple]

Mega Garchomp Balance Core:

+

Sets

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Outrage / Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Tornadus-T @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 160 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off
- U-Turn

Garchomp's set is a mirror of standard SD Garchomp but with a Mega Stone, and Tornadus' set is also standard of the AV set.
Tornadus-T is a great support mon for Mega Chomp. Knock Off helps cripple pokemon for an easier sweep, and also removes LO and CB so that Garchomp can sponge physical hits easier to grab the speed boost, and avoid being revenge killed. Tornadus also lures opposing Knock Offs and physical attackers, opening up a U-Turn to Garchomp to grab the Weak Armor boost. In return Mega Garchomp can take Electric and Rock attacks, while obviously punishing the opponent for using physical moves (particularly Knock Off) against Tornadus-T.
So yeah, basically Tornadus-T wears down pokemon for Mega Garchomp to sweep, and lures attacks that Garchomp can abuse. While Mega Garchomp's presence discourages the use of moves that threaten Torn, making Torn far harder to deal with.
Being a 2 pokemon core, there is always gonna be plenty of things that can break it. Electrics and Ice types in particular give the core heaps of trouble. Both are weak to Ice, while Electric types like Mega Manectric can out speed and potentially OHKO both after SR. Rotom-H may be a great partner as it can easily beat electric types, and resists Ice, while creating a volt-turn core with Tornadus. Rotom-H also makes short work of Steels like Ferro and Skarm for Garchomp. Tbh, I probably could have added Rotom-H to part of the core now that I think about it. But I won't go back and change it.

 

[Blumenwitz]

Swanna @ Focus Sash
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Defog
- Endeavor
- Brave Bird
- Scald / Feather Dance / Tailwind

After reading AM's post, I was inspired by lead Swanna. The basic idea of this set is to go against an entry hazard setter, Defog as they attack you, and then proceed to Endeavor and get them to 1 HP. Then you Brave Bird, and ta-da! You and your opponent are dead! Also blocks hazards from being Defogged, if you decide to be even riskier and not lead. Interesting concept!

That's actually a pretty cool idea! I didn't even know Swanna could learn Endeavor. Honestly, I was a little skeptical about Gale Wings Swanna, but I'm starting to see that it can really pull its weight with the right set.

As for Thick Fat Gogoat... I'm kind of hyped. Not only does it have reliable recovery in the form of Milk Drink, it can supplement that recovery by running Horn Leech, making it a very tenacious threat once it gets off a couple of Bulk Ups.
My only concern is that on the physical side, its coverage options are kind of limited, which means it'll still need quite a bit of team support to be able to set up effectively.

 

[Patolegend!]

That's actually a pretty cool idea! I didn't even know Swanna could learn Endeavor. Honestly, I was a little skeptical about Gale Wings Swanna, but I'm starting to see that it can really pull its weight with the right set.

As for Thick Fat Gogoat... I'm kind of hyped. Not only does it have reliable recovery in the form of Milk Drink, it can supplement that recovery by running Horn Leech, making it a very tenacious threat once it gets off a couple of Bulk Ups.
My only concern is that on the physical side, its coverage options are kind of limited, which means it'll still need quite a bit of team support to be able to set up effectively.

Yeah, that's what makes Goat an underrated threat really, the fact that it's so difficult to kill once it starts boosting. It needs a lot of support, but can put a lot of pressure on the opponent. With Milk Drink, Horn Leech, and Lefties, it gets a lot of health back. At +1, Band Sciz won't KO, nor does Talon, as that HP stat gives it really good bulk off both sides.

It does have real problems with status though - it probably prefers to be paralyzed, but any status is gonna put a damper on its effectiveness, so it's probably gonna want a cleric in the team.

I think it needs too much support to be a team's main win condition, but it can be a viable element of any team really aside from HO - it can shine on stall teams as a win con, or on BO/balance.

 

[Sun King]

Yeah, that's what makes Goat an underrated threat really, the fact that it's so difficult to kill once it starts boosting. It needs a lot of support, but can put a lot of pressure on the opponent. With Milk Drink, Horn Leech, and Lefties, it gets a lot of health back. At +1, Band Sciz won't KO, nor does Talon, as that HP stat gives it really good bulk off both sides.

It does have real problems with status though - it probably prefers to be paralyzed, but any status is gonna put a damper on its effectiveness, so it's probably gonna want a cleric in the team.

I think it needs too much support to be a team's main win condition, but it can be a viable element of any team really aside from HO - it can shine on stall teams as a win con, or on BO/balance.

I actually am quite interested in seeing how it would perform on Stall. It has the bulk, the weakness-canceling ability, the recovery in Milk Drink, and is able to punish switches with Leech Seed. I can see Gogoat actually being another option over Chesnaught and Mega Venu as a bulky Grass mon. I'm going to look into this and post a stall core later.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I actually am quite interested in seeing how it would perform on Stall. It has the bulk, the weakness-canceling ability, the recovery in Milk Drink, and is able to punish switches with Leech Seed. I can see Gogoat actually being another option over Chesnaught and Mega Venu as a bulky Grass mon. I'm going to look into this and post a stall core later.

Ta-da, perfect core.

So this was originally the Venusaur FWG core of early XY but it was easily overpowered by certain ground types, now however gogoat takes up the place of Venusaur freeing your ability to run another mega and generally improving the core. It's good near perfect defensive synergy with fighting being the only thing that can hit all three for neutral damage.

Gogoat @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Bulk Up
- Earthquake
- Milk Drink

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Taunt

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze
- Toxic

Gogoat being able to sweep teams lategame if clefable is gone is always a possibility so I added toxic on quag and heatran, both of which also handle Skarmory and ferrothorn, another thing that troubles gogoat. Talonflame is checked by Heatran as well, which is a plus.