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Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

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So this is the first time i've posted something here (besides votes) and I've gotta say this slate is a little boring. Magma Storm Rotom is definitely an improvement over Overheat, but as many other posters have pointed out it can't really trap and kill it's counters, although the chip damage and being able to stop your opponent from switching out is pretty cool. I really don't know how adding a fairy type to Blissey will affect it or the metagame, but it seems pretty meh to me. Unless your team is really weak to fighting or needs the type coverage fairy adds Chansey overshadows it. For balanced teams I feel Clefable will still be preferred for having (some) offensive presence and two fantastic abilities in Magic Guard and Unaware.

Shift Gear Lucario would almost certainly affect the current metagame more than any of the other three, but what's the fun in adding another sweeper? Especially one that can afford to run adamant nature and still outspeed all but the fastest scarfers. It has tremendous power, and only needs the opponent's team to be slightly weakened in order to clean. I don't think it would be broken, but Lucario definitely doesn't need a buff this big to stand out in OU.

Trace Virizion is almost guaranteed to get my vote at this point, unless someone can bring up some good points about the other noms. Trace gives her such great utility, as others have already pointed out, from switcing into Heatran and getting Flash Fire, to switching into Lando-T and getting Intimidate. She also wipes the floor with sand and rain teams. While Trace (probably) won't make her a top tier threat, it at least gives a viable niche and lets her stand out.
 
Right, it's high time I registered my thoughts on the slate, but before I do so - people criticising the suggestions need to think a bit more about the work that goes in behind the scenes, and then think again.

Anyways...

Blissey + Fairy: I think this could put in work on Stall teams that want to use a blob, while also covering a Dark/Dragon/Fighting weakness. In pure funcionality it doesn't offer much more than Chansey, apart from the unevolved blob's hatred of Knock Off. Fairy's weaknesses are also a lot easier to take advantage of than Normals, and Fighting STAB/coverage is a hell of a lot more popular than Steel/Poison STAB/coverage.

Rotom-H + Magma Storm: Maybe this could be used to secure a trap against Ground Types, paired with Goth.. I'm not sure. Would be tasty for trapping Quagsire, that's for sure! It also has the benefit of OHKO'ing sash/sturdy mons, complimented by a great typing.

Lucario + Shift Gear: Yes please! It would really change the way you face Luc; as a Shift Gear set would have different counters than the SD e-speed set. I'm not sure if priority would still be necessary (probably), and it's frailty would definitely keep it in check.

Trace + Virizion: I think pika pal has a point in that M-Alakazam, while using Trace fairly well, doesn't get the most out of it due to its lack of bulk; while Porygon lacks offensive pressure. Virizion is a fairly great middle ground, with an excellent defensive typing, reasonable offensive typing, and (while it does have mediocre attacking stats) great bp moves and coverage. Burned viriz comes in on Celebi, cures itself, comes back in to wreck face later. In fact, there are few abilities in OU that the deer has no use of. I like this a lot!
 
So here's my few nickels....

Trace + Virizion: I'm simply amazed at how well thought out this submission is. Kudos to Akumeoy who also explained this well so there's not much else to say. There are two other relevant Trace users in OU namely Mega Zam and Porygon2. Now statwise one can see he stands in the middle ground between zam and pory both in terms of bulk and speed. That means he can take advantage of both defensive and offensive abilities. Another huge advantage Trace Virizion over the other two tracers is the ability to go physical. In such a physical oriented metagame, copying something like huge power can turn the game on its head. Easily the best theorymon out of the 4.

Shift Gear + Lucario: This improves Luke's matchup against offense heavily, not because he becomes hard to revenge kill but because his 4mss is alleviated to a large extent. So there's an clear upgrade. In exchange your match-up against balance/stall worsens, missing out a few kos here and there. Lucario has same old problem with finding set-up opportunity, but I guess he can pick what he beats now.

Magma Storm + Rotom-H: For a hit an run attacker, I'm not sure magma storm is exactly an upgrade over overheat. Overheat hits harder and more accurate in one turn, but weakens over repeated use. That said, can Rotom-H actually trap anything, specially with a move that's going to be 100% of its sets? There's a reason mean look is never used. Things that can't beat a rotom-H won't be switching into rotom-H. On paper tricking specs and trapping with Magma Storm seems like a legit strategy, but its just too obvious. Not to mention it doesn't have the tool to utilize the turns gained via trapping. I suppose he could he could facilitate trapping for other trappers; like trapping T-tar and volt switching to Duggy, or trapping Latios then go to T-tar. Then again, this can be achieved via simple predicted volt switch. So yeah, he prevents double switch, but that's about it.

Fairy Type Bilssey: Plz no. As much as I love stall, pink blobs are just disgusting. Objectively speaking tho, fairy type is a simple and obvious upgrade over normal. However this does not solve any of its existing issues, just makes her better at walling. Its still passive af and now even more food for steel types.


ksr15 said:
I think that the idea behind rotom-h +magma storm is to trap one of its checks, then switch into something that can ko said mon. I dont know why you'd replace overheat with this, as rotom's mediocre movepool could easily fit both moves.
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Theme of course, since rotom forms are supposed to have one stab out of their respective secondary type. Like how Rotom-W doesn't get scald.
 
Not much to say that isn't parroting others' thoughts, but I believe discussion is appreciated anyway.

Shift Gear Lucario is, I feel, getting too little love. People are either decrying it as useless or overpowered, but I quite like it. The agility set lacks power, and the SD set lacks speed (Extremespeed only gets you so far), so I feel this is a nice middle ground. It's still frail and there's a lot of stuff it can't get past at +1, but it would definitely get a solid niche.

Trace Virizion I absolutely love. P2 and Megazam are too entrenched in their niches, stat and movepool-wise, to really take advantage of the versatility that Trace gives you. Virizion, on the other hand, has a pretty good typing defensively and offensively, passable offenses that can be patched with a Life Orb and high BP STABs, and great bulk. You could do a lot with it, if you're creative enough. I know I'd be down for revenging Azumarills any day. Probably getting my vote.

Fairy Blissey, no thanks. Removing its crappy typing for an objectively better one is not something I'm down for, and all those Close Combats and Superpowers that used to kill it are now resisted. On the other hand, doesn't help with Taunt and Psyshock and Calm Minders, unless you count stopping stray Outrages or something. Not a fan.

No opinion on Rotom-H, except that Magma Storm + Volt Switch seems counterproductive.
 
I for one think this slate is absolutely awesome. My problem is going to be deciding which to vote for.

Magma storm Rotom H is pretty cool, imo. Im not sure it actually will be particularly good, since it's pretty glaringly obvious. It is definitely cool tho. I don't feel that anything less than max speed will be very effective, since it won't be able to punish it's typical switch ins as well if they can outspeed you. Rotom H is better suited for a more offensive role, imo, than just a substitute for Rotom W. However, its defensive typing isn't as good as Rotom W, but it's not bad actually; fire has the second most resistances of any type-it's weaknesses are just super common. Rotom H is only weak to rock and water, while resisting fire, electric, grass, flying, ice, fairy, and steel, plus that sweet immunity to ground. Max speed would give you the most opportunity to trap stuff and volt switch out to some other trapper, which is probably the best way to use it.

Verizion is super cool. At first it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense, but it's really pretty awesome. It's grass typing lets it scare azumarill and diggersby, and given its great speed and ridiculous attack if it traces Huge Power, it will make the opportunity cost of running either one far higher. If you kill something with digg or azu, expect Verizion to come in and destroy your entire team. But it isn't limited to tracing Huge Power or tough claws or something; it could beat sub toxic gliscor by tracing poison heal, it can switch in on blissey to absorb Twave, it destroys sand rush exca so long as it doesn't try to switch in on a +2 iron head or something, it can switch in on mega Sableye to bounce back WoW, it is pretty scary if it comes in on crawdaunt (which can't really do a lot to you), oddly enough, it beats heatran now, it could beat a weakened Granbull and become disgustingly bulky, and idk what else. Along with all this, it gets several moves with solid BP as well as some cool stuff like synthesis and taunt to let it play a number of roles. This is my favorite thing about it- it is so insanely versatile. This one is WAY cool.

Lucario sounds kinda insane. I really like it, but... Ouch. I feel like dragon dance would actually be better, flavor-wise, and it would be less insane. I'm not sure this would really be very good tho. However, even dragon dance lets adamant luc outspeed lopunny and Mane at +1, so i don't feel shift gears is necessary, tbh. That just makes it so that scarfers with less than 372 Spe can't even revenge kill it. I figure it's too late to change it, but luc gets access to dragon pulse and dual chop anyways, so dragon dance makes perfect sense, imo, and it would be less broken. Adamant LO luc has nearly as much power as jolly Zard X (just by the numbers), so this thing would be absolutely terrifying w/ shift gears. Also, luc doesn't really seem like a steel type, imo, and I assume it just has something to do with time mythology or something, so shift gears is a little confusing. Just my two cents.

Blissey sounds like a solid defensive threat, but I don't think it'd be that much to handle, tbh. It would be bulky, but I dont think it would change it that much, and it's just kinda boring. Idk. I feel like adding fairy type can make a lot of things super sweet, but blissey isn't really one of them, imo. Dark + fairy absol, for example, is ridiculously cool. Fairy blissey is just kinda, meh, tbh.
 
Blumenwitz said:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but Trace Virizion is also perfect for revenge killing Magnezone.

Let's say a Magnezone traps and KOs your Skarmory. Switch in Virizion, trace Magnet Pull, and give that Magnezone a taste of its own medicine!
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This is, of course, assuming that they didn't just Volt Switch out on it (which is likely given that they see your Virizion waiting in back). But yeah, that is pretty nifty if you can pull it off.
 
Akumeoy said:
This is, of course, assuming that they didn't just Volt Switch out on it (which is likely given that they see your Virizion waiting in back). But yeah, that is pretty nifty if you can pull it off.
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It would discourage Magnezone from using Choice items, since aside from Skarmory, none of the Steels it traps are particularly worried about VS (rather HP Fire usually), and if Magnezone is locked into a move that it can't KO Virizion with (likely due to its Special Bulk) or not Volt Switch, it dies. Magnezone is really in need of its Choice Items' power to pull its weight in any match where it can't trap something substantial, while Virizion brings risk to using the items in those kinds of matches anyway.
 
pika pal said:
It would discourage Magnezone from using Choice items, since aside from Skarmory, none of the Steels it traps are particularly worried about VS (rather HP Fire usually), and if Magnezone is locked into a move that it can't KO Virizion with (likely due to its Special Bulk) or not Volt Switch, it dies. Magnezone is really in need of its Choice Items' power to pull its weight in any match where it can't trap something substantial, while Virizion brings risk to using the items in those kinds of matches anyway.
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Well, I agree with you for the most part, but air balloon + magnet rise is very much a viable set and it's really cool too. It doesn't beat virizion, but I'm just saying, it doesn't need a choice item, tbh.
 
MaestroDeSWAG said:
Well, I agree with you for the most part, but air balloon + magnet rise is very much a viable set and it's really cool too. It doesn't beat virizion, but I'm just saying, it doesn't need a choice item, tbh.
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I was not aware of that set, so my oversight.

That said, discouraging Choice sets is limiting to Magnezone's options.
 
Alright, time to get the party started!

Time for voting! Here are the options you can vote for:
rotom-heat.gif
+ Magma Storm (Replaces Overheat)
virizion.gif
+ Trace [ credit to Akumeoy ]
lucario.gif
+ Shift Gear
blissey.gif
+ Fairy-typing (Replaces Normal-type) [Credit to GnralLao , Sacrificial Lambtias ]

Remember to bold your vote! Makes it easier for us to count. Good luck to all submissions!

As for me, I'll be voting for Virizon + Trace.

e: whoops
list of honorable mentions! apologies lol:

-Virizion + Drought
-Infernape + Prankster
-Tornadus + Competitive
-Noivern + Nasty Plot
-Umbreon + Unaware
-Gastrodon + Poison Heal
-Krookodile + Dragon Dance
-Typhlosion + Drought
-Spiritomb + Dark Aura
-Glalie + Dragon Dance
-Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force
-Forretress + Water Absorb
-Umbreon + Magic Bounce
-Weak Armor Garchomp
-Thick Fat Gogoat
-Desolate Land Mega Camerupt
-Ghost/Fighting Mega Banette + Drain Punch
-Jolteon + Spikes
Click to expand...

My Honorable mention: Krookodile + Dragon Dance
 
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Virizion + Trace
Honorable Mention: Krookodile + Dragon Dance
 
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Virizion is.....shiny? Never knew it turned pink/red.

Storming, storming magma toooaster! (set to song from 7 brides for 7 brothers)
Honorable Mention: Umbreon Unaware
 
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