Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

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Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force: Uhhh, this is horribly broken. Sand Force with that Attack and boosted SpD from the Sand with a DD set? Yeah, it's like Sand Rush Mega Garchomp all over again.

Mega Sceptile + Technician: So, it gains Dragonbreath as a usable STAB (stupid 30% paralysis totally not Scald) as well as a stronger Hidden Power. If you want to, you can run the SD set with physical moves. The loss of Thunder Wave immunity hurts though.

Tangrowth + Grass/Rock: Losing resistances to Ground and Water to trade for a neutrality to Fire and Flying? Still meh since Talonflame still beats it.

Forretress + Water Absorb: Not too sure about this. Keldeo still Calm Minds or Subs freely on it. MegaBro can run Fire Blast or wear it down with boosted Psyshocks. Azumarill Drums in front of it and kills with Knock Off. The slow Volt Switch can be useful but Forretress is still set-up bait to the things it's supposed to beat.
 
Actually, I was more talking about Mega T-Tar on a sand team. Even though it's not mandatory for it to be in such a team, I thought it would be beneficial to have another sand setter paired with it so that it has multiple chances to punch holes in the opposing team and I was asking myself (and everyone out here) which sand setter would be the best fit to pair with Mega T-Tar. Also, its nice bulk (especially in the sand) greatly helps it to accomplish such a task, but it's still weak to common priority moves, which kinda sucks. Nevertheless, once those priority users (especially M-Metagross, Azumarill, (Mega) Scizor, Breloom, Conkeldurr, Crawdaunt, etc.) and the faster mons that outspeed Mega T-Tar at +1 and OHKOes it (Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Lando-T with Superpower, M-Lopunny, M-Alakazam, Sand Rush Excadrill (needs SR for guaranteed OHKO), Scarf Terrakion (if that's still a thing) and some more) are gone, it'll go right through the opposing team like a hot knife in butter.

And since I have nothing else to do (sleep is overrated), I'm gonna post some calcs of Mega T-Tar against said priority users to show how well it fares against them in general:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 134-158 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- 20.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross in Sand: 354-418 (117.6 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 168-200 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Azumarill in Sand: 456-537 (118.7 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

84 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 138-164 (40.4 - 48%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mega Scizor in Sand: 258-304 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (not that good unless it carries Fire Punch in which case... well, you know the results)
252 Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 152-182 (44.5 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor in Sand: 283-334 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 276-328 (80.9 - 96.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (watch out!)
+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Breloom: 350-412 (134 - 157.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 216-256 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr in Sand: 264-311 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage (not good either as Conk can 2HKO Mega T-Tar before it gets 2HKO by the latter)

252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 151-182 (44.2 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt in Sand: 289-341 (107.8 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Stone Edge obviously hits a lot harder, but who would want to take such a risk whe Earthquake is enough?)

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 228-270 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor in Sand: 379-447 (110.4 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As you can see, very few of these priority users can handle the beast that is Sand Force DD Mega T-Tar and I didn't even included those who use neutral/resisting priority (Talonflame, Mamoswine, M-Pinsir, etc.) for obvious reasons. As for those who outspeed it at +1, a Rock Polish set can OHKO some of them without much trouble (for Scarf Lando-T, if Mega T-Tar runs enough speed to outspeed it (as for the nature, Adamant does the job), it OHKOes with Ice Punch after SR and for Scarf Terrakion, Mega T-Tar has to be Jolly, which is not recommended for a RP set, and OHKOes with Earthquake). However, Scarf Keldeo, M-Lopunny and Sand Rush Excadrill is still KOing Mega T-Tar independently of its set.
 
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I'd actually go as far as to say pure grass Tangrowth works better in the sand, even if its solely because of the fact that it can check the likes of Keldeo, Azumarill, offensive Ground types and some fighting types. I mean sand teams never really had much of an issue with fire and flying types to begin with. The likes of Hippo, Tyranitar, Exca all have ways to handle them. If one really needs a special wall, there's always sp defensive T-tar.

The more I think about it, the more iffy I get on Sand Force Mega Tar. Its like a one time choice band boost for the most part. I mean if you can get up DDs and what not, you are hitting hard anyway regardless of sand force. It can be stopped the same way one could stop it before, nothing has changed on that front.

Unlike other pivots, forretress has practically zero offensive presence. Which means Foretress is sort of forced to volt switch too often to not give up free turns. Another thing is, the fact that foretress was guaranteed one turn of spin/rocks, it was slightly more reliable than it would be with water absorb.

I feel all of these slates are giving up something decent for something else which is not solving their issues more or less. Grass/Rock Tango getting the short end of the straw here, while Techi Sceptile seems like the best buff available.
 
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I want forretress to be good in OU but this version doesn't seem to be good enough. Maybe U-turn can have him see the light of day. Mega-ttar can very easily have hippowdon on the team to help him out should he be forced out, I think it is pretty scary. I did some common priority calcs to show it's sweep potential.

252 Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 276-328 (80.9 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 228-270 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 168-200 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 216-256 (63.3 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 134-158 (39.2 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Unfortunately TTar needs some of these guys to have some prior damage on them to take them out and has to be full hp or close to tank some of these hits. He also has trouble with scarf lando-t and some of the faster megas. Stone miss also isn't really my style either.

Technician is really cool for Mega Sceptile. HP Fire/ground now get OHKO chances on ferrothorn/heatran after rocks. On the physical side a bullet seed,dual chop, double kick, SD set hits alot of things hard. You 2HKO defensive lando t, ferrothorn, defensive gliscor(maybe OHKO with bullet seed luck) and mega venusaur with OHKO chances on mega slowbro and defensive sylveon. Team help is needed for defensive mega scizor and skarm but he nets 3HKO's on them by himself.

Rock type Tangrowth...ehhhhhhhh
 
In order of my favorites right now.

Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force: I really like how Tar is now able to use his vanilla form to set up the sand and then he Megas to abuse the sand, which is really cool. It's not perfect since Tar's sand will only last 5 turns, but that doesn't stop you from running Hippowdon or Cradily (<3) to give you a nice 8 turns of Sand. And even out of sand Mega Tar can set up a few Dragon Dances or a Rock Polish and then sweep. It helps too that Mega Tar is fat and can take a lot of neutral hits before needing to worry about anything, and the sand even adds a bit more SpDef that Tar can use to its advantage. The lack of recovery is a bit of a hassle, but it's not the end of the world. I think the reason it's mainly my favorite is because it's going to encourage teams to be built around it as opposed to being a specific nichemon.

Mega Sceptile + Technician: I'm liking how this one looks too, but there a few problems with it for me. The loss of immunity to TWave is the biggest issue for me since one of MScep's biggest boons is that it's stupid fast. And I can really see Technician only boosting like 3-4 moves, and they've already been pointed out. Dragonbreath seems like it could be the new Scald with some nice Parahax, and Hidden POwer gets a nice buff too. Of course just because a bunch of moves dd get some nice boosts, that doesn't mean MScep's moveset has to be ONLY those moves. Whatever though, I'm not really as emotionally invested in this one as SandForce Tar

Forretress + Water Absorb: I see what this one was going for, but it's really niche-y. Water does need a bit of a nerf, but the most prominent Watertypes in this meta still should be able to beat it pretty easily. Keldeo still sets up and beats it, and Forre has no offensive presence to begin with. MAybe in a different slate it'll get more support, but I don't see myself voting for it.

Tangrowth + Grass/Rock: For such a defensive mon, getting Rock sucks. It still is beaten by bird and it gets weaknesses to Fighting and Steel, and no longer resists Water. No thanks.
 
If you really wanted to, you could technically beat Tflame with Rock/grass tang
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 145-172 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tangrowth Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 384-456 (129.2 - 153.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against the bulky set:
0 SpA Tangrowth Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 256-304 (71.3 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 67-81 (16.5 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
Don't forget Brave Bird Recoil
 
Oh my. I've been looking forward to this. I'm going to present my thoughts in a bit of a stream of consciousness, so bear with me.

Much like my fellow French-themed Sun King , I'm rather taken by Forretress + Water Absorb. I can't think of anything that would run Water + Fire coverage other than Starmie and Manaphy that want to lose speed ties and Volcanion so it's pretty safe to say that Forry will be causing a switch vs most Water Types. This thing would also be a hardish stop to most rain sweepers: Kingdra (kinda), Omastar, and Kabutops can't do much to Forry: neither can Politoed or Klefki. There's a bit of a problem here, though: Forry has a terrible offensive movepool (IIRC its strongest consistent physical STAB is Bug Bite) and lowish Attack that will have to remain mostly uninvested. This makes its job as a pivot more difficult than offensive pivots like Tornadus-T or BandZor because it's pretty hard to force out even something as frail as Kingdra as a LO Draco Meteor takes off about half of Forry's HP. If you can get in on something like Specs Hydro/Scald from Keldeo or Banded Aqua Jet/Waterfall/Play Rough from Azu, you're in a very good position, but keep in mind that Forry is categorically beaten by things that carry Fire coverage, usually as a result of preparation for Skarmory/Ferro/Scizor. This means that Ferro can't switch in on a lot of things that it would otherwise have a fun time against: Garchomp, Azelf, Serperior(?), Manaphy, Latis all come to mind. The cool thing is that you get either a slow Volt Switch, a layer of hazards, or hazard removal on the switch. Granted, most of the time you'll be VSing out, which is good but is a pale simulacrum of the sweet, uncut pokecraic that is Banded Scizor's U-Turn.

I'm thinking something like this:

Forretress @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Relaxed Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def/ 4 SDef
-Volt Switch
-Spikes/Toxic Spikes
-Rapid Spin/Gyro Ball
-Explosion/Toxic/Pain Split/Rapid Spin

The EVs probably could be changed, but IIRC Forry needs almost full investment to avoid the 2HKO from M-Garde's Hyper Voice, which is frowny face especially given that it's a resisted hit.

A couple of miscellaneous thoughts about the rest of the slate: Tangrowth doesn't make me too happy, although combining it with Hippowdon might yield High Results. I sort of like the idea of Sand Force Mega T-Tar; you can go from Tyranitar to Mega T-Tar with a ghetto Shift Gear in one turn by using Rock Polish, which is neat. Technician M-Scept seems interesting mostly because of the increased utility of Hidden Power, although I guess having a 30% to paralyze with Dragon Breath is OK although it's not absolutely necessary for a mon in Sceptile's speed tier. I'm probably voting for Forretress + Water Absorb, though, due to my (pretty obvious at this stage) preference for defensive buffs.
 
Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force: wow, okay. Not entirely sure why Mega-Ttar needed such a ridiculous buff but we'll go with it. Being able to set up its own sand, boosting both its SpD and its rock STAB(s) to monsterous levels, this thing would be insane on all teams, not only sand. However, the lack of a boost to dark moves is a let down as Ttar would usually run 2 on an offensive set. All in all, it would be scary though.
Mega Sceptile + Technician: I'm not sure that even this buff would make Mega-S viable in a meta clogged with powerful megas. 90 BP dragon breath is nice, but still not as powerful as a draco meteor from many of the SpA dragons in the tier. (and you've wasted your mega slot) Add to that, an extremely exploitable 4x weakness and I'm just not sure what Mega-S with technician really adds to the metagame. Hidden power buff isn't even that good. It fails to OHKO Heatran with HP Ground ffs. I know it usually runs HP fire, but surely you'd have other options in your team to hit Ferro/Scizor so you wouldn't have to rely on Sceptile. Also running HP fire means you lose the speed tie with Mega-Beedrill. In addition, the moves that get the technician boost are bad (apart from dragonbreath). Snore, Swift, Magical Leaf, Round. C'mon.

+1 252 SpA Mega Sceptile Hidden Power Ground vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 312-368 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Tangrowth + Grass/Rock:.This is actually really interesting. It absolutely tanks Talonflame now and can OHKO with a STAB rock slide. With some support for its weaknesses, I think it could be really good with an AV still. Saying that, the weaknesses it now has are so common in OU, it just won't be able to stay in on anything. A little too gimmicky for me. I think regular Tangrowth is better.

Forretress + Water Absorb: I've never used Forretress so I don't really have an opinion. I like the 50/50 it creates with opp's not knowing whether it's sturdy or water absorb and the possibility for slow volt turn on water types is nice.

In keeping in spirit with the thread, I feel that i'd vote for Sceptile purely because it needs the buff the most and it improve the 'mon the most (ttar didn't need the buff, regular Tangrowth is better, meh to Forret anyway)
 
Sacrificial Lambtias said:
If you really wanted to, you could technically beat Tflame with Rock/grass tang
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 145-172 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tangrowth Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 384-456 (129.2 - 153.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Against the bulky set:
0 SpA Tangrowth Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 256-304 (71.3 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 67-81 (16.5 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
Don't forget Brave Bird Recoil
Click to expand...
To be honest, Tangrowth will probably be using rock slide against Talonflame because of the SpD set.
 
littlelucario said:
To be honest, Tangrowth will probably be using rock slide against Talonflame because of the SpD set.
Click to expand...

I was using the higher of the two attacking stats for calcs because I figured that it would be a predominantly special attacker.
0- Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 388-460 (108 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Edit* Added Rock STAB. Thought I had before.
 
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Sacrificial Lambtias said:
I was using the higher of the two attacking stats for calcs because I figured that it would be a predominantly special attacker.
0 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 288-340 (96.9 - 114.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 288-340 (80.2 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rock slide is less optimal since it cannot grab the OHKO on Choice Band Talonflame every time without Stealth Rock
However, it does do slightly more damage to the Specially Defensive set, but both attacks 2HKO, and Specially Defensive Talonflame doesn't do much back to a Defensive Tangrowth.
Click to expand...

you forgot to take into account rock STAB :p the only attack that doesnt ohko is ancientpower on the spd set
 
I feel like technician m-sceptile is definitely the best option here. Fortress is going to take a different buff to get viable, IMO. water absorb gives it a small niche, but not good enough to function decently in OU. mega t-tar is pretty good but isn't as interesting. tangrowth's new typing is only a marginal improvement, as mentioned before. I would like to point out that it does get a better chance against the mega-zards, but the new weaknesses bite.
m-sceptile finally has a chance to go mixed with dual chop and maybe even bullet seed, or get a better dragon stab in dragonbreath. after all, who doesn't like more power and a sexy 30% paralysis rate!
 
ksr15 said:
I feel like technician m-sceptile is definitely the best option here. Fortress is going to take a different buff to get viable, IMO. water absorb gives it a small niche, but not good enough to function decently in OU. mega t-tar is pretty good but isn't as interesting. tangrowth's new typing is only a marginal improvement, as mentioned before. I would like to point out that it does get a better chance against the mega-zards, but the new weaknesses bite.
m-sceptile finally has a chance to go mixed with dual chop and maybe even bullet seed, or get a better dragon stab in dragonbreath. after all, who doesn't like more power and a sexy 30% paralysis rate!
Click to expand...

Actually Grass/Rock Tangrowth doesn't even beat Zard X 1v1. He does beat Zard Y 1v1, but cleanly 2hkod on the switch.

0 Atk Tangrowth Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 150-176 (50.5 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 237-280 (58.6 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Assuming AV set)

Even if tango for some reason goes for max defense

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tangrowth: 195-229 (48.2 - 56.6%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 178-210 (44 - 51.9%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO (This is the only chance Tango has, and it has to be without rocks)

Zard Y cleanly 2hkos max sp def av set with both fire blast and focus blast, but obviously cant take a single rock slide.
 
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God it's taken me ages to comment on this, but I haven't had much time in the past week or so!

Mega Tyranitar + Sand Force:

This would make Mega TTar an absolute monster, while reducing it's versatility to a certain extent. At the minute Mega tar offers more defense than TTar can muster, while offering a similiar amount of roles in a team (apart from scarfer, obviously)(and apart from taking up a mega slot). Sand Force post-evo would make it an absolute monstrosity of a DD sweeper, with Sand-Force not only boosting Stone Miss to ridiculous levels, but also EQ as coverage, now allowing a chance for the Keldeo KO (adamant is almost 100%):

+1 252 Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo in Sand: 275-324 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo in Sand: 301-355 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This would only work once though, unless he was partnered up with Hippo, but then why use tar over garchomp? The extra bulk comes with a price, sharing a fighting and water weakness with excadrill. I reckon it would solely be used as a late game cleaner, hitting hard in pre-evo form during early-and late game, setting up sand, then cleaning at the end. This would still make Mega Ttar a solid addition to the tier though.

Mega Sceptile + Technician: I agree with other posters in that I'm not sure how this would make it stand out anymore in the tier. It has a couple of issues really, one of which is that on losing lightning rod, it is now scared out by thundurus every time. It also allows rotom-w to volt switch out at will, a benefit that Scept offered a team previously was stopping rotom-w doing what it wanted. Scept's viability at the minute is actually based on its high speed and lightning rod, which technician would threaten to remove, while not offering enough to compensate it in the long run.

The other issue it has is Serperior. Why would I pick Tech Mega Sceptile over Serp and waste a mega slot? The popularity of both smogon bird and Mega Altaria keep them both in check, and I'm not sure technician helps with that enough.

Tangrowth + Grass/Rock: I think this is really cool. The Steel and fighting weaknesses it gains can be managed with Regenerator, especially as its best bros are Slowbro/king, who resist both. Giving it a chance to take on Mega Char Y and Talon is an absolute boon for any team, as both are absolute arseholes in the meta at the minute.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth in Sun: 226-267 (55.9 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I'm not sure if it would run ancient power or rock slide - running rock slide's a risk as burned it only does 60-70% to stallbreaker Talon.

Forretress + Water Absorb: I kinda like this - it's pretty left-field, and would be a great momentum-grabber, while also reducing the viability of choiced Keldeo to a certain extent (or forcing it to not do what it loves best - scald). With hazards +/or removal, this can definitely provide a lot of utility to a team. Forre also never really relied on Sturdy to do its thing, aside from suicide lead, which would still use Sturdy and be viable.

Cool slate!
 
Voting time!

Options:

tyranitar-mega.gif
+ SAND FORCE

forretress.gif
+ WATER ABSORB

sceptile-mega.gif
+ TECHNICIAN

tangrowth.gif
+ GRASS / ROCK TYPING

Remember to bold your votes!

Kicking it off I'll vote for Mega Sceptile + Technician.
 
Tangrowth with Grass/Rock typing
Its not going to win, but I just like it. I completely changes the pokemon, not necessarily buffing it, but not taking away from its viability either. As much as love tyranitar, and I can admit I may have had a part in its creation (suggested strong jaw, which went the sheer force, which went to sand force), I'm starting to grow further away from offensive buffs, plus dragon dance sweepers are pretty redundant already we don't need another popular one. I honestly prefer lighting rod to technician on sceptile cause a +1 special attack boost is pretty sweet, and sceptile gets very few special moves to abuse technician with. I have no problem with forretress, and it can now check keldeo and azumarill, but I honestly just prefer tangrowth. I was tempted to vote the forretress cause its buff is probably most beneficial to the metagame but I just liked the idea of turning a pokemon on its head and seeing how it works out.
 
I'm gonna pull a total 180 from what I stated earlier and vote for Forretress + Water Absorb. I do like Mega Sceptile, but I may as well vote for something I'll actually use, and Forretress with a Water immunity seems like it would be really strong for patching up holes during teambuilding. Mega Tar is broke af, so no.
 
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