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Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

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Moxie Weavile: This is definitely one of my favorites. Weavile is already a pretty solid revenge killer, but adding Moxie makes it so much better. Thanks to its high Speed and access to Pursuit, Weavile will likely get a Moxie boost quite often, making it not only a great revenge killer that can stick around after getting the kill, but can also be an excellent late-game cleaner. Sacking something to get a safe switch can put the switch-in at a disadvantage, ans trying to switch out means that Pursuit can be a problem, so some mindgames can ensue. Really, I think that this is the best ability that Weavile could have gotten other than the cliche stuff (Tough Claws and Refrigerate), and I'm really liking it.

Sand Rush Cacturne: Having Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, respectable 115/115 offenses, a fairly wide movepool with good offensive and supportive options, and the new Sand Rush, Sand Rush Cacturne looks to be a powerful new threat. Sadly, the lack of any durability will make it hard to pull off a sweep, as even though it has good offenses and boosting moves, a) it isn't the hardest hitting thing out there, 2) its pitiful defenses will leave very few opportunities to actually set up in the first place, 3) 55 Speed is kind of low, even with Sand Rush, so Choice Scarf and Dragon Dancers can get the jump on it, and 4) Talonflame completely derails this thing from a sweep. But it does have some useful support moves in Switcheroo, Destiny Bond, and Spikes, so it wouldn't be all bad, and having something to take on Water-types is great, as some sand teams struggle against things like Keldeo, Rotom-W, and Azumarill. I can actually see a Choice Band set working here, with Seed Bomb / Sucker Punch / Low Kick / Switcheroo being pretty effective, and if Specs is what you'd prefer, then Energy Ball / Dark Pulse / Focus Blast / Switcheroo is almost as good. This wouldn't be a top-tier threat, but it would definitely be a great help to sand teams. I would honestly say that this would be just as good a Theorymon as Moxie Weavile.

Spikes Pidgeot:
I can see this one working. Mega Pidgeot always needed some support to soften foes before going on a sweep, so why not let it support itself? With Spikes, Mega Pidgeot can set up when the opponent brings in a check/counter, switch out with U-turn, and keep the pressure on the opponent. Even if you can't KO the check/counter after the Spikes damage, the fact that they have to switch in and out means they'll gradually lost health from both the passive and direct damage until Mega Pidgeot can KO them after they switch in again. I'm not a huge fan of this one, but neither I wouldn't be surprised to see this one win.

Electrify Zebstrika:
This seems broken at first sight, but it's more annoying than broken. With Electrify changing every attack to Electric and with Zebstrika's ability Lightningrod, Zebstrika theoretically can't take any damage so long as it's the faster Pokemon on the field. Mega Heracross' Close Combat? Latios' Draco Meteor? Even Toxic? Zebstrika can turn those into golden setup opportunities by absorbing their attacks and raising its Special Attack in the process. 116 Speed also helps here, as not even Starmie can get the jump on Zebstrika. But Zebstrika can't absorb what isn't being thrown its way, so setup sweepers can safely set up while Zebstrika wastes a turn waiting for an attack; this especially applies to Calm Mind sweepers. Substitute can be used, but giving up coverage to force the opponent to attack is questionable. Zebstrika also has the issue of having slim defenses and low initial Special Attack, so it really needs a boost to get anything done. There are also faster threats out there to ruin the strategy completely, like most Choice Scarfers, Mega Lopunny, and Sand Rush/Swift Swim users. Not as OP as I first thought, but still a cool idea to play with.
 
what pokemon on stall can stop zebstrika with something like sub, toxic, electrify, thunderbolt? Clefable dies to toxix and chansey is worn down by toxic and +6 thunderbolts. I think that's a bit too op.
+6 252 SpA Zebstrika Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 271-319 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after toxic damage
It's going to get worn down by either thunderbolt or toxix resulting in Zebstrika beating Chansey.

Weavile might seem good on paper but a lot of things stop weavile, offense has keldeo, azumarill and genrally bulky, offensive water types. it's weak to a lot of very common priority, but it's very good at sweeping late game and revenge killing.

Cacturn or whatever is probably getting my vote, since zebstrika is downright broken. Sand rush mixed grass attacker is great for sand, atleast having someting to deal with all th ebulky waters, but it's explained by someone else better.

pidgeot w/ spikes is meh.
 
Electrify zebra sounds pretty cool and annoying and stuff, but I would like to ask (if anyone knows) Wether Electrify works on ground types? (I mean like Wether ground types are immune to it like standard electric moves) If it does then it looks like a really fun and probably surprisingly effective strategy, but if it doesn't then it makes it a lot easier for scarf lando/chomp and other ground types to come in and ruin your zebra spree. (yes I realise hp ice is a thing)
 
For this reason, defensive buffs are more what i am looking for. Giving to not so viable Pokemon buffs that will allow them to successfully fill a defensive niche in the OU metagame.

Yet most of these mons are offensive lol, not complaining since there are a lot of cool ideas. I guess offensive stuff is funner to theorycraft.
 
Or if something is faster it can. Course that might be a short list but Zeb would be set up sweeper bait (unless you want it to pack twave to help dis ourage that....guess a electrify, twave/toxic, attack set could be enjoyable) so its just a pain to play gainst then.
Yet most of these mons are offensive lol, not complaining since there are a lot of cool ideas. I guess offensive stuff is funner to theorycraft.

We take a break from defensive ideas every now and again after having an overload on it from last few slates. Sometimes offensive buffs happen too much but its just coincidence that happened this time
 
Guys, you're forgetting that Mega Sableye is immune to Electrify because it gets bounced back. Zebstrika is not going to steamroll stall so long as it remains centralized around Sableye.

Also, it could just Calm Mind up while Zebstrika tries to Electrify.
 
Yah its an on field effect like similar to a mon using sandstorm. Cant be bounced back (be really weird if sable could bounce sand backwards....) so while a thought, not true sadly.
 
It should still stand to reason that Ground type's are immune, meaning that Gliscor is still a great answer. Yes, it could run HP Ice, but then it has to forgo Substitute or Overheat. Also, Chansey is a full stop to it because Chansey just heals off damage while Life Orb kills Zebstrika. I remain unconvinced that this is the killer of stall.
 
It should still stand to reason that Ground type's are immune, meaning that Gliscor is still a great answer. Yes, it could run HP Ice, but then it has to forgo Substitute or Overheat. Also, Chansey is a full stop to it because Chansey just heals off damage while Life Orb kills Zebstrika. I remain unconvinced that this is the killer of stall.

Would they? It be like using rain dance on a storm drain/water absorb mon right? (mainly asking cause i aint got the foggiest clue if those abilities due cancel rain dance)
 
Honestly, electrify on a base 116 speed mon terrifies me. I'm again speaking as a mostly balance player, but it seems like prediction hell.

Say it's against my dd mega gyarados. Do I predict the electrify and dd up? But what if it subs. I can't switch out for the same reason. At the same time, I can't attack because while I'll survive an un boosted t bolt, I don't want to risk letting him boost and potentially sweep my team.

I mean, yes, there are plenty of scarves and flat out faster mons out there to use, dugtrio especially seems an all purpose stop to it, but I'm not going to vote for Zeb for the same reason lots of people choose to ban aegis.

Meanwhile, while zeb lines your opponent's team building too much imo, cacturne limits your own too much. There's too many mons that you need switch ins for, plus you need a weather setter, plus it'd be great if you could fit lures for some of the mons it can actually set up on. It just doesn't appeal to me personally.

Weavile is clearly the middle ground between the two. It needs support in that you need to ko it's counters before it can clean, and setting up an easy moxie boost will be key to its success, but you won't need to build a team around it.

I also think spikes MPidgeot is underrated. It's like to see a bit more discussion about it, but it's clear this is a great offensive/support mon. It gets momentum great and has offensive presence too, what's not to like
 
Just tested it out, turns out that ground-types are not affected by Electrify -- at least on Showdown. I'll assume it's the same on cartridge but it'd have to be tested.
It really annoys me that no research was done into the specifics of the move before accepting it tho :/
 
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Just tested it out, turns out that ground-types are not affected by Electrify -- at least on Smogon. I'll assume it's the same on cartridge but it'd have to be tested.
It really annoys me that no research was done into the specifics of the move before accepting it tho :/
I think that ground types blocking electrify is a good thing because it means that there is a way to counter this Pokemon with things that are slower. It means it prevents Zeb from being broken.
 
Then I've no idea what's going on. I tested an Electrify Heliolisk against a Hippowdon and Volt Absorb Jolteon on Showdown, both were immune each time.
Or was this on cartridge?
Was on PS I don't know what happened,

Also scarf landorous-T isn't a solid answer to agility variants as if it gains +2, it will out speed and OHKO with HP ice.

That's why I feel we will have to scout the sets, if you run sub over agility you get beat by scarfed mons while if you run agility over sub priority hurts you way more and sub boosters give you trouble.

I do feel that you have to run thunderbolt and HP ice/grass though. Overheat means bulky grounds have a easier time. HP grass is great to stop mons like unaware quagsire walling you, while HP ice gives landorous mainly a problem.
 
Gotta say that zebstrika would be a fascinating case. he'd be nearly invincible with an air balloon. unless your team packed a solid ground type or something with a lot of power, you'd be in serious trouble.

Weavile would be a heck of a mon for cleaning once its checks were disposed of. It would have incredible synergy with megagross, mega zam, and the lati twins. as mentioned, you couldn't just sacrifice a mon to stop it, cause it would just keep getting stronger. also, lati@s would be fearing for their lives...

spikes might be a great boon for pidgy, but I'm not sure it's on the same level of awesomeness as the first two

As for our cactus friend, weather isn't as prevalent as it was, so I'm somewhat shaky as to whether this is a good idea.
 
I guess I'm not really seeing the draw of Electrify. It sounds cool, but you're trading turns not doing anything. No one is going to sit around attacking Zebstrika while it charges itself up; they'll switch around, boost themselves, bring in a Scarfer, set up hazards, etc. And since Zebstrika needs at least one boost just to deal anything resembling decent damage, this thing is just going to be set-up bait. Even at its best, you'll just have a bunch of guessing games akin to Sucker Punch 50/50s, but with lower stakes.

So yeah, file it under cool idea but kind of gimmicky, IMO. Spikes Pidgeot and Moxievile are definitely the most intriguing options to me.
 
Really good slate IMO. Zebstrika is just wonderfully gimmicky, yet also something that seems really obvious in hindsight - a Pokemon with Motor Drive/Lightingrod with Electrify is way past feasible, and frankly Electrify has few other uses, so this is one of those ones that benefit not just the Pokemon itself but also the move (and ability)! Really great stuff, akin to Contrary Serperior. (esp. in regard to Sp.Atk base power + unique boosting ability and good speed.) The only issue I would have is... it's a tad too difficult to stop. By no means impossible, not at all, though that it requires some slightly specific stuff to stop is annoying. Magic Bounce doesn't even work on it...? And it can't be taunted by slower things, when taunt in my mind seems to be the ideal stop to it. But that's really a one-day problem that Game Freak has missed and will have to work on fixing in the future if the combo ever gets a better user than Zebstrika, and not a problem with the slate itself. So it's not a concern.

Meanwhile Moxie Weavile is just great, and would shake up the meta in all the right ways. Plus it's only borderline good ATM and ice types could use a boost, as does Moxie (which is kind of overlooked). The fact that it would make using Lati@s a viability is hilarious. It doesn't clash flavour-wise, isn't wildly OP and doesn't overshadow any viable aspects Weavile had with its other abilities (which suggestions occasionally do). It performs as Weavile, only better. (Also, I love Weavile :D)

The other two are things I would certainly do if I was a developer in Game Freak (not sure about Spikes flavourwise, but not bothered about it really) but they don't stand up to the other two :(
Not sure if this is done, but do runners-up ever reappear in later slates? A second-chance run made of previous slates' second-place mons run occasionally (maybe every 4 slates idk) would be pretty cool. I personally prefer Weavile, but the idea behind Zebstrika is just too fun not to use. If there were two runs I'd vote Weavile.
 
Really good slate IMO. Zebstrika is just wonderfully gimmicky, yet also something that seems really obvious in hindsight - a Pokemon with Motor Drive/Lightingrod with Electrify is way past feasible, and frankly Electrify has few other uses, so this is one of those ones that benefit not just the Pokemon itself but also the move (and ability)! Really great stuff, akin to Contrary Serperior. (esp. in regard to Sp.Atk base power + unique boosting ability and good speed.) The only issue I would have is... it's a tad too difficult to stop. By no means impossible, not at all, though that it requires some slightly specific stuff to stop is annoying. Magic Bounce doesn't even work on it...? And it can't be taunted by slower things, when taunt in my mind seems to be the ideal stop to it. But that's really a one-day problem that Game Freak has missed and will have to work on fixing in the future if the combo ever gets a better user than Zebstrika, and not a problem with the slate itself. So it's not a concern.

Meanwhile Moxie Weavile is just great, and would shake up the meta in all the right ways. Plus it's only borderline good ATM and ice types could use a boost, as does Moxie (which is kind of overlooked). The fact that it would make using Lati@s a viability is hilarious. It doesn't clash flavour-wise, isn't wildly OP and doesn't overshadow any viable aspects Weavile had with its other abilities (which suggestions occasionally do). It performs as Weavile, only better. (Also, I love Weavile :D)

The other two are things I would certainly do if I was a developer in Game Freak (not sure about Spikes flavourwise, but not bothered about it really) but they don't stand up to the other two :(
Not sure if this is done, but do runners-up ever reappear in later slates? A second-chance run made of previous slates' second-place mons run occasionally (maybe every 4 slates idk) would be pretty cool. I personally prefer Weavile, but the idea behind Zebstrika is just too fun not to use. If there were two runs I'd vote Weavile.


They did, but lmlm debated that it doesnt do good discussion even thought the second slates should be started via votes anyway since discussion has already been done.


Course thats something it be nice to bring back I think since some mons or slates would love a second shot.
 
They did, but lmlm debated that it doesnt do good discussion even thought the second slates should be started via votes anyway since discussion has already been done.


Course thats something it be nice to bring back I think since some mons or slates would love a second shot.
Once upon a time, I was mere keyboard spam. I am ;lmlm no longer. (What I'm saying is call me Sun King from now on because the custom title is gone and newer users will have no clue that's who I am.)
 
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