Technician Mega Sceptile
It took a bit of technical thinking before I decided to vote for this one
Heh
It took a bit of technical thinking before I decided to vote for this one
Heh
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Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]
- Thread starter bb skarm
- Start date
- Status
Forretress + Water Absorb
Forretress + Water Absorb
can we nominate theorymons for the next slate that get more than one boost because they're that mediocre right now in OU? Celticpride Mysteria Recreant
Mega Sceptile and Technician
The only precedent we have for a two-buff submission is Rotom-S with Electric/Steel Typing and Flash Cannon>Air Slash (Flash Cannon replaces Air Slash in the move pool). That's not TRULY a two buff submission because we took something away to give it something, but I guess the flavor justification overruled everyone's thoughts on two buffs.
Technician Mega Sceptile
because as Scald taught us, 30% = 100%
because as Scald taught us, 30% = 100%
But as Lava Plume taught us, this glitch is exclusive to Scald.
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My experiences suggest otherwise.
Technician Mega Sceptile
Forretress needs more than Water Absorb to pull it out of Ferrothorn's shadow, and as appealing as Tangrowth sounds, I have to go with Sceptile.
Forretress needs more than Water Absorb to pull it out of Ferrothorn's shadow, and as appealing as Tangrowth sounds, I have to go with Sceptile.
Results are in, and it was a close one. Our winner is:
+ Water Absorb (credit to Blumenwitz)
Next Slate:
+ Recover (credit goes to AM)
+ Competitive (credit goes to Dratios)
+ Delta Stream
+ Bug / Ground (credit goes to Tarontos)
Forretress - 25
Sceptile - 23
Tyranitar - 13
Tangrowth - 3
Sceptile - 23
Tyranitar - 13
Tangrowth - 3
Next Slate:
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There is no competition for this, Bronzong is one of the best fairy and dragon counters in the tier and the only thing that really holds it back is reliable recovery. Its decent defensive typing + its 67/116/116 defenses make it a pain in the ass to take down quickly as it is. Recover just allows it to handle threats really easily without getting too pressured by what it needs to check.
The other ones sound neat and I'll probably type something later, but Zong with recover is a god
Alright, one of the more interesting slates in a while.
Recover Bronzong not only improves the Bell in what he tries to do, but finally gives him an edge over his main utility competition in Jirachi, who has to rely on Wish for recovery. Bronzong's fine set of resistances with Levitate allow it to hard check or even counter Mega Metagross, Physical Altaria, Landorus I (big for Stall) in the S-ranks, as well as Mega Diancie, Scizor, AV Tornadus -T to name a few more, and its extreme resilience against hazards is a boon to its longevity. Bronzong already had plenty of utility moves and great defenses, and the recovery would make him a fantastic wall.
Competitive Thundurus-T is probably the least consistent, but nonetheless a pretty interesting option. The one issue I take is that Thundurus's speed is good, but losing Volt Absorb, coupled with his lower speed means he has trouble against some prominent stat droppers in the tier such as Mega Manectric, Scarf Lando-T, and is outsped by the Latis, the premier Defoggers. While Agility was always a means to circumvent his speed, my problem is that there's very few situations where Thundurus will be able to abuse the boost for more than maybe one or two attacks. Scarf might be an option, but his main STAB is exploitable to lock into even at +2.
Delta Stream Mandibuzz becomes another very interesting defensive option since most of its concerning weaknesses in OU are the result of its Flying Type, while not missing out resistances or neutralities like Bug or Fighting. Another interesting thing is that Delta Stream helps it to stop Sand hard, able to remove the weather, Toxic Tyranitar, and wall/Foul Play Excadrill, among other things, not to mention ending Rain early and putting more pressure on Politoed. Only a shame it doesn't alleviate its SR weakness.
Bug/Ground Beedrill is the entry I expect to see the most benefits I didn't predict for, but that type change is a gold mine for it. Immunity to Thunder Wave to protect its speed, STAB Adaptability Drill Run to help it break past Steel types, and an immunity to help it switch in/enter a bit easier (even if it gains weaknesses, it was too frail to be expected to take anything but weak fighting moves anyway), and losing the SR weakness for its pivoting role. Also allows Beedrill to present some Revenge Killing threat to non-Priority users before U-Turning out.
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 272-324 (90.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Truthfully, I think Bronzong is the strongest looking nom out of the gate, but I expect Beedrill and Mandibuzz to compete for the 2nd place slot for a runner-up reslate later.
Recover Bronzong not only improves the Bell in what he tries to do, but finally gives him an edge over his main utility competition in Jirachi, who has to rely on Wish for recovery. Bronzong's fine set of resistances with Levitate allow it to hard check or even counter Mega Metagross, Physical Altaria, Landorus I (big for Stall) in the S-ranks, as well as Mega Diancie, Scizor, AV Tornadus -T to name a few more, and its extreme resilience against hazards is a boon to its longevity. Bronzong already had plenty of utility moves and great defenses, and the recovery would make him a fantastic wall.
Competitive Thundurus-T is probably the least consistent, but nonetheless a pretty interesting option. The one issue I take is that Thundurus's speed is good, but losing Volt Absorb, coupled with his lower speed means he has trouble against some prominent stat droppers in the tier such as Mega Manectric, Scarf Lando-T, and is outsped by the Latis, the premier Defoggers. While Agility was always a means to circumvent his speed, my problem is that there's very few situations where Thundurus will be able to abuse the boost for more than maybe one or two attacks. Scarf might be an option, but his main STAB is exploitable to lock into even at +2.
Delta Stream Mandibuzz becomes another very interesting defensive option since most of its concerning weaknesses in OU are the result of its Flying Type, while not missing out resistances or neutralities like Bug or Fighting. Another interesting thing is that Delta Stream helps it to stop Sand hard, able to remove the weather, Toxic Tyranitar, and wall/Foul Play Excadrill, among other things, not to mention ending Rain early and putting more pressure on Politoed. Only a shame it doesn't alleviate its SR weakness.
Bug/Ground Beedrill is the entry I expect to see the most benefits I didn't predict for, but that type change is a gold mine for it. Immunity to Thunder Wave to protect its speed, STAB Adaptability Drill Run to help it break past Steel types, and an immunity to help it switch in/enter a bit easier (even if it gains weaknesses, it was too frail to be expected to take anything but weak fighting moves anyway), and losing the SR weakness for its pivoting role. Also allows Beedrill to present some Revenge Killing threat to non-Priority users before U-Turning out.
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Metagross: 272-324 (90.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Truthfully, I think Bronzong is the strongest looking nom out of the gate, but I expect Beedrill and Mandibuzz to compete for the 2nd place slot for a runner-up reslate later.
Hmmmmmm here as the new slate comes out might as well drop my opinion, probably go more in depth tomorrow.
Recover bronzong- this solves its issue of being worn down, actually see it being a reliable metagross and landorus counter all wrapped in one. It beats non fire blast mega alt to which is always nice. I always noticed when using zong was it always has a free spot. It pretty much can use SR/toxic/generic stab(preferably steal)/filler. This makes the filler recover and makes this a decent wall. I think the best appeal out of this is it takes an already ok mom and make it great. It gives OU that praised landorus counter we've been waiting for and we all know that thing is running rampant, but also checking countering a ton of the S-A- Pokemon is just icing on the cake. I think this could get my vote with some discussion.
Competitive thunderus-t- with a solid base 145 SpA and good coverage with thunderbolt, HP flying/Ice, focus blast, and if you're real sludge wave. Getting that +2 without having to use a move slot and risk the set up opportunity is nice, but this suffers from when competitive tornados was brought up, the common deffogers can all beat it on the switch with the STABs, bar mandibuzz, and with no recovery, you can't consistently switch in, and the opponent can proceed to defog when thunderus is dead. Also being weak to rocks doesn't help if the opponent decides to attack, but the base 101 speed still means it can threaten out some stuff out, and 145 SpA again, is great, there's just a lot of other good stuff and this guy makes a lot of 50/50s, which I suck at, but nonetheless a solid buff.
Delta stream mandibuzz-this ability was why mega rayquaza was broken, broken theory mon for real though delta stream makes a great defensive ability. It neutralizes any flying weaknesses, while stills keeping the defensive aspects like immunity to ground, and resistances to grass, while loosing mandibuzzes weakness to rock, electric and ice, all very common attacking types In OU. Oh and delta stream is only cancelled out by desolate land and primordial sea, which aren't anywhere in OU. Eh cloud nine cancels it out, but there aren't any viable Mons in OU with that ability, so I won't discuss it. One point that could get overlooked is mandibuzz could single handedly destroy weather considering it cancels out weather affects and it can only be taken away by switching out, so swift swimmers loose their boost and the weather affects dissapear. Mandibuzz however remains very passive, but this deffinantly has my vote because this guy would shake up the meta a lot, but I could see people not voting for it for being a little too much.
Bug/ground beedrill- not really seeing the appeal but someone can explain it to me. From seeing it, it gets stab drill run...and? Most of the time beedrill is clicking U-turn anyway, so the second stab will most likely not be used unless it's stairing a steal type down, but most steal types are neutral to ground, namely ferro, scizor, and skarm is immune, don't mention zone cause that dies to any ground move lol. It also becomes weaker to water and ice priority and those types in general, not that you would be staying in on them anyway, but it makes priority from said mons a lot more threatening, considering it can live some at full. It also looses its quad fighting weakness, not a big thing, but it did come in handy when tanking a random Mach punch here and there. Again not trying to hate, I just don't see the appeal with such a stronger slate it has to compete with.
Edit: 1. Pika Pal pretty much said what I did but better so Ninja'd
2. Beedrill I completely overlooked the ground neutralizing the sr weakness, making pivoting much easier, plus that metagross calc is looking pretty sexy. Now mega beedrill is looking like a good contender in this slate.
Recover bronzong- this solves its issue of being worn down, actually see it being a reliable metagross and landorus counter all wrapped in one. It beats non fire blast mega alt to which is always nice. I always noticed when using zong was it always has a free spot. It pretty much can use SR/toxic/generic stab(preferably steal)/filler. This makes the filler recover and makes this a decent wall. I think the best appeal out of this is it takes an already ok mom and make it great. It gives OU that praised landorus counter we've been waiting for and we all know that thing is running rampant, but also checking countering a ton of the S-A- Pokemon is just icing on the cake. I think this could get my vote with some discussion.
Competitive thunderus-t- with a solid base 145 SpA and good coverage with thunderbolt, HP flying/Ice, focus blast, and if you're real sludge wave. Getting that +2 without having to use a move slot and risk the set up opportunity is nice, but this suffers from when competitive tornados was brought up, the common deffogers can all beat it on the switch with the STABs, bar mandibuzz, and with no recovery, you can't consistently switch in, and the opponent can proceed to defog when thunderus is dead. Also being weak to rocks doesn't help if the opponent decides to attack, but the base 101 speed still means it can threaten out some stuff out, and 145 SpA again, is great, there's just a lot of other good stuff and this guy makes a lot of 50/50s, which I suck at, but nonetheless a solid buff.
Delta stream mandibuzz-
Bug/ground beedrill- not really seeing the appeal but someone can explain it to me. From seeing it, it gets stab drill run...and? Most of the time beedrill is clicking U-turn anyway, so the second stab will most likely not be used unless it's stairing a steal type down, but most steal types are neutral to ground, namely ferro, scizor, and skarm is immune, don't mention zone cause that dies to any ground move lol. It also becomes weaker to water and ice priority and those types in general, not that you would be staying in on them anyway, but it makes priority from said mons a lot more threatening, considering it can live some at full. It also looses its quad fighting weakness, not a big thing, but it did come in handy when tanking a random Mach punch here and there. Again not trying to hate, I just don't see the appeal with such a stronger slate it has to compete with.
Edit: 1. Pika Pal pretty much said what I did but better so Ninja'd
2. Beedrill I completely overlooked the ground neutralizing the sr weakness, making pivoting much easier, plus that metagross calc is looking pretty sexy. Now mega beedrill is looking like a good contender in this slate.
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Obligated to defend because mine
Its not just the Stabs
It is immune to T-wave as in thundorus can't paralyze it and niether can klefki
it gets neutrality to rocks so it can click u-turn twice as many times
It is also gets a freed up coverage slot for knock off
Stab drill run is obvious but it is great for 1HKOing mega metagross(and can even tank a bullet punch most of the time)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 210-247 (77.4 - 91.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 300-356 (99.6 - 118.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
immunity to electric lets it actually switch into things sometimes
As for tanking priority-the only thing it could tank for priority was fighting and it can still do that--preaty sure you mean resistance to fighting
(bug/ground)
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 77-91 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
sure now it has a weakness to ice shard and aquajet but it cant tank those hits already
(with bug/poison)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 243-286 (89.6 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 173-204 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Beedrill: 173-204 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Edit: it also gets a resistance to ground for what its worth it can tank a choice scarfed lando-t's earthquake, knock off its item and the u-turn out,granted will not want to tank any more hits
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Can't believe that stupid bagworm won, I should've voted Sceptile. Anyway, let's check the slate. (Someday one of my noms will get through, I just know it.)
Bronzong + Recover: Giving recovery to mons who lack it seems to be a popular one. Anyway, really do like this one. Levitate with a Steel typing (Psychic is mostly a downside, but the Fighting neutrality is nice) is really great, and Bronzong has the defenses and movepool to use them. Seems like a really solid answer to most Fairies and Landorus (!), and is the kind of defensive buff I can get behind. Probable vote.
Thundurus-T + Competitive: Trying to get the Therian out of his counterpart's shadow, eh? Kinda amazed that the power creep's gotten to the point where a mon with 145 SpA and 101 Spe doesn't break B rank. Anyway, Bisharp method to deter Intimidators and Defoggers. Seems kinda situational to be honest, I don't know that status-lowerers are common switchins to Thundy? At any rate, he already gets Nasty Plot, so I don't feel this would be really groundbreaking. Undecided for now.
Mandibuzz + Delta Stream: Eh. I'm not generally a fan of Mandibuzz, and adding Delta Stream would remove all weaknesses but Fairy. We don't need another Mega Sableye. Flavor's also a minor concern. Overall this one's just a bit over the line for me, I think it would make it too good.
Mega Beedrill + Bug/Ground: Hm. Bug/Ground certainly is an interesting typing, and Ground STAB with Adaptability Drill Run would do a lot for it offensively. It'd be a shame to lose a strong offensive Poison (I'm not a fan of Fairies, can you tell?), but between the TWave immunity, getting past Steels much easier and SR neutrality I can see this being a pretty big buff. Also a good contender.
Bronzong + Recover: Giving recovery to mons who lack it seems to be a popular one. Anyway, really do like this one. Levitate with a Steel typing (Psychic is mostly a downside, but the Fighting neutrality is nice) is really great, and Bronzong has the defenses and movepool to use them. Seems like a really solid answer to most Fairies and Landorus (!), and is the kind of defensive buff I can get behind. Probable vote.
Thundurus-T + Competitive: Trying to get the Therian out of his counterpart's shadow, eh? Kinda amazed that the power creep's gotten to the point where a mon with 145 SpA and 101 Spe doesn't break B rank. Anyway, Bisharp method to deter Intimidators and Defoggers. Seems kinda situational to be honest, I don't know that status-lowerers are common switchins to Thundy? At any rate, he already gets Nasty Plot, so I don't feel this would be really groundbreaking. Undecided for now.
Mandibuzz + Delta Stream: Eh. I'm not generally a fan of Mandibuzz, and adding Delta Stream would remove all weaknesses but Fairy. We don't need another Mega Sableye. Flavor's also a minor concern. Overall this one's just a bit over the line for me, I think it would make it too good.
Mega Beedrill + Bug/Ground: Hm. Bug/Ground certainly is an interesting typing, and Ground STAB with Adaptability Drill Run would do a lot for it offensively. It'd be a shame to lose a strong offensive Poison (I'm not a fan of Fairies, can you tell?), but between the TWave immunity, getting past Steels much easier and SR neutrality I can see this being a pretty big buff. Also a good contender.
Recover was really all that Bronzong needed to be good honestly. Not a whole lot to say I guess since it was never actually strapped for moves more so just needed recovery and maybe some more variety to its sets.
Competitive Thundy-T is super weird cause like you can basically threaten any defensive defogger and taking this enormous gamble against trying to catch an offensive defoggers defog, taking the risk in like a scenario with Latios where it could end up using Draco Meteor. I think Thundurus-T defensive typing makes this really hard to pull off but regardless kind of cool.
Mandibuzz is, the most overrated thing on the planet rofl.So now with flying type removed you pretty much just lose to Landorus, M-Metagross and Gengar with their fighting coverage since they'll hit you with Focus Blast now granted you do lose that rock weakness that makes Mandibuzz less appealing as a Defogger. Eh I just can't get over the fact all the stuff it was suppose to switch into it just loses to now. I still stand by this first point.
I like the neutrality to rocks M-Beedrill got. I like the Twave Immunity it got so it doesn't get outplayed by something stuff like Klefki or Twave Thundurus. I would like this more if Weavile didn't become this maaaaaassive threat in the meta right now and just general offensive ice types. Losing that ability to pressure DDance M-Altaria and fat fairies is sort of annoying as well. Idk there's pros and cons to this one so it's not too bad.
Competitive Thundy-T is super weird cause like you can basically threaten any defensive defogger and taking this enormous gamble against trying to catch an offensive defoggers defog, taking the risk in like a scenario with Latios where it could end up using Draco Meteor. I think Thundurus-T defensive typing makes this really hard to pull off but regardless kind of cool.
Mandibuzz is, the most overrated thing on the planet rofl.
I like the neutrality to rocks M-Beedrill got. I like the Twave Immunity it got so it doesn't get outplayed by something stuff like Klefki or Twave Thundurus. I would like this more if Weavile didn't become this maaaaaassive threat in the meta right now and just general offensive ice types. Losing that ability to pressure DDance M-Altaria and fat fairies is sort of annoying as well. Idk there's pros and cons to this one so it's not too bad.
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Hooray! Shiny metal bug FTW!!!
Anyway, here are my thoughts on the present slate:
Bronzong + Recovery: the only thing that kept Bronzong to prosper in OU was the lack of recovery outside of Leftovers. With Recover, anything that doesn't 2HKO it will become helpless face to face with the bronze bell and by looking at its defensive stats (67/116/166), there's not that many mons which can achieve this task (SE and really strong neutral moves will probably do the job though). Immunity to (Toxic) Spikes and resistance to SR are other qualities to Bronzong's role as a wall. Really good mon in overall.
Thundurus-T + Competitive: I see the appeal of getting a free Nasty Plot by switching into a Defog or from an Intimidater switching in, but if it's going to switch in and out to try and get that boost, it'll be worn down pretty quickly if SR is up. The not-so-great is also an issue here as common Defogers/Intimidaters outspeed and OHKO Thundurus-T (or at least gets a big chunk of HP from it):
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 335-395 (112 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 282-333 (94.3 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)
252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 318-376 (106.3 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 184-217 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Another itty bitty tiny issue is that Thundy-T can't get the boost from Sticky Web since it's immune to it, but oh well, nothing's perfect.
Mandibuzz + Delta Stream: coming straight from AAA, she'll be so hard and annoying to take down! Losing all its weaknesses but its Fairy one is pretty damn sexy on a defensive mon. She also completely screws up weather teams on her own as Delta Stream will negate any current and summoned weather. The only thing Mandibuzz loses with Delta Stream is the ability to switch into powder moves such as Spore, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore and the like, but frankly, only a couple of mons get those moves, so it's not really a problem. The only legit OU mon to get Cloud Nine, which would cancel Delta Stream, is Altaria (pre-Mega) but it already has STAB Fairy-type moves, Heal Bell and a bunch of other tools to deal with the bony buzzard. In overall, it's an excellent buff, certainly something that'll make a great impact in the metagame (that is if she's not considered too strong for it).
Mega Beedrill + Bug / Ground typing: very interesting to say the least. With a newfound neutrality to SR, it can spam U-turns with greater ease as it won't get worn down as fast as it normally would. Having a strong Drill Run and an immunity to Thunder Wave (and Electric-type moves) are also pretty useful, but my concern here is that Prankster T-Wave users (Thundy, Klefki and Theorymon Froslass) all have a way to deal with Killer Bee (Thundy can HP Ice on the switch, Klefki has priority Magnet Rise to avoid being KOed by an Adaptability-boosted Drill Run and easily tanks its U-turns and Knock Offs, and Froslass has priority Destiny Bond). Oh and I forgot Stun Spore Whimsicott lol. My other concern is now that Poison Jab lost its STAB and Adaptability boosts, Killer Bee loses on being a general Fairy check, something we all need more of. Honestly, I've got mixed feelings about this one. It's a nice buff, but it also loses some nice qualities it had.
For me, it's between the bell and the buzzard. On one side, there's Bronzong that's finally having the tool it needed to succeed in the metagame and on the other side, there's Mandibuzz becoming an incredible defensive threat to numbers of playstyles. I'll probably vote for Bronzong for its general utility and support options for its teammates, and for its newfound reliable recovery, making it even more durable and painful to take down.
Anyway, here are my thoughts on the present slate:
Bronzong + Recovery: the only thing that kept Bronzong to prosper in OU was the lack of recovery outside of Leftovers. With Recover, anything that doesn't 2HKO it will become helpless face to face with the bronze bell and by looking at its defensive stats (67/116/166), there's not that many mons which can achieve this task (SE and really strong neutral moves will probably do the job though). Immunity to (Toxic) Spikes and resistance to SR are other qualities to Bronzong's role as a wall. Really good mon in overall.
Thundurus-T + Competitive: I see the appeal of getting a free Nasty Plot by switching into a Defog or from an Intimidater switching in, but if it's going to switch in and out to try and get that boost, it'll be worn down pretty quickly if SR is up. The not-so-great is also an issue here as common Defogers/Intimidaters outspeed and OHKO Thundurus-T (or at least gets a big chunk of HP from it):
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 335-395 (112 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
184 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 282-333 (94.3 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after SR)
252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 318-376 (106.3 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 184-217 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Another itty bitty tiny issue is that Thundy-T can't get the boost from Sticky Web since it's immune to it, but oh well, nothing's perfect.
Mandibuzz + Delta Stream: coming straight from AAA, she'll be so hard and annoying to take down! Losing all its weaknesses but its Fairy one is pretty damn sexy on a defensive mon. She also completely screws up weather teams on her own as Delta Stream will negate any current and summoned weather. The only thing Mandibuzz loses with Delta Stream is the ability to switch into powder moves such as Spore, Sleep Powder, Stun Spore and the like, but frankly, only a couple of mons get those moves, so it's not really a problem. The only legit OU mon to get Cloud Nine, which would cancel Delta Stream, is Altaria (pre-Mega) but it already has STAB Fairy-type moves, Heal Bell and a bunch of other tools to deal with the bony buzzard. In overall, it's an excellent buff, certainly something that'll make a great impact in the metagame (that is if she's not considered too strong for it).
Mega Beedrill + Bug / Ground typing: very interesting to say the least. With a newfound neutrality to SR, it can spam U-turns with greater ease as it won't get worn down as fast as it normally would. Having a strong Drill Run and an immunity to Thunder Wave (and Electric-type moves) are also pretty useful, but my concern here is that Prankster T-Wave users (Thundy, Klefki and Theorymon Froslass) all have a way to deal with Killer Bee (Thundy can HP Ice on the switch, Klefki has priority Magnet Rise to avoid being KOed by an Adaptability-boosted Drill Run and easily tanks its U-turns and Knock Offs, and Froslass has priority Destiny Bond). Oh and I forgot Stun Spore Whimsicott lol. My other concern is now that Poison Jab lost its STAB and Adaptability boosts, Killer Bee loses on being a general Fairy check, something we all need more of. Honestly, I've got mixed feelings about this one. It's a nice buff, but it also loses some nice qualities it had.
For me, it's between the bell and the buzzard. On one side, there's Bronzong that's finally having the tool it needed to succeed in the metagame and on the other side, there's Mandibuzz becoming an incredible defensive threat to numbers of playstyles. I'll probably vote for Bronzong for its general utility and support options for its teammates, and for its newfound reliable recovery, making it even more durable and painful to take down.
Recover Bronzong: One of my biggest gripes with Bronzong was its lack of recovery, which significantly limited its defensive presence, but Recover would very easily fix this issue. Recover would be what lets Bronzong set up dual screens more easily and set up Trick Room more often, let it deal with passive damage like burn and Stealth Rock, and most importantly, Recover Bronzong can now stall out a whole lot more threats, such as physical Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross, Mega Diancie, Garchomp, Latios, Tornadus-T, Excadrill, Meg Manectric, Starmie, Mamoswine, and a few more. This gives Bronzong more of a niche than suicide dual screen/Trick Room setter, and gives it a lot more survivability to more efficiently support its team. If not for my ungodly bias kicking in, I'd say that this is my favorite thing on the slate. Not much to say on this one, but I think I've said all I need to.
Competitive Thundurus-T: I've never really been a fan of Thundurus-T when it comes to Theorymon, simply because he's such a hard nut to crack when trying to make him into a good Theorymon, but Competitive just might be a step in the right direction. With Competitive, Thundurus-T can switch into and punish a good deal of Defoggers available in OU, such as Mega Scizor, Mew, Skarmory, Togekiss, and Mandibuzz, allowing him to either trash them with the appropriate move or even heavily damaging the switch-in with Volt Switch. Agility could be used in pace of Volt Switch, as a +2/+2 Thundurus-T sounds scary as hell to face. Alternatively, a Choice Scarf can be used to put the opponent in an awkward position after a Competitive boost, so Intimidate users like Landorus-T and Mega Manectric will be burdens if the opponent becomes predictable when switching them in. However, Thundurus-T doesn't exactly have the prerequisites to reliably pull this off, as his bulk is only mediocre at best, which makes directly switching in a bit of a gamble, his Speed isn't exactly notable enough to outrun any sweepers without Agility or a Choice Scarf. This Speed also does it no favors against Latios and Latias, probably tow of the most common Defoggers in OU, so there's a chance that Thundurus-T won't even be able to do its job without a Choice Scarf, which diminishes his new niche a bit imo. But when it isn't Latios or Latias he's facing, I expect Thundurus-T to to very well against any other Defogger. So while this wouldn't be a massive buff, I do think that it's a decent buff.
Delta Stream Mandibuzz: Hoo boy, did I came up with a doozy this time. Breaking ground as the first Theorymon to get Delta Stream, Mandibuzz is one of the better candidates to receive this ability. Mandibuzz not only shaves off her Electric, Ice, and Rock weaknesses (still weak to Stealth Rock, though D':) and leaves her with just a Fairy weakness, but it also negates weather entirely, making her a natural menace against all weather teams. These traits combined allow Mandibuzz to wall a metric crapton of threats, including but not limited to: Gengar, Thundurus, Mega Manectric, Rotom-W, Starmie, (Mega) Tyranitar, Mega Aerodactyl, Kyurem-B, Mamoswine, Politoed, Raikou, Weavile, Kabutops, and Magnezone. Add this to the fact that Mandibuzz can completely remove opposing weather just by switching in, and weather teams are looking a lot less viable right about now. Still being weak to Fairy-type moves will remain a pain, and losing out on powder immunity might stink during that off chance you find someone using a Breloom, but these are moot points when considering what Mandibuzz gains. Mandibuzz already had a decent defensive presence, but adding Delta Stream lets her become much more splashable during teambuilding because it lets her take on so many more threats now. Call me biased if you will, but I'm so voting for this.
Bug / Ground Mega Beedrill: Not exactly the kind of buff I was expecting, but I ain't complaining. A Bug / Ground retype might seem like an odd change for Mega Beedrill, as it loses STAB on Poison Jab and seemingly only gains STAB on Drill Run. But there are two important buffs that are kicking into play here, which would be losing a Stealth Rock weakness and gaining an Electric immunity. The former means it isn't the end of the world if Mega Beedrill switches in with Stealth Rock on the field, so it can abuse U-turn more reliably, and the later protects it from Electric-type moves, so Prankster Thunder Wave from Thundurus and Klefki will no longer be a pressing issue. And as I stated before, Drill Run does get a nice Adaptability STAB boost, so Drill Run now OHKOes Mega Metagross, Bisharp, Mega Charizard X, Mega Diancie, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and at worst 2HKOes Jirachi and Klefki. My only complaints with this are now Mega Beedrill misses out on the chance to OHKO Clefable, and Azumarill, Weavile, and Mamoswine pose as much greater threats with their priority moves, but I think what Mega Beedrill gains is more important than what it loses. If the slate was different, I just might have voted for this.
Competitive Thundurus-T: I've never really been a fan of Thundurus-T when it comes to Theorymon, simply because he's such a hard nut to crack when trying to make him into a good Theorymon, but Competitive just might be a step in the right direction. With Competitive, Thundurus-T can switch into and punish a good deal of Defoggers available in OU, such as Mega Scizor, Mew, Skarmory, Togekiss, and Mandibuzz, allowing him to either trash them with the appropriate move or even heavily damaging the switch-in with Volt Switch. Agility could be used in pace of Volt Switch, as a +2/+2 Thundurus-T sounds scary as hell to face. Alternatively, a Choice Scarf can be used to put the opponent in an awkward position after a Competitive boost, so Intimidate users like Landorus-T and Mega Manectric will be burdens if the opponent becomes predictable when switching them in. However, Thundurus-T doesn't exactly have the prerequisites to reliably pull this off, as his bulk is only mediocre at best, which makes directly switching in a bit of a gamble, his Speed isn't exactly notable enough to outrun any sweepers without Agility or a Choice Scarf. This Speed also does it no favors against Latios and Latias, probably tow of the most common Defoggers in OU, so there's a chance that Thundurus-T won't even be able to do its job without a Choice Scarf, which diminishes his new niche a bit imo. But when it isn't Latios or Latias he's facing, I expect Thundurus-T to to very well against any other Defogger. So while this wouldn't be a massive buff, I do think that it's a decent buff.
Delta Stream Mandibuzz: Hoo boy, did I came up with a doozy this time. Breaking ground as the first Theorymon to get Delta Stream, Mandibuzz is one of the better candidates to receive this ability. Mandibuzz not only shaves off her Electric, Ice, and Rock weaknesses (still weak to Stealth Rock, though D':) and leaves her with just a Fairy weakness, but it also negates weather entirely, making her a natural menace against all weather teams. These traits combined allow Mandibuzz to wall a metric crapton of threats, including but not limited to: Gengar, Thundurus, Mega Manectric, Rotom-W, Starmie, (Mega) Tyranitar, Mega Aerodactyl, Kyurem-B, Mamoswine, Politoed, Raikou, Weavile, Kabutops, and Magnezone. Add this to the fact that Mandibuzz can completely remove opposing weather just by switching in, and weather teams are looking a lot less viable right about now. Still being weak to Fairy-type moves will remain a pain, and losing out on powder immunity might stink during that off chance you find someone using a Breloom, but these are moot points when considering what Mandibuzz gains. Mandibuzz already had a decent defensive presence, but adding Delta Stream lets her become much more splashable during teambuilding because it lets her take on so many more threats now. Call me biased if you will, but I'm so voting for this.
Bug / Ground Mega Beedrill: Not exactly the kind of buff I was expecting, but I ain't complaining. A Bug / Ground retype might seem like an odd change for Mega Beedrill, as it loses STAB on Poison Jab and seemingly only gains STAB on Drill Run. But there are two important buffs that are kicking into play here, which would be losing a Stealth Rock weakness and gaining an Electric immunity. The former means it isn't the end of the world if Mega Beedrill switches in with Stealth Rock on the field, so it can abuse U-turn more reliably, and the later protects it from Electric-type moves, so Prankster Thunder Wave from Thundurus and Klefki will no longer be a pressing issue. And as I stated before, Drill Run does get a nice Adaptability STAB boost, so Drill Run now OHKOes Mega Metagross, Bisharp, Mega Charizard X, Mega Diancie, and Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and at worst 2HKOes Jirachi and Klefki. My only complaints with this are now Mega Beedrill misses out on the chance to OHKO Clefable, and Azumarill, Weavile, and Mamoswine pose as much greater threats with their priority moves, but I think what Mega Beedrill gains is more important than what it loses. If the slate was different, I just might have voted for this.
Already gave my thoughts on Beedrill so here are the rest
quickly for mega bedrill--mine
buffs
t-wave immune
ground stab
rock neutral
can now run knock off(poison jab hits for the same strength vs fairies as drill run does-- the exact same strength)
nerfs
no SE stab vs fairies
Brongzong+recover:
Its good i guess, but its kind of boring--its basically give the bulky pokemon without recovery recovery. its a bulky steel type with immunity to ground making it a good answer to fairies and dragons and flyers and ground types who carry ground moves to break steels. but it always did that now it harder to play around.
It is probably the best buff but i really just find it to be boring(move additions generally are unless its for a secondary effect)
Mandibuzz+delta Stream
Stretches the bounds of flavor but it is fairly good
Its anti weather so it could find it's way on to any team architype. it also losses alot of weaknesses leaving it with only fairy. but it is more manageable than sabeleye do to status ability. of course though it is still weak to rocks but can't have everything.
I like it over all
(and you guys just opened it up to give things primal weather i don't know how this will end)
thundo-t+competitive.
One anti deffoger with super effective stab coming up
its a good buff not much to say about it but would probably boost its viability some
Probably run a scarf set or an agility set fairly well
nice
Right now i'm torn between Mandibuzz and beedrill.
quickly for mega bedrill--mine
buffs
t-wave immune
ground stab
rock neutral
can now run knock off(poison jab hits for the same strength vs fairies as drill run does-- the exact same strength)
nerfs
no SE stab vs fairies
Brongzong+recover:
Its good i guess, but its kind of boring--its basically give the bulky pokemon without recovery recovery. its a bulky steel type with immunity to ground making it a good answer to fairies and dragons and flyers and ground types who carry ground moves to break steels. but it always did that now it harder to play around.
It is probably the best buff but i really just find it to be boring(move additions generally are unless its for a secondary effect)
Mandibuzz+delta Stream
Stretches the bounds of flavor but it is fairly good
Its anti weather so it could find it's way on to any team architype. it also losses alot of weaknesses leaving it with only fairy. but it is more manageable than sabeleye do to status ability. of course though it is still weak to rocks but can't have everything.
I like it over all
(and you guys just opened it up to give things primal weather i don't know how this will end)
thundo-t+competitive.
One anti deffoger with super effective stab coming up
its a good buff not much to say about it but would probably boost its viability some
Probably run a scarf set or an agility set fairly well
nice
Right now i'm torn between Mandibuzz and beedrill.
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Interesting new slates.
Recover Bronzong: The simplest, most obvious and highly effective buff. Bronzong got all he wished for in one single move. A steel type with with reliable recovery not named Skarmory is hard to come by, and looks like Zong will finally show us how good defensive type steel/psychic with levitate is. Speaking of Skarmory, I wouldn't be surprised Bronzong can effectively replace him and Jirachi now with his mixed bulk in a lot of teams where u don't need Skarm's spikes, defog and phazing or Rachis wishes. Taking absolute minimal damage from hazards coupled with recover means he will be around for a really long time. Diancie-M, Garde-M, Landorus-I, Fire Blast Chomp, Serperior, Dragalage are things that Skarm could not wall because of his lack of special bulk. No more worries, Zong to the rescue. Also with Zong, we get a hard counter for Mega Gross, Mega Pinsir, Mega Aero, Jirachi, DD Mega Altaria and Mamoswine. Also, he can now recover on predicted non-stab knock offs and effectively neutralize that coverage option from that point on. Only fault I can see with this one, its too bland and un-creative(if that's even a word) buff. Move aside people, the Bell is ringing...
Competitive Thundurus-T: Umm... well I do not know what to think about this. The thing has 145 special attack, no shit it would be shitting-your-pants scary with a defiant boost. The thing is Thundurus-I already has defiant, a significantly better speed tier and better at going mixed. Not to mention Thundurus-I often forces switches due to the fear of prankster thunderwave. In my opinion, Thundurs-T already is very underrated pokemon who can wall break with moments notice. Volt absorb was also a nice way for him to heal and find setup opportunities, resisting Volt-turn is always nice. This is definitely a good buff in my opinion, but not enough of a new niche in my eyes.
Delta Stream Mandibuzz: Yet another great defensive buff. Good to see a defensive use of delta stream(or any use in below AG for that matter). Another pokemon with great mixed bulk, who carries whole lot of utility. With delta stream Mandi is weak to..... umm Fairy, yeah Fairy and thats all. Its interesting to note that Mandi is not gaining any new resistance out of his new found ability, Ground/Psychic/Dark/Ghost is where its at. He is also trading the ability to switch into rare spores and sleep powders. Another advantage of delta stream is weather sweepers are not breaking through her easily. Kabutops for example, loses both its speed, it power boost in water attacks and the ability to hit mandy supereffectively; something normally Mandi would be very scared of. Unfortunately, it's still weak to stealth rocks. His presence might warrant a fairy type or a wallbreaker in every team; but its not like we have shortage of those. Still will be very hard to take down.
Bug+Ground Beedrill: First thing's first. No stealth rock weakness, (Insert picture of Baedrill hugging everyone). Second thing. T wave immunity, Yay!! Sounds like just the thing a super fast u-turning pivot would want. Mega Bae now picks up adaptability boost in drill run instead off poison jab, which is much more helpful in getting past steel types. Now Mega Bae can ohko the bulkiest Jirachi and Mega Gross. Bug+Ground, while not the best offensive combo, still much better than bug+poison. Plus its job is to be offensive pivot, not wall-break. Really loving this one so far, and will be voting for it unless someone else changes my mind.
Recover Bronzong: The simplest, most obvious and highly effective buff. Bronzong got all he wished for in one single move. A steel type with with reliable recovery not named Skarmory is hard to come by, and looks like Zong will finally show us how good defensive type steel/psychic with levitate is. Speaking of Skarmory, I wouldn't be surprised Bronzong can effectively replace him and Jirachi now with his mixed bulk in a lot of teams where u don't need Skarm's spikes, defog and phazing or Rachis wishes. Taking absolute minimal damage from hazards coupled with recover means he will be around for a really long time. Diancie-M, Garde-M, Landorus-I, Fire Blast Chomp, Serperior, Dragalage are things that Skarm could not wall because of his lack of special bulk. No more worries, Zong to the rescue. Also with Zong, we get a hard counter for Mega Gross, Mega Pinsir, Mega Aero, Jirachi, DD Mega Altaria and Mamoswine. Also, he can now recover on predicted non-stab knock offs and effectively neutralize that coverage option from that point on. Only fault I can see with this one, its too bland and un-creative(if that's even a word) buff. Move aside people, the Bell is ringing...
Competitive Thundurus-T: Umm... well I do not know what to think about this. The thing has 145 special attack, no shit it would be shitting-your-pants scary with a defiant boost. The thing is Thundurus-I already has defiant, a significantly better speed tier and better at going mixed. Not to mention Thundurus-I often forces switches due to the fear of prankster thunderwave. In my opinion, Thundurs-T already is very underrated pokemon who can wall break with moments notice. Volt absorb was also a nice way for him to heal and find setup opportunities, resisting Volt-turn is always nice. This is definitely a good buff in my opinion, but not enough of a new niche in my eyes.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 374-442 (58.2 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 317-374 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
lol
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 317-374 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
lol
Delta Stream Mandibuzz: Yet another great defensive buff. Good to see a defensive use of delta stream(or any use in below AG for that matter). Another pokemon with great mixed bulk, who carries whole lot of utility. With delta stream Mandi is weak to..... umm Fairy, yeah Fairy and thats all. Its interesting to note that Mandi is not gaining any new resistance out of his new found ability, Ground/Psychic/Dark/Ghost is where its at. He is also trading the ability to switch into rare spores and sleep powders. Another advantage of delta stream is weather sweepers are not breaking through her easily. Kabutops for example, loses both its speed, it power boost in water attacks and the ability to hit mandy supereffectively; something normally Mandi would be very scared of. Unfortunately, it's still weak to stealth rocks. His presence might warrant a fairy type or a wallbreaker in every team; but its not like we have shortage of those. Still will be very hard to take down.
Bug+Ground Beedrill: First thing's first. No stealth rock weakness, (Insert picture of Baedrill hugging everyone). Second thing. T wave immunity, Yay!! Sounds like just the thing a super fast u-turning pivot would want. Mega Bae now picks up adaptability boost in drill run instead off poison jab, which is much more helpful in getting past steel types. Now Mega Bae can ohko the bulkiest Jirachi and Mega Gross. Bug+Ground, while not the best offensive combo, still much better than bug+poison. Plus its job is to be offensive pivot, not wall-break. Really loving this one so far, and will be voting for it unless someone else changes my mind.
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 272-324 (90.3 - 107.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
(oh my god, adaptability boosted 80 bp super effective attack from base 150 atk stat, and mega gross still doesn't die with zero investment!)
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 388-460 (96 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
(oh my god, adaptability boosted 80 bp super effective attack from base 150 atk stat, and mega gross still doesn't die with zero investment!)
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 388-460 (96 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
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