Project OU Weekly Research v3


approved by bludz | last one by Terrakion. | new banner by daddy's kisses

The main goal of this project is to encourage and maintain discussion on lesser used, but still effective, Pokemon in ORAS OU with community participation. In addition to discussion based on the Pokemon (plural) of that week, the thread acts as a nice way to encourage people to build with more creative options in the tier, getting them out of their comfort zone a bit.
How it works:

  • Each week, 3 Pokemon will be chosen as our "test subjects".
  • By the end of the week, those participating simply post their findings for whatever test subject(s) they want in this thread. Things you can post include (but are not limited to):
    • strategies used
    • how you went about building with this Pokemon
    • general strengths / weaknesses you noticed about the Pokemon
    • if the meta is in favor of the Pokemon or not
    • sets you used with the Pokemon
    • and many more.....
  • Finally, as we're starting up the next week, I'll be announcing archived posts for each Pokemon from the previous week!
    • The posts that get archived are simply the posts that the people I normally talk to OU stuff about & I deem the best at "summarizing" that Pokemon.
    • PLEASE NOTE: the archived posts aren't necessarily the best posts due to the very subjective nature of choosing them. The main reason the archive exists is to have an example post to refer to for the various test subjects.
Guidelines:

  • Unlike other variations of this project on the other various tier subforums, you do not have to ladder to participate in these. Of course, battling & building a bit with your selected test subject are both highly suggested, but simply using a (not super old) build you already had and / or just testing with friends or testing in OU room tours is totally fine!
  • Posting replays and imports of the team you used are also both highly encouraged, but not mandatory.
  • Your posts don't need to be super lengthy & detailed, but they shouldn't be super short and simple. I'm not gonna put some arbitrary regulation on how many sentences you should have, but you should have at least a small paragraph.
If you have any comments or suggestions, feel free to PM / VM me. Have fun n_n
 
Last edited:
hey guys. im taking over this thread from terrakion since he's taking a break from mons pretty soon. im making an experimental change to this thread by removing signups because i never really saw it as a particularly worthwhile use of time. we'll see how it goes o.o

Week #1


Dugtrio | Thundurus-T | Suicune

dugtrio is a pretty unique pokemon, as the only ou viable arena trap user. it can remove many top threats such as heatran, mega diancie, tyranitar, etc. and its the closest thing to a universal trapper ou has with shadow tag banned so i thought it would be cool to start out with. thundy-t is an interesting mon that doesnt get a lot of usage nowadays. it has several unique qualities that help it to distinguish itself from its more popular incarnate form but it always seems to end up in its shadow (plus it looks cool) so i wanted to see you guys' findings on it. theres been some discussion on suicune jumping to A- in the viability rankings. it already has a very solid standard set, and a new stallbreaker set has been popularized by Vinc2612 (posted here). how good is this new set and how good is suicune in general right now?

REMEMBER: you simply pick 1 one of these 3 (or 2 / 3 of them if you want :p) and post here about them. also, you can use any set you want!

this week is ending next saturday (8/20); those of you who want to participate have between now and then to play around with these pokemon and post.

again you do not have to sign up for this week, just post once you feel ready

edit: im extending this week to next monday (8/22) as i feel it would be better for people to have the entire weekend to write their posts.​
 
Last edited:
This seems like a pretty cool idea so I'll give it a try, starting with Dugtrio if thats alright. Since there are no other posts, I'll just go off what I think an example should look like if that's okay :)


Weekly OU Research Week 1: Dugtrio

Trapper Extraordinaire



Dugtrio is a pretty cool Pokemon, who has been able to carve it's own little niche in tiers where it's legal to use. It's main use in the OU tier is to act as a trapper for certain Pokemon. With it's ability Arena Trap, opposing Pokemon are not able to switch out, unless they are Flying type or have the ability Levitate, making sure your opponent has to think about which Pokemon they want to send in, in fear that it may be heavily damaged by this cute, little monster. With it's blazing fast base 120 Speed tier, Dugtrio outspeeds much of the unboosted metagame, including Pokemon like Raikou, Latios, Latias, Excadrill (w/o Scarf or Sand), Mega Diancie, Charizard-X, Jirachi, Mega Metagross and so many more! Combine the amazing Speed tier with okay base 80 Attack and STAB Earthquake, you have a great revenge killer/trapper in your hands.

Strategies With Dugtrio
Dugtrio is usually fit into an OU team as the main remover of Steel types, and sometimes Electric types. Dugtrio can be used to pave the way to victory for Pokemon that struggle with Steel types, like Mega Gardevoir, Azumarill, and Talonflame. Once those checks/counters are removed, other Pokemon can swoop in and possibly sweep an opponent's team with ease. Dugtrio excels at this role of trapping fat Steel types and handling them quite well. Dugtrio can also be used as a suicide lead, being able to quickly get up Stealth Rocks and do as most damage as possible before it's frail defenses give way. Dugtrio outspeeds all the Rapid Spin users in OU, and outspeeds most of the common OU Defoggers, allowing it to consistently keep up Stealth Rocks and then do damage as the Spinner/Defoggers use a turn to get rid of the Rocks. Although very rare in OU, a Choice Banded Dugtrio can be used to put in tons of work against an opponent's team, dealing huge amounts of damage with Earthquake and Stone Edge.

How I Built a Team Around Dugtrio
The team that I build around Dugtrio focuses on it's ability to trap and KO Steel type Pokemon, allowing Mega Gardevoir to come in and destroy the opponent's team. To support Mega Gardevoir, and to patch up it's decent Speed stat, I added Prankster Thunder Wave Thundurus to the team. I added Sludge Wave to Thundurus to combat the Clefables of the tier, and because Dugtrio could take care of Steel type Pokemon. To preserve Dugtrio's Focus Sash and work around Thundurus' SR weakness, Starmie was also added to the team. Starmie can also deal with common leads like Landorus and Garchomp with Scald, and can even handle Talonflame, a threat to the team. I added TankChomp (defensive Garchomp) to the team to check the Talonflames and Mega Pinsirs of the tier, with their priority Flying Type attacks. Garchomp also provided SR for the team. Finally, Bisharp was added to the team to Pursuit trap Pokemon like Gengar who like to switch into Mega Gardevoir. Little did I know, most Gengar these days run Destiny Bond (I was Destiny Bonded on like 4 times). Bisharp also provides a Steel type, completing the Fairy-Steel-Dragon core with Gardevoir and Garchomp.
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stone Edge
- Memento

Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Sludge Wave

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast

Bisharp @ Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-419014609 This replay was very low on the ladder, if you can't already tell by the team used. At the end of the 6 turn game, Dugtrio was able to trap and OHKO the Probopass, demonstrating how powerful it can be in the right situation.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-419016394 This was one of the better replays I have, with Dugtrio picking up a total of 4 KOs. Trapping what was a suspected CB Azumarill, Victini, Gardevoir, and Excadrill was pivotal (but so was the Thunderbolt Crit on Suicune...).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-419023753 This replay was more about outplaying my opponent, but Dugtrio but in some work, outspending a Choice Scarf Diggersby and being able to KO Raikou at the end.

Sadly these are the only matches where Dugtrio wasn't used as fodder or a Memento sack.

Brazilia is my testing account when I try out RMTs and stuff, just in case you were confused.


Sets With Dugtrio


Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stone Edge
- Memento / Sucker Punch / Stealth Rock

This is most likely going to be the standard Dugtrio set, with Earthquake and Reversal to deal the most damage. Stone Edge is useful for hitting Flying Type Pokemon who think they are immune to your Earthquakes. Memento is a latch-ditch effort to switch in a set-up Pokemon possibly. Sucker Punch is used if you want to get off some last damage before you are KO'd by an Aqua Jet or any other priority attack. Maximum Attack and Speed investment ensures Dugtrio hits its hardest at its fastest. This is the same set as the Suicide Rocker set as well, just with the last moveslot filled with Stealth Rock. Dugtrio outspeeds all Spinners/Defoggers in the tier, except Scarf Spinners (*cough* Excadrill *cough*), so it is able to get off some damage if your opponent decides to Defog right away.


Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Reversal
- Sucker Punch

The less common Choice Band Dugtrio hits harder than regular Dugtrio, but is limited in it's ability to handle opponent's team. Trapping and KOing a Pokemon with Earthquake leaves Flying-Types or Levitate users to switch in and get a move off for free. Stone Edge hits those pesky Flying-Types if you are good enough to predict a switch, Reversal is for when you barely live a hit, which you probably won't. Sucker Punch is there for priority damage, and can hit Psychic types who don't expect it hard.
Super Cool Sprites Obtained from here
Is Dugtrio Viable in the Current Metagame?

Short Answer: Sometimes.

Long Answer: Dugtrio is one of the Pokemon whose slight usage will ebb and flow as the Metagame changes, although I predict that it will stay in the lower tiers. If Steel-Types become more popular, you can expect a surge in Dugtrio's usage, probably. Dugtrio is very hard to fit in on a team, because many Pokemon do it's selected job (ridding the opponents team of Steel-Types) as well or better than Dugtrio. For example, take Landorus-T. With a much more powerful STAB Earthquake, and access to U-Turn, Landorus can either hit a Steel-Type with a powerful Earthquake or U-Turn out and generate momentum. The two things that Dugtrio has going for it is it's ability and it's Speed tier. Base 120 Speed outspeeds most of the unboosted Metagame, and definitely all the Steel-Types in the tier, and it's ability allows it to prevent Steel-Type Pokemon from switching out of it's decent STAB Earthquake attack. In fact, Base 120 Speed all Pokemon with < 63 Speed with a Choice Scarf! Magnezone and Tyrantiar are the most common Scarf users that Dugtrio outspeeds. With a Focus Sash and Reversal, Dugtrio is able to also hit Pokemon like Tyranitar and Bisharp for more than 150% of health. Overall, Dugtrio is a niche Pokemon, and you can probably expect it to stay that way (until it gets a super dope Mega Evolution or something). It is a reliable check to fast Steel and Electric types in the tier, although it doesn't hit anything else super hard. If you need a Steel or Electric type Pokemon check, Dugtrio is your three little brown men.

 
Last edited:
ive extended this through sunday (8/21) to get a better weekly schedule (theoretically it would work like start a new week of mons on monday, play a bit with the mon throughout the week and write the post up on friday and the weekend) but this is a reminder that you should still get your posts in soon if youre going to post!
 
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-262867339

Older Dugtrio replay, but I think it shows its strengths well, getting 3KOs and a Memento send off. I think it pairs really well with certain offensive types with Volturn like Mega Pidgeot, Talonflame, Thundurus, etc. As the replay shows, Mega Pidgeot abuses U-Turn to switch to Dugtrio when it's favorable to trap. Knowing I can Volturn into a fast trapper at any moment puts immense pressure on the opponent regarding switching. He never has time to put hazards on the field thanks to the fast favorable matchups I maintain. Serperior also really pairs well.
 
Last edited:

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Diamond Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Protect

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Recover

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split




I made a cool team around dugtrio basically it traps thing like t-tar and heatran which the team is otherwise weak too just thought id share it!
 
I made a lot more teams with Suicune during my time in teambuilder shop so chances are in one of the archives you can find some old ideas. For now this is one of my builds that I usually play test games with.


Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 16 HP / 8 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 80 Def / 172 SpD / 8 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 16 SpA / 40 SpD / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 15 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 136 HP / 124 Atk / 248 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
A lot of the sets are pretty interchangeable, the Gyarados slot is a bit more experimental, so as long as you build with playing around M-Scizor (to a slight extent M-Diancie) in mind you should be good. I'm using the Suicune set in wcop sets thread cause I thought it was super sick, and on sand builds it's actually perfect to me, let's call it Vincune for ease. Suicune is a massively underrated mon, there's so many different variations you can use like the Toxic sets, the classic Crocune, Roar Cune, while sporting massive bulk to provide defensive utility. Some squads can end up keeling over to a Suicune set if they're not prepared for bulkier waters such as this and CM Bro. Not a whole lot to say the purpose of Suicune helps wear down different checks to the members of the team. They all kind of do this in their own way but there are different mons for different positions of set up opportunities depending on matchup. You don't necessarily have to go the sand route with this set if you want to diversify the team a bit better, like using a grass, then ground rocker, go for it. I'm probably going to do that anyways on general down time while focusing on M-Gard + the 3 set up mons.

Replay showing what it does.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-408798825 - Suicune putting a lot of work here, snowballing after the combination of Substitute, CM, the all competitive Scald, making it easier for Clef and friends to do it's thing.

I have a kind of shitty squad with Dugtrio but it's well....really shitty lol. Here's two dope as hell cores with it though.

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- U-turn

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Stone Edge / Rock Tomb
- Reversal
- Stealth Rock
One of the few good checks on defensive oriented teams to Specs Hydreigon is Chansey while some more legitimate switch-ins are usually fatter mons like Tyranitar, granted depending on the position it's in it might not do a whole lot. U-Turn on Hydreigon provides it the ability to maintain momentum against these switch ins and trap them with Dugtrio. Adding Torn-T here makes a nice U-Turn core to trap the likes of Heatran and maintain momentum constantly, use Taunt Torn-T though. Dugtrio set is standard for this core....however....

Pinsir-Mega @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Quick Attack / Feint
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Earthquake
- Screech
- Reversal
- Memento / Stealth Rock / Stone Edge
I'm gonna give credit where it's due here because the Dugtrio set is dope albeit kind of weird. What's sick about this core is that Dugtrio can trap an opposing mon, do it's usual business, and when going out can throw a Screech that Pinsir can take advantage of, either to force a switch out, or kill something off. In the case of just general consistency Memento Dugtrio gives Pinsir some set up opportunities.

Enjoy.
 

Vertex

my beautiful dark twisted curry
vincune in action:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-411660729 - match against wally bully aka xtra jealous of this nigga because he makes better ho's than him. suicune 1v1'ing a paralyzed manaphy and sweeping through the rest of the team.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-411680556 - i choked this end game pretty bad against tele because i have an illness that can only be diagnosed by former ace moderator AM called "not thinking my plays through." despite the loss, it shows vincune doing quite some work.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-411049846 - this match against energy (formerly laurel) shows vincune's ability to stall out serperior's leaf storm and then proceed to destroy the rest of his team. i did manage to get a double protect (it's still 50% chance, higher than scald lmao) which kind of blew but i highly doubt it changed the outcome of the game.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-410576213 - a very friendly ladder match against infernal where vincune manages to get going and get a clutch scald burn against metagross. it was later able to 1v1 rotom-w at the end of the game.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-411472705 - vincune does its share of work against cased on the ladder helping wear down his stall and giving m-heracross free switch-in opportunities.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-410594058 - a gg against lysergic. the main problem is people think calm mind clefable can just crit its way past suicune and start a war and then you set up a substitute (moon doesn't break it) where your opponent comes to the crossroads of getting pp stalled or ask myself to get crit. it takes about 20 scalds to finally dish the critical hit, but yea, this is a good replay demonstrating vincune v clefable.

obviously the team wasn't that great since it never surpassed 1970 elo but these replays are really good demonstrations of how damn good vincune is
 
Last edited:
So, since I'm currently using both Dugtrio and Suicune anyways, I figured I might as well participate here :]



AM already linked my post about Screech Dugtrio from the underrated sets thread and this is the Dugtrio set I’ve been using lately. From my experience Memento is the best option on Dugtrio’s fourth moveslot because it can just become setup fodder for some mons, especially DDLando-T. Dugtrio isn’t a great rocker for obvious reasons but it might be tough to fit another rocker on your team. Stone Edge is the worst option because it doesn’t hit hard at all and only really hits flying types, which you can’t trap and you’re using Dugtrio as trapper and not as check to flying types and unless you’ve shown your whole set, anything weak to Stone Edge will never risk taking the hit and kill Duggy or switch into something that laughs at its attacks.

The reason I like the Screech set the most is that just traps more mons, Chansey being the most notable one here, since even Toxic variants loose if you don't bring Duggy in on a Toxic/SToss. It also has a decent chance to trap and eliminate unsuspecting SR Clefable, which try to take Dugtrio as an opportunity to set up rocks but just get 2HKO'd by EQ after the defense drop. This only works if your opponent doesn’t know the set ofc but I don’t think the set is common enough for everyone to know it.

The pool of mons Dugtrio can trap and eliminate on its own is pretty limited though, so it's only going to benefit certain builds and mons.
The one I played around with was Mega Charizard Y. Heatran, Tyranitar, Diancie and Chansey are the targets for Dugtrio and I think I don't need to explain why Zard Y would like to have them gone. Especially the match-up vs full stall (and most defensive cores in general) is just ridicolously good with Zard Y and Dugtrio trapping Chansey (like here: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-399806929 and http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-387384369). Thanks to Dugtrio trapping the targets Zard would usually attempt to hit with Focus Blast, I was also able to drop this move from my set and put on Rock coverage (Ancient Power/ HP Rock) to also deal with stall teams utilizing Talonflame, like ShedStall, which just loses to this Zard Y set.

Good partners for Dugtrio are also mons, which lure in the targets Dugtrio is supposed to trap and then help at getting Dugtrio in without taking damage. I've played around with stuff like U-Turn Jirachi (for Heatran), Volt Switch Zapdos (Tran and Ttar are pretty common switch-ins) and Colbur Berry Lati@s (takes Ttar's Pursuit and allows Duggy to kill Ttar in return while you keep your Defogger). If you’re using it alongside Zard Y like I do, then ScarfTar is a good partner as well, not only for trapping Latis for Zard Y but also forming a trapper core with Dugtrio since Screech can assist Ttar in getting guaranteed kills with Pursuit.

Dugtrio has its share of flaws, it is match-up-reliant because without targets to trap it's basically dead weight and due to its paper-thin defenses and thus inability to take any moderately powerful hit, succesfully trapping (without taking a hit) can also be very prediction-reliant.
However, if utilized correctly Dugtrio can be an extremely deadly mon.



Suicune has always been one of the most underrated threats in my opinion, many teams are just underprepared for it and struggle to stop it as soon as it starts setting up. The teams I'm talking about here usually don't have any hard hitter, who doesn't fear Scald burns or hits it for super-effective damage and mainly rely on status as their stop to bulky setup water types.

It's just a really solid win condition but it can also pivot into a lot of threats thanks to its amazing bulk and spread burns with Scald to start chipping at the opposing team.
The standard CroCune (Scald,CM,Rest,SleepTalk) already beats CM Clef most of the times thanks to Pressure and by forgoing Sleep Talk for Roar, Cune also beats other mons, which could attempt to set up alongside it and hit it on the physical side (CM + Psyshock). This set obviously works especially well in conjunction with hazard stacking and is really good against balanced /defensive teams relying on setup mons instead of hard hitters to deal damage.
I haven't used the stallbreaker set yet but it’s already been covered very well in the posts above anyways.

Pressure is also a great ability for a defensive setup mons like Cune, because it can cause supposed checks to run out of PP while Suicune just keeps sitting there. Even Amoongus, something that you'd expect to counter Suicune with Giga Drain and Clear Smog to stop the setup can just be pp-stalled until it runs out of both of these mons and eventually drop to burn damage.

Overall, I think Suicune is a pretty self-sufficient mon that doesn't need much support.
Suicune's main weakness is in my opinion its reliance on rest as recovery. Getting rid of status is great but with Sleep Talk you're relying on its rolls to not be taken advantage of and without Sleep Talk you might end up giving your opponent 2 guaranteed free turns if you're not having a cleric in the back.

To finish this up, here are some replays (http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-418894687 + http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-419450983) that show Suicune (and also Dugtrio in the second) putting in a lot of work even though I could have played these games better.
 
closing n_n

the posts being added to the archive are this post on dugtrio by Millionsunz and this post on suicune by Flexxen. there have yet to be any posts on thundurus-t so if anyone feels up to it feel free to make a post about it (even something small!) so i have at least something to archive, though its not the end of the world if no one does.

remember: the archived posts are simply the posts that best summarize the pokemon for future reference. not every post needs to summarize the pokemon; some people may just want to center their posts around one aspect, and that's totally okay. you don't need to follow the guidelines perfectly to post here; they're just there to guide you a bit if you're unsure of what to post.

Week #2


Mega Gallade | Rotom-Heat | Kyurem

this week i wanted to place some focus on mons that face harsh competition from other mons in the metagame but are still viable in ou. mega gallade has fallen out of favor despite all the hype it got early oras, and is now considered for the most part inferior to mega medicham, though it has certain redeeming qualities like a more expansive movepool to let it distinguish itself from medi. rotom-h is another mon thats been out of the spotlight for a while now with a nasty stealth rock weakness and competition from other defensive fire and electric types like heatran and zapdos in its roles. can it still be effective in the current metagame? finally kyurem was picked as the specs set has gained a bit of traction for being able to bypass several standard kyurem-b counters, and kyurem has some other interesting sets to play around with such as subroost.

REMEMBER: you simply pick 1 one of these 3 (or 2 / 3 of them if you want :p) and post here about them after playing around a bit. also, you can use any set you want!

this week is ending next monday (8/29); those of you who want to participate have between now and then to play around with these pokemon and post.​
 
Weekly OU Research Week 2: Mega-Gallade

Knight in Shining Armor?



Gallade has always been one of my favorite Pokemon, with it's awesome design. XY came around, and poor Gallade's sister, Gardevoir, got a super awesome Mega Evolution, and Gallade was left in dust. ORAS eventually rolled out, giving Gallade the Mega Evolution it deserved oh-so much. Mega Gallade surely has fallen in the eyes of competitive battling, facing huge competition from stronger Mega Evolutions, like Mega Medicham (who has better Attack) and Mega Lopunny (who has better Speed). Nonetheless, Mega Gallade has still managed to keep a spot in the OU metagame, technically speaking. While BL might not be considered OU in some's eyes, BL Pokemon can surely do well in the OU metagame, and Mega Gallade is no exception. With Base 165 Attack and Base 110 Speed, Mega Gallade hits fast and hits very hard.

Strategies with Mega-Gallade
Mega Gallade is usually seen on OU team functioning as a Set-Up Pokemon, utilizing moves such as Swords Dance and Bulk-Up to boost it's already high Attack to insane levels. Acting as either a late-game cleaner, or just a win condition in general, Mega Gallade is a Pokemon that few teams will handle easily. With a very good Base 110 Speed tier, Mega Gallade is able to Speed tie Pokemon like Latios, Mega Metagross, and Mega Diancie, and is able to outspeed common threats like Keldeo and Charizard-X/Y. Mega Gallade does not have the mixed stats to function as a mixed attacker, although it does have access to most of the moves it's female counter part does. In general, you are better off using Meg Gallade as a Physical Set-Up Wallbreaker, Sweeper, or Late-Game Cleaner. Due to the fact that Mega Gallade is BL, not many teams prepare for it, giving it a large edge in the current metagame over it's competitors.

How I Built a Team Around Mega-Gallade
Mega Gallade and Bisharp form one of the best cores in Pokemon, and one of the most well-known cores. With Bisharp being able to hit the Psychic-Type Pokemon that Mega Gallade doesn't appreciate, and Mega Gallade eating up the Fighting-Type attacks for Bisharp, the two work very well together. Landorus-T was added to the team because of it's ability to consistently set up Stealth Rock, Hazards that Mega Gallade appreciates very much, as they injure the ever-present Flying-Type Pokemon that Mega Gallade is weak too. Rotom-W was also added to the team to complete a VoltTurn core with Landorus-T, allowing Mega Gallade to hit the field and do damage quite often. Heatran is one of the best Fairy-Type and Flying-Type counters around, making it a must for any Mega Gallade team. Heatran also acts as a StallBreaker, with both Taunt and Toxic shutting down stall teams. Thundurus was added to the team to add Priority Thunder Wave to the team, using it on the few Pokemon that outspeed Mega Gallade.
Gallade-Mega @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Lava Plume
- Flash Cannon

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-422110836 : In this replay Mega Gallade was used as a win-condition, saving it's health for the final turns of the game. Mega Gallade did tons of damage to one of the opponent's walls, and was able to clench the win.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-422118358 : This replay doesn't show a lot of Mega Gallade action, but it does show how well the team functions on it's own. Mega Gallade was able to pick-off Slowbro and Charizard-X at the end as well.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-422136560 : This replay is probably the best for showing Mega Gallade's late-game cleaning. Although the opponent forfeited, you get to see Gallade go ham at the end and take down the rest of the opponents Pokemon.


Sets With Mega-Gallade

Gallade-Mega @ Galladite
Ability: Steadfast / Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Bulk Up
- Close Combat / Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off / Shadow Sneak

This is probably the most common set you'll see Mega Gallade run, and probably the only set you should run. Steadfast can take advantage of Mega Lopunny or Mega Medicham leads, getting a boost in Speed. However, Mega Gallade does have Inner Focus, negating those flinches should you wish to run Justified, which can boost your attack at the risk of losing lots of your health to the Dark-Type attack. Max Attack and Max Speed guarantee that Mega Gallade hits 350 Speed at most and deals the most damage possible (hitting 429 Attack without an Adamant nature). Swords Dance can be run to boost your Attack higher and quicker, although Bulk Up provides an Attack boost along with boosting Gallade's Defense, increasing it's longevity. Close Combat can be a nuke move, although Drain Punch provides recovery for Gallade, allowing it to KO more things. Zen Headbutt is the Psychic STAB of choice, hitting Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss for SuperEffective Damage. Knock Off can be run to hit Psychic-Types but Shadow Sneak can provide Priority, allowing Gallade to revenge kill a little bit.


Is Mega-Gallade Viable in the Current Metagame?

Short Answer: If you want to use it, go ahead.

Long Answer: Mega Gallade is BL for a reason, its very strong. However, it doesn't see that much usage because of better, faster Fighting-Type. Mega Evolutions. Mega Medicham has higher Attack and has Fake Out support. Mega Lopunny is a lot faster, and also has Fake Out support, along with neutral coverage on most Pokemon. That being said, Mega Gallade has its own little niche. Base 165 Attack and Base 110 Speed is nothing to laugh at. Mega Gallade is able to hit most of the current Metagame for large amounts of damage. With great coverage moves in Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, Shadow Sneak, and Knock Off, Mega Gallade is able to hit most Pokemon for at least neutral damage. You will probably see Mega Gallade stay in BL, as it would probably dominate the UU metagame, and I don't predict it to see so much usage it jumps back up to OU. When Sun and Moon rolls around, you may see Mega Gallade surge in usage depending on the Pokemon released from the titles. Mega Gallade is shut down by common Pokemon such as Talonflame, Clefable, Tornadus-T, and Mega Pinsir, basically any Flying-Type or Fairy-Type Pokemon in general. Mega Gallade is no doubt a strong Pokemon to use, with great boosting moves and Base Stats, but it suffers from common weaknesses and faces large competition for the coveted Mega Evolution slot.
 
closing n_n

the post being added to the archive is this post on dugtrio by Millionsunz. there have yet to be any posts on rotom-h or kyurem so if anyone feels up to it feel free to make a post about either of them (even something small!) so i have at least something to archive, though its not the end of the world if no one does.

remember: the archived posts are simply the posts that best summarize the pokemon for future reference. not every post needs to summarize the pokemon; some people may just want to center their posts around one aspect, and that's totally okay. you don't need to follow the guidelines perfectly to post here; they're just there to guide you a bit if you're unsure of what to post.

Week #3


Alomomola | Klefki | Cofagrigus

alomomola is my first choice for this week because its a pokemon thats been getting a lot of attention recently for being incredibly fat and never dying and theres been discussion on it rising in the viability rankings. klefki on the other hand is a pokemon thats been nommed for a drop recently and i also never use this mon so i thought it would be interesting to hear what you guys think about it :o . finally i chose cofagrigus because despite being such a unique pokemon with a couple interesting sets and a pretty cool ability, it hasnt really been under the spotlight much as of late, how is it faring in the ou metagame at the moment?

REMEMBER: you simply pick 1 one of these 3 (or 2 / 3 of them if you want :p) and post here about them after playing around a bit. also, you can use any set you want!

this week is ending next monday (9/5); those of you who want to participate have between now and then to play around with these pokemon and post.​
 

Martin

Trolled, memed, gif’d, and—dare I say—pwn’d
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator

Fat Fish
Alomomola is a nice pick for balanced and defensive teams for a lot of reasons. It is the only really viable WishPasser (unless you count Unaware Clef, which isn't really being used explicitly for passing Wishes due to it's lackluster HP stat) 'cause Wish Chansey is ass relative to standard utility outside of weird multi-wish teams like -Snow's old triple-wish stall. That said, it has lots of other cool stuff going for it, ranging from it's extremely good bulk to it's near-unmatched status-spreading ability to access to Regenerator. That said, it isn't flawless. It's incredibly passive, being setup bait for a lot of stuff, and as such teams with some of it's better cores (e.g. Alomomola+Amoonguss) are dependent on a strong offensive presence in the back due to the general difficulty in building consistent stall squads due to the low viability of the playstyle in general.

In the current metagame environment, Alomomola balance is a good archetype to build provided you have a good understanding of how to build these types of teams. This is because being able to keep things healthy combined with the fact that Alomomola just doesn't die--especially when used in Regenerator cores--is really good if you are a good player. As far as fat waters go, it is definitely up there as one of the better ones and it is right that it is getting attention in places like the VR.

Good sets:
Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 36 HP / 220 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
- Scald

This is the only viable Alomomola set. You can run a more physically defensive spread if you want, but this comes at the cost of the ability to take special attacks. I don't like Knock Off on Alomomola personally simply because Toxic+Scald is nice for pressuring stuff (makes you a little less prone to just sitting in front of stuff) and improves it's ability to spread status, and it makes it a tiny bit less abusable for Pokémon which are not immune to Toxic.

All in all, Alomomola is a good pick provided that the build appreciates it's support. Good partners include Heatran, Amoonguss, Mega Heracross and other Pokémon who appreciate Wish support or the defensive synergy provided by it's typing.
 
closing n_n

the post being added to the archive is this post on alomomola by Martin. there have yet to be any posts on klefki or cofagrigus so if anyone feels up to it feel free to make a post about either of them (even something small!) so i have at least something to archive, though its not the end of the world if no one does.

remember: the archived posts are simply the posts that best summarize the pokemon for future reference. not every post needs to summarize the pokemon; some people may just want to center their posts around one aspect, and that's totally okay. you don't need to follow the guidelines perfectly to post here; they're just there to guide you a bit if you're unsure of what to post.

Week #4


Celebi | Mega Latias | Empoleon

celebi
is a pokemon ive been spending some time playing around with lately, and ive had a lot of fun with it. i'd love to hear what other people think about it and also it has an amazing shiny that nintendo needs to free. mega latias is a pokemon that was hyped up quite a bit a while ago, but now many people are saying its lost its effectiveness. is this true or is it still a capable threat? finally empoleon was the last mon i chose for this week because i have no clue what youre actually supposed to use it for and ive seen some of the people i hang around with using it recently.

REMEMBER: you simply pick 1 one of these 3 (or 2 / 3 of them if you want :p) and post here about them after playing around a bit. also, you can use any set you want!

this week is ending next monday (9/12); those of you who want to participate have between now and then to play around with these pokemon and post.​
 

Celebi@Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 56 SpA / 184 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- HP Fire/HP Ice/Earth Power/Ancient Power
- Thunder Wave/Substitute/Baton Pass

Celebi is a pokemon that I think has been consistently underrated. While it's easy to understand why Tangrowth and Amoongus are the defensive Grass types of choice (Regenerator really is just such a good ability), Celebi has always had the tools necessary at its disposal to be a viable team member, with several advantages over its competition no less. For one, Tangrowth and Amoongus are SLOW. Celebi has a very nice 100 speed tier that allows it to perform as a pivot without necessarily being forced to take two hits consecutively. Also, Natural Cure has its own merits as an ability. It makes it harder to wear down from Scald burns or Toxic. Celebi is one of the most consistent checks to Keldeo for this reason and should not be overlooked, as well as the ubiquitous Rotom-W. And while it doesn't have Regenerator, it does have access to Recover if you are so inclined. In practice, you may find Celebi's bulk surprising compared to Tangrowth thanks to Leftovers, since Tangrowth usually wears Assault Vest or even Rocky Helmet.

Another benefit, more specifically over Amoongus, is its lack of passivity. A solid 100 SpA with access to both Calm Mind and Nasty Plot. I find that a bulky spread that takes advantage of a +2 Giga Drain makes Celebi impressively difficult to break through if given the chance. But it's also a terrific lure that just decimates presumptive safe switch ins with your coverage of choice.

+2 56 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 304-360 (88.6 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 56 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 280-332 (79.5 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 56 SpA Celebi Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Heatran: 400-472 (103.6 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 56 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 436-516 (114.1 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 56 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 420-496 (100.7 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 56 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 410-486 (112.6 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 56 SpA Celebi Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 366-432 (135 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 56 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 246-290 (90.7 - 107%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 56 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 170-200 (56.8 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 56 SpA Celebi Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 332-392 (92.4 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I think this is where Celebi shines. Celebi is deceptively bulky that outside of hyper offensive super effective attacks, it can survive many coverage or neutral STAB moves comfortable and retaliate with a coverage of your own, or predict a switch to something like Tornadus-T or Weavile and nail them with a Thunder Wave.

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 159-187 (39.3 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 166-198 (41 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 330-393 (81.6 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Celebi: 211-250 (52.2 - 61.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 288-342 (71.2 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Celebi: 172-204 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Celebi: 260-307 (64.3 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Manectric Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 184+ SpD Celebi: 154-182 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 218-260 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery

Tyranitar can honestly has a difficult time Pursuit trapping Celebi, Scarf variants in particular. A +2 Giga Drain will heal a significant portion off of a Choice Scarf Crunch, after which you can switch safely. Similarly, CB Tyranitar Pursuit only does about 60% if you don't switch out, again allowing for massive healing or paralysis shenanigans. And then there's always the option of baton passing out to safety! In fact, Keldeo is an AMAZING partner for Celebi who can paralyze fast opponents, BP a +2 while Keldeo easily takes a resisted Pursuit, and then you're free to set up a safe Substitute or in certain circumstances, a +2 Scarf set could feasibly sweep a team.

As for the spread, if you use Substitute max HP allows for 101 Subs that Chansey can't break, easily allowing you to set up to +6. This set does well against Stall as even without any boosts Unaware Quagsire hates Giga Drain. 56 SpA EVs is what allows for the guaranteed OHKO on bulky Mega Scizor after SR with HP Fire, which I felt was necessary. I feel SpD investment is the way to go over physically defensive because it really helps with Draco Meteors and Moonblasts, as Celebi has a pretty good match up against Magic Guard Clefable, even if it has Flamethrower, since Celebi can boost faster and both heal and attack at the same time with Giga Drain, while Clefable can't.

Celebi is very customizable for team purposes though. If you don't feel like Baton Pass or have other means of taking out various Steel types than also consider Celebi's access to Stealth Rock and Healing Wish. With more support moves you can up the defensive investment a bit but I think it's worth it to be a consideration over Amoongus. But Healing Wish is a great and limited move that can easily turn the tide of battle by resuscitating your wallbreaker. Healing Wish sets pair particularly well with Charizard X. Celebi can live and slowdown things like Latios and remove Heatran with Earth Power so Char-X can stick to its STABs, and naturally counters Quagsire all in one. And don't forget Healing Wish dodges Pursuit instead of Baton Pass. So really, Celebi has a LOT of utility in one slot.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-231674833

Only semi-decent replay I could find on hand. Again it's old, but Celebi manages to get rocks up twice while paralyzing two opponents.
 
Last edited:
I think I'll take down a few birds in one stone here if thats alright, starting with Klefki and then moving down on to Mega Latias :)

Weekly OU Research Week 3: Klefki

A Major Key


Back in XY when Klefki was first announced, I thought that it would be a terrible Pokemon. I mean, look at it's design. It's a pair of keys. Literally, thats all it appeared to be, until it's ability was revealed. With Prankster, Klefki was able to turn itself from a useless pair of keys to a formidable utility Pokemon, and also into a little bit of a troll. With great defensive typing giving it only two weaknesses, and a great support movepool, Klefki is able to function as one of the top utility/support Pokemon in the tier.

Strategies With Klefki
Klefki is a strange Pokemon to use, albeit a very fun one. With half-decent stats and a great ability, Klefki doesn't fill any major role on most teams, and is usually just a supportive Pokemon. One of the best moves in Klefki's arsenal, Thunder Wave, allows it to consistently check faster Pokemon for it's teammates, and can effectively stop set-up sweepers in their tracks, if they can be affected by Thunder Wave. Spikes are another one of Klefki's top moves, as it can set up multiple layers with Prankster, going before every Taunt save the rare Thundurus/Tornadus taunt. A dual screens set can also be used, as Klefki is able to get up both screens fairly easily. Commonly seen as a lead, Klefki is able to run Magnet Rise, giving it immunity to other common lead's STAB SuperEffective attacks, specifically Garchomp and Landorus-T. Toxic is another option to run on Klefki to ruin bulkily oriented Pokemon. Klefki also has access to some great STAB attacks, like Play Rough, Flash Cannon, and can hit set-up sweepers with Foul Play. Klefki usually gets up it's Spikes or screens, paralyzes a few Pokemon, and is then sacked efficiently, although it can be kept around to stop a late-game sweep with Thunder Wave.

How I Built a Team With Klefki
Klefki is extremely hard to build a team around, so instead I decided to build a team including it. I decided to opt for Mega Alakazam, mostly because its an underprepared for Mega Evolution that really appreciates the Spike and Thunder Wave support that Klefki adds to the team. I then added Zapdos to check both Mega Lopunny and Birdspam, as I decided to run a Modest Mega Alakazam to pick up a few more KO's then usual. I also like Zapdos because it is defensive enough to tank a few hits and offensive enough to deal some decent damage back. Starmie was added to the team purely because of Rapid Spin support, and because it is able to act as a status absorber with Natural Cure. Scarfed Landorus-T was added to the team to create a more offensive core, while being able to hit Stall teams hard and fast. Landorus-T also completes the VoltTurn core I decided to create with Zapdos, allowing Mega Zam to come in more often and get a KO. Noticing how weak the team was to Weavile, I added Specs Keldeo to the team, who can complete counter Weavile, tanking hits and OHKOing back. Keldeo also appreciates the Spikes support that Klefki provides, and makes the team less weak to stronger, faster attackers.
Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise / Toxic
- Foul Play / Play Rough

Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball / Focus Blast
- Substitute

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 68 SpA / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Volt Switch

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hydro Pump

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Knock Off


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-434467109 Here Klefki was able to put in lots of work, KOing Latios and being able to paralyze Clefable and Mega Medicham
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-434480589 Here we have Klefki again who was able to get up three layers of Spikes, and deal with the possible SubHex Gengar. Zapdos also got to shine, being able to paralyze Azumarill and OHKO Scizor with Heat Wave.


Sets With Klefki

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def or 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Impish Nature or Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Magnet Rise / Toxic
- Foul Play / Play Rough / Flash Cannon

This is your usual Spikes lead Klefki, being able to run either a fully physically or fully specially defensive set, tailoring to your team's needs. Thunder Wave and Spikes are a must on Klefki, allowing it to set up it's hazards and completely stop strong, fast, offensive Pokemon in their tracks. Magnet Rise is a neat option that allows you beat Landorus-T leads and stay in against other Ground-Types. Toxic can also be run if your team struggles with Stall or bulky Pokemon. The final moveslot is used for an attacking move, so that Klefki is not forced to struggle when taunted. I personally prefer to run Foul Play to smack Pokemon like Bisharp who think they can set-up all over you.


Klefki @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def or 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Impish Nature or Careful Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave
- Foul Play/ Play Rough / Flash Cannon

This is your Dual Screens Klefki set, running both Reflect and Light Screen. The Light Clay allows both screens to be set up for at least 7 turns, not counting the one they are set up on. Thunder Wave as previously mentioned is a absolute must on Klefki, allowing it to constantly check faster offensive Pokemon. Once again, the last move is a filler attack so that Klefki isn't complete set-up bait to Pokemon like Bisharp and Mega Scizor, and so that Klefki isn't forced to go for Struggle when Taunted.


Is Klefki Viable in the Current Metagame?

Short Answer: Yes, definitely yes!

Long Answer: Klefki is a great support and utility Pokemon in the OU tier, if not the best. Being able to set up hazards consistently against other leads as well as neuter both strong offensive Pokemon and set-up sweepers with a Prankster Thunder Wave. Klefki is a very consistent Pokemon, who is very good at what it does. Klefki is also unpredictable in the way that it has multiple different support sets that are viable. From Spikes lead to Screens lead, even to gimmicky Fairy Lock Torment sets and Calm Mind sets, Klefki will continue to be a top-tier utility Pokemon. Nothing viable in the tier is as unpredictable as Klefki in the variety of roles it can fill on a team, and the amount of support it can provide said team. While Klefki may not be the most defensive Pokemon in the tier, Klefki is definitely able to tank or evade a hit and retaliate. With a diverse movepool, a great ability in Prankster, and the ability to remain constant with it's jobs no matter what is thrown at it, Klefki will remain one of the best support Pokemon in the tier. Give it a try sometime.


=============================================================================================

Weekly OU Research Week 4: Mega Latias

The Queen of Dragons... Maybe?




Mega Latias is an interesting Pokemon and Mega Evolution, to say the least. The Lati twins have always been staples of the OU tier, ever since their conception in RSE. While Latios is the more offensive one of the twins, Latias is definitely the more defensive one. When the "secret" Mega Evolutions were revealed in XY, nobody really knew what to think about the Mega Lati twins. When they were finally introduced in ORAS, everyone found out what a disappointment the Mega Latis were. The Mega Lati twins are outclassed by their own regular formes, which is rare with a Mega Evolution. Mega Latias did get a nice boost in it's bulk, and a nice boost in it's offenses as well. Although it may be considered outclassed by it's original form, Mega Latias has a nice niche in the OU tier, and it should be interesting to see the effect it has on future metagames.

Strategies with Mega-Latias
Mega Latias has one or two niches in the OU tier, running either a CM sweeper set or a BoltBeam coverage/defensive set. With it's increased defenses, Mega Latias is able to hit a very respectable bulk of 80/120/150. With a great Special Attack stat at 140, Mega Latias is able to utilize Calm Mind to boost both it's Special Defense and Special Attack to insane heights. Not much appreciates a Base 140 +2 Draco Meteor or Psychic/Psyshock. Mega Latias is able to invest solely in HP and Defense, to become a bulky CM sweeper that can tank more hits than one might think. Mega Latias is also able to fulfill the role of a bulky Pokemon, and run amazing BoltBeam coverage. For those of you that don't know, BoltBeam coverage is Ice Beam in conjunction with an Electric type attack, usually Charge Beam or Thunderbolt, giving Mega Latias near perfect coverage. With a defensive set, Mega Latias also has access to Reflect Type, allowing it to change it's type to resist it's opponents STAB attacks. With reliable recovery in both Recover and Roost, Mega Latias is able to fill the role of a defensive Pokemon very well.

How I Built a Team Around Mega-Latias
Mega Latias is defiantly a cool Pokemon to use, as it is very unprepared for and hard to take down once it sets up. I decided to go for the CM Mega Latias set, because it seems like the most fun, and the most useful set to run. I decided to pair Mega Latias up with Gliscor, because of Gliscor's ability to check Clefable and Bisharp, two Pokemon that may trouble Mega Latias. Gliscor is also able to act as a second win-condition, setting up SDs and doing loads of damage. Clefable was then added to the team to act as a Weavile check and a Stealth Rock setter. Clefable also acts as a third win-condition, which may seem necessary, but it allows Mega Latias to be more carefree with how it's played. Keldeo was then added to check Weavile even more, as well as provide the immediate offensive support that the team was lacking. Zapdos was added to the team because of it's ability to reliantly check both Azumarill and Mega Scizor, two Pokemon that would trouble the team. Zapdos is also able to generate momentum with Volt Switch. Finally, Scarfed Tyranitar was added to the team to hit Pokemon like regular Latios and Mega Diancie, two Pokemon that the team would struggle against.
Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 68 SpA / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Heat Wave
- Volt Switch / Defog
- Roost

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Superpower


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-434538169 Here is a replay that shows how well the team works together. Mega Latias doesn't do much this game, but but it shows how solid the team is without Mega Latias needing to set up, with the extra win-conditions.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-434550084 Here is a replay of a match that showcases Mega Latias' potential to late-game clean with Calm Mind. Zapdos was able to put in work again, OHKOing Mega Scizor with Heat Wave and paralyzing the SD Bisharp.


Sets With Mega-Latias

Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe or 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Bold Nature or Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Recover / Roost
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Draco Meteor

This is most likely the set you will you use if you wish to run a CM Mega Latias set. Two different EV spreads can be run, the first one (which I prefer) allows Mega Latias to reach it's maximum physical bulk, allowing it to set-up easier. The second set is used to run a faster Mega Latias, allowing it to outspeed crucial threats like Keldeo and Excadrill, along with Speed tie with Latios, Gengar, and Mega Diancie. Calm Mind is necessary on a CM set, for obvious reasons, and Mega Latias really likes the reliable recovery in either Recover or Roost. Psyshock or Psychic can be run, depending on your personal preference, although Psyshock allows you to hit special walls like Chansey. Draco Meteor is the Dragon STAB of choice, acting like the perfect nuke. However, if you don't like to drop your attack, Dragon Pulse can be run instead.


Latias-Mega (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe or 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam / ThunderBolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover / Roost
- Reflect Type / Thunder Wave
This is the BoltBeam defensive Mega Latias set that you will usually see, if you see it at all. BoltBeam coverage in either Charge Beam or Thunderbolt and Ice Beam provides great coverage. Charge Beam allows you to boost your Special Attack to insane levels, but Thunderbolt gives you immediate power. Reliable recovery in either Recover or Roos is necessary, allowing Mega Latias to stay healthy. The final moveslot can be between Reflect Type, which allows Mega Latias to change it's typing to resist an opponent's STAB, or Thunder Wave, which allows it Speed control. The different EV spreads showcase a more bulky attacker or a faster defensive Pokemon, depending on what you wish to run.

Is Mega-Latias Viable in the Current Metagame?

Short Answer: Pretty much, but it's rare to see.

Long Answer: Mega Latias has a nice niche in the OU tier, being one of the most formidable CM users in the tier. With great stats and access to reliable recovery, its almost confusing why Mega Latias isn't used more. It breaks down into two main things, in my opinion. Mega Latias is rarely used due to the fact that it's a Mega Evolution, and takes up your Mega Evolution slot on your team. In the grand scheme of things, there are many other Mega Evolutions that do many different things better than Mega Latias. Mega Diancie is a better attacker, Mega Alakazam is faster and hits harder, Mega Slowbro is arguably a better CM user, and so on. The other reason Mega Latias is rare is due to the fact that that LO Latios pretty much outclasses Mega Latias in the damage factor, and doesn't eat up your Mega Evolution slot. Regular Latias is able to dish out similar damage to Mega Latias, and still allow for another Pokemon to Mega Evolve. However, regular Latias is not a better CM user that Mega Latias, and Mega Latias is one of the best, second only to Clefable, and maybe Mega Slowbro. Mega Latias is also ranked very high on the viability rankings, because of how good it's CM set and BoltBeam Defensive set can be. Mega Latias has tons of potential, and it will be cool to see how that potential emerges. Feel free to use it if you want, its a surprisingly fun thing to use :)
 
Last edited:

Infernal

Banned deucer.
Contributing a little something for a few Pokemon lacking posts in the archive:

Kyurem
Kyurem is a really cool Pokemon to use from my experience and has been gaining some attention lately with Choice Specs. OU is littered with Pokemon like Landorus-T, Rotom-W, Tangrowth, Amoonguss, and so on. Kyurem has no problem abusing their presence to fire away a powerful Ice Beam or Draco Meteor, both of which are hard attacks to stomach. Respectable bulk and a resistance to types like Water, Grass, and Electric only helps this. Ice is one of the better offensive typings in OU, and Kyurem's Ice Beam is a prime example, being able to 2HKO would-be checks like Clefable and Ferrothorn. On this topic, one of the main reasons Kyurem is known to be a better Choice Specs user than Kyurem-B is because of its higher Special Attack. This means Kyurem can still run Timid to 2HKO Pokemon like Clefable and Ferrothorn, whereas Kyurem-B can't do so without running a positive SpA nature. While this may seem insignificant, it's quite the contrary when you consider the threats a Timid nature allows Kyurem to be faster than (neutral nature base 100s like Mega Medicham).

While Kyurem's STABs are definitely scary and powerful, Pokemon like Mega Scizor, Heatran, Mega Metagross, and Jirachi can stomach them. However, Kyurem does have moves like Earth Power, HP Fire, and Focus in its arsenal to threaten them on the switch in, although requiring prediction. Simply clicking Draco Meteor or Ice Beam will end up dealing a good chunk to the majority of resists in the tier though, with Mega Metagross taking 48.8 - 57.4% from a Timid Draco for example. As such, you can usually mindlessly click one of your STABs and still deal a nice blow to whatever comes in.

A good example of a team with Choice Specs Kyurem would be Posho's OLT one found here. Here, Kyurem's ability to 2HKO Pokemon like Clefable is taken advantage of Latios, who appreciates having many of its checks broken by its fellow Dragon-type. Latios also provides hazard removal with Defog, which is crucial alongside Kyurem because SR really limits its ability to come in repeatedly to do its thing. From there, the team has pivots like Mega Scizor, who can use U-turn to bring Kyurem in for free on Pokemon like Skarmory and Landorus-T, both of which are free invitations to launch an Ice Beam.

Cofagrigus
Although it's not the best Pokemon out there, Cofagrigus does have some interesting characteristics. Mummy is the main one and pairs nicely with its Ghost-typing to neutralize threats like Mega Lopunny and Mega Medicham after they attack you with a move. Other Pokemon who are made much more threatening by their abilities, like Azumarill, and Mega Metagross, also fall under the umbrella of things Cofagrigus can cripple with Mummy. After these Pokemon have had their abilities removed by Mummy, Cofagrigus can take advantage of a potential switch by using several tools in its arsenal, such as:
  • Will-O-Wisp: This works well alongside Cofagrigus' ability and respectable bulk, allowing you to further cripple physical attackers and spread burns.
  • Toxic Spikes: This is used exclusively on defensive sets and allows Cofagrigus to function as a hazard setter. Toxic Spikes are rare, and Cofagrigus is one of its few viable user in my opinion. Although Toxic Spikes aren't as effective in OU given how many common Pokemon are immune to them (Heatran, Landorus-T, Latios, Rotom-W, Clefable, Amoonguss, and so on), they're still an option for some teams. Notable threats like Keldeo, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Manectric are all vulnerable, so Toxic Spikes can certainly be deadly in some match-ups. Defensive Cofagrigus has received some attention before by well known players like Stathakis and FlamingVictini, as seen here.
  • Trick Room: This is used on more offensive sets and has been discussed before by players like blunder as seen here. Cofagrigus has the bulk and typing to activate TR reliably enough, and can use the few turns to its advantage with NP to power itself up and a nice STAB move in Shadow Ball to attack afterwards. Cofagrigus' ability to activate TR can also prove beneficial for potential partners like Mega Heracross, who is mainly held back by its speed.
This aside, Cofagrigus isn't very common for a reason. It's really niche overall and isn't particularly easy to find a place for on teams, especially with much better options available in OU in terms of Pokemon. The lack of reliable recovery hurts and limits the effectiveness of defensive sets. Cofagrigus also has mediocre special bulk and has an undesirable weakness to Dark. This is very unfortunate for a defensive Pokemon given how common and popular threats like Weavile, Tyranitar, Bisharp, and Keldeo are in OU.

Here are some replays showcasing how well Cofagrigus can perform sometimes. I saw these a while ago while lurking the forums and found them cool: #1, #2.

Example team with Cofagrigus by paper dreams. Team is offensive in nature, focusing on laying down hazard as soon as possible and then applying offensive pressure to keep them from being removed (Bisharp, for example, discourages Defog attempts). Cofagrigus helps blocks Rapid Spinners like Starmie from removing the team's hazards, all while being offensively threatening between TR and NP.

(link)

Rotom-H
On the surface, Rotom-H appears to be a cool Pokemon given its unique Fire + Electric typing. This typing gives Rotom-H a good number of resistances to types like Grass, Fire, Electric, Bug, and so on. This allows the little oven to check certain threats better than its competitor Rotom-W can. Examples include Serperior, Mega Manectric, and Mega Scizor. The ability to check offensive Fire-types like Charizard-Y and Volcarona, who normally run Grass-type coverage, is also nice. A resistance to Fairy is cool as well and enables Rotom-H to check threats like Mega Altaria and Clefable when running Snatch to steal their boosts and recovery.

Regardless of these pros though, Rotom-H has some problems. Stealth Rock is the main one. While checking many of the aforementioned threats may seem wonderful, Rotom-H's ability to do so is greatly hindered by Stealth Rock. Having to deal with 25% worth of residual damage upon switching in is very detrimental for any defensive Pokemon and really limits Rotom-H's ability to check threats as consistently as it'd like to. Related to its SR weakness is a susceptibility to Rock-type moves, meaning common Pokemon like Landorus-T, Mega Diancie, Tyranitar, and so on, are all very threatening for Rotom-H. Aside from this, Rotom-H faces extreme competition from two main Pokemon in OU: Heatran and Rotom-W, who funnily enough both threaten Rotom-H and are everywhere nowadays. As a defensive Fire-type, Heatran is much better between the lack of a SR weakness, access to rocks, and ability to handle a much higher pool of threats while still being offensively threatening. Rotom-W is similarly better, handling a very wide number of Pokemon in OU and sporting better pivoting abilities thanks to the lack of a SR weakness. These two Pokemon are A+ in viability and metagame staples for a reason, and their popularity / sheer effectiveness gives Rotom-H little opportunity to shine.

Example team with Rotom-H by paper dreams. Uses the Snatch Rotom-H briefly discussed before:

(link)

Empoleon

Empoleon is rather cool. Water / Steel as a typing is a beautiful and gives Empoleon very valuable resistances to Water, Dragon, and Fairy. Coupled with its good bulk, this allows Empoleon to check some notable threats in OU, such as Latios and Mega Diancie. Aside from this, the penguin also has access to some really cool supporting moves, namely Stealth Rock and Defog. With this, it's able to function as both a hazard setter and remover. These two roles are very valuable in OU and can make Empoleon an attractive option for some teams. Add other moves like Scald, Knock Off, Toxic, and Roar into the picture and you have a nifty supporting Pokemon overall.

I prefer using Empoleon 'offensively' rather than defensively. By this, I mean a few things: 1. using either SR or Defog, followed by near max HP and the remaining EVs in special attack (Empoleon is surprisingly powerful), and 2. using resistance berries like Shuca and Chople. From my experience, using Empoleon as a pure defensive Pokemon is generally ineffective and makes the penguin really passive. Empoleon is naturally bulk and only really needs to run HP to still check Pokemon like Latios and friends. By running resistance berries and investing in special attack, Empoleon can actually pull some cool tricks and surprise your opponents. For example, with Shuca Berry and near max special attack, you can tank an EQ from Landorus-T and then kill back with either Scald or Ice Beam. This can work hugely in your favor given how vital Landorus-T is to many teams. With a Chople Berry and a move like Flash Cannon, you can stomach a Focus from threats like Mega Gardevoir and then proceed to shave off a good chunk of its health. Need to urgently use Defog or SR? Your resistance berry will normally allow you to do this when coupled with Empoleon's natural bulk.

Example team with Empoleon by paper dreams. Empoleon is used offensively here with Shuca Berry as described above. Also has HP Fire, which is a cool tech to 2HKO Ferrothorn and deal a nice blow to Mega Scizor. Also carries to Defog to remove hazards for Charizard-X and the remaining respective members.

(link)
 
Last edited:
closing!

the posts being added to the archive are this post by Jaroda on celebi; this post by Millionsunz on klefki and mega latias; and this post by Infernal (#FreeInfernal) on kyurem, cofagrigus, rotom-h, and empoleon.

i know this thread has been neglected for a few weeks now, and im sorry about that. general procrastinating + school + forgetting + me losing some interest in oras is generally why. unfortunately the thread has had pretty consistently low activity throughout its lifespan as well and although i feel kind of bad about this especially after only 4 weeks i think it would be best to just end it now :/

mods please lock this
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top