Overused pokemon: Underused Sets - An OU RMT

[ImMrCow]

Will update with Scizor in the RMT later.
Introduction:
I was making a new team, and I was running out of ideas, so I looked in the strategy pokedex, and I saw some interesting sets that no one seems to use. I tried out a few of these and was pleasantly surprised. It focuses on a quick Stealth Rock setup, while preventing opposing rocks, creating a pivot turn to keep the battle in the tempo I want, and bulky sweepers that are unexpected, so people don't have counters for the specific sets I run. So, without furthur ado, here's the team:

With the naked eye:

Through the Microscope:

Azelf @ Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Flamethrower

Why this Pokemon: Azelf give me a balance between a quick Stealth Rock setup and a setup preventer. Taunt stops things like Roserade from sleeping me, and things like Metagross and Bronzong from setting up on me. Explosion is when I'm facing a non-steel lead and I've already lost my sash, exploding lets me take something with me while losing little of my own. Flamethrower lets me beat out Forretress leads by simply killing them, and if my sash is still intact, lets me hurt Meta and Rose leads. Azelf is a versatile pokemon, but it's not much use past the first 3 turns, so I usually end up exploding. Since this is a suicide lead, synergy isn't very important on this either, therefore, I won't list it.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/176 Spd/80 Atk
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Baton Pass
- Recover Suggested

Why this Pokemon: Suggested by Dormin, this set lets me have a free turn when I switch it into the likes of Swampert or Hippowdon, and they think I'm specially based. Then, fire off a swords dance, BP to Flygon, Scizor or Gyara, and Wreak havoc with the extra power. Not only can it baton pass, but after a swords dance, it OHKO's TTar, a very common switch in to Celebi for God knows what reason. It is a great supporter and helps set up many sweeps. Not much explanation in this one, sorry.

Synergy: Bug goes to Heatran and Flygon. Fire goes to Heatran and Gyarados. Ghost and Dark goes to Heatran

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/ 4 Atk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Explosion

Why this Pokemon: This is the second part of the infamous CeleTran combination which covers each others' weaknesses. I changed Heatran to a ShucaTran, because I didn't want to have 3 Choice users on a team. ShucaTran is still good, I can bluff a scarf when I flamethrower and then switch out against Salamence, then the next time, nail it with Dragon pulse. Shuca Berry is great for survivability, and it lets me beat other Heatran. ShucaTran can also beat things like Mixmence in a one on one if he has full health. Take the EQ, and slam back with Dragon Pulse. Not much to say, not too big of a change from the scarf set. Also, if I encounter a TrickRachi, I can use this to absorb it, giving me a useful scarf and a good revenge killer.
Synergy: Ground goes to Celebi, Gyarados, Flygon and Azelf. Fighting goes to Celebi, Gyarados, Azelf. Water goes to Celebi and Gyarados.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/176 Spd/80 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt

Why this Pokemon: Again, you're probably opening your eyes, wide in amazement. If you haven't used this set, DO IT! People expect the standard Iron Head Choice Scarf Jirachi, so they switch out things like Tyranitar and weaker things like Blissey while you Sub up, CM a few times, and do a semi-sweep. Most of the time, I can sweep around 3-4 pokes and then I'm taken out thanks to Life Orb and Substitute. Special Jirachi has a surprise factor and it lets you set up pretty easily. Also, people send in physical walls against this, only to get a thunderbolt in their face. It sucks that Swampert walls this, but that's what Celebi is for.

Synergy: Fire goes to Heatran and Gyarados. Ground goes to Gyarados, Celebi, Flygon and Azelf.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Stone Edge

Why this Pokemon: I needed an electric immunity because I had a pokemon that was practically a lightningrod: Gyarados. At first I had CB Electivire, but that gave me too many ground weaknesses, so I took a ground immunity and added an electric immunity and I got Flygon. Flygon helps me keep the battle in my favor by absorbing earthquakes and TWaves aimed at Heatran and Jirachi. It also helps me create sweeping opportunities by U-turning and then sending in a counter that can setup and potentially end the game. I want to replace Stone Edge for something, because it's really just filler. Flygon is the star of this team even though it isn't the main sweeper, it creates great opportunities for game ending sweeps, and can hurt many things with Outrage and Earthquake too.

Synergy: Ice goes to Heatran and Jirachi. Dragon goes to Heatran and Jirachi. Need help on this synergy. I can't really keep this one alive if it meets Ice Shard Mamo, or an Outraging Mence. I don't have many Dragon resists.

Gyarados @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 132 HP/108 Atk/100 Def/168 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Why this Pokemon: I wanted another pokemon that could help get rid of my Bug and Fire weaknesses, but could also sweep well. BulkyGyara isn't used much today, and I wonder why. This thing can get in multiple DD's which it's counterpart, Offensive Gyarados, has trouble with. This can switch in on things like Infernape, Non-HP Electric Vappy and others, setup and sweep the crap out of everything. If it gets an extra SD from Celebi, I can sweep with +3 Atk and +1 speed. Ev'd to outspeed +nature base 130's like Jolteon and Crobat after a Dragon Dance. BulkyDDros is an amazing sweeper, and I think everyone should use him.

Synergy: Electric goes to Flygon. Rock goes to Flygon, and Celebi.

Conclusion:
Well, that's my (kind of)original team, Rate/Hate, do whatever. I might post a threat list, but most likely won't, because that is pretty time consuming, and I'm not a very patient person =P Besides, I already put in a good amount of time into this RMT. Thanks for looking and for rating!

 

[Banryu]

I love the unusuality on Jirachi and Celebi. =3 I also give you props for using my all-time favorite Pokemon (Flygon :D).

Off the top of my head, I don't see any glaring weaknesses, but maybe someone else can give you a more in-depth analysis... It looks fine to me, though.

 

[mtr]

An interesting team. CBGon is surprisingly rare, although the set itself is pretty good.

Any Gaping Holes? (offensive threats)
As it is, a DDMence messes you up quite badly, as does DDGyara. They can set up on Earth Power from Heatran, an Earthquake from Flygon, and in the case of Salamence, even on Celebi if the opponent figures out the set. Your only recourse against Salamence is to attempt to Intimidate-and-Run with Gyarados and Heatran, which still means you end up at a loss. Against Gyarados, I guess you have Celebi, but an LO-Gyara with Ice Fang wins anyways. The easy way to fix this is to put a Choice Scarf on Flygon or Jirachi. If you don't want to do this, you could try a defensive RT Gyara.

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/6 SAtk
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
---
One of the best anti-metagame Pokemon in the entire game, countering Lucario, Heatran, and DDMence (and Scarftran can check Mixmence, I guess). I'm not sure your team could make too great a use of it, though, so I recommend using a Choice Scarf somewhere along the line on Jirachi or Flygon.

Any Unbeatable Bulwarks? (Defensive Threats)
To be frank, you suffer against the Heavy Stall archetype as it is, but that is easily fixed: use a standard SubCM Jirachi rather than the set you have now. That way, between Heatran and Jirachi, you have a fairly easy way to beat a stall team. Surprisingly, we were discussing this on IRC today: the Leftovers are what make the Jirachi work. Without them, Blissey wins, and thus, stall wins.

Is it optimal?
As I see it, you have two ways of going about this team: making it an offensive team and making it a balanced one.

If you want to make it offensive, put a Choice Scarf on Flygon (or use a physical TrickScarf Jirachi, but I recommend it on Flygon simply because I hate having more than 2 Choice items) and maybe use a DDLO Gyarados. Perhaps use an SD Mixape over Heatran, but that's a more expansive change, and should be attempted later if at all.

If you want to make it balanced, use the RT Gyara I suggested, and use a standard SubCM Jirachi. Maybe change the Azelf lead out for a Swampert or whatever, because balanced teams demand more from their lead than Stealth Rock.

Anything else?
If you don't feel like posting a threat list in the future, just post a problems list of 3 or 4 Pokemon that give you trouble. However, I would recommend a threat list, even if all you say is one Pokemon to answer each threat, just so raters have a quick idea of how you play your team.

 

[ImMrCow]

@mtr: Thanks for the rate. I have had some problems with Jirachi's longevity, I will test the Leftovers. For now, DDMence isn't going to be setting up much, because I generally Pulse with Heatran and U-turn with Flygon, I'll try out a Swampert Lead with Avalanche and see how it works. I will update the thread in a few hours with team changes if I decide they're good.

 

[mtr]

@mtr: Thanks for the rate. I have had some problems with Jirachi's longevity, I will test the Leftovers. For now, DDMence isn't going to be setting up much, because I generally Pulse with Heatran and U-turn with Flygon, I'll try out a Swampert Lead with Avalanche and see how it works. I will update the thread in a few hours with team changes if I decide they're good.

Makes sense. That's definitely the best course of action to take. Of course, it's probably best to make two versions of this team, an offensive one and a balanced one, and see which one you like best.

 

[ImMrCow]

Ok, I've playtested for a day and I've found the following problems. Swampert gives me lots of trouble because it can seriously dent all of my pokes and if I switch in Celebi, the opponent switches in something like Blissey or Heatran to stop me dead cold. Next, the one time I ran into it SkarmBliss fucking raped me. I mean no joke. Bliss TWaved Gyara, leaving Flygon as the only physical attacker. I need to change some poke's sets, but don't know which ones. Also, having problems fighting DDMence seeing as nothing outspeeds after a DD and Jirachi can't OHKO with Tbolt and it's the only thing that's surviving long enough to have a chance at stopping it. Much help would be appreciated on these problems.

 

[franky]

Good team, got a couple of suggestions. Firstly, I'd like to make a suggestion with the use of Toxic Spikes, which is something your team currently needs to make their sweeps more successful. Jirachi, Gyarados, and Heatran hates bulky waters, most noticeably Vaporeon and Swampert, and you can take advantage of this by luring them in. I'd like to make a Smeargle lead suggestion over Azelf.

Smeargle
@ Focus Sash
Joly Nature (Spe+ / SpA-)
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes
- Endeavor

Smeargle just fits in in my opinion without rattling the entire team. Fitting in both Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock on Smeargle is something he can do. The premise is to Spore slower leads like Swampert and proceed to get down Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes. Endeavor is such an important move to place Swampert's HP at low range, enough for your entire team to finish off or threaten. This way Swampert won't be a hassle throughout the course of the match, and Jirachi can sweep much easier. Endeavor softens up bulky walls, and lets your team beat the rest.

Leftovers on Jirachi is absolutely needed to recover off Sub, Life Orb and Sub don't mesh at certain times and Jirachi really needs Leftovers. Leftovers also helps get more CM and a chance to get another Sub down.

As for other options, Taunt could make space over Earthquake on that slot on Gyarados. The reason is, it prevents Stall from having an easy Wish-pass, recover, set-up, Thunder Wave, etc. It gives them pressure to switch-out. Keep the current EVs if you wish, i would keep it to smash Rotom switch-ins on the spot. Overall gl.

 

[The SPrinkLer]

I believe a Scizor would be doing more for the team than Jirachi. It provides a reliable check to Salamence, and adds another physical attacker. You should try the CB set.

Scizor @ Choice Band
Adamant nature
EV's: 248 hp/252 att/ 8 spd
-Bullet Punch
-U-turn
-Superpower
-Pursuit

This set will also help with Latias, as your team looks a little weak to it, with Flygon being the only check.

 

[Dormin]

Thanks for the PM! Looks like a good team, but I think it could use more focus. Plus, this team made me think of something really cool that you could use which no one uses. I mean no one.

First off, Azelf. Seems fine given what you are trying to do (set up fast rocks). I would definitely consider/test franky's suggestion of a Smeargle lead though, since it can easily cripple a team from the get-go by theoretically incapacitating one with Spore, setting up hazards, and then bringing another down to 1 HP. This could be very helpful given the fact that you are looking for a Gyarados sweep.

Speaking of which, I think you can make this team really cool, unique, and overall effective by giving Celebi a phyical baton pass set:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Jolly
EVs: 252 HP, 80 Atk, 176 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Seed Bomb
-Baton Pass
-Recover

Not only does this make Celebi practically immune to pursuit (87% chance of OHKOing standard CBTar after rocks and Baton Passing out of Scizor), but it also has the potential to do wonders for the rest of your team. In order to help out Gyarados for a potential sweep, your going to need Pursuit somewhere to KO common counters like opposing Celebi and ScarfLatias. To fulfill this purpose, I suggest a standard CBScizor over Jirachi. I'll explain more about how helpful this is in a minute.

In addition, I don't see the need for Heatran to run a Choice Scarf when you have arguably the most solid scarfer in the game with Flygon. I think it could do a lot with a more effective set. While Heatran can be very versatile, I think your team could do a lot with an LO or Choice Specs set. Given the fact that you have some troubles with stall, I would recommend LO Heatran with Explosion. Or, you could use Expert Belt/Shuca Berry on the LO set to bluff a scarf, which can be very effective.

Finally, Gyarados. It has alreadly been mentioned how your team has troubles with stall, and given the fact that Gyarados is probably your best shot at a set-up sweep with this team, I would recommend a jolly nature or even a complete switch to BulkyDDdos. With Scizor pursuiting counters and Celebi Baton Passing Swords Dances, you shouldn't miss the extra attack too much, but a lack of speed without jolly could lose you a match (Jolteon being the prime example after a DD on the switch). Bulkydos is also a good choice given taunt to incapacitate stall.

Now, to extrapolate more on the power of SDBPCelebi on this team, lets take a look at the changes. By BPing a Swords Dance to Scizor, you have a huge potential at sweeping with Bullet Punch given Choice Band AND Swords Dance. In addition, BPing to Gyarados could give him another turn to DD (might want to just attack given what you know about the opposition's counters), which could easily sweep a team with +3 Atk, +1 Speed. You might also find a couple of matches where Celebi sweeps by itself. Heck, even Flygon would enjoy an SD to wreak havoc with Outrage. Overall, I think SDCelebi is definitely something to at least try out on this team. I hope I helped! Good luck!

PS: You might consider Thunderpunch over Stone Edge on Flygon given the fact that opposing Gyarados could break through your Celebi, given its offensive nature.

 

[ImMrCow]

I tested your suggestions, Dormin, and it's working out great. Who thought such a weird set could turn the battle so quickly? But I do have a few problems: Physical walls. Since my team has become almost all physical, I have near nothing to stop the likes of Swampert, Skarmory and Hippowdon from stopping me dead cold. I don't want to give Heatran HP Grass because Explosion is such a valuable move, but that's really the only problem. Also, I need a reliable check for Lucario, ScarfTran used to be a check, but since I took it out, I don't have anything that can kill it. Lucario outspeeds and OHKO's Scizor with CC, can 2HKO Celebi, who can't hurt him anyway, Flygon has a chance to live if he doesn't take SR damage, Tran is OHKO'd, and Gyara get's OHKO'd by ES if SR is in play, and I think in general too. Need help on those 2 problems.

 

[Dormin]

Hmmmmm you are very right about that Luke weak. I think I need to backtrack a little on suggestions.

First off, this Luke weak really makes Scizor a hindrance for the team. With the Lucario problem and the fact that you are having trouble with walls, I would suggest a the physical mix Jirachi with Expert Belt. This way, you still retain a Swords Dance receiver and can now take down Hippowdon and Swampert while bluffing a scarf.

With this change I would actually recommend HP Grass over Dragon Pulse on Heatran. Salamence is going to be faster anyway, and with HP Grass you have a second option against Swampert.

As for Skarmory, I would try the BulkyGyara I suggested for awhile. With Taunt, Skarmory can no longer stop that sweep. I would test with these changes, and sorry about that Lucario oversight. I guess I just got too caught up in SD Celebi.

 

[ImMrCow]

Hmm. Maybe, I could get rid of CB Scizor, and put the scarf back on heatran, in which case I should keep Pulse over HP Grass, although the ability to deal with swampert would be great. I could revenge kill Lucario then. In place of CB Scizor, I could try AgiliGross, which could still recieve Sword's Dance and fire off bullet punches and meteor mashes stronger than ever. Add in 524 speed after an agility, and you have yourself a monster. What do you think?