Okay so.
Any reason why Pain Split isn't banned yet?
Any reason why Pain Split isn't banned yet?
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Metagame Pacifistmons
- Thread starter fanyfan
- Start date
struggle broke and trick can use scarf so its ok to ban
whirlwind exists and even tho magic coat exists they can't do it forever
also psong, can be encore'd into
not super broken imo
while centralizing it would be one of the few ways to break ferrothorn and other steel types
if salazzle's banned a lot hsould go with it
Assault Vest : it's really stupid. It puts the other player at an immediate disadvantage because they have to immediately go to Swoobat/Accelgor (and risk a Toxic on the switch) or risk losing one mon to it. Other countermeasures include faster Sub and Weezing, but Swoobat has 114 base speed and outspeeds nearly everything and Weezing should go, like, now.
Sub is healthy in my opinion. It does not shield you from phazing/psong (though it does block Mean Look), there's a good Infiltrator user in Whimsicott and Sub comes with a big cost in HP to compensate the protection. Also, without sub, dealing with mean look, trick and corrosion becomes almost impossible.
HDB makes steel and poison types a pain to deal with. I would happy to see it leave because it would speed up the game. Also, HDB poisons/steels are quite a pain to deal with.
Recycle (+ Harvest as it works essentially the same) : The few times I've run into it it wasn't that much of a problem. Unnerve, while not being exactly the best ability, can work as a countermeasure, and there's a lot of mons that get it.
Salazzle : I believe it would be ok with both HDB and leftovers/black sludge banned. What it essentially does is spreading Toxic regardless of immunities (which is the only thing that makes steel and poison types manageable) and the usual Encore/Disable cancerous thingy. It's certainly quite annoying, but it's weak to Steal Rocks and you can play around Toxic.
Something, however, needs to be done quickly. The meta is not fun to play at all currently past the very low ladder, because the only way to deal with a great number of things is to repeatedly set up the same strategy over and over again ("burn Weezing with Salazzle", "make Weezing switch into one layer of Spikes", "hope that your Salazzle wins the speed tie") until the opponent runs out of pp for Aromatherapy or Defog or whatever.
I think that Weezing, leftovers, black sludge and heavy duty boots just make the games longer and less interesting, and quickbanning these would be a nice first step. Weezing is just cancer, period. There is simply no consistent way of dealing with it, besides maybe PSong (which means just Haunter/Gengar, and can be played around easily). It's got Defog, Aromatherapy and Pain Split, is immune to trapping abilities, cannot be poisoned by any means, can freely choose between hazard immunity (HDB) or burn immunity (black sludge), makes Klutz + Trick a joke, etc., etc.
Lefties alleviate the cost of using Sub, make everything harder to kill and make burn pointless. They also make the game less interesting from the strategic point of view. HDB are also kinda brain dead. Systematic pp stall wars to break past the opponent's poison and steel types are not exactly fun and I believe banning these two will help to make the meta more enjoyable.
Sub is healthy in my opinion. It does not shield you from phazing/psong (though it does block Mean Look), there's a good Infiltrator user in Whimsicott and Sub comes with a big cost in HP to compensate the protection. Also, without sub, dealing with mean look, trick and corrosion becomes almost impossible.
HDB makes steel and poison types a pain to deal with. I would happy to see it leave because it would speed up the game. Also, HDB poisons/steels are quite a pain to deal with.
Recycle (+ Harvest as it works essentially the same) : The few times I've run into it it wasn't that much of a problem. Unnerve, while not being exactly the best ability, can work as a countermeasure, and there's a lot of mons that get it.
Salazzle : I believe it would be ok with both HDB and leftovers/black sludge banned. What it essentially does is spreading Toxic regardless of immunities (which is the only thing that makes steel and poison types manageable) and the usual Encore/Disable cancerous thingy. It's certainly quite annoying, but it's weak to Steal Rocks and you can play around Toxic.
Something, however, needs to be done quickly. The meta is not fun to play at all currently past the very low ladder, because the only way to deal with a great number of things is to repeatedly set up the same strategy over and over again ("burn Weezing with Salazzle", "make Weezing switch into one layer of Spikes", "hope that your Salazzle wins the speed tie") until the opponent runs out of pp for Aromatherapy or Defog or whatever.
I think that Weezing, leftovers, black sludge and heavy duty boots just make the games longer and less interesting, and quickbanning these would be a nice first step. Weezing is just cancer, period. There is simply no consistent way of dealing with it, besides maybe PSong (which means just Haunter/Gengar, and can be played around easily). It's got Defog, Aromatherapy and Pain Split, is immune to trapping abilities, cannot be poisoned by any means, can freely choose between hazard immunity (HDB) or burn immunity (black sludge), makes Klutz + Trick a joke, etc., etc.
Lefties alleviate the cost of using Sub, make everything harder to kill and make burn pointless. They also make the game less interesting from the strategic point of view. HDB are also kinda brain dead. Systematic pp stall wars to break past the opponent's poison and steel types are not exactly fun and I believe banning these two will help to make the meta more enjoyable.
Assault Vest is broken for two reasons.
1: The good old Trick + Vest + Klutz thing can cripple a pokemon , turning said pokemon into dead weight which can only struggle. Which brings me into...
2: It allows pokemon to attack. I personally have used this strategy, and it is very successful at killing a few pokemon with attackers such as Kyurem-B and Necrozma-DM. Yes, I know it only work with a swords dance baton pass boost , but if you can pull it off, it's broken. The only thing that can stop it is niche stuff like Whirlwind Snorlax.
Like Yozora said,
1: The good old Trick + Vest + Klutz thing can cripple a pokemon , turning said pokemon into dead weight which can only struggle. Which brings me into...
2: It allows pokemon to attack. I personally have used this strategy, and it is very successful at killing a few pokemon with attackers such as Kyurem-B and Necrozma-DM. Yes, I know it only work with a swords dance baton pass boost , but if you can pull it off, it's broken. The only thing that can stop it is niche stuff like Whirlwind Snorlax.
Like Yozora said,
Assault vest is basically a death sentence for a pokemon that can't abuse it; and for the Struggle strat, it defeats the meta's purpose. BAN ASSAULT VEST.
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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pacifistmons-1090467003
this is high level play in this tier
(I'm tohruwu)
this is high level play in this tier
(I'm tohruwu)
Alright, I've played this meta a lot since it got on main (well, a lot might be an understatement, I basically stayed up for 15 hours playing it), and there's been a few things I've noticed.
- Trapping is everywhere, and its absolutely unhealthy. Legit every team I've seen on the ladder has had some form of trapping, and in some cases, multiple ways to do so. I'm not just talking Arena Trap or Shadow Tag either, but also Block and Mean Look as well. The latter 2 in particular are problematic, since you can't easily guess everything that can get them, and are harder to ignore via Neutralizing Gas. Its so bad that my most successful team has 3 Pokemon with Shed Shell, and an extra one with pivoting. Please, trapping absolutely needs to go before this meta will be healthy.
- Assault Vest isn't broken in my opinion, but should likely be banned anyway. Assault Vest in itself doesn't easily win games, but it does kinda ruin the point of the meta, which is grounds enough for a ban. The other reason that people have given for banning it, however, doesn't particularly strike me as a good reason; Klutz Assault Vest sounds broken on paper, but while it can win games on its own, that's not really the fault of Assault Vest, but Trick/Switcheroo as a whole. Like I've won way too many games with just Trick+Choice item, so it absolutely doesn't appear to be the problem with this set.
- When I finally topped the ladder for the first time, I had such a burning hatred of Swagger and Confuse Ray. They aren't broken, but are really annoying to deal with, since its bad enough that you take damage 1/3 of the time, but you also don't get to move. This especially gets stupid when trapping is thrown into the mix (
), since you can just easily lose games that you otherwise should've won with no hesitation, but RNG just says no. - Substitute seems broken on paper, but there are plenty of ways to deal with it. The first, and more obvious way, is phazing. There are plenty of Pokemon that get phazing, and a lot of them are really good. Another way to deal with Substitute is Perish Song, which, when combined with hazards, can easily put the sub in a much worse position. My personal favorite way to deal with Substitute, however, is Infiltrator. Infiltrator gives you soooo many tools to beat substitute its actually insane. Infiltrator Trick/Switcheroo let's you basically kill the mon that thought they were safe, Infiltrator Leech Seed (via Whimsicott) means they take some nice draining, especially since very few Pokemon are immune to Leech Seed, and one that I haven't yet tested (emphasis on the "yet") is Infiltrator Trapping (via Malamar/Meowstic). Of course, there's the boring standard Infiltrator Toxic and the like, but those are less interesting to talk about.
- Heavy-Duty Boots haven't been showing themselves to be broken, though this is trapping format, so maybe this'll change when that's banned. Honestly, I don't really have much to say about boots right now, just that there seems to be much bigger fish to fry.
- I haven't seen recycle berry often (boo, bad puns!), and it never really won the game when it did show itself, but I get the reason for banning it, since it kinda defeats the purpose of the recovery ban. One thing I do feel like would need to be addressed if you ban Recycle, however, is that you'd need to ban Pain Split at the same time, or even sooner; its far more common, and also does damage while healing.
- Salazzle seems really bad right now. Well, that's a bit of hyperbole, but it never really puts in work against my team. Granted, I have Roserade+Neutralizing Gas Galarian Weezing, so that's probably why, but I don't see it being banworthy just yet.
- When it comes to good Pokemon, the first one that comes to mind is Roserade. Leech Seed is really strong, and it doesn't hurt that it has Spikes to threaten subs anyway. With Natural Cure, it can function as a pseudo-counter to Salazzle, and Grass/Poison makes it hard to wear down. Easily one of my favorite Pokemon of the current metagame.
- Silvally-Steel is another Pokemon that's been really good. It resists Stealth Rock and has Defog/Magic Coat, making it a great tool for hazard Control. With Parting Shot, its also immune to both Trick/Switcheroo AND trapping, making it pretty hard to wear down easily. This means it still has a filler slot it can do whatever with, although you're most likely going to use Roar in the final slot to make it even harder to deal with.
- Gastrodon has given me a lot of success, although that's mostly an indictment on the current metagame. Sticky Hold+Shed Shell makes you immune to both trapping and Trick/Switcheroo, and you get Block to beat non-Gengar Perish Trapping. It also has Pain Split to make it that much harder to wear down, especially when combined with its Rock Resist. As for why you'd use this over Trubbish...I mostly used it because its the most physically bulky Pokemon with access to that combo, giving you a better matchup against Ninjask teams.
- The final Pokemon I want to bring up is Ditto. Ditto was a Pokemon I played with a lot when I was jumping into the metagame, and, in theory, it should be insane. I mean, it gives you infinite PP, for fucks sake! But, in practice, its ability to handle stuff is really hindered by its item slot. It really wants Boots to do its job for longer, but it also desperately wants Shed Shell to be played more aggressively. Basically, its main flaw is that its likely to be trapping weak in the trapping meta, though once trapping gets banned, expect Ditto to be a lot more common.
- Assault Vest
- Limited ways of dealing with it, but similar to what is used to deal with trick+trap. Sticky hold mons are the main way to counter. Should have a back up klutz or sticky had user to deal with simple beam shenanigans. Magic coat can also be used in a pinch. Trubbish has sticky hold, sets up hazards, has pain split, and immunity to toxic. acceptor has baton pass+sub and hazards. Gastrodon has Block and pain split (and niche immunity to sandstorm). You can also use your own klutz user. Galarian-Wezing can come in on non trick in a pinch.
- Substitute
- This is actually helpful due to its risk of loss hit points. It can be dealt with by roar and whirlwind, as well as infiltrator. On Salazzle, it’s one of the few way to counter sub+heavy duty boots Salazzle, as Snorlax is one of the few answers to Salazzle in general, but all it can do is whirlwind back and take a wisp. Galarain-Weezing can also come into Salazzle, but cannot damage sub-Salazzle much in return.
- Heavy Duty Boots
- This is mixed. On one hand, it leaves you weak to trapping since you won’t have Shed Shell, and trapping is everywhere too. But the issue is it can be used on ghosts and Salazzle as it’s better users. Salazzle because it is already immune to both statuses. Ghosts because they cannot be trapped already (unless soak+Block+Toxic/Baton Pass). Only way to damage Heavy-Duty Boots Salazzle then becomes trick before sub (only guarantee on max speed Gothitelle), every other one is a risk since you only get one trick attempt per pokemon mostly. Ghosts become even a bigger issue because they can switch out regardless, leaving them immune to bigger parts of damage, plus pain split makes them very hard to kill.
- Recycle
- I have played a lot of battles and have climbed near the top with a few alts in the first few days. I have had not as much issue with recycle and have rarely seen it. It leaves you weak to both hazards and trapping (unless ghost).
- Salazzle
- Salazzle is like Primal Groudon or Landorous, where it is the glue that helps hold the meta together. Part of what will keep most steel types and poison types in check. If Salazzle line is gone (since it doesn’t matter much what evolution you are except for damage taken by struggle, speed, and pain split). Then steel types and poison types become a lot harder to deal with, and this meta becomes painfully slow, because then only those types can be trapped and killed, tricked scarf or vest, leech seed, burned, hazards, and weather damage. But toxic is the only thing that can limit the turns you stay in, all the others can be dealt with easier.
My big fear with this metagame is if you quickban all, or even any of that stuff, the meta game is going to come to a grinding halt if it is all of it, or risk become broken in exactly one choice of what is left before that becomes banned, and then come to a grinding halt.
How it is now, you have to prepare for all those different things, and what is one of you strengths in beating one, you may be a little weaker in the other. But it feels like it is a strategy game since there are currently enough options to beat stuff, and you have to be very cautious with your hit points (unless pain split).
Maybe best bet is to try one at a time, to see how the meta balances. Only issue with that is it is an OM, so it only has a month. And the user base size is limited, especially for a stall-like, long battle metagame.
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I have played a few games of this on my alts and I have to say this is a disgusting om lol. I think overall the concept isn't bad, but playing this is just a waste of time as a whole, there is little amount of plays to be made and the entirety of a game results on team building. The games are long and boring and there are definitely a few tiering decisions to be made.
I think the main problems of this metagame will remain to be Neutralising Gas and Assault Vest. For reasons other users have mentioned there is just little counter plays and overall just ruins the metagame.
Neutralising Gas would be fine on a Pokemon that couldn't do everything and be so good at it I mean Weezing just is a must have on every team, it cannot get Toxic'd and if you want to burn it the mon can just heal its status. It's an essential Pokemon to have in this metagame because of its versatility in all of the things it can do and Neutralising gas just takes out any type of counter play you could have (besides AV).
AV is just dumb and I don't understand why it hasn't been banned, you can already fill your entire team with trick users but imagine running an entire team of this. Not to mention that Golurk and Swoobat aren't even bad in this meta.
I disagree with this part, I wouldn't want this ability to be banned. Trapping is just as important as Salazzle in this metagame, if you don't have it you can literally just switch your mons around for 1000 turns (i have almost done it, it is not fun, finger hurts). Trapping does not need to go. You do not need 3 mons to run shed shell at all. If you played your game right, it takes about 200turns for one of your mon to die to a trapper and I would think that after that the trapper is pre much useless. The entire meta relies on all of your Pokemon to do at least one different action whether it is cleric, hazards or w/e and usually when one of those mon is gone, the momentum will stop and the game will end faster, trapping is benefitting everyone and actually allows for a bit of thinking.
About the Heavy Duty Boots I will say that I think they should remain for now. Every team already packs one or two hazard removers for back up, the point of this metagame isn't to be a hazard war and without boots this is exactly what will happen. Moves like Roar will be spammed even more and everyone will just die from hazards, not to mention that any type of hazard counter play is already banned. I understand that this metagame was created to be unhealthy but it doesn't need to be worse. I would agree that the main user benefiting from this item is Salazzle but Salazzle will always be Salazzle's best counter even without the boots, trick is fun and stuff and so is trapping but these still are options. Also I don't know what evs you would run in this metagame besides max speed.
I think the main problems of this metagame will remain to be Neutralising Gas and Assault Vest. For reasons other users have mentioned there is just little counter plays and overall just ruins the metagame.
Neutralising Gas would be fine on a Pokemon that couldn't do everything and be so good at it I mean Weezing just is a must have on every team, it cannot get Toxic'd and if you want to burn it the mon can just heal its status. It's an essential Pokemon to have in this metagame because of its versatility in all of the things it can do and Neutralising gas just takes out any type of counter play you could have (besides AV).
AV is just dumb and I don't understand why it hasn't been banned, you can already fill your entire team with trick users but imagine running an entire team of this. Not to mention that Golurk and Swoobat aren't even bad in this meta.
I disagree with this part, I wouldn't want this ability to be banned. Trapping is just as important as Salazzle in this metagame, if you don't have it you can literally just switch your mons around for 1000 turns (i have almost done it, it is not fun, finger hurts). Trapping does not need to go. You do not need 3 mons to run shed shell at all. If you played your game right, it takes about 200turns for one of your mon to die to a trapper and I would think that after that the trapper is pre much useless. The entire meta relies on all of your Pokemon to do at least one different action whether it is cleric, hazards or w/e and usually when one of those mon is gone, the momentum will stop and the game will end faster, trapping is benefitting everyone and actually allows for a bit of thinking.
About the Heavy Duty Boots I will say that I think they should remain for now. Every team already packs one or two hazard removers for back up, the point of this metagame isn't to be a hazard war and without boots this is exactly what will happen. Moves like Roar will be spammed even more and everyone will just die from hazards, not to mention that any type of hazard counter play is already banned. I understand that this metagame was created to be unhealthy but it doesn't need to be worse. I would agree that the main user benefiting from this item is Salazzle but Salazzle will always be Salazzle's best counter even without the boots, trick is fun and stuff and so is trapping but these still are options. Also I don't know what evs you would run in this metagame besides max speed.
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Assault Vest and Neutralizing gas are now banned. Tagging The Immortal for implementation.
Still looking on Substitute on heavy duty boots, so we'll see how the metagame will adapt.
Still looking on Substitute on heavy duty boots, so we'll see how the metagame will adapt.
Played a few games of this with buddies and on some ladder and with Neuro Gas/AV gone, the meta looks in a pretty,,, ok spot. I have a suggestion for something that may want to be considered for banning.
Choice Items. Trick is by far one of the most ludicrously game changing moves in the tier and one good use of it can flip an entire game sideways really fast, but tack Scarf, band, or specs onto this and you have what's a lethality to teams in 1 move, this combined with the Trapper Gang (Goth line, Dug line) means you can force a mon to quickly pp stall itself out quick and remove a gateway member of a team with little available counterplay other than the silvallies and slapping trick onto every mon that gets it, which is terrible on teambuilding.
Other than the ludicrously pressing threat of choice trick, i thought I'd share one of my favorite teams to use so far
Meta looks good with how much work you guys are putting into it! Can't wait to see how it develops.
Choice Items. Trick is by far one of the most ludicrously game changing moves in the tier and one good use of it can flip an entire game sideways really fast, but tack Scarf, band, or specs onto this and you have what's a lethality to teams in 1 move, this combined with the Trapper Gang (Goth line, Dug line) means you can force a mon to quickly pp stall itself out quick and remove a gateway member of a team with little available counterplay other than the silvallies and slapping trick onto every mon that gets it, which is terrible on teambuilding.
Other than the ludicrously pressing threat of choice trick, i thought I'd share one of my favorite teams to use so far
This team abuses the Double Trapper strategy to spread insane chip damage via means of Swagger, Sandstorm, and Toxic, while keeping your own team safe via Safeguard and Heal Bell. Snorlax dons the Sitrus Berry Recycle technique, which allows him to be an incredible curse check, especially when behind a sub alongside his ability to counter Salazzle, your own Salazzle is self explanatory to the team, being able to toxic poison and steel types, with Gengar being the sudden show stopper with ScarfTrick, as well as being able to switch into other trick mons to stop their antics by making it his own.
Meta looks good with how much work you guys are putting into it! Can't wait to see how it develops.
So Aqua Ring and Magic Coat are allowed...?
Yes, they're both allowed. Aqua Ring is easily nullified by forcing a switch or phazing, and Magic Coat, while basically being a buffed Protect in this meta, can still be dodged by stuff like Trick and Perish Song and taken advantage of by setup such as Substitute and Heal Bell (let alone all the havoc you can wreak with Toxic, entry hazards, and phazing if they don't use Magic Coat or they switch their Coater in). Bouncing Encore and Disable with Magic Coat is also shockingly useless.
Oh, cool
I'm finding Magic Room to be a good and underrated move right now. While offensively, it doesn't actually incur entry hazards damage on Heavy-Duty Boots users that often, it's defensively great at deactivating multiple bad Tricked-on items on your team. It even lets the holder absorb Trick/Switcheroo to a certain extent (now that Assault Vest is banned).
Any other underrated moves you guys are finding in this meta?
Any other underrated moves you guys are finding in this meta?
I just realized how useless all attacking and defensive stats are. You are forced to run a + speed nature with full investment in HP and Speed. Literally all of the other stats are useless.
this meta game makes me wish the team builder auto set hp to 248 instead of 252 because 248 is a lot better as you take less burn poison leech and hazard damage as well as can set more subs and double curse from full hp at the cost of 1 hp. This is due to the hp being uneven and most mons at 252 hp are even instead of uneven values and makes a difference when it applies to all your mons .
Defense is useful for struggle and confusion. Attack should almost always be minimum for confusion damage. min speed can be useful for 1v1 perish song death. Hp is same category as defense. Could also be useful to have less because of pain split and leech seed.
The secret is you actually want to minimize Hp investment. Because Pain Split and Leech Seed are prevalent, maxing out your HP means they'll gain more Hp from you while you obtain close to nothing of value in return, because the only controllable thing you're trying to reduce the damage of is incoming Struggle and pretty much nothing else.
The optimal EV spread for pretty much everything in Pacifistmons should be 0/4/252/0-/0/252+, with minimum Hp IVs unless you're looking for a key value for recovery or hazards. This way, you minimize Struggle damage onto you, decrease the potential life gain the opponent may take from you, and not worry about potential speed ties.
Why isn't optimal EVs 0/0/252/0/4/252 with Timid instead? Swagger is used and confusion self-damage is therefore a thing, and that's more common than needing to use Struggle from my experience. If you need to hit certain HP benchmarks, manipulate your IVs a bit above 0 instead (a la Suicide Cup).
Thus, I believe optimal IVs are 0/0/31/x/31/31 unless you need to hit HP benchmarks (or you have a legendary/mythical that needs more perfect IVs).
Thus, I believe optimal IVs are 0/0/31/x/31/31 unless you need to hit HP benchmarks (or you have a legendary/mythical that needs more perfect IVs).
Someone forgot to ban aqua ring :)
I would also like to highlight phantump that can curse, leech seed, burn/toxic, pain split/trick and have natural cure, which is extremely strong. It probably has no counter: salazzle looks weak in comparison
I would also like to highlight phantump that can curse, leech seed, burn/toxic, pain split/trick and have natural cure, which is extremely strong. It probably has no counter: salazzle looks weak in comparison
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Yeah, Assault Vest is banned because it forces Pokemon to attack. I think the reasoning is some the Klutz Trick/Switcheroo interaction locking mons into killing themselves and mostly people actually Baton Passing attack boosts to their own Assault Vest sweeper mons.
Let's talk Sableye.
Prank-Lock (Sableye) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Encore
- Torment
- Pain Split / Mean Look
- Substitute / Mean Look
Hey, remember the whole Assault Vest debacle? Well, now you can spread it around to multiple Pokemon throughout your battle and force nonstop switches onto entry hazards with little risk. Or, you could forgo consistency for Mean Look to force your target into a guaranteed KO off the lock. Fun!
For real though, Sableye, in conjunction with Prankster, might just have one of the grossest movepools I've ever seen in Pacifistmons. It can come in from nowhere and completely disable any Pokemon you go up against. Because of Prankster's priority, it can effectively run Encore, Trick, Disable, Mean Look, Pain Split, status from Toxic or Will-o-Wisp, or mind games with Imprison or Magic Coat to screw over almost anything it locks eyes on. Not only that, but its typing makes it immune to trapping and negates opposing Prankster users itself
Honestly, the best possible way to save yourself from being screwed over by this thing is to bring your own Sableye or Dark type or other countermeasure to shut off Prankster. It may not be a broken Pokemon in the format, and it absolutely can be defeated by smartly outmaneuvering it, but dear god can it destroy any team's momentum on the spot.
Isle of Armor time!
May as well ban Jungle Healing in advance since it heals the same amount as the banned Life Dew.
Corrosive Gas is the only new, notable move we get, and it's a doozy: Knock Off the status move! Salazzle gets yet another option in its movepool, as if it wasn't already good enough. Other mons that get this include Gengar, Weezing(-Galar), Mew, and Vileplume.
Some new mon drops:
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy / Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Defog / Toxic / Sandstorm
If Mew didn't have this absolutely godly movepool, Skarmory could very well have Mew's job. This mon is a one-stop shop for hazard control and phazing, and it's a Steel-type to boot!
Lopunny @ Choice Band
Ability: Klutz
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Switcheroo
- Heal Bell
- Toxic / Substitute
- Encore / Baton Pass
Lopunny gets to be a Klutz cleric, disrupting the hell out of one mon, curing allies, and disrupting or supporting several more mons. 1 HP IV helps it pass Subs more easily.
Klefki @ Leftovers / Sticky Barb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Defog
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Safeguard / Magic Coat / Magic Room / Fairy Lock / Switcheroo
Klefki is a Steel(/Fairy)-type with Prankster and a good movepool. Magic Room is underrated for helping partners who got Tricked/Switcherooed and may make Boots opponents take entry hazard damage some day. Fairy Lock might make opponents take more passive damage.
Comfey @ Leftovers / Sticky Barb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Defog
- Aromatherapy
- Leech Seed
- Toxic / Pain Split / Heal Bell / Safeguard / Magic Coat / Encore / Trick
Comfey gets to do role compression supreme with Defog and Aromatherapy, and it has Natural Cure to boot. Its options for the 4th moveslot go on for miles, including double cleric moves should you be that desperate. 100 base speed is decent to boot.
Zoroark @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers / Sticky Barb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Roar
- Encore
- Toxic
- Copycat / Substitute / Trick
Zoroark is a Dark-type that gets Illusion and a variety of disruptive moves, leading to a lot of misplays from the opponent. Copycat might do cool things such as setting up hazards or Safeguard if the opponent does the same. Boots covers up how much entry hazard damage you actually take, thus making it harder for your opponent to figure out who the Zoroark is.
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Spore
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Swagger / Gastro Acid / Grassy Terrain / Protect
Amoonguss is one of the fastest mons with Spore. I suppose that's good enough. Being a Grass/Poison-type is quite good, though. The 3rd and 4th moveslots are filler, but Gastro Acid is underrated for removing Shadow Tag from Gothitelle, Corrosion from Salazzle switch-ins, Immunity from Snorlax, and Natural Cure from a bunch of things.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Aromatherapy
- Teleport
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock / Heal Bell
Blissey gets Natural Cure, a cleric move, a pivot move, Stealth Rock, and Toxic. It might be outclassed by Celebi, but at least it pivots last and can use double cleric moves.
Oh yeah, ROM has Pacifistmons now, and I gave Abyssal Bot a team there! Have fun with your 50+-turn-long games.
May as well ban Jungle Healing in advance since it heals the same amount as the banned Life Dew.
Corrosive Gas is the only new, notable move we get, and it's a doozy: Knock Off the status move! Salazzle gets yet another option in its movepool, as if it wasn't already good enough. Other mons that get this include Gengar, Weezing(-Galar), Mew, and Vileplume.
Some new mon drops:
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy / Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Defog / Toxic / Sandstorm
If Mew didn't have this absolutely godly movepool, Skarmory could very well have Mew's job. This mon is a one-stop shop for hazard control and phazing, and it's a Steel-type to boot!
Lopunny @ Choice Band
Ability: Klutz
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Switcheroo
- Heal Bell
- Toxic / Substitute
- Encore / Baton Pass
Lopunny gets to be a Klutz cleric, disrupting the hell out of one mon, curing allies, and disrupting or supporting several more mons. 1 HP IV helps it pass Subs more easily.
Klefki @ Leftovers / Sticky Barb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Defog
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Safeguard / Magic Coat / Magic Room / Fairy Lock / Switcheroo
Klefki is a Steel(/Fairy)-type with Prankster and a good movepool. Magic Room is underrated for helping partners who got Tricked/Switcherooed and may make Boots opponents take entry hazard damage some day. Fairy Lock might make opponents take more passive damage.
Comfey @ Leftovers / Sticky Barb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Defog
- Aromatherapy
- Leech Seed
- Toxic / Pain Split / Heal Bell / Safeguard / Magic Coat / Encore / Trick
Comfey gets to do role compression supreme with Defog and Aromatherapy, and it has Natural Cure to boot. Its options for the 4th moveslot go on for miles, including double cleric moves should you be that desperate. 100 base speed is decent to boot.
Zoroark @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Leftovers / Sticky Barb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Roar
- Encore
- Toxic
- Copycat / Substitute / Trick
Zoroark is a Dark-type that gets Illusion and a variety of disruptive moves, leading to a lot of misplays from the opponent. Copycat might do cool things such as setting up hazards or Safeguard if the opponent does the same. Boots covers up how much entry hazard damage you actually take, thus making it harder for your opponent to figure out who the Zoroark is.
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Spore
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Swagger / Gastro Acid / Grassy Terrain / Protect
Amoonguss is one of the fastest mons with Spore. I suppose that's good enough. Being a Grass/Poison-type is quite good, though. The 3rd and 4th moveslots are filler, but Gastro Acid is underrated for removing Shadow Tag from Gothitelle, Corrosion from Salazzle switch-ins, Immunity from Snorlax, and Natural Cure from a bunch of things.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 SpA
- Aromatherapy
- Teleport
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock / Heal Bell
Blissey gets Natural Cure, a cleric move, a pivot move, Stealth Rock, and Toxic. It might be outclassed by Celebi, but at least it pivots last and can use double cleric moves.
Oh yeah, ROM has Pacifistmons now, and I gave Abyssal Bot a team there! Have fun with your 50+-turn-long games.