Palafin Suspect -- Qualified Discussion

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Zapsuki said:
https://pokepast.es/c1922f7712239f4e 45 W - 10 L

I have battled against Palafin's Choice Band set and Bulk Up set, and neither set seems broken. I do have to be fair and acknowledge that my suspect test team has 5 Palafin checks. I did not really prepare for Palafin besides increasing Garchomp's speed from 325 to 330. The loss of momentum on Palafin's first turn can be minimized with solid pivots. I only have checks, not counters, so Palafin can still easily trade. My experience suspect laddering says unban, but the team adds too much bias. I'm not sure yet; I can swayed either way.
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Posting again to say I agree with all of this, and for that reason I’m leaning unban. Palafin did not seem obviously broken or unhealthy to me, so I think it deserves more time in the tier. Monitor the meta and if Palafin becomes clearly broken in a couple months suspect it again.

A suspect test inherently displays an altered perspective of the tier. It is very hard to see Palafin’s effect when every team is preparing for it, and it’s likely there are adaptations yet to be found both for Palafin and it’s counterplay.

That being said, I don’t think it would really add anything to the tier, so ultimately I am fine with either outcome. I am generally enjoying the meta right now, and laddering for reqs felt like a breath of fresh air compared to the zard-y infested natdex I’ve been playing the most.
 
My opinion on Palafin.

Its cost-benefit of losing a turn by switching is highly compensated by the massive stat gain.
Raw power and bulk setup potential put the tier on alert with yet another among so many threats that we already need to prepare for.
We already have strong revenge killers like Dragonite, Rillaboom, Raging Bolt and Kingambit. And even non-OU things like Scizor.
We already have bulk setups like Dragonite, Raging Bolt and Zamazenta.
We already have Rain abusers.

Palafin would just be another unnecessary and very strong addition that we would need to worry about from the teambuild until the point of discovering the set and it being too late to get a counterplay.
Palafin would also steer the metagame towards a trend of structures with two or even more resistances to Water and would take away the little balance we have with this volatile metagame.

That's why I'm voting Keep Ubers / Do Not Unban.
 
SupaGmoney said:
I think I can speak for everyone when I say that a meta with more webs, Raging Bolt, Zapdos, Kyurem, and Ogerpon is not one that we should be striving for, which unfortunately will be the case should Palafin be unbanned.
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Not everyone. A meta with more webs + kyurem is interesting, and offense is already finding ways to adapt to and integrate Palafin even though it's only been two weeks. In any case I think it needs more time to be tested, I've seen some others say this and I completely agree.
 
The ladder period for Palafin's retest has concluded. You may now cast your vote here if you qualified!

!!!PLEASE NOTE!!! The options are Unban Palafin and Do Not Unban Palafin -- read and select carefully as it is not the conventional "Ban" and "Do not ban" options from a normal suspect test.

Thank you to all of the following users for participating in our process and I will now be closing the discussion threads. Consider this your reminder and request to vote. PM me with questions -- thanks.

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Last edited:
32 users who have earned voting requisites have not voted yet, but their votes will not affect the outcome of the vote.

Eligible Voters: 135
Votes: 103

:Palafin: Palafin :Palafin-Hero:
Unban: 25
Do Not Unban: 78
Unban %: 24.27%

It is now impossible for Palafin to be unbanned regardless of the remaining 32 voters. 50%+1 pro-unban majority is required for an unban, and the outcome will not be reached by more votes. 76% of votes thus far are in favor of Palafin remaining Uber, leading us to this verdict.

Thus, Palafin remains banned from SV OU. Tagging Marty and dhelmise to make the change on PS when they have the time; thanks!

Thank you to all who have voted. The vote will remain open for the remainder of the weekend (GMT-5) to allow the remaining people with voting requirements to vote here and have their vote count towards the Tiering Contributor badge if they so please. I will close voting at this time.

Votes will be made public at the formal deadline or whenever all 135 voters have voted, whichever comes first. We will likely change language for restest to either make it "Palafin OU" / "Palafin Uber" or add parentheis for people who do not speak English as a first language for future retests. It is understandable that "Unban" and "Do Not Unban" is not as linear as the typical "Ban" and "Do Not Ban" from a normal suspect test after all. While I provided a disclaimer in my first post when I tagged voters here, a few people wanted further clarification and Smogon should always be easily accessible for everyone regardless of their language background. I really appreciate community feedback on this!
 
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